Protein powder vs Meat

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    Cliff notes anyone?
    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates

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    Quote Originally Posted by MusclesFrogs View Post
    My goal here isn't to prove you wrong, nor is it to go out and create a study, it's just to see if there have been studies done. It seems not. So when people say "get most of your protein from food and only use shakes as supplements", remember, they're basing that on absolutely nothing. I say do whatever the hell you want until someone shows you a scientific study - absurd watching one meathead say something and everyone else follows like ducks. It's one big game of telephone. No one cares to look at scientific data. As is evident by the amount of juice the community uses - seems like rational went out the window a long time ago.
    Ok, i'll go back to your original statement

    But my question is, can anyone link me to any "scientific data" that shows eating meat increases muscle growth more/faster than the equivalent amount of protein taken via WPI.
    Now; protein is not the sole determinant factor of muscle growth, you know this I assume? Had the statement read, "can anyone link me to any "scientific data" that shows eating meat increases muscle growth more/faster than the equivalent calorie amount taken via WPI" then thats a whole other point.

    Then you went on about how atkins doesn't promote the use of vegetables and then further onto the point that, for some reason, you seem to assume that a calorie excess is not needed for muscle growth

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    Let me try this again: what would you propose to make up for the caloric difference? You can't make comparisons amongst groups with different caloric consumption.
    Quote Originally Posted by MusclesFrogs View Post
    Yes, you can. If calories in the meat are increasing muscle mass moreso than the WPI alone - then there's your answer, meat is more effective. However if the calories are only adding to the fat/overall mass as compared to WPI, then it's not relevant.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    Yeah....if you have one group consuming more calories than the other group, then the study design is completely flawed and irrelevant. You would need to have equal caloric intakes for the results to be valid.
    You cannot compare data and draw conclusions that one is better than the other when calorie intake is not the same. Thats like comparing a high carb diet at 700 kcals per day against a low carb diet at 1800 kcals per day and, even if they are both in deficit, making the assumption that high carb is better because it yielded better weight loss. That is illogical.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    Cliff notes anyone?
    -Don't eat veges in aktins
    -Eating in excess is not needed for muscle growth
    -Studies that compare different calorie intakes should be used to compare meat and whey and total muscle growth (read my post above)
    -Protein is the sole determinant of muscle mass gain and not overall calorie intake
    -We are meatheads and juicers

    Oh and i'm waiting for a scientific study that Oranges are indeed orange and not blue.
    •   
       

