Paleo Diet

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  1. Don't worry about your 6:3 ratio if you're following strict paleo. The people that usually have to worry are those eating typical crap.

    I find whey to be no problem because it isn't acid causing like casein is and has very low incidence of allergy.

    Most people eating paleo forget to get the monounsaturated oils. I still like to shoot for 1/3 saturated, 1/3 poly, 1/3 mono. I use macadamia nuts to keep this balance. They are also basic on the PRAL scores.

    Just eat whole, unprocessed foods and supplement with fish oil. If you're trying lose bodyfat, keep fruits minimal and tubers to post workout. If you're maintaining, you can loosen it up a little. Always eat lots of veggies and greens. Eat when you're hungry and get obsessed with measuring food.


  2. Quote Originally Posted by pantherdude63 View Post
    I can honestly say I've never had a hard boiled egg lol looks like that'll change. It's amazing what you're willing to try for a diet. I never really cared for veggies until like 2 years ago. Then I'd eat a little every now and then, and I still hated salad. Now that I'm in college and have a great cafeteria that has basically everything available, all that has changed. It still blows my mind though that my fellow students would rather eat burger king even with all that available AND they're somehow lean (I guess the term would be skinny since they arent muscular) Damn genetics..
    bro those kids are young, everyone is skinny when they first come to college. next year you wont even recognize some of those girls. dudes grow a huge gut in a few years. remember them now and check their facebook pictures in a couple years. freshman 15 is now the freshman 50
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  3. Anton started talking to me about this diet a few weeks back and referred me to a website. I've done a bunch of reading and I don't think I'm going to jump in completly, but I am making some modifications to my current diet. I eat Go Lean every morning with nuts and protein, I'm also a big fan of WPI.
    But this has def made me look harder at my diet and my take on carbs all around. Good reading and thank you guys for posting your ideas!

  4. Carbs aren't bad, grains are. I have an athlete, a weightlifter, that trains 6x a week. He eats 95% paleo, always grain free. He eats several sweet potatoes a day along with a ton of raisins and fresh fruits. He needs to stay at 94 kg and he does.

    The paleo reason for fruits > grains is two fold. First, fruits don't cause acid production in the kidneys. Second, fruits have more nutrients per calorie than grains do.

    The reason the paleo community shies away from fruit has to do with the high sugar content of modern fruits. Too much fructose, even the natural kind, messes up lipids in the blood. The thing that I think is wrong about the paleo diet, is the fear that 3-5 pieces/servings of fruit will have this effect. At most, you're consuming 150g from carbs in a day from fruit. That's a lot of fruit. All the research done on fructose causing problems has been in huge doses of ONLY fructose at a time, usually 100g or more. If you sat down and ate 5-6 bananas, yeah, you might have some problems. But lets be serious here, fruit isn't easy to pound back. There will always be that one person who is the exception to the rule, but I still believe that fruit is just fine as long as you're getting enough protein and fats in the diet also.

  5. Quote Originally Posted by wearedbleedblue View Post
    Carbs aren't bad, grains are. I have an athlete, a weightlifter, that trains 6x a week. He eats 95% paleo, always grain free. He eats several sweet potatoes a day along with a ton of raisins and fresh fruits. He needs to stay at 94 kg and he does.

    The paleo reason for fruits > grains is two fold. First, fruits don't cause acid production in the kidneys. Second, fruits have more nutrients per calorie than grains do.

    The reason the paleo community shies away from fruit has to do with the high sugar content of modern fruits. Too much fructose, even the natural kind, messes up lipids in the blood. The thing that I think is wrong about the paleo diet, is the fear that 3-5 pieces/servings of fruit will have this effect. At most, you're consuming 150g from carbs in a day from fruit. That's a lot of fruit. All the research done on fructose causing problems has been in huge doses of ONLY fructose at a time, usually 100g or more. If you sat down and ate 5-6 bananas, yeah, you might have some problems. But lets be serious here, fruit isn't easy to pound back. There will always be that one person who is the exception to the rule, but I still believe that fruit is just fine as long as you're getting enough protein and fats in the diet also.
    what macro ratio do you keep your athlete at and what are his goals while on the diet?

