help with ketogenic and anabolic diet please

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    Smile help with ketogenic and anabolic diet please


    hello everyone....

    i've been training for about 5 years and recently i took a break of about 2 months to rest my body....i just started again i did loose a bit o definition and muscle and strenght.. well i just started the anabolic diet but i dont understant how the carb load should be......i reed that should be saturday and sunday but i not sure ho much carb and what kind of carb should i take without compromising ketosis state im extremely insensitive to carbs i gain fat easily when i follow i diet rich in carbs even in small amounts so thats why im trying this diet....also are you allow to cheat on the carb load days? i appreciate if anyone could give an andvice on this....
    thanks in advance (sorry for my english)

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    this is mi diet

    before AM cardio : 1 scoops whey protein 1 cup coffee

    meal 1 : 3 whole eggs, 4 egg whites 1 tbsp natural peanut butter


    meal 2: 1/2 cup low fat cottage cheese(no salt added) 1 tbsp olive oil


    meal 3: 1 can tuna 1 tbsp olive oil 1 cup green beens or broccoli


    meal 4 : 1 onz peanuts (unsalted) 1/2 cup cottage cheese low fat or half can of tuna


    meal 5: before workout 1 scoop whey protein 1 tbsp
    natural peanut butter

    postworkout meal: 2 scoop whey protein



    dinner: two turkey burguers (no bread) 1 cup green beans 1 tbsp olive oil or 2 tilapia pieces


    before bed : 1/2 cup cotagge cheese 1tbsp peanut butter


    my weight is 140 lbs and about 11 to 13 % bf
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    I'm not 100% certain on the anabolic diet (I know more about the CKD's, etc), but I think your shooting for 2x's your caloric needs as a regualar day from the week. So if you consume 3k cals on Mon-Fri then saturday you would put down 6k, then Sunday you would lower it to something like 5k or 4k.

    Your goal is supersaturation (glycogen) so the carb source really isnt an issue (you can use anything). However if you able to each complex carbs and meet your caloric goal then go for it (its very unlikely though). So simple carbs are very much needed.

    ^^^Caution, I think I'm spewing bodyopus info above not Anabolic diet. So lets wait a lil bit for those more in the know.
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    I was on a ketogenic diet for the past two something months and I'm just now starting to make the transition slowly back to carbs. To avoid gaining weight have your "cheat meal refeed" once a week. Pick a meal on the weekend to cheat, preferably your last meal of the day so that you don't have to eat again, and just eat whatever foods and carbs you want. I'd usually go all out and eat lots of bread and then finish off a tub of ben and jerries ice cream w some cookie dough.

    Invest in a supplement called Vanadyl Sulfate. It's a good mineral supplement that will help your body with glucose metabolism. Taking two before your cheat meal and two after will possibly lessen any bloat and help shuttle glucose out of your blood faster. But as per your original question, carb load doesn't quite matter. As a good rule of thumb, make it once a week that you refeed and eat whatever you want.
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    thanks for the replies....yes i heard about vanadyl ill try it....
    but the carb up day should last all day long breakfats to dinner? or just one meal? so its not neccesary to have 2 carb load days?
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    Quote Originally Posted by cessna View Post
    thanks for the replies....yes i heard about vanadyl ill try it....
    but the carb up day should last all day long breakfats to dinner? or just one meal? so its not neccesary to have 2 carb load days?
    No, one meal. If you do a two-day carb load you'll likely put on water weight and fat. Doing a one meal carb refeed still allows you to indulge and eat what you want without the risk of putting on extra weight. It will serve its purpose --- the carbs from that meal will be stored as glycogen and anything else will be shat out.

    If you want, you can also do a smaller carb refeed (again, just one meal) every four days. This is less ideal for cutting purposes, but in place of doing a 2 day carb up something like that may better suit your needs.
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    ok thanks i appreciate it.....i just started with the diet like 2 days ago i think my body has to adapt as i read usually takes like 4 weeks should i do the carb up meal 4 weeks from now? or this coming weekend assuming carb stores are fully depleted
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    I'm not so sure about using the vanadyl on the carb meal? I believe it reduces the release of insulin in some way, correct? I'm not sure this is ideal when trying to shuttle nutrients into muscles. Unless that isnt the goal of the carb up?
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    Vanadyl Sulfate Insulin Mimicking Mineral


    Vanadyl sulfate, one of the most popular bodybuilding supplements, is derived from trace mineral vanadium. carries the highest quality vanadyl sulfate available!


