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  1. plumbaman
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    fake sweetners


    Simple question, splenda or trivia

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    I think you mean truvia. Anyways, truvia gives me intestinal cramps from HELL. Splenda works well though.
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    Yeah truvia,damn spell check. I Like it in oatmeal and black coffee.
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    WHat bout stevia?
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    I think it pretty much comes down to what you like best. They all have brotastic rumors of causing cancer, strokes, growing a third eye, etc. But I have yet to read a study that looks like it could be applied real world usage. Personally, I like Splenda the best. But im a sweet and low kinda guy cause im cheap.
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    Since buying stevia never going back to splenda, it's even granulated which for some reason just seems better
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stri8ted25 View Post
    WHat bout stevia?
    same thing. Truvia=Stevia.

    Splenda and many other artificial sweeteners have actually been shown to elicit an insulin response in the absence of carbohydrates...I believe the only one that did not do that was Stevia. Aspartame is certainly garbage and I would stay away from that.....10% of it is Wood Alcohol.
    I would always try to stick with Stevia.
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    A lot of foods elicit an insulin response. Even protein powder will elicit an unsulin response. What difference does the insulin response make?
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    Quote Originally Posted by AustrianOakJr View Post
    A lot of foods elicit an insulin response. Even protein powder will elicit an unsulin response. What difference does the insulin response make?
    Well people stay away from regular soda because they think the sugar will cause an insulin spike and the sugar will be stored as fat...I was just pointing out that the same is true for most artificial sweeteners.
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    Gotcha. The insulin response to artificial sweetener is minimal at best (probably non-existent). But in order for anything to be stored as fat, it has to contain calories. An insulin response cannot trigger storage if there is nothing to store. Insulin is really only a very small piece of the fat storage equation as well. Really not worth concerning yourself over.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AustrianOakJr View Post
    Gotcha. The insulin response to artificial sweetener is minimal at best (probably non-existent). But in order for anything to be stored as fat, it has to contain calories. An insulin response cannot trigger storage if there is nothing to store. Insulin is really only a very small piece of the fat storage equation as well. Really not worth concerning yourself over.
    Any articles or evidence on that?

    http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/704432
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2887500
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    Im not sure which part of my post you are referring to. I dont think we need a reference for the fact that unless there are calories to be stored, then fat storage doesnt take place. That seems like common sense. And the calories in those sweeteners are minimal at best. If you are drinking a diet coke and insulin is somehow triggered, what does it matter? There are no calories in the coke to be stored.

    Even when looking at a mixed meal where carbs, fats, protein, etc is present ......insulin is obviously going to be secreted regardless of the sweetener you use on the meal. And so what if it is? Our body is constantly storing and releasing fat. Trying to control insulin secretion is a futile attempt. If insulin is high at this moment.......it will be low in an hour from now. What matters most is the net storage of bodyfat and that comes down to calorie intake vs calorie expenditure. If you are counting calories as a bodybuilder would, concerning yourself with insulin is like worrying about whether you should use a chrome bar or gun-metal finish when doing squats. Its just irrelevant.
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    A diet based on maintaining insulin control is FAR from irrelevant
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    A diet based on maintaining insulin control is FAR from irrelevant
    Insulin control is important if you eat by "feel" because insulin secretion has a lot to do with satiety. Most bodybuilders count their calories and macros and in that case, insulin secretion is a very minor issue.

    On a bulk.....I might tend to agree with you more. But when you are in a calorie-controlled deficit, insulin is a very small player.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AustrianOakJr View Post

    ..But when you are in a calorie-controlled deficit, insulin is a very small player.
    That's interesting. Could you tell something more about it? (legit question)
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    Quote Originally Posted by AustrianOakJr View Post
    Insulin control is important if you eat by "feel" because insulin secretion has a lot to do with satiety. Most bodybuilders count their calories and macros and in that case, insulin secretion is a very minor issue.

    On a bulk.....I might tend to agree with you more. But when you are in a calorie-controlled deficit, insulin is a very small player.
    This goes against everything I have ever heard about being in a caloried controlled deficit and dieting. I have always heard levels of stable low insulin is the best environment for fat loss.
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    Just found this which seem interesting,
    it actually says that aspartame has no effects on insulin, blood glucose, GH and cortisol
    whether it's mixed with CHO or not