    Also, does anybody schedule replenishment days similar to a ckd diet or do you tend to just stick with paleo 7X24?
    ~ Nothing can kill the Grimace!!


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  6. I eat a cheat meal once a week, usually a gluten free pizza and gluten free chocolate dome shared with my gf.

    I don't keep any solid macros with the athlete. I make sure he eats a 6-10oz portion of meat with each meal. He's in Australia now so he's eating a lot more lamb. I like him to get at least 2x as much volume of vegetables as the meat he eats with the meal. He goes through 1-2 avocados a day, 1-2 sweet potatoes, couple pieces of fruit, sometimes some wild rice. Cooks things in butter or olive/coconut oil. He eats 4-6 eggs a day on average. I allow him some dark chocolate until he's 2-3 weeks out of a competition.

    His goals are to maintain at 94kg while increasing his snatch and c&j. We don't use it as a "diet" per se, its his way of eating. He's been paleo compliant for about 10 months now. He's currently putting about 5kg a month on his total while doing the lifts 6x a week at varying percentages. After he competes at collegiate nationals next year we're going to reassess whether or not he'll make the move to 105kg. He's relatively tall for a lifter (6'1") so we're most likely going to try to bring him to 105 (about 235lbs) on a paleo + milk diet.

  7. Have any of you guys undertaken a serious lean bulk while on a Paleo diet? I'm an extreme fast-metabolism ectomorph and hardgainer and was getting all set to starting bulking again as I usually do (tons of protein, healthy fats, and complex carbs from grains, brown rice, whole wheat pasta, etc) when I came across some very convincing articles about the benefits of "going Paleo". My only reservations were that most advice seemed oriented towards people who were out of shape and mindlessly consuming the SAD (Standard American Diet). That's certainly not my case.

    I'm in excellent athletic condition from a strength/speed/power standpoint and eat very clean as is. I've never had any issues with the heavy grain consumption in my current diet and am generally in great health. In fact I am almost never sick and can't even remember the last time I had so much as a cold. I guess you could say there's nothing really wrong with my current situation other than that it's extremely difficult for me to add muscle mass.

    With that said, I was recently reading up on the Paleo diet and it looks like there's some convincing science behind it from a general health stand point. I'm tempted to try a Paleo+Dairy diet as, aside from the cutting out grains bit, it's basically how I eat now (tons of lean protein from natural/organic/grass-fed meat, lots of organic fruits/veggies, tons of organic milk, yogurt, kefit, etc very little processed foods).

    My only concern is that the only way I can ever bulk is to consume massive amounts of calories. My metabolism is forever in overdrive and being a naturally small-framed ecto to begin with my body is much happier shedding muscle than it is gaining it.

    To give you guys some perspective, I'm just over 5' 9" and weighted around 140 lbs when I started lifting. When my training was primarily focused on strength/power and heavy lifts I bulked up to around 175 lbs (without ever leaving my constant body fat range of 6% - 8%) over the course of several years. Now that I've been doing a lot more MMA, boxing, and super intensive full body training I'm down to 163 lbs again and looking for the healthiest possible way to gain 15 - 20 pounds of lean mass without sacrificing my athleticism (before anyone chimes in to tell me how crazy this goal is - yes, I realize it will take a year or more of dedicated eating, training, and proper rest).

    So my questions are:

    1. Has anyone successfully added significant lean muscle mass while adhering to a Paleo diet (or variant thereof)?

    2. For those who've tried various forms of Paleo diets (i.e Paleo+dairy, Paleo w/cheat days, etc) - which was most effective for you in terms of athletic performance and mass gain?

    3. What changes to your athletic performance, strength, energy levels, etc did you notice after making the Paleo shift?

    Thanks in advance for any useful replies.

  8. Without drugs it will take you 4-5 years to put on that much true lean mass. If you're going to try to do it paleo, eat lots of fruit and sweet potatoes in addition to the regular paleo faire.

  9. So I was looking for a product that would make eating and snacking 5-6 X day a little bit easier yet still match up to the paleo/low carb style of diet and I stumbled upon these MRP bars:

    http://questproteinbar.com/ingredients.html

    Ingredient profile looks solid for paleo just not sure were Chicory root fits in lol. Thoughts....

