SICK of hearing people bash saturated fat!

[planetfuzz]

I am so tired of hearing people refer to nuts and olive oil as "good fats". All fats are good. There is only one "bad fat", TRANS FAT. It isn't just bad, it's horrible.

Saturated fats are one of the most healthy and essential fats out there. Humans have been eating copious amount of saturated fat since we could hold a spear and now all of a sudden it clogs arteries?? Ugh.

Check out these links, they are some of many that debunk the myths you have been told by the vegetable oil industry your entire life. Humans have never been this fat, EVER. We have been eating animal fats for all of time. We HAVE NOT been eating skittles, cokes, and large fries deep fried in rancid fat.

Thoughts?

WAPF: Know Your Fats

Proven Health Benefits of Saturated Fats

The Benefits of Saturated Fats - Share The Wealth

 

[jakellpet]

welcome back fuzzy.

You sound like Omen - he was big on pure cholesterol. fat and protein diet.

 

[DAdams91982]

I am so tired of hearing people refer to nuts and olive oil as "good fats". All fats are good. There is only one "bad fat", TRANS FAT. It isn't just bad, it's horrible.

Saturated fats are one of the most healthy and essential fats out there. Humans have been eating copious amount of saturated fat since we could hold a spear and now all of a sudden it clogs arteries?? Ugh.

Check out these links, they are some of many that debunk the myths you have been told by the vegetable oil industry your entire life. Humans have never been this fat, EVER. We have been eating animal fats for all of time. We HAVE NOT been eating skittles, cokes, and large fries deep fried in rancid fat.

Thoughts?

WAPF: Know Your Fats

Proven Health Benefits of Saturated Fats

The Benefits of Saturated Fats - Share The Wealth

I agree and disagree.. different saturated fats hold differing values to nutrition. Such as coconut oil, that has a MCT saturated fat that reduce LDL, raises HDL, and is the building blocks for testosterone and other various hormones. Now go wring out a cheeseburger and drink the grease, it will be a different story. While I think they do have a bad wrap over all, they arent all sunshine and rainbows.

 

[Resolve]

Sat Fat does get a bad wrap, but Adams definitely has a point. EVCO, Palm Oil, Raw Milk Dairy can all be beneficial. But I wouldn't go out and stock up on 73% Ground Beef (except maybe Grass Fed, but even that's iffy). Just like with any other food - quality counts.

But I know what you're saying. I'm in grad school, and I've been reading up on the effects of different diets on longevity and their effects on a molecular level, and it's quite frustrating. A lab will claim their mice are on a "high fat" diet, (which really translates to about 15% Fat usually, 5% Prot and 80% Carbs), and that the diet causes any number of health issues. It drives me up a wall that so many scientists are overlooking the interaction of the high carbs with the fat, but still making correlations from their mice models to us.

 

[planetfuzz]

I agree and disagree.. different saturated fats hold differing values to nutrition. Such as coconut oil, that has a MCT saturated fat that reduce LDL, raises HDL, and is the building blocks for testosterone and other various hormones. Now go wring out a cheeseburger and drink the grease, it will be a different story. While I think they do have a bad wrap over all, they arent all sunshine and rainbows.

Well, coconut oil is actually the most saturated fat of all of them. It is up around 92% saturated. Even lard is only about half saturated, the rest is monounsaturated. Saturated fat isn't bad. I eat cream, butter, lard, tallow, bacon, all of it! I weighed 165 when I was eating a low fat high carb diet. I now weigh 150 and I still have my muscle, I'm just cut. I cram about as much healthy wholesome fat as I can into my diet.

The grease from a McDonald's cheeseburger....not too sure about that one. Get me some hormone free organic ground beef, fill up my cup!

welcome back fuzzy.

You sound like Omen - he was big on pure cholesterol. fat and protein diet.

Hey man, good to be back. Haha, ah yes. Good old Omen.

Sat Fat does get a bad wrap, but Adams definitely has a point. EVCO, Palm Oil, Raw Milk Dairy can all be beneficial. But I wouldn't go out and stock up on 73% Ground Beef (except maybe Grass Fed, but even that's iffy). Just like with any other food - quality counts.