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    Ok, i'll go back to your original statement Now; protein is not the sole determinant factor of muscle growth, you know this I assume? Had the statement read, "can anyone link me to any "scientific data" that shows eating meat increases muscle growth more/faster than the equivalent calorie amount taken via WPI" then thats a whole other point. Then you went on about how atkins doesn't promote the use of vegetables and then further onto the point that, for some reason, you seem to assume that a calorie excess is not needed for muscle growthYou cannot compare data and draw conclusions that one is better than the other when calorie intake is not the same. Thats like comparing a high carb diet at 700 kcals per day against a low carb diet at 1800 kcals per day and, even if they are both in deficit, making the assumption that high carb is better because it yielded better weight loss. That is illogical.
    That was a mouthful. Still back where we started. Will repeat succinctly. Does whey protein isolate produce the same, less or more muscle growth than eating meat/egg proteins of the same protein value, regardless of fat content. That's the question. Show me a study or everything else is nonsense.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MusclesFrogs View Post
    That was a mouthful. Still back where we started. Will repeat succinctly. Does whey protein isolate produce the same, less or more muscle growth than eating meat/egg proteins of the same protein value, regardless of fat content. That's the question. Show me a study or everything else is nonsense.
    You're such a tool I don't know where to begin. All this energy spent on banter and you could have spent it on cross checking research and comparing information in studies and fitness articles all over the Internet. Argumentative lil prick that I'm willing to bet is about 165lbs at best and soft as a bitch and I'd say in the age group of 18-21 with that attitude . How do I know this? Well, your complete lack of experience is evident based upon your complete lack of knowledge that would have been gained through experience which in turn shows how dumb and immature you are with your senseless carrying on. Do us a favor. Post a pic of yourself that's real and show us where your at physically. Post some stats and change your attitude alil bit and you may get some respect on here otherwise go back to that other BB site and troll there. Kick rocks dip shlt!
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeg313 View Post
    You're such a tool I don't know where to begin. All this energy spent on banter and you could have spent it on cross checking research and comparing information in studies and fitness articles all over the Internet. Argumentative lil prick that I'm willing to bet is about 165lbs at best and soft as a bitch and I'd say in the age group of 18-21 with that attitude . How do I know this? Well, your complete lack of experience is evident based upon your complete lack of knowledge that would have been gained through experience which in turn shows how dumb and immature you are with your senseless carrying on. Do us a favor. Post a pic of yourself that's real and show us where your at physically. Post some stats and change your attitude alil bit and you may get some respect on here otherwise go back to that other BB site and troll there. Kick rocks dip shlt!
    Aww you're cute Mike. Bet your girlfriends love when you rage incoherently. Sorry I'm just someone online so you can't flex your inexhaustible absurdities at me. It's so adorable that you've literally conceded the argument so primitively to the point, that you literally said "show me your muscles" Ooh ooh, me caveman, only way to know someone smart is if have muscle big ooh ooh! You're a treat for the academic world. How about this as an alternative plan. How about you go find your tweezers, so you can then find your remnant of a "member". Once that's done, say, "Juice no good for Mikey. maybe me work on brains instead ooh!"

    Your target demo of me is completely wrong, sorry you like thinking about about skinny young boys as your default - might want to look into that. In response to your opening statement, that's what this whole conversation has been about - there are no studies comparing the two. So, what do we take away from this? Rage and muscle is worthless and has no value on the Internet, so you trying to play that card is laughable. Two, write intelligently, don't embarrass yourself.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MusclesFrogs View Post
    That was a mouthful. Still back where we started. Will repeat succinctly. Does whey protein isolate produce the same, less or more muscle growth than eating meat/egg proteins of the same protein value, regardless of fat content. That's the question. Show me a study or everything else is nonsense.
    Now I understand where you are coming from; I think that message got jumbled up. Ok, from a purely protein standpoint, no. I doubt you will notice any difference WRT muscle gains.

    FWIW, I do think it is a good thing you are challenging people by asking where they obtained that information, but some of the things you posted earlier do not make sense from a research point of view. I get where you are coming from now but that wasn't so clear earlier, it was made to seem as though simply getting enough protein was more important than calories however I don't think this point was your intention.

    I will say that, although I doubt this is how you approach things, that it is important to mix up protein sources. Yes, animal derived proteins are complete in that they contain all aminos but they contain varying amounts with products being more dominant in certain aminos and others being more dominant in others.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MusclesFrogs View Post

    Aww you're cute Mike. Bet your girlfriends love when you rage incoherently. Sorry I'm just someone online so you can't flex your inexhaustible absurdities at me. It's so adorable that you've literally conceded the argument so primitively to the point, that you literally said "show me your muscles" Ooh ooh, me caveman, only way to know someone smart is if have muscle big ooh ooh! You're a treat for the academic world. How about this as an alternative plan. How about you go find your tweezers, so you can then find your remnant of a "member". Once that's done, say, "Juice no good for Mikey. maybe me work on brains instead ooh!"

