Protein powder vs Meat

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by MusclesFrogs View Post
    Yes, there are 7 billion people in the world. Many signing up for stranger more invasive studies with less important results - so, no it's not far fetched by any means. It's a very simple study. Feed 50 people pure protein shakes for a month. And feed the other 50 only sources of food protein (no vegetables, carbs or any other food that would interfere with the results) just meats/eggs, etc. Take accurate muscle mass measurements before during and after, place them on identical workout regimens using body weight percentage to account for how much weight they use. See who gains more. And there's your study.
    It sounds easy on paper but you do understand how the body works right? There are many other things that your entire system needs besides protein. To get down to the technicality of it all the body breaks protein down whey or meat into branch chain amino acids to create the building blocks for more muscles, but needs many other essentials to run and be healthy. When the body does not have these other essentials it will find them. And where will it find them? Bum da da dum! Your muscles! And why does it go to your muscles aka your meat because it is rich in nutrients. If you look at the back of some powders you will see sometimes that the company has included other vitamins and essential minerals which are naturally found in some meats, and why do they do that? So your body can better repair it self and hopefully create... You guessed it more muscle. So they dont have to do a study because the answer is simple, if a person only consumes whey you go catabolic due to the lack of other nutrients.
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  2. Yes, it's called Atkins
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    Quote Originally Posted by MusclesFrogs View Post
    Yes, it's called Atkins
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  4. Quote Originally Posted by MusclesFrogs View Post
    Yes, it's called Atkins
    Atkins encourages high amounts of vegetables. Again, how would you make up for the energy balance from the fats within, for example, whole eggs in the protein shake only group? What do you propose doing to account for the inevitable GI distress from no fiber?
    M.Ed. Ex Phys


  5. The study is not about only consuming whey or only consuming meat, obviously in the real world people can eat salads, carbs, etc. but as their main protein source, can choose to only eat WPI. that's what this whole topic is about, meat vs. WPI - obviously you need other nutrients to live, this is just comparing the muscle growth benefits between only the WPI and meat. So in order to do that, you need a clean test. People verrrry frequently run all sorts of crazy metabolic, anabolic studies that are far more complex than this. Now, I don't have the answer regarding WPI and food protein regarding which is better for protein synthesis, but I haven't read anything on here that shows anyone else does definitively either. It's all anecdotal evidence, which in the scientific world, amounts to nothing. Also, not to say the participants in the study could be given a daily vitamin to make sure they're receiving some of what they need.
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  6. First of all, no eggs in protein shakes, Im talking about pure whey isolate only. And n, for a month, there would be no vegetables. Atkins doesn't encourage vegetables, you can have a tinnnnny amount of green lettuce before you breach your 20 carbs a day rule. But many people skip veggies all together, and you would have to for this.

  7. Re: fiber - maybe each participant would be allowed some beneful (fiber mix drink) - youd obviously have to work out the fine details, but on the macro, there's no problem with this study for a month.

  8. Quote Originally Posted by MusclesFrogs View Post
    First of all, no eggs in protein shakes, Im talking about pure whey isolate only. And n, for a month, there would be no vegetables. Atkins doesn't encourage vegetables, you can have a tinnnnny amount of green lettuce before you breach your 20 carbs a day rule. But many people skip veggies all together, and you would have to for this.
    I didn't say eggs in protein shakes; I said that there would be a large caloric difference in 30g of protein from whole eggs vs 30g protein from WPI. You can eat over a pound of broccoli per day and not exceed 20g of carbs.

    Your idea is far from practical and you have to realize that what you want is impossible to design in a study. There are a myriad of variables that you'd have to account for and the adherence rate would be so low that it would negate the results. Nobody is encouraging only using WPI as their sole protein source as that makes no sense. A huge part of the reason for protein shakes is practicality in that it is difficult for most to consume the protein they need from just whole foods.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys


  9. Quote Originally Posted by MusclesFrogs View Post
    Re: fiber - maybe each participant would be allowed some beneful (fiber mix drink) - youd obviously have to work out the fine details, but on the macro, there's no problem with this study for a month.
    Did you read the link that I posted at the begining of this thread?
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  10. Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    I didn't say eggs in protein shakes; I said that there would be a large caloric difference in 30g of protein from whole eggs vs 30g protein from WPI. You can eat over a pound of broccoli per day and not exceed 20g of carbs.Your idea is far from practical and you have to realize that what you want is impossible to design in a study. There are a myriad of variables that you'd have to account for and the adherence rate would be so low that it would negate the results. Nobody is encouraging only using WPI as their sole protein source as that makes no sense. A huge part of the reason for protein shakes is practicality in that it is difficult for most to consume the protein they need from just whole foods.
    20g of Carbs in one stock of brocolli, regardless, veggies are not required in Atkins. And I know there would be a large caloric difference between eggs and WPI same with steak and WPI - that's what the study is about, to see if that actually effects the rate/size of muscle growth. We're measuring only muscle mass, not overall mass, so if you gain fat, it's irrelevant. It's absurd to call a simple study like the impossible to design. You need to read the complexity of most modern studies, this is child's play comparatively. And I know nobody is encouraging only WPI, but that is because everyone blindly thinks they MUST use it only as a supplement instead of a primarily because they hear enough people saying it - but there's no study (that I've seen) - and if there is, great, I have no horse in the race. Just curious about the results, and I don't take information from anecdotal sources and heresay.