But I know what you're saying. I'm in grad school, and I've been reading up on the effects of different diets on longevity and their effects on a molecular level, and it's quite frustrating. A lab will claim their mice are on a "high fat" diet, (which really translates to about 15% Fat usually, 5% Prot and 80% Carbs), and that the diet causes any number of health issues. It drives me up a wall that so many scientists are overlooking the interaction of the high carbs with the fat, but still making correlations from their mice models to us.

That is interesting. I am not quite the scientist but it is similar to Super Size Me. He attributed all of the side effects to massive amounts of fat, when it was most likely the large coke, the large fries, and the bun. That is what kills me. You look up any study about saturated fat and it says something similar to "subjects on a high fat diet". How many carbs were they eating, what kind of saturated fat? Hot dogs or grass fed organic beef? What is their activity level? Health history? There are so many variables. FAT DOESN'T GIVE YOU DIABETES.

Let's look at the diet of an average native american several hundred years ago. Early settlers commented on the amazing bone structure and health of the native people. We all know that when they killed a buffalo they would eat ALL of it. Their diet was full of saturated fats. One thing they were not eating were Big Gulps and processed garbage.

Guts and Grease: The Diet of a Native American

I would go as far as to say saturated fat is HARMLESS. They have lots of calories but leave you satiated for a longer time, don't spike blood sugar, and give you that FULL feeling. Mother's milk is LOADED with saturated fat and cholesterol. I don't think Mother Nature got it wrong.

 

[DAdams91982]

Well, coconut oil is actually the most saturated fat of all of them. It is up around 92% saturated. Even lard is only about half saturated, the rest is monounsaturated. Saturated fat isn't bad. I eat cream, butter, lard, tallow, bacon, all of it!

The grease from a McDonald's cheeseburger....not too sure about that one. Get me some hormone free organic ground beef, fill up my cup!



Hey man, good to be back. Haha, ah yes. Good old Omen.




That is interesting. I am not quite the scientist but it is similar to Super Size Me. He attributed all of the side effects to massive amounts of fat, when it was most likely the large coke, the large fries, and the bun. High fat diets are harmless. The problem occurs with sugar!

Let's look at the diet of an average native american several hundred years ago. Early settlers commented on the amazing bones structure and health of the native people. We all know that when they killed a buffalo they would eat ALL of it. Their diet was full of saturated fats. One thing they were not eating were Big Gulps.

I would go as far as to say saturated fat is HARMLESS. They have lots of calories but leave you satiated for a longer time, don't spike blood sugar, and give you that FULL feeling. Mother's milk is LOADED with saturated fat and cholesterol. I don't think Mother Nature got it wrong.

Like I said.. not all saturated fats are created equal. Why is coconut oil better than beef grease? Check into medium chain triglycerides. Sure they get a bad wrap... but the way you are painting them isn't the whole story either.

A comparison of medium-chain and long-chain triglycerides in surgical patients.
Z M Jiang, S Y Zhang, X R Wang, N F Yang, Y Zhu, and D Wilmore
Department of Surgery, Peking Union Medical College Hospital, Beijing, China.
Abstract
Available lipid emulsions made from soybean or safflower oil are classified as long-chain triglycerides (LCT). In contrast, medium-chain triglyceride (MCT) emulsions have different physical properties and are metabolized by other biochemical pathways. To compare the differences between these two fat emulsions, the authors studied 12 surgical patients and 6 volunteers. These subjects were randomly assigned to receive parenteral nutrition with MCT or LCT emulsion. Measurement of arterial and venous concentration differences across the forearm demonstrated that muscle utilization was significantly improved with MCT administration. There was also a trend toward improved nitrogen balance in the MCT group, and less weight loss in the postoperative period also was observed in this group. During the fat clearance test, the serum ketone concentrations were significantly higher in the MCT than the LCT group. The improvement in nitrogen retention may be associated with increasing ketone and insulin levels. Fat emulsions containing 50% MCT are safe for use in parenteral nutrition and may provide an alternate fuel that improves protein metabolism.

 

[planetfuzz]

Like I said.. not all saturated fats are created equal. Why is coconut oil better than beef grease? Check into medium chain triglycerides. Sure they get a bad wrap... but the way you are painting them isn't the whole story either.

I love my MCT's! Great before a work out and I always eat several spoonfuls of coconut oil before bed. Keeps those hunger pains away! The whole story is if people ate real whole food, obesity wouldn't be an issue.

