the paleo diet

[bulltest01]

so i have been looking into this diet (the paleo diet) it is the diet of our ancestors mostly lean meats wild game nuts and berrys and i wanted to see if anyone had any thoughts or experience with it.

 

[wrkn4bigrmusles]

i know lots of people that love it. and yea its pretty simple if you stick with the logic of game meat and nuts and berrys.

but im a crossfit follower and paleo and zone diets are big in this world

 

[drvinnybombat]

Yeah, some crosfitters are into that. I actually notice a difference on the zone, or a zone-ish diet. I actually feel better. Whoever decided that that would be the unofficial diet of crossfit was a genius, because it fit perfectly. Paleo, on the other hand, seems like a bunch of hippie bulls***.

I think the whole paleo lifestyle is ridiculous. We simply can't live that way anymore. There's a difference between not eating processed food or dairy and becoming a cult follower. This quickly spirals into only working out 20 minutes twice per week because that what our ancestors did, not being able to eat out anywhere, and general insanity.

BTW, our ancestors ate one a day if they were lucky, walked like 50 miles a week at times, and dies at 19.

 

[bulltest01]

the one thing that is true is that it is very hard to eat out on the paleo diet. the statement that they live to be 19 the only reason that would be is they were killed by other tribes or animals recent anthropological studies have shown that people in the paleolithic period lived to be as old as ninety five and the majority lived to late seventies and that is with no medical assistance. I live in a backwoods area and often hunt and fish for food so not that out of the ordinary for me. i just haven't committed to the diet yet. i was just wondering if anyone had any experience with it or friends that have

 

[Gutterpump]

I'm trying to come up with a paleo-type CKD bulking diet right now. But mostly just trying to keep dairy and grains away. I love keto-diets... always feel the best on them, but I would prefer to keep away grains and processed foods simply for health reasons.

I'm willing to be flexible on some things like on carb ups for example, I just don't know how possible it is to do a good carb up simply on fruits, so I'm thinking of adding in a low GI, low allergy factor grain like quinoa, or maybe just some agave syrop / honey and sugary fruits.

There's a decent thread over on T-nation about this.

 

[AntonG42O]

oh dude if you think paleo is impossible/not good you havent done anyyyyy research. ive been eating paleo for 3 months now and ive never felt better/been in better shape. Becoming a cult follower? where did you see that? its all about giving your body the food its built to digest instead of inflammatory foods that cause all sorts of problems over time. this body isnt designed to eat microwaveable crap and sit on your a$$ all day. its all about eating intelligently rather than stuffing yourself with oats and other bodybuilding $hit and doing diverse exercise so you can actually use your muscles for something other than lifting and have a good range of motion in your limbs. you call it hippie bull#### fine, i call what everyone else is doing modern nonsense.

its not that crazy of a diet, you just eliminate grains, sugars and dairy. grains have no nutritional value besides spiking your blood sugar and are packed with anti-nutrients. theres no quality dairy, its all pasteurized steroided crap. sugars i dont think i need to explain.

if you look around there is tons of anthropological evidence that the paleolithic human, which is us, is built to eat this diet. ever since ive switched over; ive lost my seasonal allergies, test has gone way up, recovery is much faster, im super lean (no more than 6% bf), i dont burn in the sun anymore or need sunblock, sleep better/wake up fresher, go to sleep easier, have tons more energy (power through 3 mma/bjj sessions a day sometimes and still have energy), dont feel any bloat/constipation/runs/farts/anything. my body simply functions better and anytime i eat grains i feel like such sh#t that it reminds me why this diet is so good for me.

all my carbs come from fruits and vegetables. most fruit have plenty of glucose to restore muscle glycogen and fructose to replenish liver glycogen. beef/eggs/fish have the same exact insulin response without the spike in blood sugar that starchy carbs provide. there is simply no evidence of any purpose in eating any carbs besides fruit and vegetables.

 

[Rodja]

oh dude if you think paleo is impossible/not good you havent done anyyyyy research. ive been eating paleo for 3 months now and ive never felt better/been in better shape. Becoming a cult follower? where did you see that? its all about giving your body the food its built to digest instead of inflammatory foods that cause all sorts of problems over time. this body isnt designed to eat microwaveable crap and sit on your a$$ all day. its all about eating intelligently rather than stuffing yourself with oats and other bodybuilding $hit and doing diverse exercise so you can actually use your muscles for something other than lifting and have a good range of motion in your limbs. you call it hippie bull#### fine, i call what everyone else is doing modern nonsense.

its not that crazy of a diet, you just eliminate grains, sugars and dairy. grains have no nutritional value besides spiking your blood sugar and are packed with anti-nutrients. theres no quality dairy, its all pasteurized steroided crap. sugars i dont think i need to explain.