  10. Quote Originally Posted by prld2gr8ns View Post
    So I was looking for a product that would make eating and snacking 5-6 X day a little bit easier yet still match up to the paleo/low carb style of diet and I stumbled upon these MRP bars:

    http://questproteinbar.com/ingredients.html

    Ingredient profile looks solid for paleo just not sure were Chicory root fits in lol. Thoughts....
    there is a ad on the super human radio show for some free bars. I filled out the form a couple days ago and waiting for them to come in. Go to the site and order yours. No shipping fees either. Also not sure where chicory root falls but it looks like a fiber and from a green plant. I dont think they are grains. As for if the bar is paleo or not I think the splenda in the bar is what will make it non-paleo. FYI hard boiled eggs are a great paleo snack! and A LOT CHEAPER than protein bars
    PESCIENCE.COM

    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates

  11. Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    there is a ad on the super human radio show for some free bars. I filled out the form a couple days ago and waiting for them to come in. Go to the site and order yours. No shipping fees either. Also not sure where chicory root falls but it looks like a fiber and from a green plant. I dont think they are grains. As for if the bar is paleo or not I think the splenda in the bar is what will make it non-paleo. FYI hard boiled eggs are a great paleo snack! and A LOT CHEAPER than protein bars
    I like the way you think sir. Just don't won't to fix anymore eggs if I don't have too lol. I like the nutritional profile of the bars overall though, seems like a good match for a low carbesque diet. But you are right with the splenda making it not paleo

  12. I'm very interested in the paleo diet, but when i went to amazon to buy the book i noticed there were 2 different books by 2 different authors. 1 was called the paleo diet and the other was the paleo solution. Are they basically the same thing??

  13. Quote Originally Posted by vidapreta View Post
    I'm very interested in the paleo diet, but when i went to amazon to buy the book i noticed there were 2 different books by 2 different authors. 1 was called the paleo diet and the other was the paleo solution. Are they basically the same thing??
    you should get this book instead:

    http://primalblueprint.com/products/...Blueprint.html

    this guy rules
    BJJ = life

  14. Quote Originally Posted by AntonG42O View Post
    you should get this book instead:

    http://primalblueprint.com/products/...Blueprint.html

    this guy rules
    Are you trying to confuse me even more?

  15. Loren Cordain is the guy that does most of the research on Paleo. He also is the author of the book Paleo Diet for Athletes. That book and the book by Mark Sisson, The Primal Blueprint are the two I'd recommend.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys


  16. Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    Loren Cordain is the guy that does most of the research on Paleo. He also is the author of the book "Paleo Diet for Athletes." That book and the book by Mark Sisson, "The Primal Blueprint" are the two I'd recommend.
    Thank you for the reply. But if you needed to pick just 1 which would it be. For the typical reasons i want to keep most of my lean muscle but drop some bodyfat ect..ect..ect..

  17. Only because i'm going to buy one right now.

  18. in that case you should definitely go with the Primal Blueprint. the Paleo for atheletes is for geared more towards the endurance athelete looking to maximize athletic performance. Primal Blueprint will explain to you the full benefits of the diet and how all the food groups work, etc. get the Blueprint
    BJJ = life

  19. You can easily find an ebook of both.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys


  20. Quote Originally Posted by AntonG42O View Post
    in that case you should definitely go with the Primal Blueprint. the Paleo for atheletes is for geared more towards the endurance athelete looking to maximize athletic performance. Primal Blueprint will explain to you the full benefits of the diet and how all the food groups work, etc. get the Blueprint
    Excellent, Thank You Sir.

  21. Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    You can easily find an ebook of both.
    Yeah with my iphone kindle app the e-books are pretty damn convenient.

  22. Quote Originally Posted by vidapreta View Post
    Yeah with my iphone kindle app the e-books are pretty damn convenient.
    That sounded like a commercial. I have no affiliation with Apple, i just like their products.

  23. Also if you are ebook hunting, although I think many of the conclusions he draws are straight BS, Gary Taubs has 2 books that deal in high fat low carb eating and particularly fat loss.

    edit, and using a real ebook reader like a nook or kindle beat the hell out of an iphone

  24. Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post

    edit, and using a real ebook reader like a nook or kindle beat the hell out of an iphone
    Maybee so but it's all i got and when i need it, it's always in my pocket..

