I can throw in a free bottle of.. something from my stash
in exchange of some life in here
Ok I read everything there was to read about complex vs simple carbs..
And the result is: everything and the opposite has been said, and yet I cannot for the life of me
find a reliable, clear and simply explained source stating a solid, final word on this.
The reason because I'm interested is because every single time I eat carbs (complex, I don't do
simple *ever*) I feel like hell, the next day I look like sh#t and I'm weak as f#ck..
Awesome isn't it?
This happens only on the day I attempt my refeed, which is once a week on my heaviest wo day
I'm in a very low carb diet all year round (25/30gr a day), BF 4/5%
So, more than one person suggested me to go with simple carbs for the refeed
but I need to bring something up: years ago I was using cereals (like breakfast cereals)
pwo, decent amount of sugar in them and no fat, when I swapped 'em with oats
it made a big as# difference, I started to lean out even more and fill muscles up better etc..
Overall, I just started to look much better.
Then my diet changed, I didn't do pwo carbs (or protein either) anymore started to do warrior diet/IF
and again, things improved.
Now at this BF and ridiculously intense training sessions I tried to start the refeed protocol
once a week several times, I tired any kind of "clean" complex carb and the result is always
the same, stated above.
Rice, potatoes, oats, etc.. even just 40/50gr and everything goes down the hill.
Now, before f#cking up another week/refeed, I decided to ask about this.
What difference is gonna make to use simple carbs (as opposed to complex) for the refeed in terms of bodycomp?
Because from my experience - from the pwo experience I mentioned above - it does make
a hell of a difference in favor of complex carbs, but I don't know for sure
because a lot changed since then, my training, my diet etc.. so I'm not 100% sure that's
what made the difference at the time.
Anyway, any help appreciated
I can throw in a free bottle of.. something from my stash
in exchange of some life in here
So you stated you had much better success with the way you FELT and LOOKED loading with complex, lower glycemic carbs?
The only "benefit" to loading on simple carbs for refeeds is to initiate a heightened insulin response, which will then signal leptin, T4-T3 conversion, shuttle glucose into muscle cells faster than complex carbs. You will also be able to EAT MORE carbs as there wont be any fiber slowing gastric emptying.
I mean realistically, if you are depleted as hell, and shove in the "RIGHT" amount of carbohydrates, complex or simple it really should not matter as eventually glycogen, and all signaling hormones will get to where they need to be.
If you overdo the simple carbohydrate refeeds and give your body more than it needed, then of course you will over saturate muscle/liver glycogen and retain water and spill into fat cells.....
Buy IronMagLabs products and SAVE with matt15
Buy BlackStone Labs product and SAVE with matt10
what I meant is while i've been in low carbs for a long time
up until a couple of years ago I was still getting in pwo carbs
- in form of low fat breakfast cereals - about 35gr,
then I switched those 30gr pwo cereals with oats and I FELT the same (at that
time I was feeling ok with both cereals or oats) but I started to LOOK much better.
(my total daily carb intake was 60gr)
Then I changed my diet and plans and cut those 30gr of carbs pwo
and I've been going with 30gr total carb intake for the last couple of years
- two whole wheat bread slices -
Lately I wanted to incorporate the carb-up/refeed and all the problems started
but I've been always trying that with complex carbs,
now I've been suggested to go with simple carbs for the refeed but honestly
I'm a bit scared of that.
for me cutting all the simple carbs (even if just 30gr!) made a difference at the time
So what are you saying is let's assume I go for 2 x bodyweight gr of carbs
on my refeed: if I use simple or complex that will not make a difference in body composition?
In the end that's where I get confused and I'd like to know
I (would) do my refeed between the two heaviest wo days, chest and deadlift/squats
so it would start on chest day (pwo), if this is of any help
You are a rare case man. You will have to play around a bit to find what works for you. I have been refeeding for YEARS and I have my food choices down, to what I fee makes me look, and feel best. I consume a lot of simple carbs.
Check out SKIPS longevity DVD. Specifically the seminar chapters and the SKIPLOADING addendum. He starts to talk about it about 15:00 in to the first seminar chapter. It will give you some ideas to play with.
I more or less follow his guidelines, and find it works well for me, and I have played around with many different protocols over the years. There are quite a few differering opinions on the subject.
that's why I'm trying to gather as many info as I can so not to completely
go berzerk while trying and most important, not to mess up my actual condition
and yet, I couldn't find any "official" statement/study about it.
