The Great Cannabis Debate

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  1. purebred
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    The Great Cannabis Debate


    The title should be self-explanatory and fairly suggestive. With so much controversy surrounding the pot issue, I wanted to get a feel for what you folks here at AM believe and think. I want this thread to remain as factual, scientific and non-bias as possible. None of that "I think weed is bad because my friend does it and he's a loser" or "Well, I don't believe in smoking weed because it's bad for you..my mommy told me so!"

    #1: You don't have to believe in something for it to exist. Your approval never has been/will be/is required for the world to keep turning
    #2: Let's get some originality going in this thread. Most threads like this turn to crap because some knucklehead gets all emotional about the way someone "typed" something that appeared to be disrespectful. It's the internet, folks. Leave your problems at the door.

    None of us our scientists but it doesn't mean we have to judge anyone for a personal choice they make. There should be no low-blows, name-calling and any foul play on here. I want all participants in this thread to do their utmost in presenting the FACTS with references. No "facts" w/o references. That's called opinion.

    Now that we have that little disclaimer out of the way: What is the big deal with pot? Anyone seen "The Union: The Business Behind Getting High"? Great eye-opener for the topic of cannabis/hemp.

    What are the documented negative effects of occasional use of marijuana?
    (We're not talking about someone who smokes 10 grams every day, alone BTW)

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    Well, as far as the documented evidence goes, it depends on what studies you want to use. Back in the days of "Reefer Madness" the studies that were performed were incredibly biased against marijuana, and that bias showed in the results. The opposite is true in the recent studies. The truth lies somewhere in the middle, but I doubt you'll find a study that will tell you that truth, due to the fact that many of these studies are either funded by government groups or pharmaceutical companies, so inherent bias is present. So I just believe what I want to believe and keep on truckin! If you heard it was bad for you, would you stop?
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    no ones opinion of it matters. no adult should be told what they can and cant do with there body...

    but since this discussion is based on opinions, I'm all for it. if you look at independent, unbiased studies, which there have been many of, there is obvious medicinal value. not to mention the millions of user reviews, many who's lives benefit.


    as far as training goes, bulking is much better with a little help from mj
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    All I can say is, if tobacco and alcohol are still able to get away with being legal, then marijuana should.
  5. purebred
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    Quote Originally Posted by ru85 View Post
    no ones opinion of it matters. no adult should be told what they can and cant do with there body...

    but since this discussion is based on opinions, I'm all for it. if you look at independent, unbiased studies, which there have been many of, there is obvious medicinal value. not to mention the millions of user reviews, many who's lives benefit.


    as far as training goes, bulking is much better with a little help from mj
    Thank you for your contribution. However, contrary to a portion of your post, this thread is NOT about opinion that was clearly stated in my initial post. Yes, there has been a lot of fact-twisting over the yrs by the government, pharmaceutical corporations and the media but they were simply exaggerating or purposely misinterpreting the clinical results. Some experiments were intentionally constructed with a flawed design to create the desired results. It's not very nice to have monkeys ingest a lifetime's worth of cannabis via gasmask in 15 min and then parade the results as an indicator of how lethal pot is. 15 minutes w/o oxygen will do brain damage and no one can consume the amount of cannabis used in some of these experiments in a normal 24-hour period. The preceding was an actual study conducted which is discussed in the documentary mentioned below.

    Everyone should be required to watch "The Union: The Business Behind Getting High" prior to posting on here lol. Netflix or Google! Go watch it!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ya Boy A View Post
    All I can say is, if tobacco and alcohol are still able to get away with being legal, then marijuana should.
    Bingo.
    Psalm 34:10 - "The lions may grow weak and hungry, but those who seek the Lord lack no good thing."
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    Quote Originally Posted by ru85 View Post
    no ones opinion of it matters. no adult should be told what they can and cant do with there body...

    but since this discussion is based on opinions, I'm all for it. if you look at independent, unbiased studies, which there have been many of, there is obvious medicinal value. not to mention the millions of user reviews, many who's lives benefit.


    as far as training goes, bulking is much better with a little help from mj
    I agree with the statement in bold.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ya Boy A View Post
    All I can say is, if tobacco and alcohol are still able to get away with being legal, then marijuana should.
    I agree with this as well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ya Boy A View Post
    All I can say is, if tobacco and alcohol are still able to get away with being legal, then marijuana should.
    This. Hell, even the presribed crap you get is worse than marijuana. Look at what Oxy is doing and its a major issue here in Florida. Marijuana should be legalized and taxed!
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    all i see is opinions. this might fuel some thought
    http://www.independent.co.uk/life-st...ts-510869.html
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    The history

    The history of the plant includes some very surprising and enlightening facts about its original uses.

    Also known as cannabis, was once very much legal. What also may strike you as odd, Is that it was also one of the largest agricultural crops in the world, including the U.S.

    Cannabis can also be hemp, which does not produce a high when smoked. Hemp is the most durable, natural, soft fiber on the face of the earth.

    Up until 1883, Cannabis was the largest agricultural crop in the world. It had thousands of uses, and products. The majority of fabrics, lighting oil, medicines, paper, and fiber came from hemp.

    The first marijuana law to be passed in the states, in 1619, was a law ordering farmers to grow hemp.

    Benjamin Franklin used it to start his first paper mills.

    The first two copies of the declaration of independence were written on hemp paper.

