Poll: post workout carbs- crucial yes or no

post workout carbs- crucial yes or no

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    post workout carbs- crucial yes or no


    Thinking of ditching post-workout carbs. I am not sure that carbohydrates in the post-workout period are needed and there is research that they have no impact or may even be counter-productive.


    Not sure what I want to follow-

    1. Just Protein, no carbs, no fat
    2. Protein and fat

    Looking for thoughts...

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    Depends on your goals. If performance is your concern, then you need carbs. Aesthetics varies from person to person.
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    as far as Im aware, you need carbs to spike insulin and drive protein into the muscles
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    Quote Originally Posted by jakellpet View Post
    as far as Im aware, you need carbs to spike insulin and drive protein into the muscles
    Not true. Insulin secretion is not carb exclusive. Leucine for example also elicits an insulin response.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    Not true. Insulin secretion is not carb exclusive. Leucine for example also elicits an insulin response.
    Didn't know that. So in your opinion, what would you recommend dosage-wise for someone of my size?
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    Quote Originally Posted by jakellpet View Post
    Didn't know that. So in your opinion, what would you recommend dosage-wise for someone of my size?
    Of Luecine? 5g would be plenty to kickstart protein synthesis and glycogen synthesis. Carbs are necessary, IMO, but you do not need high GI carbs.
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    I honestly belive anything in the likes of the following is fine for shuttling aminos to muscles and to spike insulin. I may try WMS one day, but i believe items such as oats, bananas, etc are just as good.

    1. whey + 1/2C oats
    2. whey + banana
    3. whey + 1/2C rice / rice cakes
    4. whey + gatorade powder (never done it ,but assume its decent)
    5. when + danon lite-n-fit yogurt

    etc....etc...

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    Of Luecine? 5g would be plenty to kickstart protein synthesis and glycogen synthesis. Carbs are necessary, IMO, but you do not need high GI carbs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by msucurt View Post
    I honestly belive anything in the likes of the following is fine for shuttling aminos to muscles and to spike insulin. I may try WMS one day, but i believe items such as oats, bananas, etc are just as good.

    1. whey + 1/2C oats
    2. whey + banana
    3. whey + 1/2C rice / rice cakes
    4. whey + gatorade powder (never done it ,but assume its decent)
    5. when + danon lite-n-fit yogurt

    etc....etc...
    You should try Vitargo or Karbolyn, it'll change your mind real quick.

    Isn't glycogen replacement a key issue for most?
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    It's my opinion that a huge insulin spike pwo is way overrated. Generally speaking, of course, since it depends on the individual and the duration/intensity of the workout.
    After a heavy leg day, for example, it's a must have for me or I could pass out or have lasting depletion. After an average arm day however, slamming 75g of simple sugar seems completely redundant. I'm not denying the faster assimilation of protein, but having ditched this method for some time now I feel it has affected my gains not in the least. Unless I truly feel depleted, my pwo carbs is a glass of grape juice or gatorade(~30-40g carbs) to transport 10-15g of creatine, then protein, then meal containing slower carbs 1 hour later.
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    please tell me why? I dont think the GI has anything to do with insulin response. I think WMS is good, but i do believe oats + whey is pretty solid too.

    thanks

    Quote Originally Posted by Usf97j4x4 View Post
    You should try Vitargo or Karbolyn, it'll change your mind real quick.

    Isn't glycogen replacement a key issue for most?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usf97j4x4 View Post
    You should try Vitargo or Karbolyn, it'll change your mind real quick.

    Isn't glycogen replacement a key issue for most?
    Glycogen replenishment is a process that occurs throughout the day, not in a single feeding.
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    I prefer a mix of slow and fast digesting carbs.. I usually have 25 grams whey with 20 grams of dextrose, then I down 2 slices of whole sprouted wheat berry bread with 1 tbsp of peanut butter. MMmm!
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    Quote Originally Posted by ozarkaBRAND View Post
    I prefer a mix of slow and fast digesting carbs.. I usually have 25 grams whey with 20 grams of dextrose, then I down 2 slices of whole sprouted wheat berry bread with 1 tbsp of peanut butter. MMmm!
    I always split mine - have the low GI carbs about an hour postWO. I'm looking to move away from 'empty calorie' sources though - move towards dry fruit etc..
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    Im kind of like that too. For my carbs PWO, i would rather consume something in the likes of bananas, grapes, pears, rice, dried fruits, apples, etc ....but again, i havent tried WMS or VITARGO yet either.