I guess it depends, people react differently to different things/protocols,
but at least knowing what the theory would be on that could be a start.
I have been using 2Glycobol with my carbs. Morning right after workout out with around 25/50 complex and 25-75 simple. 2 gylcobol and lunch 50-70complex and several simple... I really like the feeling I am getting and i have stayed same weight and add some muscle. I am not by anymeans a body builder or powerlifter as of yet I am still in the weening stages but i have had some good results so far... I was getting my proteins from only food for a while. I am switching it up and adding lots more carbs and hopefully will be stacking som ALA and possibly agmatine.
I have and I am experimenting/using at the moment 3 different GDAs: Slin Sane, Glycobol, Recompadrol.
Trust me I know everything about GDAs, but in a recent 3d on the Dr Houser forum we agreed not to use GDAs
on refeed day.
Ohhh I am new to this site and just grazing(sp?).... for as much info as I can digest
Ok I kept researching and unfortunately for me, it seems that simple carbs ain't the same as complex
even for a refeed, McDonald advice is to keep sugar under 50gr, seems to work for many other as well.
Most likely for people with an even slightly higher BF than me it won't make a difference,
for me it does right away..
Refeed ain't happening for me, my refeed would be hell and I can't do hardcore diet 6 days a week
and then have an even less satisfying food day as refeed
I can try with fats and protein but again just for the sake of it but the whole refeed purpose
seems to go down the hill without carbs.
Dammit, I was starting to believe I could've gorged myself with cereals and get away with it
Science is only applicable so far. Think of this as the equivalent of only testing sedentary individuals with exercise protocols.
You are leaner than almost anyone on here and they are likely to be in contest mode. The reason you haven't come up with an answer is because there is nothing that has the consensus of being definitive.
A lot of what you are doing is against science, you workout longer than recommended for keeping the testosterone:cortisol ratio in check, you have a diet which is so perpetually low in carbs it has been linked with low testosterone levels. A lot of what you are doing is not what science considers optimal or healthy.
You are going to have to experiment. Maybe your issues are with your GI tract, I have had GI issues and digesting many sources of complex carbs makes me feel awful whereas simple carbs I don't notice.
Until you find other people who are doing the same protocols as you and pushing things to the extremes you are not going to find someone that has your answer, in your situation.
Sign up for the PES Insider for exclusive flash sales and brand new product launches.
We happened to indirectly talk about this before, and yeah we do agree on pretty much every point here.
Experimenting is so mentally taxing exactly because probably there's one if i'm lucky two combinations
that will actually work on me, being able to spot it/them ain't gonna be easy
As for the GI tract I got it checked, everything seems surprisingly fine,
my uneducated guess is I developed some sort of intolerance to most carbs
due to the diet, my system probably just doesn't know what the heck to do with those..
good luck with that
I read a lot on this too but when it comes down to it simple carbs r inferior to the complex. Eat complex whenever possible simple when u have to.
lol thanks guys, deep inside I knew that
oh well.. I wish I was a bulker right now
You can easily go on bulk.. Just the image deal. I'm not even nearly as lean as you but I've been a fatty all my life and I'm afraid of going back.. Just fear. But I think I'm gonna need to bulk soon.Originally Posted by AutoKal47
Again, Lyle is ONE opinion of many opinions. There are some people like Scott Abel who have their clients eat whatever they want, even if it is Big Macs and doughnuts. Some keep fat low, like Skip etc. Pick one, try it, and see what you feel works best.
Reading about it isn't going to tell you anything, especially since you aren't the norm.
Did you watch the videos I linked? If so did you take nothing away from that? He explains about doing exactly what you are wanting to do.
At your bf , and level of depletion it is going to be hard to do any damage. You could literally eat 20k calories of ****, and be fine, as long as your other 6days are accounting for it.
I with o/p I started a thread a few minutes ago over at bb dot com because I wanted to find a low GI carb to eat with my fish instead of sweet potato, I came here because they told me it didn't matter which potatos I eat. I was going to come here and make a thread then I saw this post.
I usually stuck to complex carbs because longer engery and I thought it reverted to sugar less often vs. Fast carbs.
I'm only talking potatos Herr for me....
They basically said don't worry about what potatos to eat.
I also know when cutting cals carbs are the first to be cut which could make some sense but if someone can shed some light I'd appreciate it.
Does it really matter what kind of potatos I eat?