    Up until the 1800s, most of the textiles in the states were made with hemp. 50% of the medicine marketed within the last half of the 19th century was made from Cannabis. Even Queen Victoria used the resin extracts from hemp to alleviate her menstrual cramps.

    A textile is a flexible material consisting of a network of natural or artificial fibres, in case you didn't know.

    Although, the funny thing about industrial hemp was, you could not get high from it, yet it was lumped in with the following which also made a little sense:

    Reefer Madness. In the early 20th century, yellow journalism had surfaced, and depicted blacks and Mexicans as frenzied beasts who would smoke marijuana, play devils music, and heap disrespect and viciousness on the readership - a majority of which were white.
    Some offenses included looking at a white woman twice, laughing at a white person, or even stepping on white mans' shadows.

    This ended up leading to a law in 1937 called the Marijuana Tax Act: a tax stamp that would not only include marijuana, but also hemp and Cannabis medicines.

    It's speculated that hemp's potential for an abundance of new products was going to be in direct competition with other sources. This, added with the Reefer Madness, led to the eventual downfall of all forms of Cannabis.

    Popular Mechanics Magazine had actually prepared an article entitled New Billion-Dollar Crop. Hemp was boasted being able to produce more than 5,000 textile products from its thread-like fiber and more than 25,000 products from its cellulose, ranging from dynamite to cellophane, which is a transparent paper-like product that is impervious to moisture (used to wrap candy, cigarettes, etc.).

    Its superiority as a source for paper was also becoming known, especially with the development of hemp-processing equipment.

    The new marijuana tax act was fine, except for one thing - if you wanted to grow hemp, you needed to buy a stamp, but the government was not giving any out, to anybody.

    And so, in effect, all forms of cannabis became illegal. The first conviction encompassed a man with two joins, equaling four years in jail.

    Things pretty much stayed that way until world war two, when the government decided that hemp, once again, was a good thing, and even produced a video called Hemp for Victory. But by the time the war was over, hemp again, became bad.

    In 1948, when the marijuana law once again came into question, congress recognized marijuana was made illegal for the wrong reason - it didn't make people violent at all, it made them pacifists. The communists would use it to weaken America's will to fight. Congress now voted to keep marijuana illegal for the exact opposite reason they had outlawed it in the first place.

    And all through the years, report after report, commissioned by everybody, from the major of new york in 1944, to the president of the united states in 1972, has come back with a view that marijuana should have no illegal penalties attached to it.
    Yet, marijuana remains as illegal today as it did 70 years ago...

    Marijuana has become big business, both in Canada and in the United States. But why has it become such a big business?

    In British Columbia alone it's speculated that the illegal marijuana trade brings in upwards of seven billion dollars annually. Up to 85% of that product heads south, to the states.

    Having become an international issue, when did the lines blur?
    How does a massive underground market like this survive while remaining illegal?
    Why is marijuana illegal in the first place?
    And if prohibition is meant to protect us, does it work?


    Senator Larry Campbell, Mayor of Vancouver, 2002-2005, Former member of RCMP drug Squad: "If prohibition worked, if you could just wave a magic wand and say this is gone away, I'd be all over it. The fact of the matter is that prohibition has never worked."

    Jack A. Cole, Director of L.E.A.P., Former undercover narcotics agent - 14 years: "You know we've been here before. You remember the first prohibition right? [the prohibition of alcohol?] No, no, I'm talking about the FIRST prohibition. Thou shalt not partake of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Who was the big cop? *points up* And how many people did he have to watch? Two."

    What are the goals of this prohibition?

    I assume the goals of prohibition are to reduce the amount of drugs available, and to reduce the demand for those drugs. In both instances, Cannibis prohibition is an utter failure.

    Has the prohibition stopped people from using marijuana?

    Jeffrey Miron, Visiting Professor of Economics, Harvard University:
    "You get a phone call and it says, 'I'm from the federal government, I wanna know whether you've been using cocaine or marijuana recently.' - Presumably you might be getting a little bit of an underestimate."

    Ed Rosenthal, Grow Expert - Faced 100 years in prison:
    "In 1937 there were estimated to be 55,000 marijuana users. Now there are an estimated 50,000,000+ users. That is a 100,000% increase."

    Dr. Perry Kendall, British Columbia Provincial Health Officer:
    "Whether the drug is criminalized or decriminalized does not effect the rates of smoking of Cannabis. Either of uptake or discontinuation."

    Common thoughts regarding marijuana:

    Marijuana kills your brain cells:

    Joe Rogan, Comedian, Fear Factor & UFC Host:
    "I thought the same thing. I didn't start smokin' pot until about 5 years ago. I thought pot made you stupid. I bought into it just as much as anybody did. I realized when I was like 30 years old that I was tricked. I was like you gotta be f*cking kidding me."

    1974 - The Heath/Tulane Study:

    Ronald Regan announces: The most reliable scientific sources say permanent brain damage is one of the inevitable results of the use of marijuana.

    Monkeys pumped full of marijuana, apparently 30 joints a day, had begun to average die after 90 days. Brain damage was determined after counting the dead brain cells of both monkeys that had been subjected to the marijuana, and those who had not.

    This study became the foundation for the government and other special interest groups claiming that marijuana kills brain cells.