    Quote Originally Posted by jakellpet View Post
    I always split mine - have the low GI carbs about an hour postWO. I'm looking to move away from 'empty calorie' sources though - move towards dry fruit etc..
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    There is nothing essential about a carbohydrate and you don't need to consume them post workout. Especially when the bodies primary fuel source is fat (such as those who have been on a CKD), research has shown that IGF-1 shuttles glycogen into the muscles post workout when no carbs are present. However, if your main fuel source is carbohydrates I would definately recommend that they are consumed in the post workout period. I'll try to dig around and find that study somewhere.
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    I get better results when not having carbs PWO....
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    post carbs


    I find that a blend of proteins + fiberous carbs such as (applesauce) post workout, along with some dextrose works efficiently to better absorb nutrients post workout...
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    PW carbs aren't "crucial", but they are beneficial.
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    I always have you have my Waximaize followed by protein 30 minutes later, or I feel guilty... almost like i'm not getting as much as a could have out of my workout.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CryingEmo View Post
    I get better results when not having carbs PWO....
    I agree.

    Although, sometimes i do need some carbs to overcome slight hypoglycemic feelings. I use ~35g Whey + ~15g Casein + 1/4 - 1/2c Oats and maybe a tad of honey.

    I do not see the need to detonate your pancreas post workout.
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    I drink a half gallon of skim milk right after my workout. Just enough protein and sugar to make it all work out.
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    when i was bulking i used to consume a 100g or so of fast digesting carbs like sugar and dextrose PW... It def seemed to help with recovery and gains, however i added some serious bodyfat

    now i keep it to 20-30g if any at all and focus more on protein... several amino's elicit an insulin response as well as rodja said so i'm more inclined to chug some xtend PW and then my shake, than maxing on carbs
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    protein + fat pwo.

    .....and rodja speaks the truth.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hank Vangut View Post
    protein + fat pwo.

    .....and rodja speaks the truth.
    Advocate for dietary fat post workout?
    Please Explain!
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    Quote Originally Posted by borobulker View Post
    Advocate for dietary fat post workout?
    Please Explain!
    1. fat slows digestion and leads to a more efficient and steady amino absorbtion rate.
    whey + carbs will quickly increases anabolism, but these effects are very short lived and shown to be wasteful. although amino acid concentration do increase quickly with whey + carbs, oxidation rates also increased, creating a steady state catabolism in which there is no change in overall protein balance.

    2. fats are needed to produce testesterone and other hormones required for muscle building. post-workout, the body is scrambling to keep testosterone levels from dropping too low due to the rise in cortisol levels (the two hormones exist in a see-saw fashion; as one rises the other drops, and vice-a-versa).

    3. fat helps maintain consistent and steady insulin levels. increased/spiked insulin output blunts growth hormone release that should naturally be occurring post workout.

    4. a recent study compared the effect of whole milk, and a higher dose of fat-free milk (to match the calories of the whole milk) taken 60 minutes post-resistance exercise. whole milk was superior for increasing net protein balance despite the fact that the calorie matched dose of fat free milk contained more protein (14.5g protein, versus 8.0g in the whole milk -an 81% advantage).

    the ideal pwo meal in my opinion is a mixture of casein + whey + fat.
    Last edited by Hank Vangut; 09-11-2008 at 12:57 PM.
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    I'm an advocate of Whey + blend of simple and complex carbs + 1tbsp natty pb.

    I'm likin' it.
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    some of the recommendations are just broscience...passed around from one forum to another.

    these are clips from an article by Alan Aragon.

    http://user210805.websitewizard.com/...R-Jan-2008.pdf



    what i do is:
    regular meal 2-3 hours before
    banana or other fruit + whey preworkout
    bcaa during
    oatmeal, whey, peanut butter afterwards
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    Quote Originally Posted by ndnguy85 View Post
    these are clips from an article by Alan Aragon.
    alan used to post over here.
    i get his monthly publication....very quality.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hank Vangut View Post

    the ideal pwo meal in my opinion is a mixture of casein + whey + fat.
    Could you give me an example of your PWO meal.

    Something like this perhaps.....