    Your target demo of me is completely wrong, sorry you like thinking about about skinny young boys as your default - might want to look into that. In response to your opening statement, that's what this whole conversation has been about - there are no studies comparing the two. So, what do we take away from this? Rage and muscle is worthless and has no value on the Internet, so you trying to play that card is laughable. Two, write intelligently, don't embarrass yourself.
    Spin it any way you like douche bag. Won't be long before you're banned.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeg313 View Post
    Spin it any way you like douche bag. Won't be long before you're banned.
    Look at the language you used and look at the language I used - who do you really think is more likely to get banned.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeg313 View Post

    You're such a tool I don't know where to begin. All this energy spent on banter and you could have spent it on cross checking research and comparing information in studies and fitness articles all over the Internet. Argumentative lil prick that I'm willing to bet is about 165lbs at best and soft as a bitch and I'd say in the age group of 18-21 with that attitude . How do I know this? Well, your complete lack of experience is evident based upon your complete lack of knowledge that would have been gained through experience which in turn shows how dumb and immature you are with your senseless carrying on. Do us a favor. Post a pic of yourself that's real and show us where your at physically. Post some stats and change your attitude alil bit and you may get some respect on here otherwise go back to that other BB site and troll there. Kick rocks dip shlt!


    What does his size, bench, weight, age, or anything else about him personally matter in regards to his questions or comments?
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardwork25 View Post

    What does his size, bench, weight, age, or anything else about him personally matter in regards to his questions or comments?
    I smelled a scrawny lil troll and decided to call him out after reading through the thread. It happens. Why? U mad?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    -Don't eat veges in aktins
    never read atkins

    Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    -Eating in excess is not needed for muscle growth
    I have followed logs where one would actually gain lbm on a PSMF type diet so I suppose its possible but it will be no where near as effective as a caloric surplus diet

    Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    -Studies that compare different calorie intakes should be used to compare meat and whey and total muscle growth (read my post above)
    thats just silly

    Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    -Protein is the sole determinant of muscle mass gain and not overall calorie intake
    fat and carbs dont contribute?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    -We are meatheads and juicers
    pretty much sums up my life

    Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    Oh and i'm waiting for a scientific study that Oranges are indeed orange and not blue.
    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardwork25 View Post
    What does his size, bench, weight, age, or anything else about him personally matter in regards to his questions or comments?
    Thank you hardwork for being a normal, logical person - it's a rare state here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MusclesFrogs View Post

    Thank you hardwork for being a normal, logical person - it's a rare state here.
    Because after being a 4 day forum member you can judge the state of things here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeg313 View Post
    Because after being a 4 day forum member you can judge the state of things here.
    After 3 decades on the planet, I can judge the state of people.
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    This has been an entertaining thread to say the least.. why cant we get along???? have your protein powder and your meals together..
    Quote Originally Posted by bdcc View Post
    If you are not on the PES Insider list you are not cool. Uncool people don't deserve free Alphamine.
    PES product educator, PM me with any questions!
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    Quote Originally Posted by MusclesFrogs View Post

    After 3 decades on the planet, I can judge the state of people.
    Then don't get so butt hurt when you get judged for your actions. Fill this out and get back to me.

    Name:  image-3161979226.jpg
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    Is that a new thread? lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeg313 View Post

    Then don't get so butt hurt when you get judged for your actions. Fill this out and get back to me.

    <img src="http://anabolicminds.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=82 254"/>
    That's awesome.
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    So did we come to a conclusion?
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    Don't worry about the science. Drink 5 protein shakes a day for a week and you will get your answer.
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    I gave up on chicken breast or steak.

    I'm mean sure that's quality protein right there, but it just doesn't fit my lifestyle.

    Eggs, tuna, milk, cheese, and powder; all staples in my diet.

    You see these videos of pro bodybuilders eating pounds of meat; I really don't think it's necessary to eat like that, regardless of how big you are.
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    Quote Originally Posted by R1187 View Post
    I gave up on chicken breast or steak.

    I'm mean sure that's quality protein right there, but it just doesn't fit my lifestyle.

    Eggs, tuna, milk, cheese, and powder; all staples in my diet.