    Same source on Stevia

    I
    personally use Erythritol/Inulin (glycemic index 0 and no effects on insulin or blood sugar,
    also no stomach discomfort with this, the only sugar alcohol that doesn't do that)
    to cook and make home made protein bars and such, and Z-sweet as sugar substitute.
    This one too has zero glycemic load, no effects on insulin and zero cals
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    minus truvia, I would just rather stay away from most artifical sweeteners regardless of their little effects on insulin or damage on the body (aspartame). It would be like someone putting a little battery acid in my drink and saying ...its in such small amounts you wont taste it...it wont do anything to you. Would I drink it? No. haha just my personal preference. These sweeteners really haven't been out long enough to get really good studies on.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AutoKal47 View Post
    That's interesting. Could you tell something more about it? (legit question)
    Quote Originally Posted by fightbackhxc View Post
    This goes against everything I have ever heard about being in a caloried controlled deficit and dieting. I have always heard levels of stable low insulin is the best environment for fat loss.
    Well, I hate to be bro-science buster, but it just aint true. When I first began bodybuilding I ate very consciously considering GI of the carb sources. I lost fat and had decent success. Following my first competitive season I started to associate with some guys that put the emphasis on food quantity and macro ratios......and COUNTING everything to the gram. And although some importance was placed on the micronutritional side of the equation, food source was the lesser issue for these guys. Glycemic index was not even on the radar and I watched the conditioning of these guys while they dieted on Pop tarts, protein cakes, frozen yogurt, etc. And they got RIDICULOUSLY shredded. Like striations so deeply cut in their ass, you can see them through their shorts. No joke. So....i decided to try paying closer attention to the details of weighing, tracking and measuring food and less attention to food source. I regularly diet on all kinds of "taboo, insulin-spiking" foods now and I found it doesnt make a lick of difference.

    Why? First off.....insulin is a highly anabolic hormone. And the more time we can spend with insulin levels high while still losing weight, the better. Yes, i know this is absolutely contrary to what most people believe about dieting. But think about the fact that many guys purposefully TRY to spike insulin post workout. Why? Insulin is anabolic. The thing is that if I eat a mound of peeled white potatoes now (very high GI) my insulin spikes faster and further than if I had a bowl of oatmeal. But the flip side to the white potato is that the insulin comes down much faster and im back to a very low level before the oats would reach that baseline. So the spike of the low GI oatmeal is lesser but its also longer and more linear.

    All that to say it "all comes out in the wash". Whether I allow insulin to spike and fall or allow it to remain more steady throughout the day, im still burning the same amount of fat. How much fat you burn depends on the difference between your calorie intake and calories burned. Thats it. Very simple. To further add to the arguement, as you lean out your body adapts and will moderate its blood sugar levels quite well. So, carb choice is even less of a factor as your insulin sensitivity improves. You take a bodybuilder at stage-ready lean-ness and blood sugar levels do not spike and fall to any great degree. They are pretty steady throughout the day regardless of food choice.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fightbackhxc View Post
    minus truvia, I would just rather stay away from most artifical sweeteners regardless of their little effects on insulin or damage on the body (aspartame). It would be like someone putting a little battery acid in my drink and saying ...its in such small amounts you wont taste it...it wont do anything to you. Would I drink it? No. haha just my personal preference. These sweeteners really haven't been out long enough to get really good studies on.
    The difference is that battery acid is very toxic even in small dosages. There arent any legit studies (to my knowledge) showing any negatives to artificial sweeteners. Every study I have read has dosages given to rats that would be equivalent to eating a 5 gallon bucket of aspartame every day. Even water is toxic at a certain level. IMOP, art sweeteners are a great alternative to sugar when counting calories. Straight sugar is such a waste of calories when leaning out......I cant bring myself to use it while dieting. Not to say there is anything wrong with dieting on straight sugar.....its just not my preference.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AustrianOakJr View Post
    Well, I hate to be bro-science buster, but it just aint true. When I first began bodybuilding I ate very consciously considering GI of the carb sources. I lost fat and had decent success. Following my first competitive season I started to associate with some guys that put the emphasis on food quantity and macro ratios......and COUNTING everything to the gram. And although some importance was placed on the micronutritional side of the equation, food source was the lesser issue for these guys. Glycemic index was not even on the radar and I watched the conditioning of these guys while they dieted on Pop tarts, protein cakes, frozen yogurt, etc. And they got RIDICULOUSLY shredded. Like striations so deeply cut in their ass, you can see them through their shorts. No joke. So....i decided to try paying closer attention to the details of weighing, tracking and measuring food and less attention to food source. I regularly diet on all kinds of "taboo, insulin-spiking" foods now and I found it doesnt make a lick of difference.

    Why? First off.....insulin is a highly anabolic hormone. And the more time we can spend with insulin levels high while still losing weight, the better. Yes, i know this is absolutely contrary to what most people believe about dieting. But think about the fact that many guys purposefully TRY to spike insulin post workout. Why? Insulin is anabolic. The thing is that if I eat a mound of peeled white potatoes now (very high GI) my insulin spikes faster and further than if I had a bowl of oatmeal. But the flip side to the white potato is that the insulin comes down much faster and im back to a very low level before the oats would reach that baseline. So the spike of the low GI oatmeal is lesser but its also longer and more linear.

