how much protein is too much?

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    how much protein is too much?


    i'm sure there is a thread on this subject already - i just can't find it. i've heard that 20-30g of protein is the maximum that can be absorbed at a time. thats also from one source though. i know GNC (evil ba$tards) tells me up to 50g. so here's the question:

    if you mix multiple protein sources - egg, whey, pea protein, soy protein, milk, etc, can you absorb 20-30g PER SOURCE, i.e. up to 100g of protein absorbed per serving?

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    I'm pretty sure it varies from person to person and dependent on what physical activities you do through out the day. I tend to not go over 50g a meal. I just eat around 50g for about 3-4 meals that day. I'm not really sure, good question tho.
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    BLASPHEMY!

    There is no such thing as too much protein!!!

    Seriously though I have no ****ing clue, I eat anywhere from 40-100g per meal, doing good so far, always 25-50 grams from whey right before a meal and 25-80g from meat/organs, 4 X a day.
    •   
       

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    Some girl at work accused me of eating to much protein the other week while i was scoofing a chicken breast down. Apparently its bad for your kidneys, pffft

    sounds like rubbish to me. if i eat to much i just crap it out!
    “We are what we repeatedly do. Therefore, excellence is not an act, but a habit.”
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chub View Post
    Apparently its bad for your kidneys
    It can be very bad for your kidneys, make sure you drink a lot of water daily.
    "I am legally blind and if I can Squat,deadlift and over all get myself to the gym then anyone can get their a$$ in gear and get strong!!" - malleus25
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilentBob187 View Post
    It can be very bad for your kidneys, make sure you drink a lot of water daily.
    I always like to keep my pees nice and clear
    “We are what we repeatedly do. Therefore, excellence is not an act, but a habit.”
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    You should be good then.
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    good clip from a related article......

    I know it's en vogue to always tell people to eat more protein, but I haven't found that to be an effective strategy (importantly, I'm talking about men here. I've never worked with a female who ate too much protein).

    I've worked with many athletes who consume 1.5 or more grams per pound of body weight, and many of these athletes hire me to lean them up. If you're consuming that much protein and can't lose fat, it's likely that your body's using protein for energy. This is a problem because it keeps your body from getting its energy from its fat reserves.

    These athletes are often shocked when I lower their protein intake. Sometimes I lower it to one gram per pound, other times I'll lower it even further. This almost always helps them lose fat, while increasing their energy.

    Back in the day, I remember reading an article by Dan Duchaine that said that overeating any macronutrient can make you fat. My 19 year-old mind was certain he was wrong. After all, more protein can't keep you from getting lean, right? Wrong.

    Bottom line: Increasing your protein intake to one gram per pound of body weight can be beneficial. But unless you're expending a huge amount of energy every day (think NBA basketball player), more protein probably won't help, and it could have the reverse effect by keeping you from getting lean.
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    by taking mass doses you are just encouraging your body to absorb all that it can. the only problem for me is that i eat so many carbs its hard to get in all the protein so i do 2-3 shakes a day. i try not to let protein effect my carb intake and vice versa!
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilentBob187 View Post
    You should be good then.
    so hows the water sort me out. Just like by flushing my system out all day long?
    “We are what we repeatedly do. Therefore, excellence is not an act, but a habit.”
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    another clip from our dear friend dinoii....

    I'm actually going to respond indirectly versus to direct questions in this one as I am asked this question rather frequently actually.

    The prototypical route this one is asked is:
    "I've heard that you can't absorb more than ___grams of protein per meal. Is this true?"

    Fill in the blank with the number of the hour for whichever magazine or suggested expert the question-asker seems to be quoting.

    There are so MANY variables that dictate the answer, however, and I suppose if it were that easy then it wouldn't tend to lead to so many myths, right? See - even if only a certain number is absorbed, the quotation fails to consider how many amino acids may be required at any one particular time. Also, protein turnover rates also differ for different people.

    Further still, let's say you are "cutting" - if you consume too many grams (especially in a reduced-carbohydrate state), you could very well be supplying gluconeogenic pathways (opposite of your goal). On the contrary, if you are consuming too few, you could be placing yourself at a distinct disadvantage in "cutting" or "bulking" due to both caloric deprivation and/or protein turnover requirements to maintain a positive nitrogen balance.