    Here is what they DIDN'T tell you:

    After six years of requests, how the study had been conducted were finally revealed. Instead of administering 30 joints a day for one year, Dr. Heath used a mask method of pumping 63 Colombian strength joints through a gas mask within five minutes over three months.

    Todd McCormick, Author of 'How to Grow Medicinal Marijuana':
    "They suffocated the monkeys. What they did is they put these gas masks basically on their face and they pumped pot into it, but without additional oxygen. So after X amount of time, the brain shut down. Well, if you suffocate, the first thing that is going to happen is your brain cells are going to die due to lack of oxygen. So what they did is they suffocated the monkey, showed all these dead brain cells, and then went on to associate it by saying that Cannabis use causes your brain cells to die. And how many people, not knowing the origin of the study, have gone to quote it, and re-quote it, and now people believe it."

    Studies since have shown no signs of any brain cell damage.

    Xia Zhang, University of Saskatchewan, Reported in the Journal Of Clinical Investigation:
    In 2005, new research suggested that marijuana could possibly stimulate brain cell growth.

    This new study did not receive the same attention.

    Another common belief - Marijuana causes lung cancer:

    Todd McCormick, Author of 'How to Grow Medicinal Marijuana':
    "In the 1999 study produced by the institute of medicine that was payed for by the United states government, they had to use words like may, and should, cause cancer."

    Rielle Capler, Policy Analyst - BC Compassion Club Society:
    "We've been hearing for years, them trying to say that it causes lung cancer, and we say 'really that's interesting, because you can't even show us one case of cancer being caused by Cannabis use alone.'"

    David Malmo-Levine, Vancouver Drug War History School:
    "You definitely have to do it moderately because it does paralyze the cilia, but if it's not radioactive, you're probably not going to get cancer from it."

    Dr. Paul Hornby, PhD, Biochemist & Human Pathologist:
    "Smoking can be harmful because of the properties of smoke..."

    Kirk Tousaw, Lawyer & BC Marijuana Party Manager:
    "...Not as a result of anything in the Cannabis plant, but because they're in-taking heated plant matter into their lungs."

    Dr. Lester Grinspoon, MD, Professor Ementus, Harvard Medical School:
    "People said, well you don't know, we haven't been smoking it long enough. Look at what happened with cigarettes. We have had more than four decades of experience. If this was gonna show up, it should have shown up by now."

    Rielle Capler, Policy Analyst - BC Compassion Club Society:
    "Finally the study came out, just in the last month, verifying that Cannibis smoke does not cause cancer, it's different than nicotine. And the elements in the tobacco smoke do cause cancer, and elements in the marijuana don't."

    The study mentioned above was performed by Dr. Donald Tashkin, UCLA: Marijuana Use and Lung Cancer: Results of a Case-Control Study.

    David Malmo-Levine, Vancouver Drug War History School:
    "There's no cases of marijuana only smokers getting brown lung syndrome. There's no cases of marijuana only smoker getting emphysema. Strange for a plant that's so dangerous."

    Dr. Donald Tashkin, M.D., UCLA:
    "Marijuana use does not cause or potentiate emphysema in any way."

    Stephen Bloom, Former High Times' Editor:
    "Marijuana is bad for you or worse than tobacco, IMPOSSIBLE. If they had the evidence, they'd be putting emaciated bodies, or emphysema, or lung cancer, black lungs; they would be parading them throughout the media. They don't have one, yet people somehow are to think that it might cause the same thing."

    In fact, if you look at the straight gaps from substances, a different type of picture starts to appear. The number one killer in the country - it beat out AIDS, heroin, crack, cocaine, alcohol, car accidents, fire, and murder COMBINED - was tobacco.

    With an average of 430,000 deaths per year, considering it's the number one killer, it's interesting to know that tobacco receives government subsidies and is grown with radioactive fertilizer.

    Number two on the list, if we don't include poor diet and physical inactivity, with well over 85,000 deaths a year, is alcohol.

    As we continue to look further down the list there are others that may surprise you. Caffeine weighs in with 1,000 to 10,000 deaths a year, and some of our most popular pain-relievers such as aspirin still make an appearance with over 7,500 deaths annually.

    Where does Marijuana lie in this? What kind of staggering number do we find?

    Dr. Lester Grinspoon, MD, Professor Ementus, Harvard Medical School:
    "THERE ARE NO DEATHS FROM CANNABIS USE ANYWHERE, YOU CAN'T FIND ONE."

    Joe Rogan, Comedian, Fear Factor & UFC Host:
    "In 10,000 years of known use of marijuana there has never been a single death attributed to marijuana. There's 400,000 annual deaths in America alone that are directly attributed to tobacco."

    Dr. Paul Hornby, PhD, Biochemist & Human Pathologist:
    "I've heard that you have to smoke something like 15,000 joints in 20 minutes to get a toxic amount of Tetrahydrocannabinol. I challenge anybody to do that."

    Dr. Perry Kendall, British Columbia Provincial Health Officer:
    "And even in the animal studies where people have loaded the animals up with doses that would be hundreds of times what a human could possibly be exposed to."

    Kirk Tousaw, Lawyer & BC Marijuana Party Manager:
    "I mean, you can die from ingesting too much aspirin. You can die from ingesting too much coffee."

    Jack A. Cole, Director of L.E.A.P., Former undercover narcotics agent - 14 years:
    "The drug warriors who say we have to protect society and save these people, are being just a little bit disingenuous."

