Bulk OR Cut? help me!

[CountryLiftin]

Right now Im finishing off a bulking cycle, which is purely based on the intensity of my workouts, my diet, and a few supps im on, nothing hardcore. I Want to know If I should continue putting on weight or try to cut to eliminate fat then go for more gains. I feel like I wana just keep getting bigger but at the same time I know for every couple pounds of muscle I get I have been getting a little bit more fat.

Heres my history. 16 YO. I started out last fall at the end of long distance running season, weighing about 158. I began lifting in november, and by feb I was at 146 at my lowest, pretty solid but small, low fat. I kept working out til spring track season, where I sat at about 155. I put on some more fat, and some leg mass during season. Im a sprinter and track in my main sport for the year, so Its what is most important to me other than lifting, which takes presidense now. I continued to lift through track season and finished about 158.I decided to go hardcore over the summer to come back to school huge, and about three weeks into my workout I screwed up my left elbow/shoulder. I was off and on liftin for the rest of summer trying to lift, and I made some gains to about 165. After everything was feeling better, I bumped up to 168. I started using more creatine, and started my harder workout w/ some new supps and brought me up to about 174. I cycled off creatine til I lost all my extra water weight, increased diet, and then went back on creatine after the water weight was gona, and made it up to 178, where I was stuck. I just started my new stack two weeks ago with zma and gaba to try and lose some fat and increase test, along with the sleep help, and got monster mass shake to go with my torrent, and a few other goodies. I increased my diet over the past two weeks and i weighed in 181.5 two days ago. Thats where I stand.

So where do I go? Im gona try to get some before pics, and a more recent pic. my profile pic was taken today, for reference.

Along with your suggestion of cut or bulk, a suggestion of some good products, exercises, diets or whatever else would be appreciated. thank you!

 

[CountryLiftin]

hmph

welll apparently I dont have enough posts to give you pictures but Ill get on that later.

 

[wearedbleedblue]

If you're a sprinter at 5'9, you're way too heavy. Cut.

 

[CountryLiftin]

Haha thats what Ive been told, but suprisingly im still in pretty good shape. Ive always had a larger build, im just more muscle now. But im deff cutting for track season but its still a ways off... I run the 200 better than 100 because my top speed just wasnt there last year... but this year im probably doing shot and sprinting, just because. IVe been working legs and sprint training still so Im still in decent shape, but just heavier. I dont feel slow or bulked, yet, thats why Im trying to decide if I should go any heavier, but yea, your right. 180 is a little heavy for me for track season

 

[wearedbleedblue]

If you want to be a legit sprinter, you need to cut to the point that you have VERY visible abs. Fat=slow. From that point, slowly add 1-2 lb a month. This your senior year or do you have one more left?

 

[CountryLiftin]

Im a junior. and yeah, Ive tried to cut before but I have a really really hard time losing weight. and I do have pretty visable abbs, not like wrestler abbs but, Im not too awful fat. id say 10-12 percent. I know, im the heaviest sprinter that I know, but next year ill be in the top four in my district just by my times I had last year. and Im alot quicker this year, and Ill begin sprint training by january hardcore. I want to cut but not lose too much mass so I am thinking keep bulking for the rest of this year, then cut but try to keep protein and work harder than ever in the gym, so I can try and maintain the muscle I have now after I cut later. If that makes sense?

 

[wearedbleedblue]

Mass doesn't mean anything unless it makes you faster. I say cut a little and see what it does to your times. Lather rinse repeat.

 

[CountryLiftin]

Haha of course your right, and I agree 100%! I just want to keep as much of my muscle as I can. I guess I need a good cut stack but I have no idea where to begin considering Ive been bulk bulk bulk since I began lifting.

 

[wearedbleedblue]

It's called clean up your diet. At your age and activity level, you don't need any supplements to cut fat.

 

[stxnas]

If you're a sprinter, I would concentrate on keeping as much lean mass as possible. I say don't bulk or cut. If I were you, I would RECOMP!

Long Distance Runner vs Sprinter

 

[wearedbleedblue]

Two of the best in the world. Lean and mean. Much smaller upper bodies than in the past. You're holding useless muscle if you're huge up top as a sprinter.

 

[stxnas]

Good point!

