IF and bulking

[SweetLou321]

So i want to give intermittent fasting a try. But i want to try it for bulking.
I usually train around 2:00-2:30

So i was planning on breaking the fast at 12-12:30 with 25% of daily cals
Then pre-training 5g Bcaa
Post-training 10g Bcaa+20g Carbs
30min Later Post-wo meal at around 4:30, biggest meal
6:30-7:00-5g Bcaa+20g Carbs
8:00-9:00-Last Meal

Anyone see any problem with this?

Weight 188
Cal goal: 3350-3450
Protein 225-235
Carbs 410-430
Fats 70-80

Btw im in college and work part time, my timing may not be exact 8/16 bc i would like to eat more whole foods over shakes as most my eating time will be during school and work.

 

[tubbednova]

Just the two together "fasting&bulking"to me that makes as much sense as a sceen door on a submarine.

 

[SweetLou321]

have you been on leangains and read some of the stuff on the site? I mean its good info and i figured id try it out. You never know until you try man. Im still gonna hit the same diet numbers i was when eating 5 meal perday.

 

[tubbednova]

have you been on leangains and read some of the stuff on the site? I mean its good info and i figured id try it out. You never know until you try man. Im still gonna hit the same diet numbers i was when eating 5 meal perday.

Just try it and see what happens.Keep an eye on your morning heart rate and strengh when lifting.I don't want you to overtrain.Been there its not good.

 

[SweetLou321]

well im debating between this and layne nortons diet layout, which is
4 meals a day 4-6 hrs apart with 5g bcaa+20g carbs between each meal
I just hear so much talk of lean gains on this board lol

 

[MidwestBeast]

well im debating between this and layne nortons diet layout, which is
4 meals a day 4-6 hrs apart with 5g bcaa+20g carbs between each meal
I just hear so much talk of lean gains on this board lol

I'm intrigued by the diet; I was researching it this weekend as I talked to one of the guys I know at my gym who has been using it and I know several others on the forums here who will be doing it, too. I haven't taken the time to read the actual studies where the research was taken from, though, yet.

If you're going that route, I'd ditch the aminos between your last 2 meals. Don't try to make a hybrid of Layne's diet and this one; go with one or the other. If you're going with IF, cut those out and I'd probably cut out the carbs post-workout, too, and just go with the post-workout meal and add them to it in a whole food form.

 

[SweetLou321]

yea i decided to go with pure IF
which is
wake-9:30ish
Pre-wo-10g Bcaa-2:00ish
Post-wo-10g Bcaa-4:00ish
Post-wo meal 4:30ish-100g pro, 200g carbs, 15g fats
Meal 2-8:00ish-60g pro, 75g carbs, 25g fats
Meal 3-12:00ish-60g pro, 75g carbs, 25g fats
3000 cals, 250g pro, 350g carbs, 65g fats. Maintance cals to start.
Ill give this run for about 4-6 weeks as per easyELJ suggestions.
If im pleased ill continue the trial period, if not ill switch to laynes and do the same trail period of 4-6 weeks.

Thanks for all the help guys, day 1, i have a lot more energy then usual BUT im kinda hungry and my brain isnt quite at 100% more like 90%, way easier then i would have thought, only thing is, how am i gonna eat so much post-wo at once?! lol

 

[MidwestBeast]

only thing is, how am i gonna eat so much post-wo at once?! lol

That was my exact thought reading this as well, lol. I'm so used to splitting cals/macros across 7-8 meals that this was almost scary to look at.

I used to be able to put some food away, but nowadays, come Thanksgiving or anytime there's a big meal, I get through about a plate and a half and can't touch another thing.

 

[SweetLou321]

ill figure it out lol, i may not be as "clean" as i normally eat but i believe i got it. lol
Idk if my macros are off or what considering this is what i would normally eat on maintence cals, a lil more carbs and less protein then normal here. but ill be increasing protein and fats and lowering carbs on off days, as per leangains, suggestions. Only time will tell

 

[SweetLou321]

i just wanted to update and say today went amazing, although i couldnt quite get all of my post-wo meal in lol. My session was one of the best ive had in ages and i felt absolutly amazing. Energy levels were up as was strength. I will try to update in a week.
weight yesterday was 190.