  25. Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    Also if you are ebook hunting, although I think many of the conclusions he draws are straight BS, Gary Taubs has 2 books that deal in high fat low carb eating and particularly fat loss.

    edit, and using a real ebook reader like a nook or kindle beat the hell out of an iphone
    I take it you didn't like the book?

    I know of Taubes but havent read his work yet. I was under the impression his books were more of a breakdown in laymans terms of a low carb diet. You will probably enjoy Protein Power much more, it is a way more scientific than anything else I have read so far
    PESCIENCE.COM

    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates

  26. Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    I take it you didn't like the book?

    I know of Taubes but havent read his work yet. I was under the impression his books were more of a breakdown in laymans terms of a low carb diet. You will probably enjoy Protein Power much more, it is a way more scientific than anything else I have read so far
    No, it still had valuable information, but some of his conclusions and reasoning is just plain silly. As the worst example, he spends a bit of time beating up on the medical establishment over calling heart disease an "epidemic". Its the cause of death of half the non-accidental deaths, I think that pretty well qualifies as an epidemic. He also beats into doctors for their attempts at a lower fat diet to help curb heart disease and how long that has gone on for without a significant change in heart disease rates without apparently realizing that for something like that which affects you at later ages you have to look at people who grew up with the different diet to see its effectiveness. You can't put someone on a changed diet for 2 years and expect to be able to reverse 30 years of arterial plaquing.

  27. Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    No, it still had valuable information, but some of his conclusions and reasoning is just plain silly. As the worst example, he spends a bit of time beating up on the medical establishment over calling heart disease an "epidemic". Its the cause of death of half the non-accidental deaths, I think that pretty well qualifies as an epidemic.
    Agree it has a epidemic especially in this country IMO

    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    He also beats into doctors for their attempts at a lower fat diet to help curb heart disease and how long that has gone on for without a significant change in heart disease rates without apparently realizing that for something like that which affects you at later ages you have to look at people who grew up with the different diet to see its effectiveness. You can't put someone on a changed diet for 2 years and expect to be able to reverse 30 years of arterial plaquing.
    What I think is insane is how doctors refuse to even consider dietary changes for things like high cholesterol or diabetes and they automatically prescribe meds and then suggest a low fat, low protein, high carb diet is what they need to do.

    If someone is insulin resistant how does it make sense to make the bulk of their diet carbs? Especially considering carbs arent essential?

    The USDA recomends 60% carbs, 25% fat and 15% protein. If excess insulin throughout the day leads to a greater risk of heart disease, diabetes, high blood pressure, gout, sleep apena, and so much more how does this diet make any sense?

    My mom went to the doctors and he told her she had fluid retention, high blood pressure, excess cholesterol and triglycerides and then came the plethora of medications. Another problem was she wasn't having enough bowl movements and food was sitting in her stomach and having acid reflux, so he tells her to eat more whole grain.. Why isn't a low carb diet suggested? Or probiotics to help restore bacteria?

    I explained to my mom insulin tells the kidneys to hold sat, which results in fluid retention, and excess insulin throughout the day causes an increase in the thickness and constriction of artery walls, combined with the fluid retention = high blood pressure. Excess insulin also stimulates extra production of cholesterol and trigs by the liver. I put her on a paleo type diet and 3 months later she is med free.

    Diet is definitely a option and is rarely even considered by medical professionals. Their first step is medications and is very understandable when you consider how much money big pharma makes and the amount of marketing they do and persuasion to doctors. Im not suggesting a conspiracy or anything to that extent but there is a relationship between the two.
    PESCIENCE.COM

    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates

  28. No, the doctors go to medication because people dont' follow dietary changes you give them, and the medications work. If they ate halfway decently to begin with they wouldnt be 40lbs over weight.

    And show where there is clinical evidence that "excess insulin throughout the day leads to a greater risk of heart disease", i'd like to see that.

  29. Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    No, the doctors go to medication because people dont' follow dietary changes you give them, and the medications work. If they ate halfway decently to begin with they wouldnt be 40lbs over weight.

    And show where there is clinical evidence that "excess insulin throughout the day leads to a greater risk of heart disease", i'd like to see that.
    Excess insulin leads to insulin resistance.

