Protein powder vs Meat

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  1. First of all, no eggs in protein shakes, Im talking about pure whey isolate only. And n, for a month, there would be no vegetables. Atkins doesn't encourage vegetables, you can have a tinnnnny amount of green lettuce before you breach your 20 carbs a day rule. But many people skip veggies all together, and you would have to for this.


  2. Re: fiber - maybe each participant would be allowed some beneful (fiber mix drink) - youd obviously have to work out the fine details, but on the macro, there's no problem with this study for a month.
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by MusclesFrogs View Post
    First of all, no eggs in protein shakes, Im talking about pure whey isolate only. And n, for a month, there would be no vegetables. Atkins doesn't encourage vegetables, you can have a tinnnnny amount of green lettuce before you breach your 20 carbs a day rule. But many people skip veggies all together, and you would have to for this.
    I didn't say eggs in protein shakes; I said that there would be a large caloric difference in 30g of protein from whole eggs vs 30g protein from WPI. You can eat over a pound of broccoli per day and not exceed 20g of carbs.

    Your idea is far from practical and you have to realize that what you want is impossible to design in a study. There are a myriad of variables that you'd have to account for and the adherence rate would be so low that it would negate the results. Nobody is encouraging only using WPI as their sole protein source as that makes no sense. A huge part of the reason for protein shakes is practicality in that it is difficult for most to consume the protein they need from just whole foods.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys


  4. Quote Originally Posted by MusclesFrogs View Post
    Re: fiber - maybe each participant would be allowed some beneful (fiber mix drink) - youd obviously have to work out the fine details, but on the macro, there's no problem with this study for a month.
    Did you read the link that I posted at the begining of this thread?
    SNS REP
    Hit me up with any questions any time.

  5. Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    I didn't say eggs in protein shakes; I said that there would be a large caloric difference in 30g of protein from whole eggs vs 30g protein from WPI. You can eat over a pound of broccoli per day and not exceed 20g of carbs.Your idea is far from practical and you have to realize that what you want is impossible to design in a study. There are a myriad of variables that you'd have to account for and the adherence rate would be so low that it would negate the results. Nobody is encouraging only using WPI as their sole protein source as that makes no sense. A huge part of the reason for protein shakes is practicality in that it is difficult for most to consume the protein they need from just whole foods.
    20g of Carbs in one stock of brocolli, regardless, veggies are not required in Atkins. And I know there would be a large caloric difference between eggs and WPI same with steak and WPI - that's what the study is about, to see if that actually effects the rate/size of muscle growth. We're measuring only muscle mass, not overall mass, so if you gain fat, it's irrelevant. It's absurd to call a simple study like the impossible to design. You need to read the complexity of most modern studies, this is child's play comparatively. And I know nobody is encouraging only WPI, but that is because everyone blindly thinks they MUST use it only as a supplement instead of a primarily because they hear enough people saying it - but there's no study (that I've seen) - and if there is, great, I have no horse in the race. Just curious about the results, and I don't take information from anecdotal sources and heresay.

  6. Quote Originally Posted by McCrew530 View Post
    Did you read the link that I posted at the begining of this thread?
    Yes, I read it, and all well and good, but I'd like to see a study that proves it. Right now it's just words.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by MusclesFrogs View Post
    20g of Carbs in one stock of brocolli, regardless, veggies are not required in Atkins. And I know there would be a large caloric difference between eggs and WPI same with steak and WPI - that's what the study is about, to see if that actually effects the rate/size of muscle growth. We're measuring only muscle mass, not overall mass, so if you gain fat, it's irrelevant. It's absurd to call a simple study like the impossible to design. You need to read the complexity of most modern studies, this is child's play comparatively. And I know nobody is encouraging only WPI, but that is because everyone blindly thinks they MUST use it only as a supplement instead of a primarily because they hear enough people saying it - but there's no study (that I've seen) - and if there is, great, I have no horse in the race. Just curious about the results, and I don't take information from anecdotal sources and heresay.
    Let me try this again: what would you propose to make up for the caloric difference? You can't make comparisons amongst groups with different caloric consumption.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys


  8. Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    Let me try this again: what would you propose to make up for the caloric difference? You can't make comparisons amongst groups with different caloric consumption.
    Yes, you can. If calories in the meat are increasing muscle mass moreso than the WPI alone - then there's your answer, meat is more effective. However if the calories are only adding to the fat/overall mass as compared to WPI, then it's not relevant.