  11. Quote Originally Posted by McCrew530 View Post
    Did you read the link that I posted at the begining of this thread?
    Yes, I read it, and all well and good, but I'd like to see a study that proves it. Right now it's just words.

  12. Quote Originally Posted by MusclesFrogs View Post
    20g of Carbs in one stock of brocolli, regardless, veggies are not required in Atkins. And I know there would be a large caloric difference between eggs and WPI same with steak and WPI - that's what the study is about, to see if that actually effects the rate/size of muscle growth. We're measuring only muscle mass, not overall mass, so if you gain fat, it's irrelevant. It's absurd to call a simple study like the impossible to design. You need to read the complexity of most modern studies, this is child's play comparatively. And I know nobody is encouraging only WPI, but that is because everyone blindly thinks they MUST use it only as a supplement instead of a primarily because they hear enough people saying it - but there's no study (that I've seen) - and if there is, great, I have no horse in the race. Just curious about the results, and I don't take information from anecdotal sources and heresay.
    Let me try this again: what would you propose to make up for the caloric difference? You can't make comparisons amongst groups with different caloric consumption.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys


  13. Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    Let me try this again: what would you propose to make up for the caloric difference? You can't make comparisons amongst groups with different caloric consumption.
    Yes, you can. If calories in the meat are increasing muscle mass moreso than the WPI alone - then there's your answer, meat is more effective. However if the calories are only adding to the fat/overall mass as compared to WPI, then it's not relevant.

  14. Quote Originally Posted by MusclesFrogs View Post
    Yes, you can. If calories in the meat are increasing muscle mass moreso than the WPI alone - then there's your answer, meat is more effective. However if the calories are only adding to the fat/overall mass as compared to WPI, then it's not relevant.
    Yeah....if you have one group consuming more calories than the other group, then the study design is completely flawed and irrelevant. You would need to have equal caloric intakes for the results to be valid.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys


  15. Quote Originally Posted by MusclesFrogs View Post
    Yes, I read it, and all well and good, but I'd like to see a study that proves it. Right now it's just words.
    A study that shows meat breaks down slower then whey protein?...
    read this
    http://www.menshealth.com/mhlists/gu...in/printer.php
    If your still arguing your point I’m going to take you for a troll who just wants to argue for the sake of arguing
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  16. Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    Yeah....if you have one group consuming more calories than the other group, then the study design is completely flawed and irrelevant. You would need to have equal caloric intakes for the results to be valid.
    What are you basing this on? You gave me no reason why it would be invalid, you just said it would be.

  17. Quote Originally Posted by McCrew530 View Post
    A study that shows meat breaks down slower then whey protein?...read thisIf your still arguing your point Iím going to take you for a troll who just wants to argue for the sake of arguing
    Did I miss something in this article? Let me know which part of this article was making your point - not sure what you're referring to. And who said anything about a study showing meat breaking down slower than WPI, I know it does, what is your point?

  18. Quote Originally Posted by MusclesFrogs View Post
    What are you basing this on? You gave me no reason why it would be invalid, you just said it would be.
    Study design 101: you have to make caloric intakes equal. Otherwise, you can't determine whether or not the caloric difference or the supplement is making the difference. For someone wanting scientific validation, you are severely lacking knowledge on how to properly design a study.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys


  19. Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    Study design 101: you have to make caloric intakes equal. Otherwise, you can't determine whether or not the caloric difference or the supplement is making the difference. For someone wanting scientific validation, you are severely lacking knowledge on how to properly design a study.
    Sorry, you're misinformed. When the point of the study is to test whether caloric intake as well as other macronutrients found in meats actually helps contribute to muscle growth/size vs WPI and its low caloric value, then there is no need for this. That's like saying I want to test a weight loss study testing high calorie diet vs a low calorie diet...but the calories need to be the same. Flawed logic.

  20. Quote Originally Posted by MusclesFrogs View Post
    Did I miss something in this article? Let me know which part of this article was making your point - not sure what you're referring to. And who said anything about a study showing meat breaking down slower than WPI, I know it does, what is your point?
    are you Glawry reincarnate?
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  21. Quote Originally Posted by McCrew530 View Post
    are you Glawry reincarnate?
    Are you able to respond to my questions without adhominem?

  22. Quote Originally Posted by MusclesFrogs View Post
    Sorry, you're misinformed. When the point of the study is to test whether caloric intake as well as other macronutrients found in meats actually helps contribute to muscle growth/size vs WPI and its low caloric value, then there is no need for this. That's like saying I want to test a weight loss study testing high calorie diet vs a low calorie diet...but the calories need to be the same. Flawed logic.
    I give up with you.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys


  23. Quote Originally Posted by MusclesFrogs View Post
    Are you able to respond to my questions without adhominem?
    Ill take that as a yes
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  24. Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    I give up with you.
    You're allowed to give up. Doesn't mean a legitimate answer has been given.

  25. Quote Originally Posted by McCrew530 View Post
    Ill take that as a yes
    Crew, you sent me an article that in no way discussed being able to fully substitute WPI for meat with the same result, and yet you sent it saying this answers everything and if I question that Im a troll. You can't just send irrelevant things and expect people to clap.
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