I am not big on "studies". There are so many variables. Besides, the fat in that study was safflower and soybean oil, which are crap. Those fats become rancid easily and must be highly processed to get to the oil form. Coconut oil is not better than beef grease, nuts are not better than coconut oil. All fats, except trans fats and processed oils such as soybean oil, have a place in a healthy balanced diet.

 

[DAdams91982]

I love my MCT's! Great before a work out and I always eat several spoonfuls of coconut oil before bed. Keeps those hunger pains away! The whole story is if people ate real whole food, obesity wouldn't be an issue.

I am not big on "studies". There are so many variables. Besides, the fat in that study was safflower and soybean oil, which are crap. Those fats become rancid easily and must be highly processed to get to the oil form. Coconut oil is not better than beef grease, nuts are not better than coconut oil. All fats, except trans fats and processed oils such as soybean oil, have a place in a healthy balanced diet.

Agreed. There is your key argument... in a healthy balanced diet. Trans fats are all but eradicated in today's society, and yet people are still getting obese. Everything is terrible when not in moderation. Saturated fats are at the top of the list though for a reason. Arteriosclerosis being the top reason.

 

[planetfuzz]

Agreed. There is your key argument... in a healthy balanced diet. Trans fats are all but eradicated in today's society, and yet people are still getting obese. Everything is terrible when not in moderation. Saturated fats are at the top of the list though for a reason. Arteriosclerosis being the top reason.

Trans fats are eradicated? That could not be farther from the truth. They are everywhere. They are even in gum. I can go to the store right now and buy a brick of trans fat which has a big label on the front that says "low in cholesterol and saturated fat" and "heart healthy". Even if they were, people are obese because America is addicted to sugar. FAT is not to blame at all. Saturated fat DOES NOT clog arteries. High insulin levels damanges arterial walls, cholesterol which is the bodies way of repairing things, gets blamed. You walk in a grocery store, you don't see an over abundance of saturated fat. You see high fructose corn syrup, enriched flour, sugar, corn syrup, and the list goes on.

Low good cholesterol is a major cause of heart disease. Butter raises bad cholesterol yes, but it also raises good cholesterol more. That's a net gain in heart health. Check out those links I posted originally. It makes so much sense.

 

[DAdams91982]

Trans fats are eradicated? That could not be farther from the truth. They are everywhere. They are even in gum. I can go to the store right now and buy a brick of trans fat which has a big label on the front that says "low in cholesterol and saturated fat" and "heart healthy". Even if they were, people are obese because America is addicted to sugar. FAT is not to blame at all. Saturated fat DOES NOT clog arteries. High insulin levels damanges arterial walls, cholesterol which is the bodies way of repairing things, gets blamed. You walk in a grocery store, you don't see an over abundance of saturated fat. You see high fructose corn syrup, enriched flour, sugar, corn syrup, and the list goes on.

Low good cholesterol is a major cause of heart disease. Butter raises bad cholesterol yes, but it also raises good cholesterol more. That's a net gain in heart health. Check out those links I posted originally. It makes so much sense.

First check into NJ and NY transfats legislation along with multiple other states as relegated to schools.

Next provide me some studies showing your data. You have provided nothing but people writing articles. Dont get me wrong, there is plenty of great information in them. BUT, you know I can pull study after study relegating heart disease to saturated fats. But you do not believe in studies... so where do we stand? If studies are not a viable source of data, what makes those articles Gospel, or more importantly, PlanetFuzz Gospel? There is nothing but conjecture here, and no real data... I would refer to controlled studies, but alas...

 

[planetfuzz]

First check into NJ and NY transfats legislation along with multiple other states as relegated to schools.

Next provide me some studies showing your data. You have provided nothing but people writing articles. Dont get me wrong, there is plenty of great information in them. BUT, you know I can pull study after study relegating heart disease to saturated fats. But you do not believe in studies... so where do we stand? If studies are not a viable source of data, what makes those articles Gospel, or more importantly, PlanetFuzz Gospel? There is nothing but conjecture here, and no real data... I would refer to controlled studies, but alas...

I see your point. I am sorry if I come across as stubborn. Studies now a days just don't move me much. There are 100's of study's saying saturated fat is bad for you. Many of them are funded by companies who make shortening or other oils. It is all about money. Just look at the food pyramid. 7-10 servings of bread a day?? Even a study showing the benefits of saturated fats would be skewed. There are too many variables. You just gotta eat how you want and to each his own.