if you look around there is tons of anthropological evidence that the paleolithic human, which is us, is built to eat this diet. ever since ive switched over; ive lost my seasonal allergies, test has gone way up, recovery is much faster, im super lean (no more than 6% bf), i dont burn in the sun anymore or need sunblock, sleep better/wake up fresher, go to sleep easier, have tons more energy (power through 3 mma/bjj sessions a day sometimes and still have energy), dont feel any bloat/constipation/runs/farts/anything. my body simply functions better and anytime i eat grains i feel like such sh#t that it reminds me why this diet is so good for me.

all my carbs come from fruits and vegetables. most fruit have plenty of glucose to restore muscle glycogen and fructose to replenish liver glycogen. beef/eggs/fish have the same exact insulin response without the spike in blood sugar that starchy carbs provide. there is simply no evidence of any purpose in eating any carbs besides fruit and vegetables.

Have you read the Paleo for Athletes book?

 

[AntonG42O]

Have you read the Paleo for Athletes book?

haha as a matter of fact i have. i really like the part where he talks about that reporter whos been living with tribes on and off for 20 years. some tribes would chase/hunt for 20-30 miles and rest the next day and some would hunt with low intensity every day.

i feel like the book justifies using processed carbs/grains for a very competitive endurance athlete. it justifies using those carbs/sugars to reup the muscle glycogen for the next session. didnt the research done about replenishing glycogen conclude that it would take up to 300-500 grams to replenish completely? i feel like only endurance athletes fully deplete their glycogen. much of our weight training/mma/bjj gets fueled with fat oxidation along with glycogen? i put a question mark because you would know better than i would.

using myself as an example. i dont feel depleted at all using only fruit and vegetables. sunday i lifted, last night i did heavy high rep squats, today im going to muay thai for 2 hours (cant roll = new tattoo), tomorow im playing flag football for 2 hours, thursday whatever next etc. i never really feel tired from last nights workout, performance doesnt suffer. post workout with protein i eat fruit with a 50/50 fructose to glucose ratio and it really seems to be doing the job. i feel so much better and leaner too.

 

[Rodja]

haha as a matter of fact i have. i really like the part where he talks about that reporter whos been living with tribes on and off for 20 years. some tribes would chase/hunt for 20-30 miles and rest the next day and some would hunt with low intensity every day.

i feel like the book justifies using processed carbs/grains for a very competitive endurance athlete. it justifies using those carbs/sugars to reup the muscle glycogen for the next session. didnt the research done about replenishing glycogen conclude that it would take up to 300-500 grams to replenish completely? i feel like only endurance athletes fully deplete their glycogen. much of our weight training/mma/bjj gets fueled with fat oxidation along with glycogen? i put a question mark because you would know better than i would.

using myself as an example. i dont feel depleted at all using only fruit and vegetables. sunday i lifted, last night i did heavy high rep squats, today im going to muay thai for 2 hours (cant roll = new tattoo), tomorow im playing flag football for 2 hours, thursday whatever next etc. i never really feel tired from last nights workout, performance doesnt suffer. post workout with protein i eat fruit with a 50/50 fructose to glucose ratio and it really seems to be doing the job. i feel so much better and leaner too.

Weight training and MMA both rely heavily on glyogen/carbs. Anything of high-intensity drains the glycogen reserves, but, contrary to popular belief, they won't deplete them. However, recovery is a different beast as it is an ongoing process (I won't start to talk about EPOC's effect as it will take a mini-dissertation to really explain how much it alters recovery/substrate).

Are you a hobbyist trainer or a competitive trainer?

 

[Gutterpump]

theres no quality dairy, its all pasteurized steroided crap..

Unpasteurized, natural goat milk FTW :bigok:
Closest thing to mothers milk..

Expensive as hell to order it, but worthwhile I think. Might add this as well to the diet. Goat milk, goat cheese, greek yogurt, are all pretty good additions to make this diet a bit better for bodybuilders.

 

[Rodja]

Unpasteurized, natural goat milk FTW :bigok:
Closest thing to mothers milk..

Expensive as hell to order it, but worthwhile I think. Might add this as well to the diet. Goat milk, goat cheese, greek yogurt, are all pretty good additions to make this diet a bit better for bodybuilders.

Still has lactose, though. That's the main problem.

 

[AntonG42O]

Weight training and MMA both rely heavily on glyogen/carbs. Anything of high-intensity drains the glycogen reserves, but, contrary to popular belief, they won't deplete them. However, recovery is a different beast as it is an ongoing process (I won't start to talk about EPOC's effect as it will take a mini-dissertation to really explain how much it alters recovery/substrate).