    Not one university or medical facility has ever recorded a single death directly attributed to marijuana. But forget about that, there are other reasons to fear it. Take addiction for example:

    There are more kids in addiction clinics for marijuana than any other substance. This must mean that marijuana is the most addictive substance today.

    Kirk Tousaw, Lawyer & BC Marijuana Party Manager:
    "It's undoubtedly true that more teenagers and kids are in treatment for marijuana than all the other drugs combined. What the DEA never tells you is WHY that's true."

    Dr. Lester Grinspoon, MD, Professor Ementus, Harvard Medical School:
    "A kid is caught possessing or smoking marijuana. He is taken to court. He is given a choice: either some horrible penalty or you go to a treatment center - obviously chooses the treatment center and goes to treatment where he is considered an addict."

    Kirk Tousaw, Lawyer & BC Marijuana Party Manager:
    "But then the DEA goes to point to that stat and they look at all these kids in treatment for marijuana - it must be because today's marijuana is not the marijuana that your parents were smoking."

    David Malmo-Levine, Vancouver Drug War History School:
    "As far as I understand, only 3% of the people in treatment for marijuana are there voluntarily. The other 97% were told to by their guardian or told to by a judge - 'you can choose between jail or treatment,' and people would choose treatment."

    Dr. Lester Grinspoon, MD, Professor Ementus, Harvard Medical School:
    "It provides no basis for speaking about addiction. Anybody who is at all sophisticated about marijuana would rate them the way two researchers were asked to rate drugs in order of addiction. Nicotine was one, alcohol was two, then heroin, and cocaine, and then coffee, and then marijuana. There may have been a couple of other drugs, but marijuana was at the very bottom [laughing], below coffee."

    "Subject Narcotic",1951, presented by The Narcotic Educational Foundation of America:
    "This narcotic, unlike the opiates, the synthetics, and cocaine, is non-addictive. By non-addictive it is meant that the user of marijuana, when deprived of the drug, will not experience the agonies of withdraw. Its use can be discontinued."
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    Then what is its danger?

    Dr. Tod Mikuriya, MD, Former national administrator of the U.S. Gov's marijuana research programs:
    "It's used as a scape-goat for covering up underlying problems in people, especially young people. 'Here I am, don't ignore me'."

    Neil Boyd, Professor of Criminology, Simon Fraser University, Author of 'High Society':
    "If you use marijuana on a daily basis for a year or so, and you stop using it, your going to notice some differences, but NOTHING like the kind of withdraw people will experience with tobacco or heroin."

    The Gateway Theory:

    "Subject Narcotic",1951, presented by The Narcotic Educational Foundation of America:
    "It's greatest lies in the fact that it is a stepping stone to the harder drugs such as morphine and heroin."

    'Brink of Disaster', National Education Program Film - 1972:
    "That's why there are people that want to legalize marijuana. They figure they can can get the young people of this country onto drugs, they can destroy your generation, and the current generation."

    Dr. Lester Grinspoon, MD, Professor Ementus, Harvard Medical School:
    "You know, in the days of harry onslaught, it was called the stepping stone hypothesis - if you stepped on this stone , marijuana, you were bound and determined to go onto the next stone which would be one of the so-called hard drugs."

    John Conroy, QC, Criminal Defense Lawyer:
    "Every time it's been studied and looked at and so on, they have never ever found that there's anything in marijuana that makes you want to go to anything else."

    Dr. Lester Grinspoon, MD, Professor Ementus, Harvard Medical School:
    "There's is no inherent cycle/pharmacological property of the drug which pushes one toward another drug."

    Norm Stamper, PhD, Seattle Chief of Police, 1994-2000:
    "I drink alcohol, that's my drug of choice. It could be said I started on milk. I mean this is crazy. If I use marijuana why does that automatically make me a candidate to black-tar heroin. It's a non-nonsensical argument."

    In fact, only 1 out of every 104 marijuana users use cocaine, and less than 1 use heroin.

    David Malmo-Levine, Vancouver Drug War History School:
    "The black market throws the dealers of soft drugs together with the dealers of hard drugs."

    John Conroy, QC, Criminal Defense Lawyer:
    "So if you have a black market, and a dealer dealing with marijuana and LSD and everything else, then the dealer might say to you, 'hey you want to try something stronger?' Well in that sense BECAUSE of the black market, BECAUSE of prohibition, people may be more susceptible to seeing these other drugs and become willing to try these other drugs."

    Kirk Tousaw, Lawyer & BC Marijuana Party Manager:
    "And so what you see is that there is a gateway effect, but it's a gateway effect caused by prohibition and the blending of the hard and soft drug markets."

    What about laziness?

    You will be useless to society if you use marijuana, but if that's true, well there are about 50,000,000 people who smoke marijuana in America, and over half of the Canadian population who has tried it, and yet both societies seem to flourish.

    Just look who some of these people are:

    Steven Jobs developed apple computers while smoking pot.

    Tedd Turner developed CNN news smoking pot, and still smokes a joint every day.

    Marc Emery, Seed Retailer/Activist - aka 'Prince of Pot':
    "You go through every musician you like from the rolling stones to led zeppelin; they all smoke pot."

    Virtually every presidential candidate has now admitted to using marijuana at some point in his or her life.