  9. Quote Originally Posted by MusclesFrogs View Post
    Yes, you can. If calories in the meat are increasing muscle mass moreso than the WPI alone - then there's your answer, meat is more effective. However if the calories are only adding to the fat/overall mass as compared to WPI, then it's not relevant.
    Yeah....if you have one group consuming more calories than the other group, then the study design is completely flawed and irrelevant. You would need to have equal caloric intakes for the results to be valid.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys


  10. Quote Originally Posted by MusclesFrogs View Post
    Yes, I read it, and all well and good, but I'd like to see a study that proves it. Right now it's just words.
    A study that shows meat breaks down slower then whey protein?...
    read this
    http://www.menshealth.com/mhlists/gu...in/printer.php
    If your still arguing your point I’m going to take you for a troll who just wants to argue for the sake of arguing
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    Hit me up with any questions any time.
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  11. Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    Yeah....if you have one group consuming more calories than the other group, then the study design is completely flawed and irrelevant. You would need to have equal caloric intakes for the results to be valid.
    What are you basing this on? You gave me no reason why it would be invalid, you just said it would be.

  12. Quote Originally Posted by McCrew530 View Post
    A study that shows meat breaks down slower then whey protein?...read thisIf your still arguing your point Iím going to take you for a troll who just wants to argue for the sake of arguing
    Did I miss something in this article? Let me know which part of this article was making your point - not sure what you're referring to. And who said anything about a study showing meat breaking down slower than WPI, I know it does, what is your point?

  13. Quote Originally Posted by MusclesFrogs View Post
    What are you basing this on? You gave me no reason why it would be invalid, you just said it would be.
    Study design 101: you have to make caloric intakes equal. Otherwise, you can't determine whether or not the caloric difference or the supplement is making the difference. For someone wanting scientific validation, you are severely lacking knowledge on how to properly design a study.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys


  14. Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    Study design 101: you have to make caloric intakes equal. Otherwise, you can't determine whether or not the caloric difference or the supplement is making the difference. For someone wanting scientific validation, you are severely lacking knowledge on how to properly design a study.
    Sorry, you're misinformed. When the point of the study is to test whether caloric intake as well as other macronutrients found in meats actually helps contribute to muscle growth/size vs WPI and its low caloric value, then there is no need for this. That's like saying I want to test a weight loss study testing high calorie diet vs a low calorie diet...but the calories need to be the same. Flawed logic.

  15. Quote Originally Posted by MusclesFrogs View Post
    Did I miss something in this article? Let me know which part of this article was making your point - not sure what you're referring to. And who said anything about a study showing meat breaking down slower than WPI, I know it does, what is your point?
    are you Glawry reincarnate?
    SNS REP
    Hit me up with any questions any time.

  16. Quote Originally Posted by McCrew530 View Post
    are you Glawry reincarnate?
    Are you able to respond to my questions without adhominem?

  17. Quote Originally Posted by MusclesFrogs View Post
    Sorry, you're misinformed. When the point of the study is to test whether caloric intake as well as other macronutrients found in meats actually helps contribute to muscle growth/size vs WPI and its low caloric value, then there is no need for this. That's like saying I want to test a weight loss study testing high calorie diet vs a low calorie diet...but the calories need to be the same. Flawed logic.
    I give up with you.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys


  18. Quote Originally Posted by MusclesFrogs View Post
    Are you able to respond to my questions without adhominem?
    Ill take that as a yes
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    Hit me up with any questions any time.

  19. Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    I give up with you.
    You're allowed to give up. Doesn't mean a legitimate answer has been given.

  20. Quote Originally Posted by McCrew530 View Post
    Ill take that as a yes
    Crew, you sent me an article that in no way discussed being able to fully substitute WPI for meat with the same result, and yet you sent it saying this answers everything and if I question that Im a troll. You can't just send irrelevant things and expect people to clap.

  21. Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    I give up with you.
    Dude this guy just got banned and it looks like he made a new profile... Hes a troll nothing less
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    Hit me up with any questions any time.

  22. Quote Originally Posted by McCrew530 View Post
    Dude this guy just got banned and it looks like he made a new profile... Hes a troll nothing less
    I got banned? Check my IP man, never been on this site

  23. Quote Originally Posted by MusclesFrogs View Post
    I got banned? Check my IP man, never been on this site
    Though it is funny how people get angry and defensive when they don't have a legitimate answer, so instead they attack the guy. Giving bodybuilders a good name guys.

  24. They gave plenty of legitimate answers. More calories = more growth.

    If you give one group whole foods (meat + eggs) and another only WPI the caloric total will not be the same.