 

[CountryLiftin]

There is really nothing to clean up in my diet, its already pretty strict. The only thing I can do is eat less of the good stuff I eat, which is alot because Ive been bulking... And yes I know, lean mass lean mass lean mass. What do you mean by recomp?

Ive gona on a pretty good diet last year, and was running cross country and lifting some, puttin in around 2 5ks a day. and I still couldnt lose the fat I had left on my stomach glutes and love handles. Genetically everyone in my familly has been overweight, and I dont have much trouble getting fat, so I try to avoid all simple cards fats etc, and I spend alot of time working out. lately Ive upped time, intensity, and frequency so I can try to burn a few more calories off so I can start to lose that fat.

 

[wearedbleedblue]

Give a sample diet. And one you actually would eat during a day, not just an idealized one.

 

[jumpshot903]

AS everyone has stated if your serious about sprinting your going to need to cut if this is just something your gonna do in high school and not beyond continue with what your doing. Diet is 90% of how your body will look with jusy 10% coming from exercise and other factors most teens think there diet is strict because comparably to other teens it is but post a sample diet and we'll critique it, does it have proper macros? and what not?

 

[wearedbleedblue]

AS everyone has stated if your serious about sprinting your going to need to cut if this is just something your gonna do in high school and not beyond continue with what your doing. Diet is 90% of how your body will look with jusy 10% coming from exercise and other factors most teens think there diet is strict because comparably to other teens it is but post a sample diet and we'll critique it, does it have proper macros? and what not?

IMO, there is no such thing as "proper macros", especially if you're comparing a bodybuilding style diet to an athlete's diet.

 

[jumpshot903]

There is such thing as proper macros for what his goals are if your goal is to cut fat and keep lbm your macros will be different then someone looking to bulk up with no regard for fat. Proper macros means atleast to me proper macros for your current goals.

So what your saying is theres no proper macros period.... i never said comparing diets or any of that just proper macros for his current goals which to me makes sense.

 

[wearedbleedblue]

Do share the proper macros then. At this point we don't have any idea what he's eating. An athlete, whether cutting or not, doesn't need to count calories. Performance should dictate whether he eats more of one thing or less of another.

 

[CountryLiftin]

Alright I will get you a sample diet in a few mins. right now Im bulking, so Im eating high protein high complex CHO and medium fat. Id say roughly a 404020 ration through out my day. I also make sure I get my Multi V and I take creatine in addition to the other goodies I get in my pre and post WO drinks. I eat balanced and lots of fruits and veges, and try to get from different and varied sources esp when it comes to lean meat. I watch out for bad fats and try to get the good EFAs. I doubt I have the speed to compete well in college, if anything I will be playing intermural football, or MMA, because I do have a bit of an interest in those as well. I was just unable to play football earlier because of an injury but I plan on playing this coming year as a senior.

 

[CountryLiftin]

16 YO 5'9" 180 around 12% BF

Diet:

7am:Usually peanutbutter waffles (2) aka whole grain waffles with peanut butter spread, some fruit, and about 3 cups skim milk
1130:2 cups milk, 2 cups water, 2 slices pizza, 1 chicken sandwhich no bun, vege or fruit
330rotein shake, either torrent monstermass or homemade
500: This is where I workout, so I get alot of water here, Xtend if I have any.
700: protein shake, ^
800:Meal for the night, usually some type of meat I can find, sometimes oatmeal, whole grain pastas, sandwhiches with whole grain bread and meat.Also a homemade shake to drink with this as well a 2 or 3 cups of milk
930: two cups water with ZMA for bed. Before I was eating another meal around this time but since I started zma a week ago I cut it out. Im starting to make gains so I guess the loss of the meal isnt hurting me.

 

[jumpshot903]

Do share the proper macros then. At this point we don't have any idea what he's eating. An athlete, whether cutting or not, doesn't need to count calories. Performance should dictate whether he eats more of one thing or less of another.

I dont find much sense in anything you just said what i stated is proper macros for what his goals are not in general. Im not saying he should follow a guideline of proper macros im saying he should have proper macros to meet his goals. And you say an athlete shouldnt count calories, then how do you know if your eating to much or too little you many not feel the effects of not eating enough for a few days if your serious about getting your diet correct and getting in the best shape possible your going to count calories. Performance can vary from day to day for more reasons then just food so why base it on something that is completely a non factor.