    Joe Rogan, Comedian, Fear Factor & UFC Host:
    "The people that have personality problems, and the people that are going to be lazy and lose their job - they're going to lose their job anyway. They're not losing their job because of marijuana. That's just a lie."

    Todd McCormick, Author of 'How to Grow Medicinal Marijuana':
    "I love Tommy chong episodes where people, not knowing that he wrote and directed the movies, thought that that's what a stupid stoner looks like. No actually that's what a really brilliant creative genius looks like acting like somebody you think's a stoner."

    Ian Mulgrew, Vancouver Sun Columnist, Author of 'Bud Inc.':
    "And none of this is born out in the research or when you look at people who are long-term users and happen to be lawyers, judges, doctors, and writers."

    But what about the potency of the drug?

    Ian Mulgrew, Vancouver Sun Columnist, Author of 'Bud Inc.':
    "Anytime you got a bag of Colombian dope 20 years ago was way better than the Mexican that you normally got. So there's always been a range of THC in plants, and the fact that we can now grow stuff that's equivalent of what Colombian was 20 years ago - it doesn't mean that we are boosting thc to unheard of levels, it just means that there are some new things that people should be aware of in this discussion."

    Todd McCormick, Author of 'How to Grow Medicinal Marijuana':
    "I actually think it's a real stroke of our own ego to think that for the 50 or so years of prohibition that we've improved upon varieties that have been cultivated for drug use in places like India and such for thousands of years."

    Joe Rogan, Comedian, Fear Factor & UFC Host:
    "People say, 'well you can abuse marijuana.' Well sh*t you can abuse cheeseburgers too. You don't go around closing burger king because you can abuse something. I can take a fork and jam it in my eyeball, does that mean forks should be illegal? I could jump off of a bridge, should we outlaw bridges? Let's nerf the world."

    But what about all the crime and violence associated with marijuana?

    Norm Stamper, PhD, Seattle Chief of Police, 1994-2000:
    "From beat-cop to police chief, I saw ample evidence of the harm caused by alcohol and the ABSENCE of evidence of harm from marijuana use. And I made the complete absence - I can not recall a single case in which marijuana contributed to domestic violence, crimes of theft, and the like."

    Norm Stamper, PhD, Seattle Chief of Police, 1994-2000:
    "There are far more crimes committed under the influence of unadulterated emotions if you will - anger, rage, jealousy."

    Dr. Time Stockwell, PhD, Professor of Psychology, University of Victoria:
    "A lot of our understanding is driven by what's in the paper, what's on the television and the radio these days and we get extremes of the black and white thinking being reinforced by that."

    If only there was something to compare it to, something that was once prohibited at one time but is now regulated, so we could see what the difference might be...

    Under the prohibition of alcohol, EVERYTHING got worse, EVERYTHING.

    Alcohol prohibition birthed and gave rise to massive organized criminal groups within the United states. It led to a general disregard for the law, and a general disregard for police activity because it was a law that most people didn't obey.

    Alcohol poisoning went up 600% during prohibition. There were more speak-easys in New York City under prohibition than there are taverns and liquor stores today.

    Senator Larry Campbell, Mayor of Vancouver, 2002-2005, Former member of RCMP drug Squad: "This brings crime into it, that's why the ability to make money in it is so huge."


    *All information obtained comes from The Union, The Business Behind Getting High, individual interviews, and recorded historical events*
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    drugwarfacts.org/cms/?q=node/30 sorry i dont have enough posts to link it

    scroll down to the death chart...theres 7,600 people a year being killed because of aspirin. How many recorded weed deaths are there? 0. Everyone needs to watch The Union: the buisness behind getting high. When is the last time you heard about someone that was stoned smashing there car into another car? I hear about drunk drivers killing people everytime i turn on the news.
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    Quote Originally Posted by campbell8272 View Post
    drugwarfacts.org/cms/?q=node/30 sorry i dont have enough posts to link it

    scroll down to the death chart...theres 7,600 people a year being killed because of aspirin. How many recorded weed deaths are there? 0. Everyone needs to watch The Union: the buisness behind getting high. When is the last time you heard about someone that was stoned smashing there car into another car? I hear about drunk drivers killing people everytime i turn on the news.
    hahaha nobody drives fast while stoned
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    Actually, from what I understand, people that are stoned tend to drive slower, because they are aware of the fact that their reaction times are slowed. Drunk people have slower reaction times, but either aren't aware of that fact, or the reduced inhibitions stop them from caring, so they drive faster than they can handle at the time. Or so I've been told (I have a DUI for weed, and that's what the instructor at my court-mandated drug-rehab class said)! Either way, there are far more marijuana-related negatives than are being accepted. If you are intoxicated, you do not act normally, and thus, do not do things you would normally do. Like steal from a grocery store because you had the munchies, but spent all your money on weed. Or stole from a person, or got in an accident because you misjudged distances between cars, stoplights, stopsigns, etc. etc.
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    ahhh dude that sucks you got a weed DUI. what happened? blood shot eyes?
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    Quote Originally Posted by AntonG42O View Post
    ahhh dude that sucks you got a weed DUI. what happened? blood shot eyes?
    Nah, I had a broken taillight. I was going to the Albertson's to get some snacks, as I had JUST finished blazing a blunt in my red Mustang Cobra (real attention getter). So anyways, female cop, red mustang, loud exhaust, broken taillight, 2 12" subs, and weed-smell ALL over the car and myself, and blood-shot eyes. There was NO way I was not going to jail! Oh well, that was 6 years ago now, 4 years to go until I can have it expunged from my record, and start paying normal car insurance rates. Now, I don't drive after even ONE beer (or joint/blunt/bong-rip/etc.), it's just not worth it. I thank God every day I didn't kill anybody, because I literally could not live with myself after that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by campbell8272 View Post
    drugwarfacts.org/cms/?q=node/30 sorry i dont have enough posts to link it