    If the caloric total is not the same then it is more likely the growth from the meat group (or lack thereof with the WPI group) comes from the total calorie difference; not the protein source.

  25. Quote Originally Posted by jimbuick View Post
    They gave plenty of legitimate answers. More calories = more growth.If you give one group whole foods (meat + eggs) and another only WPI the caloric total will not be the same.If the caloric total is not the same then it is more likely the growth from the meat group (or lack thereof with the WPI group) comes from the total calorie difference; not the protein source.
    Hi Jim, you are saying more calories = more growth. I'm asking for a study that proves that. Obviously more calories will give you more mass, but will it be more muscle mass or just more fat mass than WPI of the same protein levels. You're saying "more likely" - that's been my whole point. There are a lot of guys on here saying "more likely" - but none of them have been able to point to a scientific study. That is the whole reason for this thread is to separate conjecture from scientific fact backed by evidence.

  26. Quote Originally Posted by MusclesFrogs View Post
    Though it is funny how people get angry and defensive when they don't have a legitimate answer, so instead they attack the guy. Giving bodybuilders a good name guys.
    This is going to be my last answer to you and I hope it isn’t met with some crazy nonsense reply.
    Have you heard of the Velocity diet? read up on it people go on a 5 MULTI protine shake a day diet supplemented in with all the healthy nutrients that your body needs with 1 cheat meal a week and lose fat but they don’t gain muscle! Thus proving that a whey only consumption of protein is not beneficial for building muscle and here is a documented log for proof.
    http://www.rearickstrength.com/2011/...city-diet.html
    SNS REP
    Hit me up with any questions any time.

  27. Crew, look, stop threatening that you're going to leave the conversation - it doesn't matter to me whether you're here or not - that doesn't lend any validity to the points you're trying to make, it just means you don't have the patience or resources to back up your claims. With regards to what you're saying about velocity is completely unfounded. Since Im a newb here it won't let me link articles in posts, but just google "velocity diet muscle gain" and you'll see many articles saying exactly the opposite of what you proposed here. Yeah, people won't gain muscle if they do the velocity diet...and don't work out. You need to lift to gain, that's not the question. The people who lifted on the velocity diet, gained muscle. What you're proposing is nonsense - you're saying if you lift weights everyday and drink a ton of protein shakes, but no fruits veggies or carbs you won't gain muscle - eye roll. Please. You're scraping here. Guys here's the thing, I don't know why everyone is getting DEFENSIVE. Why would it have an emotional effect on you? All I want to know is if there has been a scientific study. It's a yes or no answer. I don't want your opinions or conjecture, I just want a link pointing to a legitimate scientific study proving one way or the other if WPI is more or less effective than meats/eggs alone in building muscle mass. That is all. Black and white. Either you have a link or you don't. If you don't, then in the scientific community's eyes, there's no real evidence. If you do, wonderful.

  28. Quote Originally Posted by MusclesFrogs View Post
    Crew, look, stop threatening that you're going to leave the conversation - it doesn't matter to me whether you're here or not - that doesn't lend any validity to the points you're trying to make, it just means you don't have the patience or resources to back up your claims. With regards to what you're saying about velocity is completely unfounded. Since Im a newb here it won't let me link articles in posts, but just google "velocity diet muscle gain" and you'll see many articles saying exactly the opposite of what you proposed here. Yeah, people won't gain muscle if they do the velocity diet...and don't work out. You need to lift to gain, that's not the question. The people who lifted on the velocity diet, gained muscle. What you're proposing is nonsense - you're saying if you lift weights everyday and drink a ton of protein shakes, but no fruits veggies or carbs you won't gain muscle - eye roll. Please. You're scraping here. Guys here's the thing, I don't know why everyone is getting DEFENSIVE. Why would it have an emotional effect on you? All I want to know is if there has been a scientific study. It's a yes or no answer. I don't want your opinions or conjecture, I just want a link pointing to a legitimate scientific study proving one way or the other if WPI is more or less effective than meats/eggs alone in building muscle mass. That is all. Black and white. Either you have a link or you don't. If you don't, then in the scientific community's eyes, there's no real evidence. If you do, wonderful.
    Do you even lift?

    Or are you one of those guys that tells other people how to lift based solely on a study?

    Serious question.

  29. Quote Originally Posted by jimbuick View Post
    Do you even lift?

    Or are you one of those guys that tells other people how to lift based solely on a study?

    Serious question.
    I lift.

  30. Quote Originally Posted by MusclesFrogs View Post

    I lift.
    Bro
  

  
 

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