All im saying is he should count cals and should TRY to meet proper macros for HIS goals simple enough if he doesnt want to count cals and risk fluctuating day to day so be it idc. This is my opinion on the topic and last time i checked im intitled to my opinion.

 

[CountryLiftin]

right now my cals are at about 5k a day... sometimes a little above 4k. I was thinking like 2500 to cut. especially because once I start sprint training thats another 500 cals Il be burning a day. I have a prettty short, thick build for a sprinter, as in I have wide shoulders, but Im skinnier front to back. I also have a short upper torso and very long legs in proportion, basically the reason I can sprint, because I have long legs and a compact powerful upperbody. Its not gona get me to the olympics but I have more speed than 99% of my peers.

 

[wearedbleedblue]

I work with weight class athletes and fat loss clients. Neither of them count calories and both are successful in doing what needs to be done. Weird how that works huh? You know whether they're eating enough or not enough based on performance and body composition. Some days you work harder than others. This means you will need to eat more. Counting calories doesn't take into account the difference in intensity on a "good" day versus a "bad" day. Of course you're entitled to your opinion, I just disagree with it and have yet to read anything regarding this topic from you that has changed my mind. Maybe if you could share your experience with working with athletes and controlling their diets I'd better understand.

I think the only thing you need to do at this point is add in 3-4 servings of veggies a day. Not subtract anything or count anything. Maybe fish oil if you aren't already taking it. Make sure you eat the veggies first in the meal so that you are always able to finish them. Think of the main meal as a dessert to your veggies if you don't like them. I'd also like to see you switch out half of your skim milk for whole milk or all of it for 1%. Your season doesn't start until March, correct?

 

[wearedbleedblue]

Also, i say there are no proper macros because different days require different macros. On a sprinting day, you should consume more carbs, especially around training time. Weight days should be a little lower in carbs, all focused on the workout window. Recovery or technique days need to be low in carbs and high in fat. If you prescribe macros for 3 different kind of days it just starts to get confusing and most people will quit listening. I've worked with kids and I've worked with adults. Neither will listen when bombarded with too much information at one time.

 

[CountryLiftin]

yes thats correct, it starts late march I believe. so you say you want me to eat more to cut? hahaha. and I do eat more veges I just really didnt throw them in. I always get at least one at lunch if I can I try to get three, and when we have them for supper I have as much as I can. I really actually love veges very much, and it dosent matter what they are. btw all my shakes are with milk not water, so its 2 servings of like 20 oz of milk and three cups in my homemade shape.

 

[CountryLiftin]

I would just like to share that Im a pretty good listener Im actually second in my class and a pretty good athlete and socially active unlike alot of the "smarter kids"

So I can understand and listen to what your trying to say. Go all out

 

[wearedbleedblue]

so you drink nearly a gallon of milk a day? Any particular reason? Cutting this much milk in half might be a good idea since you're already eating a lot of veggies. That, or just eat carbs only during the 3 hours before your workout and within 3 hours after your workout. Either are little things you can do to make a difference at this point. You have a long time to drop weight so slow and steady is the way to go for you now.

 

[CountryLiftin]

well honestly Ive always drank a ton of milk, thats why I keep it skim. I love the taste of it. and yea usually about a gallon a day. Ive been trying to get a little more of it to be water. and its a good addition of protein although since its all from milk its not as effective I know. Hmmm, so cut carbs in morning? I cant really cut them at lunch because thats like all they feed us at school lol. and I lift at 5. and I could try backing off the milk if you think it wouldnt hurt my muscle mass.

 

[RAHHH]

I agree aRECOMP and maybe a few leam lbs gained. if your a sprinter.
if not BULK BULK BULK heheheh

 

[CountryLiftin]

yea im thinkin about if i just wana diet for now and this hit a hard recomp stack or not. and yea im stil bulkin for now

 

[andrewcb]

dont know if its been said or not....cut the milk if you want to lose weight....simple sugar and sugar is what makes you fat....also pass on the pizza! watch myth busters the 1 guy adam lost a ton of weight from just cutting pizza out

 

[CountryLiftin]

Haha well that is my bulking diet right now, so when I switch that will be some of the first things to go haha. and milk has like 12 or 13 g sugar compared to like 30 up to 60 in sodas or juices. so, I can hit up some more water.