    2. What does it do and what scientific studies give evidence to support this?

    Athletes have long used vanadyl sulfate to increase their performance. It is believed to play a role in helping to regulate the body's healthy blood sugar levels, similar to insulin. Studies show that vanadyl sulfate mainly helps the muscle cells uptake glucose (instead of fat cells (adipocytes) uptaking glucose). Basically, by mimicking the actions of insulin, vanadyl sulfate forces more proteins, amino acids, and carbohydrates directly into muscles. Vanadyl sulfate is an awesome, popular supplement that seems to work for building better muscles; nevertheless, the scientific jury is still deliberating.


    3. Who needs it and what are some symptoms of deficiency?

    Bodybuilders find vanadyl sulfate especially effective because of the fullness it gives their muscles. Weight lifters and bodybuilders take vanadyl to increase their results while working out and because they experience greater pumps and vascularity. Symptoms of deficiency are not associated with vanadyl sulfate.


    4. How much should be taken? Are there any side effects?

    The recommended dosage is between 30 and 50 mg per day with meals in divided doses. Supplementing with vanadyl sulfate is safe and effective when taken in the recommended amounts. As with most trace minerals, over supplementing may be toxic, so don't take too much!

    hope this help
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    Quote Originally Posted by cessna View Post
    ok thanks i appreciate it.....i just started with the diet like 2 days ago i think my body has to adapt as i read usually takes like 4 weeks should i do the carb up meal 4 weeks from now? or this coming weekend assuming carb stores are fully depleted

    Nah, you'll transition into ketosis in a matter of days. It usually takes the body about 3-4 days to burn up all stored glycogen and then you start burning fats. Go the first two weeks without doing a refeed. Stay strictly ketogenic, consume under 20 grams carbs a day and let your body adapt to burning muscle triglycerides for energy. After about 2 weeks do a refeed when your body could most benefit from glycogen loading.
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    Someone gave you bad gouge. You are to do 2 FULL DAYS of carb ups, not 1 meal. Personally I go from friday night until sunday night.
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    1 meal is the Palumbo diet.
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    but theres something i dont understand and i been researching.....ok lets say after two weeks in this diet no carbs at all....then comes saturday morning should my carbs sources come from high glycemic or low glycemic the 2 days of loading? also i reed you can do just 24 hours of carb load....im respond very bad to carbs so i think 48 hours carbing up its too much.....thank for responses....

    also what about the piece of fruit they tell you to eat before your deplenish workout on friday?
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    The fruit is to "wake" up your liver to start doing work with insulin. Use high GI carbs for the first 12-24 hours. It will be easier and work better. The 2nd 24 hours use all lower GI carbs. Keep fat low I'd say under 75gr/day and protein about the same.
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    its ok if i do only one 24 hours carb up period? because i know my body i dont think it will react in a good way with a 48hours period.........also can i sheat that day or its better to keep it healthy?

    also i saw the list of foods that you are allow to eat on this diet but i didnt see peanut butter and cottage cheese and i really like it can PB and CC be incorporate on this diet?

    THANKS
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    Yea if you want to do 24 thats fine. Just keep the first 12 High GI and the last low GI and yea a cheat meal in there is fine IMO.

    Cottage Cheese and PB are fine as long as you stay within your carb range for the day.
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    Definitely keep fat as low as possible.. I sort of "cheat" on my entire re-feeds, but use Low fat versions, etc. Like ill make a pizza with 2% cheese/turkey peperoni, mike and ikes, fruity pebbles with 2% milk, really whatever i feel like, and am craving.
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    ok thanks for the advices......but i have a questions about the fat intake i reed about you should take a specific amount of fat depending your weight but this specific numbers of grams of fat should i count the saturated fat or just the total amount of fat on a specific serving for given meal? for example my numbers says that on each meal i have to take a minimun of 28 grams of fat plus 50 grams of protein... lets say i eat 6 whole eggs there is 27 grams of fat its that the way i count the fat grams or do i have to count the saturated fat? thanks

    also i saw the list of drinks you can have and i didnt see coffee its there any problem with drinking coffee?
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    On a Keto diet you count all fats, sat, poly mono all of them. They all contibute to the total calorie intake. As for the coffee, that sounds like the palumbo diet. He's not a fan of stimulants.....
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    Quote Originally Posted by cessna View Post
    hello everyone....