    You see these videos of pro bodybuilders eating pounds of meat; I really don't think it's necessary to eat like that, regardless of how big you are.
    Then why do they do it? Probably because it works.
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    Quote Originally Posted by machorox123 View Post
    Then why do they do it? Probably because it works.
    Of course it works, simply saying it's not the only way to ingest protein.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeg313 View Post
    Then don't get so butt hurt when you get judged for your actions. Fill this out and get back to me. Name:  image-3161979226.jpg
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    Oh Mike, you don't have to explain to me why you have so much paperwork handy regarding your butt being hurt, but that's between you and your boyfriend. You should keep your personal life off these threads.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MusclesFrogs View Post
    Oh Mike, you don't have to explain to me why you have so much paperwork handy regarding your butt being hurt, but that's between you and your boyfriend. You should keep your personal life off these threads.
    Did it take you three days to come up with that gem?
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    Quote Originally Posted by McCrew530 View Post
    Did it take you three days to come up with that gem?
    No, unlike you I have other interests and don't follow bodybuilding forums religiously.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MusclesFrogs View Post
    Oh Mike, you don't have to explain to me why you have so much paperwork handy regarding your butt being hurt, but that's between you and your boyfriend. You should keep your personal life off these threads.
    That's the best you could come up with? You're pathetic ...
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    Quote Originally Posted by MusclesFrogs View Post
    No, unlike you I have other interests and don't follow bodybuilding forums religiously.
    And by other interests I’m going to go out on a limb and say porn.
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    I love Internet tough guys!!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by McCrew530 View Post
    And by other interests I’m going to go out on a limb and say porn.
    Possibly porn. Something wrong with that?
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeg313 View Post
    That's the best you could come up with? You're pathetic ...
    Mike, can't hear you - your boyfriend is filling your mouth too full.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MusclesFrogs View Post
    Mike, can't hear you - your boyfriend is filling your mouth too full.
    just another guess but Im going to say gay porn is your nitche...
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    Quote Originally Posted by MusclesFrogs View Post

    Sorry, you're misinformed. When the point of the study is to test whether caloric intake as well as other macronutrients found in meats actually helps contribute to muscle growth/size vs WPI and its low caloric value, then there is no need for this. That's like saying I want to test a weight loss study testing high calorie diet vs a low calorie diet...but the calories need to be the same. Flawed logic.
    I know I am late to the game on this thread but I had to post after this idiocy.

    If you know anything about research design you would see instantly why this is flawed. You have TWO independent variables. Meaning you have a type 2 error right off the bat without even testing... Which is exactly why, among other things you won't find research like this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDog479 View Post

    I know I am late to the game on this thread but I had to post after this idiocy.

    If you know anything about research design you would see instantly why this is flawed. You have TWO independent variables. Meaning you have a type 2 error right off the bat without even testing... Which is exactly why, among other things you won't find research like this.
    This musclefrog guy is a moron , I doubt it will sink in.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeg313 View Post

    This musclefrog guy is a moron , I doubt it will sink in.
    I swear I thought he'd be done with this shiz after his thread on this subject didn't go his way...
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    There is no substitute for meat when it comes to protein. Meat provides you with essential nutrients that your body needs. Protein shakes are supplemental not to be replaced with real food but to assist you in your diet and nutritional needs. Make sure you calculate your macros and know your daily caloric needs and if you are looking to boost your protein shakes with calories add peanut butter and oats when necessary.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MuscleGauge1 View Post
    There is no substitute for meat when it comes to protein. Meat provides you with essential nutrients that your body needs. Protein shakes are supplemental not to be replaced with real food but to assist you in your diet and nutritional needs. Make sure you calculate your macros and know your daily caloric needs and if you are looking to boost your protein shakes with calories add peanut butter and oats when necessary.

    Really?
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    Quote Originally Posted by MuscleGauge1 View Post
    There is no substitute for meat when it comes to protein. Meat provides you with essential nutrients that your body needs. Protein shakes are supplemental not to be replaced with real food but to assist you in your diet and nutritional needs. Make sure you calculate your macros and know your daily caloric needs and if you are looking to boost your protein shakes with calories add peanut butter and oats when necessary.
    But where's the study?
  

  
 

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