I think when it comes down to it, people like you and me are healthier than 99% of Americans regardless of whether we eat saturated fat. I choose to eat like humans have eaten for the past 10,000 years. Saturated fat enhances my life. Even if it was bad for me, I would still eat them. I am a culinary student so you can see where my love for them lies. Without saturated fat, there is no flavor.

The French eat rich and heavy diets of cream, butter, and pates. They have a heart disease rate of 150,000 out of 1,000,000. We are 300,000. That isn't a study, it's statistics.

Like I said though, when it comes to healthy people like us, you are kind of splitting hairs. I enjoyed the debate.

 

[DAdams91982]

I see your point. I am sorry if I come across as stubborn. Studies now a days just don't move me much. There are 100's of study's saying saturated fat is bad for you. Many of them are funded by companies who make shortening or other oils. It is all about money. Just look at the food pyramid. 7-10 servings of bread a day?? Even a study showing the benefits of saturated fats would be skewed. There are too many variables. You just gotta eat how you want and to each his own.

I think when it comes down to it, people like you and me are healthier than 99% of Americans regardless of whether we eat saturated fat. I choose to eat like humans have eaten for the past 10,000 years. Saturated fat enhances my life. Even if it was bad for me, I would still eat them. I am a culinary student so you can see where my love for them lies. Without saturated fat, there is no flavor.

The French eat rich and heavy diets of cream, butter, and pates. They have a heart disease rate of 150,000 out of 1,000,000. We are 300,000. That isn't a study, it's statistics.

Like I said though, when it comes to healthy people like us, you are kind of splitting hairs. I enjoyed the debate.

Naturally... good debate is always great.

Like I said, i am not trying to take away from Saturated fats... they are a requirement in every diet. Dairy, certain oils, etc. are extremely healthy for you. I think we both agree then, it is all about balance. But I do concede that normal everyday saturated fats get a black eye for no reason.

Now if you go eating a quadruple whopper, then you have other issues than saturated fats.

 

[planetfuzz]

Naturally... good debate is always great.

Like I said, i am not trying to take away from Saturated fats... they are a requirement in every diet. Dairy, certain oils, etc. are extremely healthy for you. I think we both agree then, it is all about balance. But I do concede that normal everyday saturated fats get a black eye for no reason.

Now if you go eating a quadruple whopper, then you have other issues than saturated fats.

Haha, yes that is true. It just kills me when I see a "health" food at the store that is pretty much HFCS and enriched flour and there is a big thing on the front that says it's heart healthy and low in fat. Real health food doesn't make health claims. It is just unfortunate because lots of people are uneducated and food companies know this.

 

[jakellpet]

I see all this 97% Fat Free or 99% Fat Free on a lot of products, however on closer inspection are loaded full of sugar. What a crock :dunno:

 

[MentalTwitch]

The French eat rich and heavy diets of cream, butter, and pates. They have a heart disease rate of 150,000 out of 1,000,000. We are 300,000. That isn't a study, it's statistics.

.

Although im not clear on the subject i enjoy following topics but would like to say...
American pop. estimate = 304,200,000
France pop. estimate = 61,600,000

So i think in a ratio its about equal. I have been considering heavily adding cocnut oil to my diet somehow but unsure when or if its thebest choice. Also, id like to eradicate more fat out of my diet first.

 

[DAdams91982]

Although im not clear on the subject i enjoy following topics but would like to say...
American pop. estimate = 304,200,000
France pop. estimate = 61,600,000

So i think in a ratio its about equal. I have been considering heavily adding cocnut oil to my diet somehow but unsure when or if its thebest choice. Also, id like to eradicate more fat out of my diet first.

before bed is the best time.

 

[EasyEJL]

Mother's milk is LOADED with saturated fat and cholesterol. I don't think Mother Nature got it wrong.

but what's good for a newborn isn't necessarily whats good for an adult

 

[benj851]

before bed is the best time.

can you explain why please? I'm interested in this.

 

[planetfuzz]

can you explain why please? I'm interested in this.