    It does NOT matter if you understand all the terms I referenced above! What is important is that you see the question is NOT remotely as easy as either your nutrition profressors, and/or magazine article writers, and/or "gurus" on the net will make it. In fact, quite far from it.



    D_
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    Good excerpt article Hank, glad you're doing a log again!
    "I am legally blind and if I can Squat,deadlift and over all get myself to the gym then anyone can get their a$$ in gear and get strong!!" - malleus25
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilentBob187 View Post
    Good excerpt article Hank, glad you're doing a log again!
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    wow. hank, you are my hero. great post.
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    400g a day should be maximum for 170-240 Lbs
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    Quote Originally Posted by suncloud View Post
    i'm sure there is a thread on this subject already - i just can't find it. i've heard that 20-30g of protein is the maximum that can be absorbed at a time. thats also from one source though. i know GNC (evil ba$tards) tells me up to 50g. so here's the question:

    if you mix multiple protein sources - egg, whey, pea protein, soy protein, milk, etc, can you absorb 20-30g PER SOURCE, i.e. up to 100g of protein absorbed per serving?
    that 20-30g is from a study on egg protein. So 25g of ingested egg protein is gone from your system in about an hour. That doesn't mean more cant do good. Particularly because there is a difference between digestion time and passing thru bloodstream time. So dont worry about it so much, eat as much as you want
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    I generally don't exceed 50 per meal and shoot for 1-1.5 g/lb of bodyweight depending on what macro breakdown im going for
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    Quote Originally Posted by g37SkylineGTR View Post
    400g a day should be maximum for 170-240 Lbs
    Absolute crazy

    The maximum should be no more than 2g protein per kg of bodyweight. That's your optimum requirement. Going above this limit is a complete waste of time and money. It would be more advisable to make sure you are consuming enough carbohydrates to support your existing muscle mass (people seem to under-estimate this quite badly from my experience)

    Excess protein cannot be stored as muscle. All that will happen is the excess protein will get converted to glucose to be used as an energy subsrate or you will basically piss it out.

    The nitrogen containing amino group of the protein is converted into urea which is then passed to the kidneys where it is excreted in the urine

    The remainder of it is converted into glucose and can either be stored as gylcogen or used immediately as fuel. Depends on your body's requirements at that particular time. If glycogen stores a full there is a chance that the excess glucose (originally the protein) may be sotred as fat.

    Just out of interest i gained this information from starting a diploma in sports nutrition. It shocked the **** out of me...with how different the information in it was to the information that i'd read in 'bodybuilding magazines' etc.

    I was skeptical about lowering my protein intake (amongst other things) but without exageration the progress has been so much better it's untrue
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    Quote Originally Posted by ono View Post
    The remainder of it is converted into glucose and can either be stored as gylcogen or used immediately as fuel. Depends on your body's requirements at that particular time. If glycogen stores a full there is a chance that the excess glucose (originally the protein) may be sotred as fat.
    how is that any different from taking in the same extra calories in carbs? beyond the fact that taking it as protein causes minimal insulin response unlike carbs?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chub View Post
    Some girl at work accused me of eating to much protein the other week while i was scoofing a chicken breast down. Apparently its bad for your kidneys, pffft

    sounds like rubbish to me. if i eat to much i just crap it out!
    My mom said the same thing. She said that there was some report where too much protein can hurt your liver and kidneys significantly, to which I replied, "Bull****." Show me research. Show me tests. It's the same kind of people that say this that also say "steroids will kill you" and "energy drinks are terrible for you". It's misinformation, and it's terribly irresponsible. And it pisses me off.
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    So, the next logical arguement in this thread is:

    Have any of you LOWERED your protein intake and seen improved body compostion results in comparison to your previous consumption? Say, going from 200 g/day to like 120 g/day . . . but thats just an arbitrary reference point
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    i believe if when you pee and have lots of bubbles your excreting protein in the form of urea,

    now if thats happening and you lower ur protein by 5g every meal and the bubbles go away, then thats your optimum protein intake,

    i think the general rul of thumb is not to go above 50g per meal,

    your body will absorb what it needs. andything it doesnt need will be converted tofat
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilentBob187 View Post
    It can be very bad for your kidneys, make sure you drink a lot of water daily.
    uhhhh is there such a thing as water-to-protein ratio? say i have 192g protein (by the trusty 1g per pound) a day... do i need to drink a certain amount of water just to deal with that amount of protein? It sounds bad, but the one thing I reliably forget to do is drink enough water during the day.

