Please help separate diet into categories.

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    Please help separate diet into categories.


    37, male, 180 (should be 170), still lots to learn

    My routine diet usually consists of the following 7 categories with supplements thrown in here and there:

    1. Awakening- 23g whey protein, one banana and/ or orange juice or carrot juice, Vitamin C, Glucosamine, Chondroitin, MSM, fish oil or krill oil, etc.
    2. Lunch- 23g whey protein or Muscle Milk light (trying to use it up) or high calorie/ fat lunch (a weakness)
    3. Preworkout- 23g whey protein, caffein, etc (no carbs).
    4. Workout- 200 calories of complex carbs (need advice on. I workout extremely hard and burn lots of calories for 2.5 to 3.5 hours about 4/ week. I don't want to store fat because of my workout carbs)
    5. Post Workout- 30g whey protein, 60 calories waxy maize starch, etc.
    6. Dinner- usually huge (I know), maybe a couple of servings of alcohol
    7. Before sleep- 23g whey protein, GABA, etc (no carbs).
    ______________
    I have the following extra supplements (in addition to those listed above):
    Proline, AAKG, B12, Niacin, B (3, 6, complex), Acetyl L Carnatine, CEEM, Creatine Magnesium Chelate, Ribose, Tyrosine, Taurine, OKG, leucine, valine, cirulline malate, glutamine, Tribulus, maltodextrin.

    I know the obvious things that are wrong with my current diet, but at what time during my day can I use these extra supplements to best enhance my training? Additional aminos to buy? Are carbs required for every whey protein shake or just post workout?

    thanks for any help, Kevin.

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    This is a very vague and difficult question to respond to. What are your goals?
    You say you should be 170, is that important to you right now? In my opinion, if weight loss is important to you, you are probably doing yourself more harm then good by adding all of the extra pre and post workout carbs, especially if you are struggling to eat clean. A better Idea might be to keep your diet clean and low carb for as much of the day as possible, and use your post workout time eat your big meals, or consume your more "sugary" foods.

    I could be way off what you are really asking for here...perhaps a more specific approach in your question would help if I am.
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    You say you should be 170, is that important to you right now? In my opinion, if weight loss is important to you, you are probably doing yourself more harm then good by adding all of the extra pre and post workout carbs, especially if you are struggling to eat clean. A better Idea might be to keep your diet clean and low carb for as much of the day as possible, and use your post workout time eat your big meals, or consume your more "sugary" foods.
    I do eat as you have suggested most of the time, I was just mentioning that ocasionally I go out to lunch and over do it. I guess the post is kind of complex. To be clear, other than with my workout drink, I am not necessarily trying to get advice on losing weight here. I obviously can lose weight by controlling calories and fat at meals. I am more trying to see what supplement ingredients (mainly aminos) would be be best suited for particular times each day and whether they need to be consumed in conjunction with other supplements. For instance, is acetyl L carnatine best taken during a workout or should I take it with breakfast? Is CEEM o.k. to mix with maltodextrin (I read something about mixing sugar with creatine)? Is leucine/ valine better preworkout than post? Again, assuming that I take sugar post workout to get the protein pumping into my muscles, what about the protein shakes I take during the rest of the day that are very low in carbs and fat? Do they need sugar to be effective as well? My short term goal is strength gains even if it means some bulking:dl:
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevmac View Post
    I do eat as you have suggested most of the time, I was just mentioning that ocasionally I go out to lunch and over do it. I guess the post is kind of complex. To be clear, other than with my workout drink, I am not necessarily trying to get advice on losing weight here. I obviously can lose weight by controlling calories and fat at meals. I am more trying to see what supplement ingredients (mainly aminos) would be be best suited for particular times each day and whether they need to be consumed in conjunction with other supplements. For instance, is acetyl L carnatine best taken during a workout or should I take it with breakfast? Is CEEM o.k. to mix with maltodextrin (I read something about mixing sugar with creatine)? Is leucine/ valine better preworkout than post? Again, assuming that I take sugar post workout to get the protein pumping into my muscles, what about the protein shakes I take during the rest of the day that are very low in carbs and fat? Do they need sugar to be effective as well? My short term goal is strength gains even if it means some bulking:dl:
    I will comment on the things I have some experience and research on...I don't know a whole lot about ALCAR or CEEM (creatine ethyl ester malate?), but mixing creatine with carbs isn't going to hurt anything. The truth is, there isn't really a whole lot of clinical information on the plethora exotic creatine products out there, so no one really knows what is the most beneficial way to dose these types.