I really don't think there is a "best" time to take coconut oil. I got in the habit of doing it for two reasons. When I have a shake before bed, it's an easy way to fill me up and get some saturated fat. Even though I love butter, it doesn't go well with shakes, ha. It also fills me up. I can not sleep if I am hungry.

I think coconut oil before a workout does wonders. It might all be in my head but I swear it gives me nice steady energy.

 

[PublicEnemy]

but what's good for a newborn isn't necessarily whats good for an adult

Agreed. I've spent the prior month covering infant nutrition for one of my courses and the BMI for the average infant is about equivalent to an obese adult. Breast milk exists to insure the infant survives and develops; both of which require a high nutrient surplus.

 

[planetfuzz]

Agreed. I've spent the prior month covering infant nutrition for one of my courses and the BMI for the average infant is about equivalent to an obese adult. Breast milk exists to insure the infant survives and develops; both of which require a high nutrient surplus.

Touche. What if I require a high nutrient surplus? Haha

 

[planetfuzz]

Just stumbled across this. This is one of the doctors who is an advocate for saturated fat "decriminalization". Ha! He says it very well.

“The message isn’t that you should gorge on butter, bacon, and cheese,” says Volek. “It’s that there’s no scientific reason that natural foods containing saturated fat can’t, or shouldn’t, be part of a healthy diet.”

 

[PublicEnemy]

Touche. What if I require a high nutrient surplus? Haha

Well my prof has said when it comes to milk, breast is best

 

[Jayhawkk]

Atkins is basically a high fat diet and I have yet to see anyone healthy on this diet for extended periods... Moderation and variety is key to nutrition. It's one thing to say saturated fat isn't as dangerous as it's made out to be but it's another to say you can pound down the high fat hamburger and top everything with lard just because you keep carbs and FCS low..

 

[Jayhawkk]

Plus another couple of points missed on using history and the diet used.

1. Life span was low as hell (for various reasons) so determining long term effects wasn't possible.

2. We're obese for a few reaons and diet is one but don't rule out difference in exercise and activity over the years. 200 years ago we didn't have 4 hour daily commutes and 8-12 hour office jobs.

 

[EasyEJL]

can you explain why please? I'm interested in this.

it will create the highest surplus cholesterol spike right before highest testosterone production spike...

 

[planetfuzz]

Atkins is basically a high fat diet and I have yet to see anyone healthy on this diet for extended periods... Moderation and variety is key to nutrition. It's one thing to say saturated fat isn't as dangerous as it's made out to be but it's another to say you can pound down the high fat hamburger and top everything with lard just because you keep carbs and FCS low..

Oh I totally agree. My definition of moderation when it comes to fat is probably on the higher spectrum. I just think most "evidence" of why saturated fat is bad is probably not studied on individuals who eat a balanced diet and exercise and are generally healthy to begin with.

I would say in the American mainstream there are two "bad guys" when it comes to health. Saturated fat and cholesterol. Which is backwards. That's my problem.

That is true, life span was less but it's still the food we've been eating for thousands of years.

We all know the final issue though, really everything, even trans fats, can be ok in moderation. How much you want to personally moderate it, is your personal choice. I choose to totally avoid trans fats and HFCS but that is just me.

 

[DAdams91982]

Oh I totally agree. My definition of moderation when it comes to fat is probably on the higher spectrum. I just think most "evidence" of why saturated fat is bad is probably not studied on individuals who eat a balanced diet and exercise and are generally healthy to begin with.

I would say in the American mainstream there are two "bad guys" when it comes to health. Saturated fat and cholesterol. Which is backwards. That's my problem.

That is true, life span was less but it's still the food we've been eating for thousands of years.

We all know the final issue though, really everything, even trans fats, can be ok in moderation. How much you want to personally moderate it, is your personal choice. I choose to totally avoid trans fats and HFCS but that is just me.

I must ask.. why do you keep referring to primitive diets as being only laden with fats? Realize most of the primitive diet can from gathering as opposed to hunting.

 

[planetfuzz]

I must ask.. why do you keep referring to primitive diets as being only laden with fats? Realize most of the primitive diet can from gathering as opposed to hunting.

Well, not only laden with fats. I didn't mean to sound that way. Just trying to make a point that most cultures, older and current day, who eat high fat diets are very healthy. Low carb, high carb, high fat. There many examples of healthy cultures who eat this way. What do they have in common? They all eat real, whole, nutrient dense food.