    AND

    is the 1g per pound the amount i should eat regardless, or is that more of a "if you are building" number?

    thanks
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    1g a lb is more than adequate for building/rebuilding muscles - that isn't saying bulking, thats if you do weightlifting in general. you can probably go down as low as .8g and still manage to build/rebuild muscle, and if you aren't particularly doing much resistance work as low as .6g/lb is enough to maintain muscle mass
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hank Vangut View Post
    another clip from our dear friend dinoii....

    There are so MANY variables that dictate the answer, however, and I suppose if it were that easy then it wouldn't tend to lead to so many myths, right? See - even if only a certain number is absorbed, the quotation fails to consider how many amino acids may be required at any one particular time. Also, protein turnover rates also differ for different people.
    Most significant statement in this thread.

    Your body will have a limit to how fast it can build lean tissue and is proportional to your size - there is no ONE answer. Protein supplied above this rate will be converted to glucose or fat for energy use or storage. Protein is an inefficient and expensive macro to use for energy hence IMO too much protein is when you start using it for energy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mister ed View Post
    uhhhh is there such a thing as water-to-protein ratio? say i have 192g protein (by the trusty 1g per pound) a day... do i need to drink a certain amount of water just to deal with that amount of protein? It sounds bad, but the one thing I reliably forget to do is drink enough water during the day.

    AND

    is the 1g per pound the amount i should eat regardless, or is that more of a "if you are building" number?

    thanks

    if you eat a lot of protein i would say 2:1 protein to water ratio, and the water is in ounces and protein in grams
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    how is that any different from taking in the same extra calories in carbs? beyond the fact that taking it as protein causes minimal insulin response unlike carbs?
    The severity of insulin response depends on the carbohydrate and the individual person (as you no doubnt know). Protein also produces an insulin response.

    The problem with fulfilling your carbohydrate requirements with protein would potentially be kidney damage because the amino group is removed from the amino acid and is converted to ammonia and then to urea (because ammonia is toxic). If too much urea passes through the kidneys, it can lead to kidney damage and water retention. It's the acid group that is converted to carbohydrate and excess acid can cause calcium to leach from the bones because it provides a buffer to alkalise the body's environment

    Another potential problem with getting the majority of your carbohydrate requirements from protein would be that you wouldn't be consuming other important nutrients which help with your performance not to mention the lack of fibre that would be present in your diet.

    In answer to your question, going slightly overboard with your protein requirements shouldn't stress your body too much...maybe with the exception of possible kidney damage if it's something that has happened over a long period of time.

    Personally i think carbohydrates are cheaper than protein sources anyway so i'm quite happy getting my energy needs mainly from carbohydrate. I do think there is a general misconception (not saying it's one you share) that excess protein can be stored directly as muscle in the same vain as carbohydrate and fat, and as a result of this people are skeptical about reducing their protein intake - for the fear of losing muscle.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mapshooter View Post
    So, the next logical arguement in this thread is:

    Have any of you LOWERED your protein intake and seen improved body compostion results in comparison to your previous consumption? Say, going from 200 g/day to like 120 g/day . . . but thats just an arbitrary reference point
    Yes

    I started my sports nutrition diploma and following the advice contained in the course, i reduced my protein intake from 250g per day to 140. I also (and this is what i feel is the important bit) i made sure muscle glycogen levels were as full as possible before training and i made sure i sufficiently re-fulled afterwards. Anyway without going into too much detail i added 3/4 inch onto my arms in around 5 weeks. It was a big deal to me because previously it had taken my quite a lot longer to achieve the same gains.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ono View Post
    Yes

    I started my sports nutrition diploma and following the advice contained in the course, i reduced my protein intake from 250g per day to 140. I also (and this is what i feel is the important bit) i made sure muscle glycogen levels were as full as possible before training and i made sure i sufficiently re-fulled afterwards. Anyway without going into too much detail i added 3/4 inch onto my arms in around 5 weeks. It was a big deal to me because previously it had taken my quite a lot longer to achieve the same gains.

    sports nutrition? ISSA or through a school, im taking one through ISSA but i want a degree in it im currently in school to get an RD, but not really what i like, clinical is not my thingi

    if you dont mind me asking where u taking this course?
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazyfool405 View Post
    sports nutrition? ISSA or through a school, im taking one through ISSA but i want a degree in it im currently in school to get an RD, but not really what i like, clinical is not my thingi

    if you dont mind me asking where u taking this course?
    It's home study with exams at the end of it.