    The sugar after your workout is intended to increase insulin, placing the body in a more anabolic state. Sugar is not needed in your daily protein shakes, and will mostly just result in fat gain.

    I suggest your aminos (the highest prospect here is leucine) are best taken 90 minutes PRE workout. I say this for 2 reasons:

    #1- the absobtion of leucine has been shown to be SLOWER during resistance training, so getting more aminos in the bloodsteam well before your workout will enhance delivery.

    #2- Your post workout protein shake most likely contains somewhere around 2 grams of leucine, and anything over 2.5 grams has not been shown to produce any benefits whatsoever.

    DO take you post workout protein shake before or with your sugars. Leucine has also been shown to produce a 70% greater insulin release when used with glucose vs. glucose alone.

    I hope some of that helps. Are you just taking bulk leucine/valine, or are you consuming a pre-made BCAA product?
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    I'd don't know if it's beneficial to be taking 5 protein shakes a day like you are, I would try to get more from meat, eggs, dairy, etc.
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    ya try to get more protein rich foods whole foods dont rely on just protein shakes get a lot of chicken lean meat whole grain food
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    The sugar after your workout is intended to increase insulin, placing the body in a more anabolic state. Sugar is not needed in your daily protein shakes, and will mostly just result in fat gain.
    Good to know.

    #1- the absobtion of leucine has been shown to be SLOWER during resistance training, so getting more aminos in the bloodsteam well before your workout will enhance delivery.

    #2- Your post workout protein shake most likely contains somewhere around 2 grams of leucine, and anything over 2.5 grams has not been shown to produce any benefits whatsoever.
    My ATW has about 3 grams leucine with the 30g protein I take.

    I hope some of that helps. Are you just taking bulk leucine/valine, or are you consuming a pre-made BCAA product?
    I have bulk powders. I did see that Leucine, valine, and isoleucine are the primary ingredients of a lot of BCAAs on the market. They seem to recommend post workout dosing.

    Is there a rule of thumb on postworkout carbs? I have WMS which is kind of gross. I take about half a scoop (60 calories). Is that sufficient for insulin? I really don't want a lot of carbs right before dinner. Also, any other post workout supplements that I should add for recovery?
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    Where's da beef?

    And you're working out waaaaaaayyyyyyyyy too long.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bubbachew View Post
    Where's da beef?

