Pro and post workout shakes.
- 11-09-2008, 12:49 PM
Pro and post workout shakes.
ok for about the past week ive been doing pre and post workout shakes opposed to just post work out ones. Im wondering if im doing them healthy/correctly because i feel much more bloated/fat.
pre-work out) orange juice, bananas, strawberries, blueberries. and then i usually eat a good piece of pineapple. 30-45mins before workout
post-work out) bananas, little non-fat plain yogurt, peanut butter, 50g protein, non fat milk.
just wondering if their healthy? what i can do to make them healthier? how long before i work out should i drink the pre-shake? and is only one shake (post) necessary?
thanks guys any info would be greatly appreciated.
- 11-09-2008, 01:30 PM
Looks good. Blend the pineapple with the shake to help it digest better, and add some protein in there.
Drop the Peanut-butter from the PWO shake, you want it to digest quickly and fat slows it down.
Timing is subjective, try anywhere from 45-15 mins pre-WO and see how you feel. You want it to be digesting so that you're getting the energy, but not impeding your workout.
PWO Shakes aren't strictly necessary, however they are great ways to get in fast carbs/pro. There is some good research supporting 2 PWO shakes . One immediately PWO, and one an hour after that, which further stimulates muscle growth. I still say PWO shake immediately after, then solid meal about 60-90 minutes after that depending on how big your shake is/your exercise intensity.
Feel free to ask for further clarifications, you asked like 5 diff questions lol
- 11-09-2008, 01:44 PM
Drop all fruit. It doesn't cause an insulin response. I guess it'd be ok pre workout but it actually slows digestion post workout. EAt complex carbs pre workout for more energy. I like to have tuna and oats pre workout and dextrose and whey protein shake PWO.
You could have a whey protein shake pre workout too but it's not necessary, milk slows digestion because it's 80% casein. Mix the whey with water for quicker absorption.
11-09-2008, 01:52 PM
11-09-2008, 04:13 PM
11-09-2008, 04:42 PM
ok so if i keep the pre workout shake as is, adding very little protien then that one is set. I also eat oatmeal about 30mins before work out, good? and what are some complex carbs i should add to my pre workout diet?
Now for the post workout, if I dont want milk or peanut butter in the shake what should i put with my 50gs of protein?
thanks again guys
11-09-2008, 04:53 PM
complex carbs pre workout, like wheat bread. shoot for 50-75g. 25g of protein pre workout as well. pre workout is absolutely crucial to gaining size - anyone that tells you different is an endomorph.
Pre-Workout more important than Post Workout?
post workout should be the fast digesting carbs - WMS, dextrose, etc, with whatever protein you think you need - 30-35 is best for me. i usually hit 125g carbs post workout, which is overkill for most people.
11-09-2008, 04:57 PM
Milk is fine PWO, especially skim. PWO alot of people like to do fast/carbs, although even grinding up oats into a shake works. The fast carbs aren't absolutely necessary, although they help with recovery. It's probably the simplest way, and since you just work out your muscles will be screaming for the carbs, and you don't have to worry about storing it as fat.
11-09-2008, 07:20 PM
Fructose becomes an unregulated source of acetyl CoA which causes hyperlipidemia and insulin resistance thusly causing a decrease of protein synthesis because the body won't respond as well to insulin.
Check this out
Oats are complex carbs that's good pre workout. Mix your protein powder in water for faster absorption.
11-09-2008, 07:51 PM
11-09-2008, 08:27 PM
I guess the simple answer to the second part of your question would be that when you exercise your body uses blood and muscle glucose which would return it to baseline.
11-09-2008, 09:54 PM
Thus all macronutrients (alcohol is a bit different) lead to some insulin response with carbohydrate requiring the largest. BTW one cannot directly compare insulin responses to different macros. Hypothetically, take a 500kcal carb meal and a 500kcal fat meal that have the same digestion times. The carb meal will require more insulin to metabolise than the fat meal. That does not mean that the carb meal will lead to more fat gain because the same amount of energy has been consumed and energy is conserved. This is why I am always saying that non-diabetics discussing insulin for body comp management is a waste of time.
Another angle that I will throw in here is how do we know what macro the body uses for what task? For the majority of people, basic metabolism is their major energy expenditure. If a fruit is 50/50 fructose/glucose, who says the fructose can't fuel metabolism and the glucose goes to muscle glycogen. Maybe I just haven't seen any studies...
11-09-2008, 10:48 PM
"The body's only mechanism for this is insulin."
I'm not sure what your getting at here. When blood glucose levels are raised an insulin response follows. This insulin spike sends the nutrients to the muscles and at a faster rate.
Insulin is one of the most anabolic hormones in the body and is most definitely not a waste of time for non diabetes.
Certain thinks have certain jobs and follow a certain path to do said job. The diagram I believe shows this if not I'll find something else or try to explain this better.
I'm not 100% on some of this but I'm about 80+.
11-10-2008, 12:02 AM
PS - I am not picking on you. I am pretty sure that I have read the same types of articles that you have. This is a good learning discussion for exposing, what I feel is, popular misinformation.
11-10-2008, 12:54 AM
fruit is great. but in moderation (just like anything else). drop the sugar just a tad. if you really want carbs pre/post workout i like waxy maize starch. however if your going low/no carb i like nuts and peanut butter (by naturally more). of course mix this with 1-1.5-2 scoops of protein.
11-10-2008, 07:09 AM
It takes large amounts of fructose over time to cause insulin resistance. What I'm saying is that fructose doesn't raise blood glucose and doesn't cause an insulin response. But that the glucose you eat after does cause an insulin response and blood glucose to raise. What is there to return to normal if nothing is changed by fructose? The only place in the body it's used is the liver.
I know you're not picking on my nor am I you, just a learning discussion.
11-10-2008, 10:33 AM
The same goes for insulin, the more calories you consume, the more insulin your body will have to produce to metabolise it. So if you are trying to gauge how much food you need by your insulin levels, how do you measure it? You can't. You're only guessing and if you guess wrong you either eat too little (catabolic) or too much (excess fat gain).
In order to be anabolic (building complex structures from simple structures) your body needs a net surplus of energy in addition to raw materials. That means that you need to know quantities. 'Some' dextrose could be one teaspoon or one cup, big difference.
I may be incorrectly assuming that peeps here are familiar with classical physics energy and thermodynamic laws. These concepts apply to all known systems including the human body. A couple reads that are written in the human metabolism context:
So it is just as important to know HOW MUCH in addition to WHAT (you eat). Since the average person has absolutely no way to measure his/her insulin level, it has no practicable use. However, you can readily determine the energy content of a serving of food by measuring the quantity and cross referencing it with a database.
Need more convincing? I assume that you are familiar with the glycemic index. If not here is a read:
Specifically: GI is a measure of the effects of carbohydrates on blood glucose levels.
Do a search for the GI value of fructose. You should find that it is around 35. This is a non-zero value. By comparison dextrose/glucose is 100. That means that fructose has about 1/3 the effect on blood glucose of pure dextrose/glucose NOT no effect. Again, if it goes up, insulin must be produced to bring it back down.
These reasons are why I argued against your post that fruit cannot trigger insulin response.
11-12-2008, 10:03 PM
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