    scroll down to the death chart...theres 7,600 people a year being killed because of aspirin. How many recorded weed deaths are there? 0. Everyone needs to watch The Union: the buisness behind getting high. When is the last time you heard about someone that was stoned smashing there car into another car? I hear about drunk drivers killing people everytime i turn on the news.
    You are a bit naive if you believe that. And that is coming from someone who is in full support of legalization and taxation.

    You posted your "Facts" from a very biased website.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AntonG42O View Post
    hahaha nobody drives fast while stoned
    I can vouch for this lol.
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    Quote Originally Posted by diablosho View Post
    Nah, I had a broken taillight. I was going to the Albertson's to get some snacks, as I had JUST finished blazing a blunt in my red Mustang Cobra (real attention getter). So anyways, female cop, red mustang, loud exhaust, broken taillight, 2 12" subs, and weed-smell ALL over the car and myself, and blood-shot eyes. There was NO way I was not going to jail! Oh well, that was 6 years ago now, 4 years to go until I can have it expunged from my record, and start paying normal car insurance rates. Now, I don't drive after even ONE beer (or joint/blunt/bong-rip/etc.), it's just not worth it. I thank God every day I didn't kill anybody, because I literally could not live with myself after that.
    LOL oh hell no. You're what my friends and I call a "heat-up" Sorry to hear about the charge man! Keep your head up brother! I say you look into expunging!
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    Quote Originally Posted by purebred View Post
    LOL oh hell no. You're what my friends and I call a "heat-up" Sorry to hear about the charge man! Keep your head up brother! I say you look into expunging!
    Ya know, that DUI may be the best thing to ever happen to me in my life (although it is still very difficult financially even 6 years later). I was going down the WRONG path at that time (very self-destructive), and after the DUI, I decided to straighten out my life (already had two drug-charges before the DUI). Now, I'm an Air Force veteran, and straight-A college student aspiring to be a Computer Programmer. Never saw any of this in my future back then, and I thank God all the time that I was stopped before I killed someone (or myself), ruined my future, or both!
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    Quote Originally Posted by purebred View Post
    What are the documented negative effects of occasional use of marijuana?
    (We're not talking about someone who smokes 10 grams every day, alone BTW)


    Even smoking 1 gram a day is bad for your lungs, I know from personal experience. Imagine what your lungs look like if the inside of a pipe after just a few weeks is all covered in resin. Try switching to a vaporizer or baking it instead!
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    Quote Originally Posted by campbell8272 View Post
    drugwarfacts.org/cms/?q=node/30 sorry i dont have enough posts to link it

    scroll down to the death chart...theres 7,600 people a year being killed because of aspirin. How many recorded weed deaths are there? 0. Everyone needs to watch The Union: the buisness behind getting high. When is the last time you heard about someone that was stoned smashing there car into another car? I hear about drunk drivers killing people everytime i turn on the news.

    *raises hand*

    well, almost anyways. if it wasnt for my friend sitting shotgun who screamed "DUDE!" I would've totally rear ended a car that stopped on the freeway because of traffic. I was kinda drifting off in my head and thinking about something else and didn't notice the brake lights.
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    Quote Originally Posted by raptor20561 View Post
    *raises hand*

    well, almost anyways. if it wasnt for my friend sitting shotgun who screamed "DUDE!" I would've totally rear ended a car that stopped on the freeway because of traffic. I was kinda drifting off in my head and thinking about something else and didn't notice the brake lights.
    Happened all the time back when I risked driving afterwards. Scared the hell out of me. I think that may be more due to sleepiness than the marijuana though, but either way, it's very bad juju!
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    What exactly are the documented negative effects of marijuana? Most of what I hear has to do with cognitive function--specifically memory.
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    Quote Originally Posted by purebred View Post
    What exactly are the documented negative effects of marijuana? Most of what I hear has to do with cognitive function--specifically memory.
    Other than the whole short term memory thing which usually goes away after a few weeks of abstaining, I think the only documented neg effects so far are how ****ed up your lungs become after years of smoking (anything for that matter).

    There's still a lot we don't know about. It was just a while ago that we finally understood where cannabinoids bind to. The receptors were ironically named cannabinoid receptors and they're activated on a daily basis in EVERYONES brain by endocannabinoids -- cannabinoids created in our heads

    When you smoke thc it floods the brain very quickly and lights up the receptors. As much as I want to deny it, there just has to be some sort of negative effect from flooding the brain with a nonendogonous (spelling?) source of thc. Along with the thc, there's hundreds of cannabinoids that are in marijuana that we are still classifying and understanding to this day. By no means am I trying to be the bearer of bad news; the brain is a resiliant organ with a high degree of plasticity. It does a great job at maintaining equilibrium and homeostasis over time. meaning that the negative effects you experience should (almost) go away after a few months of abstaining from marijuana. If your interested, read about the cannabinoid receptor and what it does. It has great anxiolytic properties, I did a bio project on those effects in college. It's good to know what the receptor your ****ing with actually does; however, ignorance is bliss
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    sorry for any spelling or grammar errors. I'm on my iPhone and don't really give a ****
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    In response to anything from drugwarfacts.org

    "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics"
    -Mark Twain

    Find real evidence.
    By believing passionately in something that still does not exist, we create it. The nonexistent is whatever we have not sufficiently desired.
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    I think this thread would have had a lot more legs if it weren't trying to be so academic. I think that may have scared a lot of ppl off.