    All that to say it "all comes out in the wash". Whether I allow insulin to spike and fall or allow it to remain more steady throughout the day, im still burning the same amount of fat. How much fat you burn depends on the difference between your calorie intake and calories burned. Thats it. Very simple. To further add to the arguement, as you lean out your body adapts and will moderate its blood sugar levels quite well. So, carb choice is even less of a factor as your insulin sensitivity improves. You take a bodybuilder at stage-ready lean-ness and blood sugar levels do not spike and fall to any great degree. They are pretty steady throughout the day regardless of food choice.
    Except that insulin also inhibits fat oxidation. One reason LeanGains program is so effective is by maximizing the time the body is spent in fat oxidation and then eating the same amount of daily calories that we are aiming for in what Markus coined his anabolic feeding window.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingjameskjf View Post
    Except that insulin also inhibits fat oxidation. One reason LeanGains program is so effective is by maximizing the time the body is spent in fat oxidation and then eating the same amount of daily calories that we are aiming for in what Markus coined his anabolic feeding window.
    Im going to try and say this without coming off like a jerk. Because thats not my intention. Go back and read my post. I explained why a "spike" in insulin is irrelevant in a caloric deficit. Insulin is only one small piece of the incredibly complicated puzzle. Everyone puts such an emphasis on insulin. And they put the emphasis on only one part of insulin's role in bodily function.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AustrianOakJr View Post
    Im going to try and say this without coming off like a jerk. Because thats not my intention. Go back and read my post. I explained why a "spike" in insulin is irrelevant in a caloric deficit. Insulin is only one small piece of the incredibly complicated puzzle. Everyone puts such an emphasis on insulin. And they put the emphasis on only one part of insulin's role in bodily function.
    Certainly and I agree that there is much more to dieting then focusing on insulin and its role in the body, however, it does have an effect on fat oxidation which has been proven by studies and therefore cannot be considered as completely irrelevant. I don't think you need your diet to revolve around it though, which is what I think you're also saying. There are many factors that go into creating a more successful diet especially for contest prep. It isn't a single variable that defines all of your success but a combination of them all.
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    Xylitol or stevia. Xylitol is said to actually have protective qualities on your teeth, but you can't bake cookies with it which makes me very ..very sad.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessep76 View Post
    Xylitol or stevia. Xylitol is said to actually have protective qualities on your teeth, but you can't bake cookies with it which makes me very ..very sad.
    Really, inulin is much better, and you can cook with it
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    Quote Originally Posted by AutoKal47 View Post
    Really, inulin is much better, and you can cook with it
    While the potential for improved intestinal bacteria sounds like a benefit, I'm gassy enough as it is. One cauliflower floret and I'm melting the paint on my walls.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingjameskjf View Post
    Certainly and I agree that there is much more to dieting then focusing on insulin and its role in the body, however, it does have an effect on fat oxidation which has been proven by studies and therefore cannot be considered as completely irrelevant. I don't think you need your diet to revolve around it though, which is what I think you're also saying. There are many factors that go into creating a more successful diet especially for contest prep. It isn't a single variable that defines all of your success but a combination of them all.
    Agreed. ACtually, I think insulin control is much more important whilst bulking. When our bodies are walking that line between maintenance and overage, I think a steady control over insulin might keep the fire burning in our favor. While in a calorie deficit, I think its such a minor issue that its not even worth looking at. From my understanding of the role of insulin, personal experience and the experience of other elite level competitors, food selection and insulin control is just not worth spending the time over-analyzing. I get the same results dieting on oatmeal vs. low fat ice cream. The macros are the same.....I perform and look the same.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AustrianOakJr View Post
    Agreed. ACtually, I think insulin control is much more important whilst bulking. When our bodies are walking that line between maintenance and overage, I think a steady control over insulin might keep the fire burning in our favor. While in a calorie deficit, I think its such a minor issue that its not even worth looking at. From my understanding of the role of insulin, personal experience and the experience of other elite level competitors, food selection and insulin control is just not worth spending the time over-analyzing. I get the same results dieting on oatmeal vs. low fat ice cream. The macros are the same.....I perform and look the same.
    Yep. Hitting your optimal macros in the caloric range is definitely the most important of all factors. I tried a much looser food selection diet while still hitting my same macros and without exceeding my predetermined caloric range and found the results to be on par, which really helps make dieting easier.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingjameskjf View Post
    Yep. Hitting your optimal macros in the caloric range is definitely the most important of all factors. I tried a much looser food selection diet while still hitting my same macros and without exceeding my predetermined caloric range and found the results to be on par, which really helps make dieting easier.
    Very interesting how we all work differently.
    I use to go for simple carbs pwo - I took in so lil carbs anyway
    and because of the line of thought that you need fast cho pwo -
    but even with that lil amount when I switched to oats instead I got def
    leaner. I hated it, because I use to really enjoy my pwo shaker when it was tasting good..
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