Are you a hobbyist trainer or a competitive trainer?

well i compete in grappling tournaments but since ive been doing a lot of standup recently i might also do an amateur mma fight later on down the road.

 

[Rodja]

well i compete in grappling tournaments but since ive been doing a lot of standup recently i might also do an amateur mma fight later on down the road.

The GPP is actually the biggest drain on energy levels, IMO. At this point, I highly recommend some sort of complex carbs in conjunction with fruits. When I was training seriously for competing and staying in-shape year-round, 2-a-days 4-5x/week are the norm. There's no way to train for 3-5, 5-minute rounds without a good chunk of carbs centered around post-training.

 

[AntonG42O]

The GPP is actually the biggest drain on energy levels, IMO. At this point, I highly recommend some sort of complex carbs in conjunction with fruits. When I was training seriously for competing and staying in-shape year-round, 2-a-days 4-5x/week are the norm. There's no way to train for 3-5, 5-minute rounds without a good chunk of carbs centered around post-training.

well whats the complex carb with the least amt of damage? im guessing potato/sweet potato would be the only paleo semi-approved? i just really dont wanna do grains or go back to dextrose/corn starch. i tried making some sweet potatoes before and i wasnt impressed.

 

[Rodja]

well whats the complex carb with the least amt of damage? im guessing potato/sweet potato would be the only paleo semi-approved? i just really dont wanna do grains or go back to dextrose/corn starch. i tried making some sweet potatoes before and i wasnt impressed.

I use organic Basmati or Jasmine rice and red potatoes. Potatoes are alkalinic and the PRAL of those rices is very low (~1.5 per 100 dry grams).

 

[AntonG42O]

I use organic Basmati or Jasmine rice and red potatoes. Potatoes are alkalinic and the PRAL of those rices is very low (~1.5 per 100 dry grams).

how do you make red potatoes? i dont like to use the oven for anything, it takes forever. i get home so late from work/training. maybe i can fry them real quick after practice. is that when you make them or do you bring already made carbs with you to training?

 

[SouthernCharm]

how do you make red potatoes? i dont like to use the oven for anything, it takes forever. i get home so late from work/training. maybe i can fry them real quick after practice. is that when you make them or do you bring already made carbs with you to training?

Dude boil em for a couple of minutes, take em out, cut em up and fry them in a pan. Add some black and red pepper, garlic, maybe some onions powder or fresh chopped onions to the sautee. If you cook em right, they won't get soggy and will keep in containers fairly long.

 

[Rodja]

how do you make red potatoes? i dont like to use the oven for anything, it takes forever. i get home so late from work/training. maybe i can fry them real quick after practice. is that when you make them or do you bring already made carbs with you to training?

I boil them and mash them with coconut milk, garlic, salt, pepper, and Italian seasonings.

 

[Gutterpump]

Still has lactose, though. That's the main problem.

Not a big prob. I used to think I was lactose intolerant, but goat cheese and goats milk don't bother me at all. Plus you can still take lactase with them to be safe, not a big prob if people normally take enzymes with their meals, as I do with each one of mine. It's a much tastier and healthier way to get casein into the diet imo, than other methods. It's nothing to do with the Paleo diet, just something I plan on adding into a modified paleo diet during an upcoming bulk along with Greek yogurt.

 

[Tone]

I love the paleo diet, in fact in my clinic that is what we teach the majority of the people on our wellness programs. I am studying under Dr. James Chestnut who is a chiropractor but he has lectures of Eat Well, Move Well, Think Well..... Very good stuff, and honestly I feel great since I have been eating this way.... Its not as hard as you think once you get used to it!!!!! I don't do it all the time... but about 75% of what I eat is either Fruits, Vegetables, or Lean Meat (all organic if possible)....

 

[Gutterpump]

Why the need for only lean meat though on this diet? If carbs are kept low enough, fat is your friend, especially for the extra calories needed.

 

[Tone]

Why the need for only lean meat though on this diet? If carbs are kept low enough, fat is your friend, especially for the extra calories needed.

You can eat fats, its basically saying NO grains or dairy...

 

[Rodja]

Why the need for only lean meat though on this diet? If carbs are kept low enough, fat is your friend, especially for the extra calories needed.

There isn't a need for lean meats. In fact, chicken thighs, ground sirloin, and whole eggs are my main sources of protein on this diet.

 

[AntonG42O]

There isn't a need for lean meats. In fact, chicken thighs, ground sirloin, and whole eggs are my main sources of protein on this diet.

oooh yeah ground steak, ive been getting grass fed ground chuck at whole foods for 6.99, awesome deal. you ever mess around with wild caught canned salmon?

 

[Rodja]

oooh yeah ground steak, ive been getting grass fed ground chuck at whole foods for 6.99, awesome deal. you ever mess around with wild caught canned salmon?