    Here is one I have on hand im sure I can find more if you want, BTW ever finish reading through the other studies I posted comparing low carb diet to others in regards to weight loss?

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17259501

    nsulin resistance as estimated by homeostasis model assessment predicts incident symptomatic cardiovascular disease in caucasian subjects from the general population: the Bruneck study.

    Bonora E, Kiechl S, Willeit J, Oberhollenzer F, Egger G, Meigs JB, Bonadonna RC, Muggeo M.

    Endocrinologia e Malattie del Metabolismo, Ospedale Maggiore, Piazzale Stefani 1, 37126 Verona, Italy. [email protected]
    Abstract

    OBJECTIVE: The purpose of this study was to evaluate whether insulin resistance is associated to cardiovascular disease (CVD) and to understand whether this association can be explained by traditional and novel CVD risk factors associated with this metabolic disorder.

    RESEARCH DESIGN AND METHODS: We examined a sample representative of the population of Bruneck, Italy (n = 919; aged 40-79 years). Insulin-resistant subjects were those with a score in the top quartile of the homeostasis model assessment (HOMA) for insulin resistance (HOMA-IR). Risk factors correlated with insulin resistance included BMI, A1C, HDL cholesterol, triglycerides, blood pressure, high-sensitivity C-reactive protein (hsCRP), fibrinogen, oxidized LDL, vascular cell adhesion molecule-1 (VCAM-1), and adiponectin. Subjects without CVD at baseline were followed up for 15 years for incident CVD, a composite end point including fatal and nonfatal myocardial infarction and stroke, transient ischemic attack, and any revascularization procedure.

    RESULTS: During follow-up, 118 subjects experienced a first symptomatic CVD event. Levels of HOMA-IR were higher at baseline among subjects who developed CVD (2.8) compared with those remaining free of CVD (2.5) (P < 0.05). Levels of HOMA-IR also were significantly correlated (P < 0.05) with most CVD risk factors we evaluated. In Cox proportional hazard models, insulin-resistant subjects had an age-, sex-, and smoking-adjusted 2.1-fold increased risk (95% CI 1.3-3.1) of incident symptomatic CVD relative to non-insulin-resistant subjects. After sequential adjustment for physical activity and classic risk factors (A1C, LDL cholesterol, and hypertension) as well as BMI, HDL cholesterol, triglycerides, and novel risk factors, including fibrinogen, oxidized LDL, hsCRP, VCAM-1, and adiponectin, the association between HOMA-IR and incident CVD remained significant and virtually unchanged (hazard ratio 2.2 [95% CI 1.4-3.6], P < 0.001).

    CONCLUSIONS: HOMA-estimated insulin resistance is associated with subsequent symptomatic CVD in the general population independently of all classic and several nontraditional risk factors. These data suggest that insulin resistance may be an important target to reduce CVD risk.
    Now I have said several times, I dont like to place too much weight on studies as concrete evidence of anything, as you know there are no facts in science and nothing can really be proven only theorized until someone challenges it. But I think the excerpt below to be pretty much true and not really ground breaking that it would need "clinical trials" to establish, although I am sure there are some.

    As we age, we lose our ability to utilize insulin to effectively drive blood glucose into energy-producing cells. As glucose levels rise in the blood, the pancreas compensates by producing more insulin. As “insulin resistance” worsens, even more insulin is secreted in attempt to restore glucose control. Excess insulin is associated with a significantly greater risk of heart disease
    And for the excuse of the doctors not suggesting a low carb diet because people wont follow is insane because they do suggest a diet. My moms doctor told her she needs to eat 60% carbs, that is a dietary suggestion that many doctors suggest to patients.

    As to if "they ate halfway decent they wouldn't be overweight".. lets looks at the USDA recommendations

    60% carbs, 25% fat and 15% protein

    So 2k calorie diet would be:

    300g carbs, 55g fat, 75g protein How would this diet not lead to insulin resistance? So 3 meals a day it would be 100g carb, 18g fat/ 25g protein.. how is this healthy at all? Even at maintenance calories I would bet the person eating this would be classified as one of those " "skinny fat guys"
    PESCIENCE.COM

    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates
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