    25g casein
    25g whey
    1 TBSP Natty PB

    20g casein
    20g whey
    2 TBSP Natty PB


    THANKS
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    my trainer who is diesel and used to compete has me on
    60 g waxy maize + 6 grams BCAA immediately post w/o.
    15 minutes later I do 40 grams whey or 20 grams whey and 1 scoop N-Large (that I bought for 75% off)

    i have no intention of getting to be his size, but I am still trying to recomp (though I am in a deficit at the moment.)
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    Quote Originally Posted by msucurt View Post
    Could you give me an example of your PWO meal.

    Something like this perhaps.....

    25g casein
    25g whey
    1 TBSP Natty PB

    20g casein
    20g whey
    2 TBSP Natty PB


    THANKS
    currntly i do 2 cups 2% milk + 2 scoops ultra peptide 2.0

    on a budget i do 2 cups 2% milk + 2 scoops whey concentrate + 2tbsp natty pb.
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    Quote Originally Posted by edwards View Post
    my trainer who is diesel and used to compete has me on
    60 g waxy maize + 6 grams BCAA immediately post w/o.
    15 minutes later I do 40 grams whey or 20 grams whey and 1 scoop N-Large (that I bought for 75% off)

    i have no intention of getting to be his size, but I am still trying to recomp (though I am in a deficit at the moment.)
    this would be an excellent pwo protocol for me if i was on tons of gear.
    unfortunatly i am not on using, so it would just make me :donut:.
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    I am moderately lactose intolerant so milk is totally out of the question!

    Thanks for the info Hank!!!
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    Sounds to me like milk and eggs win again.
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    Hank, would you recommend the following if one could afford it?

    2Cups 2%milk
    1scoop casein
    1scoop whey isolate
    2tbsp natty pb

    The macros for this would come out to the following:
    protein = 69 (45g from powders & 16g from milk & 8g from pb)
    carbs = 36 (4g from powders & 26g from milk & 6g from pb)
    fat = 26 (16g from pb & 10g from milk)

    or is that overkill? If so, how should i reduced this down?

    thanks man

    Quote Originally Posted by Hank Vangut View Post
    currntly i do 2 cups 2% milk + 2 scoops ultra peptide 2.0

    on a budget i do 2 cups 2% milk + 2 scoops whey concentrate + 2tbsp natty pb.
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    comments??

    Quote Originally Posted by msucurt View Post
    Hank, would you recommend the following if one could afford it?

    2Cups 2%milk
    1scoop casein
    1scoop whey isolate
    2tbsp natty pb

    The macros for this would come out to the following:
    protein = 69 (45g from powders & 16g from milk & 8g from pb)
    carbs = 36 (4g from powders & 26g from milk & 6g from pb)
    fat = 26 (16g from pb & 10g from milk)

    or is that overkill? If so, how should i reduced this down?

    thanks man
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    I prefer either a whey casien blended protien with a decent amount of carbs (30g high GI or +60g low GI), as well as a good healthy fat source like natty PB.

    If not then just fast absorbing protien with milk (at least 2 cups) and again in a couple hours.... Protien should be taken in decent amounts at least 30min post and then again bout 2-3 hours later. I prefer the first to be a shake like was mentioned earlier (60g/1cup blended oats, 1 bannana, 2tbsp natty PB, 2 cups of milk, 35-60gs of protien) and then a full balanced meal 2-3 hours later.

    I also use AP and pslin regularly, this definately is my savior when it comes to keeping carbs from spilling over into fat stores.
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    Are u serious, and if so, please explain. Although i do like the idea (lowfat milk has quality proteins + sugars), so i dont see why not.

    Give me your reasoning behind this PWO drink. Basically, it looks too easy.

    thanks

    Quote Originally Posted by TripDog View Post
    I drink a half gallon of skim milk right after my workout. Just enough protein and sugar to make it all work out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by msucurt View Post
    Are u serious, and if so, please explain. Although i do like the idea (lowfat milk has quality proteins + sugars), so i dont see why not.

    Give me your reasoning behind this PWO drink. Basically, it looks too easy.

    thanks
    He is - I asked him.

    You could look at it from this angle: why wouldn't it work?

    Sometimes the simplest ideas are the best!
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    I used to think I NEEDED to spike insulin post workout. Lately I've been taking a scoop of PW,35g waxy,and 5g crea mono during my workout and then when I get home I'll have an Ezekiel bread chicken sandwhich,some carrots,almonds,and 4oz grape juice.

    I'm not saying carbs are essential postworkout but I can't imagine not eating carbs after a workout.
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