    And you're working out waaaaaaayyyyyyyyy too long.
    Yea, I keep my workouts under an hour, more than an hour and a half is way too long
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    Quote Originally Posted by ljustman View Post
    Yea, I keep my workouts under an hour, more than an hour and a half is way too long
    agreed
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    My dinner always consists of chicken or beef. I do cardio (bike, run, stair climb, cross train) for about an hour/ workout. I spend about 1 to 2 hours on weights. That's 3 to five times per week. I'm not looking for a body builder body. I want to be strong and fit and able to handle endurance. I tend to push myself to the limit each time at the gym. When I have it, I don't waste it! For those of you setting time limits on my workouts: what is your basis? I don't have time to workout twice a day, five times per week like some of you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevmac View Post
    My dinner always consists of chicken or beef. I do cardio (bike, run, stair climb, cross train) for about an hour/ workout. I spend about 1 to 2 hours on weights. That's 3 to five times per week. I'm not looking for a body builder body. I want to be strong and fit and able to handle endurance. I tend to push myself to the limit each time at the gym. When I have it, I don't waste it! For those of you setting time limits on my workouts: what is your basis? I don't have time to workout twice a day, five times per week like some of you.
    My routine is 3-4 days a week, 45 min.-1 hour per workout. You're doing more harm than good to your body working out that long.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevmac View Post
    My dinner always consists of chicken or beef. I do cardio (bike, run, stair climb, cross train) for about an hour/ workout. I spend about 1 to 2 hours on weights. That's 3 to five times per week. I'm not looking for a body builder body. I want to be strong and fit and able to handle endurance. I tend to push myself to the limit each time at the gym. When I have it, I don't waste it! For those of you setting time limits on my workouts: what is your basis? I don't have time to workout twice a day, five times per week like some of you.
    I don't spend that much time in the gym, probably less than you. Most weeks it's around 4-5 hrs total. I do this because I spent years thinking the more time in the gym the better, but never got good results. The reasoning behind keeping the workout shorter is your body loses energy and nutrients at an exponential rate soon after that point. The two main things that most people point to are a rapid depletion of creatine and sugar levels within the muscle. It's essential to push yourself, don't get me wrong, but if you completely exhaust yourself like this every time you're in the gym it might hurt you more than help you. I know it might be hard to do cardio at a different time, but I find it most beneficial to do it when I wake up. IMHO and many that I've heard from on this site, extended cardio after lifting can have an effect on the results you get from your lift.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevmac View Post
    My dinner always consists of chicken or beef. I do cardio (bike, run, stair climb, cross train) for about an hour/ workout. I spend about 1 to 2 hours on weights. That's 3 to five times per week. I'm not looking for a body builder body. I want to be strong and fit and able to handle endurance. I tend to push myself to the limit each time at the gym. When I have it, I don't waste it! For those of you setting time limits on my workouts: what is your basis? I don't have time to workout twice a day, five times per week like some of you.
    forgot to mention, you can adjust your lifts to meet your goals. If you don't want to get huge, just focus on endurance and all around health, you can switch up your workout to accomadate. Do higher reps-lower weight, more full motion lifts (power cleans, full motion squats, curl/military press sequence), and docus on core workouts.
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    I used to spend about 2 hours weight training, then running immediately afterward. I had good results doing this, but also only weight trained 3x/week, unlike many splits that are as often as 5-6 times/week.

    IMO, shortening up your resting periods between sets will further improve your endurance, and shorten the duration of your workouts. You could do a high intensity circuit program that would have you virtually unable to function in less than an hour, if endurance was your main goal. It would be beneficial to concentrate on adding intensity at this point, such as running the same distance in less time, doing the same # of reps/exercises in the same time, ect. As you progress, you should be spending less time in the gym.

    As far as WMS, I have no experience with it. I normally use a protein shake with (sometimes chocolate) milk and oat flour, along with some solid foods as well. I've thought about trying something like Vitargo myself, but for now I just make sure to get some simple and complex carbs and protein however I can.
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    Quote Originally Posted by redemption79 View Post
    I used to spend about 2 hours weight training, then running immediately afterward. I had good results doing this, but also only weight trained 3x/week, unlike many splits that are as often as 5-6 times/week.

    IMO, shortening up your resting periods between sets will further improve your endurance, and shorten the duration of your workouts. You could do a high intensity circuit program that would have you virtually unable to function in less than an hour, if endurance was your main goal. It would be beneficial to concentrate on adding intensity at this point, such as running the same distance in less time, doing the same # of reps/exercises in the same time, ect. As you progress, you should be spending less time in the gym.

    As far as WMS, I have no experience with it. I normally use a protein shake with (sometimes chocolate) milk and oat flour, along with some solid foods as well. I've thought about trying something like Vitargo myself, but for now I just make sure to get some simple and complex carbs and protein however I can.
    Hey man, if that worked for you, more power to you. Everyone's body works a little differently, it took a lot of trial and error for me to find routine that works for me.
  

  
 

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