    I'd just as soon here people sharing their experiences with using it as it relates to bodybuilding mostly.
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    The purpose of this particular thread was to be academic (correct me if im wrong OP) with evidence based claims.

    Im not opposed to opening it up to relation to bodybuilding but I wanna see numbers.
    By believing passionately in something that still does not exist, we create it. The nonexistent is whatever we have not sufficiently desired.
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrganicShadow View Post
    The purpose of this particular thread was to be academic (correct me if im wrong OP) with evidence based claims.

    Im not opposed to opening it up to relation to bodybuilding but I wanna see numbers.
    This. All ideas and non-biased contributions are welcomed. It's easier to understand any topic when you view the many aspects that compose it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrganicShadow View Post
    The purpose of this particular thread was to be academic (correct me if im wrong OP) with evidence based claims.

    Im not opposed to opening it up to relation to bodybuilding but I wanna see numbers.
    But the problem with that is that research studies on marijuana were illegal until JUST recently, and even then, only a very select few universities are able to get funding to do so. So between the 60's I think to about 5 years ago or so, there was a marijuana-research blackout, and lies and propaganda filled the void. So much so, that people FIRMLY believe the lies because there is no scientific truth to rebut the lies with. As such, creating a thread restricting information only to scientific research studies will restrict you to the propaganda in the 60's, but by opening it up, you will be allowing other viewpoints in. Just my opinion.
    P.S.
    Remember Superdrol was supposed to be liver friendly as far as science and research was concerned. WE know better. Had the OP limited THAT discussion to science only, he would have been misled. Sometimes anecdotal evidence goes a long way.
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    Quote Originally Posted by diablosho View Post
    But the problem with that is that research studies on marijuana were illegal until JUST recently, and even then, only a very select few universities are able to get funding to do so. So between the 60's I think to about 5 years ago or so, there was a marijuana-research blackout, and lies and propaganda filled the void. So much so, that people FIRMLY believe the lies because there is no scientific truth to rebut the lies with. As such, creating a thread restricting information only to scientific research studies will restrict you to the propaganda in the 60's, but by opening it up, you will be allowing other viewpoints in. Just my opinion.
    P.S.
    Remember Superdrol was supposed to be liver friendly as far as science and research was concerned. WE know better. Had the OP limited THAT discussion to science only, he would have been misled. Sometimes anecdotal evidence goes a long way.
    There is a phenomenal amount of medical research on marijuana. America is only 300MM people out of 6.5B, research has been done millions of times over, regardless if it was performed here or not. There is no shortage of marijuana research to talk about.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    There is a phenomenal amount of medical research on marijuana. America is only 300MM people out of 6.5B, research has been done millions of times over, regardless if it was performed here or not. There is no shortage of marijuana research to talk about.
    True. I'm just saying we are more likely to find research information presented from and in our country. Not to mention the fact that America has always been an EXTREMELY LARGE monetary fund for research studies, more so I believe than any other country. However, if you look here: http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...juana-research, not only were the grants restricted to very limited purposes for research, but they even denied people based on their intentions! One scientist in that link wrote a proposition to get funding to study the medical effects of marijuana and was denied. He then re-wrote the proposition claiming to study the negative effects of marijuana, and was approved. So again, accurate research is limited. I have never seen ANY research from other countries, positive or negative. However, if we open up to anecdotal evidence, there may be 10's of millions of people doing the studies as we speak! So why not ask them, so long as we keep it objective.
    P.S.
    Cannabis is a Schedule I drug according to the federal government of the United States. Other Schedule I drugs include Heroin, LSD, and Ecstasy. Schedule I states that the drug has no safe nor accepted medical use, and has a high abuse risk. Seems like our government has a bias against marijuana (as I'm sure everyone would believe that it does have at least SOME redeeming medicinal value, is relatively safe (safer than alcohol anyways), and has less of an addiction potential than Heroin). As such, I find it hard to believe they would be willing to fund research studies attempting to prove it's safety. Hell, they won't even fund research studies attempting to disprove global warming. But anecdotally, I'm fairly certain that many people suspect this global warming thing is a hoax, and it sure would be nice to have research funded to counteract the bias, and actually attempt to find the truth. Kinda the same principle.
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    Ha, I just found that Schedule II drugs (which are "more accepted" than Schedule I) include: Cocaine, Morphine, Oxycodone, Ritalin, and Dexedrine (Dextroamphetamine). Schedule III: Valium, Xanax, Codeine, Hydrocodone, etc.

    So now, to recap, according to our government:
    Marijuana has no medicinal value, and is more unsafe than: Cocaine, Morphine, Oxycodone, Ritalin, Dexedrine, Valium, Xanax, Codeine, Hydrocodone,

    and is as unsafe as: Heroin, LSD, and Ecstasy!