    It's through premier global training. It's REPS accredited so thats a good thing. How are you finding it?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ono View Post
    It's home study with exams at the end of it.

    It's through premier global training. It's REPS accredited so thats a good thing. How are you finding it?
    i like the ISSA one, its a little repetitive, but its good, the hardest thing is remembering the sports values for all the vitamins which are much higher then the RDAs

    its conflicts with what i learned in school , which isnt really anything i didnt know .
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    Quote Originally Posted by ono View Post
    Yes

    I started my sports nutrition diploma and following the advice contained in the course, i reduced my protein intake from 250g per day to 140. I also (and this is what i feel is the important bit) i made sure muscle glycogen levels were as full as possible before training and i made sure i sufficiently re-fulled afterwards. Anyway without going into too much detail i added 3/4 inch onto my arms in around 5 weeks. It was a big deal to me because previously it had taken my quite a lot longer to achieve the same gains.
    So, you basically replaced protein calories with carb calories and scheduled them around your workout. Interesting. How many times/day did you eat? How many cals/day. How much fat were you eating?
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazyfool405 View Post
    i like the ISSA one, its a little repetitive, but its good, the hardest thing is remembering the sports values for all the vitamins which are much higher then the RDAs

    its conflicts with what i learned in school , which isnt really anything i didnt know .
    yeah there's a lot to take in regarding vitamins and minerals in my course. There's also a big section on food contamination aswell which i could have done without. All in all it's ok tho
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    Quote Originally Posted by ono View Post
    yeah there's a lot to take in regarding vitamins and minerals in my course. There's also a big section on food contamination aswell which i could have done without. All in all it's ok tho

    yea, the dieting stuff i dont agree with, i think if you diet, ketosis is key with a moderate fat (healthy) and high protein, and low low carbs,


    they do the whole calorie counting, i dont count calories, i count macros. all calories are not created equal
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    If protein is too high you risk gluconeogenesis.


    The question is, when taking AAS into account, how much more protein could you use or synthesize without reaching gluconeogenesis?

    If you can sythesize 50x more...
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazyfool405 View Post
    yea, the dieting stuff i dont agree with, i think if you diet, ketosis is key with a moderate fat (healthy) and high protein, and low low carbs,


    they do the whole calorie counting, i dont count calories, i count macros. all calories are not created equal
    Hmm suppose they have to go safety first tho don't they.

    I can't really argue anyway, since i've followed the advice in there, results have been brilliant. Much better than the progress i was making from moderate carbs - 300g of protein per day anyway
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    Quote Originally Posted by mapshooter View Post
    So, you basically replaced protein calories with carb calories and scheduled them around your workout. Interesting. How many times/day did you eat? How many cals/day. How much fat were you eating?
    I was eating every 3 hours.

    High carb breakfast (low gi)

    moderate -low throughout the day (low gi)

    150g 3 hours before workout (low gi)

    70 immediately after (high gi)

    50 one hour later (high gi)

    50 one hour later (moderate gi)

    50 one hour later (low gi)

    Fat intake was around 45g

    Oh and apparently you only need an extra 1.5g protein and 30g of carbs to support 1lb muscle increase.

    Again it worked for me. Sure people will disagree with it, but all i can say i've honestly made more progress in these last 2 months then i had previously made in about 8.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CryingEmo View Post
    If protein is too high you risk gluconeogenesis.


    The question is, when taking AAS into account, how much more protein could you use or synthesize without reaching gluconeogenesis?

    If you can sythesize 50x more...
    It doesn't say in my course
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    According to Fitday, I take in 540g of protein on workout days, about 70-100g/meal.

    *shrugs*

    Works for me.

    I also drink 2-3+ gallons of water a day.
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    Quote Originally Posted by shaddow View Post
    According to Fitday, I take in 540g of protein on workout days, about 70-100g/meal.

    *shrugs*

    Works for me.

    I also drink 2-3+ gallons of water a day.
    That's a lot.
  

  
 

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