 

[MidwestBeast]

i just wanted to update and say today went amazing, although i couldnt quite get all of my post-wo meal in lol. My session was one of the best ive had in ages and i felt absolutly amazing. Energy levels were up as was strength. I will try to update in a week.
weight yesterday was 190.

Glad to hear it!

Keep me updated for sure because I'm certainly intrigued by the theory / style.

 

[SweetLou321]

Ill try my best man, once my rag log ends ill prob start one in the training forum, to keep track of things on here with my log book. Just so others can see.

 

[rayactr2k6]

Just the two together "fasting&bulking"to me that makes as much sense as a sceen door on a submarine.

im with you on this one. if u wana bulk up, eat non stop

 

[SweetLou321]

hmm ill see if i cant prove this mindset wrong

 

[rayactr2k6]

hmm ill see if i cant prove this mindset wrong

i just feel like it would be terrible for your metabolism too. a couple hours after eating your metabolism slows down a lot unless you give it more food

 

[MidwestBeast]

i just feel like it would be terrible for your metabolism too. a couple hours after eating your metabolism slows down a lot unless you give it more food

I haven't read the studies, yet, but that's a big part of his argument with this method - that metabolism isn't altered by waiting to eat (that the body can go something like 3 days before it has a negative impact on the thyroid). His argument is that the eating smaller meals more frequently method was initiated by people with ties to supplement companies pushing MRPs.

I'll be reading the studies for sure, just because I find all of that stuff interesting.

 

[thebiggerpict]

i no alot people say its not about how many times you eat,, its all about your dailt macros,,

well 1st off i love eating so more meal,, means something look forward 2

2nd,, sumo wrestlers only eat one meal a day,, and there is a reason 4 that,, i believe it slow your matbolism down,, and fat gain as to much in 1 sitting to digest

 

[ssbackwards]

i just feel like it would be terrible for your metabolism too. a couple hours after eating your metabolism slows down a lot unless you give it more food

oh reary? bc theres no scientific data to support that nottion

however there is that small bouts of fasting down regulates PPARy, increases insulin sensitivity and HSL along with PPARa

cha chingggggggg

 

[rayactr2k6]

oh reary? bc theres no scientific data to support that nottion

however there is that small bouts of fasting down regulates PPARy, increases insulin sensitivity and HSL along with PPARa

cha chingggggggg

I haven't searched for scientific data on it, so you may be right. I did read it in men's health, and there was some expert that was saying it. Either a doctor or dietician, i don't remember which.

 

[SweetLou321]

i no alot people say its not about how many times you eat,, its all about your dailt macros,,

well 1st off i love eating so more meal,, means something look forward 2

2nd,, sumo wrestlers only eat one meal a day,, and there is a reason 4 that,, i believe it slow your matbolism down,, and fat gain as to much in 1 sitting to digest

actually they eat two "meals" that consist of some special food over there. That is only considered their meals. They do not count burgers, buffets, and anything else that does not contain this one type of dish as a meal. Do some more research. If you want ill find the name of the dish too.

 

[SweetLou321]

So i may not be putting this diet to the test for 6 weeks as planned. Ive been talking to layne norton about the benfits of dieting this way. So far im less then impressed, im not sure if any of you know. But his research that was done to earn his phD showed that eating all ones protein in a few meals was not better then eating it over say 4-5 meals. This has to do with leucine content of protein sources, refactory response to protein, the rate that protein synthesis lasts in the body. As im training to one day compete in powerlifting, i aim to preform at my best. So ill keep everyone updated on what conclusion i come to. Research, research, research.

 

[ssbackwards]

partial fasting and GH

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC329619/

Fasting and HSL

http://ajpendo.physiology.org/content/266/2/E179.short

Fasting and Leptin

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/82/2/561

Fasting and CPT1

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6T1X-47F6YJV-NG&_user=10&_coverDate=09/24/1981&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=gateway&_origin=gateway&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1720381528&_rerunOrigin=scholar.google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=a0f38e175ae35eaa00640defd0b95e1c&searchtype=a

Fasting and UCP3

http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/47/2/298.short

 

[ssbackwards]

fasting and T3

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6WN4-4C8369W-1S&_user=10&_coverDate=08/31/1978&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=gateway&_origin=gateway&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1720382938&_rerunOrigin=scholar.google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=1a5ff6dd2022bb196a0bd51b501e9d4f&searchtype=a

Fasting AND refeeding on human skeletal muscle

http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/52/3/657.short

 

[ssbackwards]

That last study inparticular is why IF works so well on a bulk with lower carbs.