    Do we really need a research study to get marijuana scheduled differently? Probably not. As such, I believe this is pretty clear evidence of a federal bias against marijuana, for whatever reason, but to think that bias wouldn't carry over into it's decisions on what marijuana studies to fund is, I believe, kinda ludicrous.
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    Quote Originally Posted by diablosho View Post
    True. I'm just saying we are more likely to find research information presented from and in our country. Not to mention the fact that America has always been an EXTREMELY LARGE monetary fund for research studies, more so I believe than any other country. However, if you look here: http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...juana-research, not only were the grants restricted to very limited purposes for research, but they even denied people based on their intentions! One scientist in that link wrote a proposition to get funding to study the medical effects of marijuana and was denied. He then re-wrote the proposition claiming to study the negative effects of marijuana, and was approved. So again, accurate research is limited. I have never seen ANY research from other countries, positive or negative. However, if we open up to anecdotal evidence, there may be 10's of millions of people doing the studies as we speak! So why not ask them, so long as we keep it objective.
    P.S.
    Cannabis is a Schedule I drug according to the federal government of the United States. Other Schedule I drugs include Heroin, LSD, and Ecstasy. Schedule I states that the drug has no safe nor accepted medical use, and has a high abuse risk. Seems like our government has a bias against marijuana (as I'm sure everyone would believe that it does have at least SOME redeeming medicinal value, is relatively safe (safer than alcohol anyways), and has less of an addiction potential than Heroin). As such, I find it hard to believe they would be willing to fund research studies attempting to prove it's safety. Hell, they won't even fund research studies attempting to disprove global warming. But anecdotally, I'm fairly certain that many people suspect this global warming thing is a hoax, and it sure would be nice to have research funded to counteract the bias, and actually attempt to find the truth. Kinda the same principle.
    I think you are missing much of the available research out there then. Pubmed alone has 16K studies under the title marijuana or cannabis, and many of them originate from other countries. In fact most of the research posted on this forum is from other countries. China and Japan seem to predominately lead the research categories, with Italy and India not far behind. JAMA if I remember correctly has published quite a bit of research in the past.

    I completely agree with you that the image has been warped in America, mostly by our fearful cotton industry. Everyone has the right to share their experience, but if we want to discuss facts, then we need to keep to the research and disregard Joe Smiths totally blazed evening on a thursday with so much focus in the gym it was laser like.
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    Quote Originally Posted by diablosho View Post
    Ha, I just found that Schedule II drugs (which are "more accepted" than Schedule I) include: Cocaine, Morphine, Oxycodone, Ritalin, and Dexedrine (Dextroamphetamine). Schedule III: Valium, Xanax, Codeine, Hydrocodone, etc.

    So now, to recap, according to our government:
    Marijuana has no medicinal value, and is more unsafe than: Cocaine, Morphine, Oxycodone, Ritalin, Dexedrine, Valium, Xanax, Codeine, Hydrocodone,

    and is as unsafe as: Heroin, LSD, and Ecstasy!

    Do we really need a research study to get marijuana scheduled differently? Probably not. As such, I believe this is pretty clear evidence of a federal bias against marijuana, for whatever reason, but to think that bias wouldn't carry over into it's decisions on what marijuana studies to fund is, I believe, kinda ludicrous.
    You can thank lobbyist from the cotton industry for the stance on cannabis in America today. It wasn't so much the government that had the bias, but pressure from their constituents to outlaw it when the fear campaign was launched. I refer you to reefer madness.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    You can thank lobbyist from the cotton industry for the stance on cannabis in America today. It wasn't so much the government that had the bias, but pressure from their constituents to outlaw it when the fear campaign was launched. I refer you to reefer madness.
    Frustrating isn't it! I totally agree we need to keep out Joe Blow's Blazed Weekend! But as we find to be true even with our supplements, often times the research does not accurately reflect reality, and it would not be prudent to ignore people's individual studies. But I s'pose for now it would be prudent just to assist in wading through all the BS and stick to what facts we do have. How recently were these pubmed studies performed? I tried to look through EBSCO, but it seems to be down at the moment.
    P.S.
    I like debating you DAdams!!! It's not often people are well prepared for a debate, and I find a good debate challenges me to learn and either reinforce what I know or learn the correct information! Either way, this is fun!
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    Quote Originally Posted by diablosho View Post
    Frustrating isn't it! I totally agree we need to keep out Joe Blow's Blazed Weekend! But as we find to be true even with our supplements, often times the research does not accurately reflect reality, and it would not be prudent to ignore people's individual studies. But I s'pose for now it would be prudent just to assist in wading through all the BS and stick to what facts we do have. How recently were these pubmed studies performed? I tried to look through EBSCO, but it seems to be down at the moment.
    P.S.
    I like debating you DAdams!!! It's not often people are well prepared for a debate, and I find a good debate challenges me to learn and either reinforce what I know or learn the correct information! Either way, this is fun!
    My searches pulled all the way back into the 50s into 2011... ironically many of them seem to come from Germany! I personally really have no stance on it at the moment so am always open to others opinions on it. Albeit, I firmly stand by the ability for mature adults to make their own decisions on the use of cannabis, especially in a climate like this where everyone is partaking anyway and we could tax the hell outta some Marlboro greens and gain stepping stone to resolving our deficit.

    There are obviously medical benefits to MaryJane or otherwise pharma wouldn't have made Marinol, a synthetic THC.
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