Not a big fan of canned salmon. I prefer to get a big ass filet and blacken it.

 

[AntonG42O]

Not a big fan of canned salmon. I prefer to get a big ass filet and blacken it.

oh yeah fresh tastes way better but fresh wild caught is at least $15 or more a pound around here. for cans i can pay 2.5 for a half pound and like $5 for 17.5oz

 

[Rodja]

oh yeah fresh tastes way better but fresh wild caught is at least $15 or more a pound around here. for cans i can pay 2.5 for a half pound and like $5 for 17.5oz

Damn, it's only around $9/lb here.

 

[Gutterpump]

There isn't a need for lean meats. In fact, chicken thighs, ground sirloin, and whole eggs are my main sources of protein on this diet.

Yeah that's what I was thinking. I just kept reading about paleo people recommending mostly game meat and lean meat. I was figuring it was more of an optional thing by people who want to eat more traditionally.

In ketosis, you need the extra fat though, especially when trying to gain. I've stocked up on ground beef, beef cuts of all sorts, chicken and whole eggs, but I'm still eating bacon and such.

 

[Gutterpump]

Oh btw, someone asked me where to get raw milk (raw goats milk, cheese, etc). You have to find a good farm that offers pickup, delivery, or distributes to your area.

http://www.realmilk.com/where1.html

 

[AntonG42O]

Yeah that's what I was thinking. I just kept reading about paleo people recommending mostly game meat and lean meat. I was figuring it was more of an optional thing by people who want to eat more traditionally.

In ketosis, you need the extra fat though, especially when trying to gain. I've stocked up on ground beef, beef cuts of all sorts, chicken and whole eggs, but I'm still eating bacon and such.

if you can get grass fed beef then a fatty cut is good. some paleo ppl reccomend game or lean because of all the problems with grain raised beef. also dont forget about wild caught salmon, either fresh or canned.

 

[timmmah]

FYI Most cattle is fed corn nowadays, the combination of the corn diet along with overcrowding had caused outbreaks of ecol i bacteria on the meat. With a few ammonia baths however, the meat is deemed safe.

Go Grass Fed!

Anton, why not go farmed salmon? It's got a much higher fat content, it's cheaper, and is lower in pollutants like mercury.

 

[AntonG42O]

FYI Most cattle is fed corn nowadays, the combination of the corn diet along with overcrowding had caused outbreaks of ecol i bacteria on the meat. With a few ammonia baths however, the meat is deemed safe.

Go Grass Fed!

Anton, why not go farmed salmon? It's got a much higher fat content, it's cheaper, and is lower in pollutants like mercury.

check this out:

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-me-salmon9dec09,0,2475812.story

once again it goes back to omega 3 to omega 6 ratio. salmon contains omega 3 because of what they eat in the wild, the farm raised has significantly less omega 3 and more 6. farmed raised also has dioxins, PCBs, fire retardants, pesticides, antibiotics, copper sulfate (anti-algae) and canthaxanthin (a dye associated with retinal damage used to make gray farmed fish various shades of “wild” pink).

the cans arent that bad, only $2.50 for small or $5 for large. ill take the mercury over all that other crap farms put in the feed/nets.

 

[timmmah]

Wow that sucks..

 

[Tone]

check this out:

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-me-salmon9dec09,0,2475812.story

once again it goes back to omega 3 to omega 6 ratio. salmon contains omega 3 because of what they eat in the wild, the farm raised has significantly less omega 3 and more 6. farmed raised also has dioxins, PCBs, fire retardants, pesticides, antibiotics, copper sulfate (anti-algae) and canthaxanthin (a dye associated with retinal damage used to make gray farmed fish various shades of “wild” pink).

the cans arent that bad, only $2.50 for small or $5 for large. ill take the mercury over all that other crap farms put in the feed/nets.

Good point, you can still supplement your omega 3s... I like wild best, that is for sure.

 

[Tone]

FYI Most cattle is fed corn nowadays, the combination of the corn diet along with overcrowding had caused outbreaks of ecol i bacteria on the meat. With a few ammonia baths however, the meat is deemed safe.

Go Grass Fed!

Anton, why not go farmed salmon? It's got a much higher fat content, it's cheaper, and is lower in pollutants like mercury.

Yes, most cattle is grain fed. cows die when they eat grain, they have a hard time digesting it, and there is a lot of bacteria in there stomachs, thats why they pump them full of anti biotics.... so if you get grain fed you are also eating all of the herbicides and pesticides sprayed on the grains too...

If you can find grass fed, non hormonal beef it is far superior to any other kinds, that goes for chickens as well.... the beauty in eating things like deer, and buffalo is that most of the time you are getting free ranged meat.