The others can explain more benefits.

laynes a smart dude not discrediting him at all however. you can eat every 2.5 hours on the IF diet get in 3 meals, and still in between hit the BCAAs if you worried bout that protein refractory he seems to talk about.

 

[shm03]

I've been trying to come up with an IF bulking diet. Here is what I've come up with any feedback?

2 Hours Pre Workout: 8 Scrambled Eggs, 0.5lbs Salmon Fillets, Mixed Salad
Post Workout: Hydrolyzed Protein and Dextrose Shake + Banana
Meal 1: 1 lbs lean minced beef, 1 lbs sweet Potatoes, Cauliflower and Brocolli
Meal 2: 200g Oats, 650g Cottage Cheese and 100g Casein.

Totals: 415g Protein, 94g Fat, 414g Carbs - 4100 Cals

 

[ssbackwards]

I've been trying to come up with an IF bulking diet. Here is what I've come up with any feedback?

2 Hours Pre Workout: 8 Scrambled Eggs, 0.5lbs Salmon Fillets, Mixed Salad
Post Workout: Hydrolyzed Protein and Dextrose Shake + Banana
Meal 1: 1 lbs lean minced beef, 1 lbs sweet Potatoes, Cauliflower and Brocolli
Meal 2: 200g Oats, 650g Cottage Cheese and 100g Casein.

Totals: 415g Protein, 94g Fat, 414g Carbs - 4100 Cals

i hate seeing carbs that high!!

you dont need them that high to grow!

increase fat, and decreas carbs

increasing the fat will be easier to hit your cals.

 

[shm03]

i hate seeing carbs that high!!

you dont need them that high to grow!

increase fat, and decreas carbs

increasing the fat will be easier to hit your cals.

Its following a 40/40/20 P/C/F split. At the moment I am doing a low carb IF setup - sub 100g a day and lots of healthy fats, from coconut oil, fish and nuts. It would be quite easy to reduce the carbs.

I could just drop the 200g of oats, thats a huge chunk of the daily carb intake - 140g or so.

 

[ssbackwards]

Its following a 40/40/20 P/C/F split. At the moment I am doing a low carb IF setup - sub 100g a day and lots of healthy fats, from coconut oil, fish and nuts. It would be quite easy to reduce the carbs.

I could just drop the 200g of oats, thats a huge chunk of the daily carb intake - 140g or so.

for sure do that

maybe 350 protein 200 carb 200 fat

thats about 3900 cals

 

[SweetLou321]

Yea ive seen the studies. Im still learning all around for now.
High carb on IF equals droziness. You dont need high carb to grow, high fat to grow, or high high protein to grow. But you do need cals and they gotta come from somewhere lol

 

[wontstop985]

I've had way more energy and have been in a better mood in general since I've started the lean gains IF. Also, my muscles seem fuller and I enjoy eating more. Just thought I'd let you guys know.

 

[JohnRock]

i just feel like it would be terrible for your metabolism too. a couple hours after eating your metabolism slows down a lot unless you give it more food

Not true at all. Your metabolism will only speed up to take care of the food it has to digest and even then, it's not going to burn more calories than you took in.

 

[ssbackwards]

Not true at all. Your metabolism will only speed up to take care of the food it has to digest and even then, it's not going to burn more calories than you took in.

posted the study above if you want to read further

 

[ssbackwards]

I've had way more energy and have been in a better mood in general since I've started the lean gains IF. Also, my muscles seem fuller and I enjoy eating more. Just thought I'd let you guys know.

thats weird.

today i ate basically all my calories in the 3 hours following my workout. (cut down to 2400 on workout days and 2000 on non workout days) and i take 2-4 recompadrol prior, and after the meal. im out like a light. so exhausted. maybe its low cals, maybe its low blood sugar (which i highly doubt) or maybe its caffeine withdrawl. but whatever it is im exhausted always after the big meal. and im eating keto sytle.

i do love the eating however. so nice to toss down a good amount of food!