    i've been training for about 5 years and recently i took a break of about 2 months to rest my body....i just started again i did loose a bit o definition and muscle and strenght.. well i just started the anabolic diet but i dont understant how the carb load should be......i reed that should be saturday and sunday but i not sure ho much carb and what kind of carb should i take without compromising ketosis state im extremely insensitive to carbs i gain fat easily when i follow i diet rich in carbs even in small amounts so thats why im trying this diet....also are you allow to cheat on the carb load days? i appreciate if anyone could give an andvice on this....
    thanks in advance (sorry for my english)
    Start with sugary carbs and work your way into low GI carbs. When I carb up, first I eat a box of special k bars, or waffles with syrup, then a few cups of oats, then fruit and brown rice/pasta. Start it immediately after a whole body workout, to ensure that each muscle group is carb depleted. I usually cheat on carb up days, but I am an ecto and can get away with that. In fact, I only do 3 low carb days, and keep monday and tuesday moderate carb, to ensure that I do not lose any mass. I don't follow the AD, I do more of a carb cycle. In terms of quantity, I listen to my body. I guess roughly 3.5 gm/lb body weight. If I start getting soft, I back off a bit. On high carb days, most of your calories should come from carbs, maybe 30% fat and protein.
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    thanks to everybody for the replies and advices......im trying to stay within my required grams of fat according with my weight eating EFA's should i worry about the saturated fat or its fine on this type of diet to eat a bit more than i usually do ? right now the diet has been good in not hungry like on a tipical low carb high protein diet.........also how should be the training on this diet i know that cardio its better to do it on slow mode but im not sure about reps and intensity on weight training if anybody can give an advice on this ill appreciate it thanks....
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    Quote Originally Posted by Distilled Water View Post


    Great information Distilled! Reps to you...

    Lyle McDonald is king of ketogenic diets (cyclical or targeted). Here is a link to his website (books are also listed).
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    thanks for that info destilled water......but it dosent said anything about saturated fat should im worry about those during the induction phase? i ask this because this is my second day on the diet i started on monday i dont know my LBM but im using this formula Your bodyweight in lbs x 18 (body weight 140 lbs) so that gives 2520 calories a day (1008 CALORIES FORM PROTEIN) ( 1512 CALORIES FROM FAT) so i did the math and it gives me:

    252 grams of protein
    167 grams of fat

    but i start to se that i start to lose a bit of cut even thought im doing cardio firts time in the morning and after training what could be the reason?


    thanks
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    no, I'd just worry about trans fat. Sat fat from eggs and meat are good for you from a natty stand point.
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    ok thanks....... but why would be that im losing a bit of cut? should i increase my training intensity ?
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    Quote Originally Posted by cessna View Post
    thanks for that info destilled water......but it dosent said anything about saturated fat should im worry about those during the induction phase? i ask this because this is my second day on the diet i started on monday i dont know my LBM but im using this formula Your bodyweight in lbs x 18 (body weight 140 lbs) so that gives 2520 calories a day (1008 CALORIES FORM PROTEIN) ( 1512 CALORIES FROM FAT) so i did the math and it gives me:

    252 grams of protein
    167 grams of fat

    but i start to se that i start to lose a bit of cut even thought im doing cardio firts time in the morning and after training what could be the reason?


    thanks
    Try keeping your sat. fat in the ballpark of 33% of your total fat intake.

    You will seem to lose cut on this diet during the low carb portion in the latter part of the week as your glycogen stores become depleted. This is normal. Each carb up should be thought of as a "recomposition" phase. During this time if you're consuming a proper amount of glycogen your defenition will return.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cessna View Post
    ok thanks....... but why would be that im losing a bit of cut? should i increase my training intensity ?
    What does your training look like on this diet?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Royd The Noyd View Post
    I'm not so sure about using the vanadyl on the carb meal? I believe it reduces the release of insulin in some way, correct? I'm not sure this is ideal when trying to shuttle nutrients into muscles. Unless that isnt the goal of the carb up?
    Exactly. This, and other insulin mimitecs (variations of ALA, anabolic pump, etc.) can further induce ketosis and will lower the insulin response that we try so hard to set up during the high carb weekend. These are better used during the first two low carb days of the week to get you into ketosis faster.
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    my saturated fat intake is around 55g.daily and yes im taking ALA and magnesium and i will buy vanady sulfate for the carbu up days . and my training is split is:

    monday: legs generally 4 exercises ( sets: 4)
    reps: 12, 12 , 10, 10 ,8)

    tuesday: chest 4 exercises ( sets: 4)
    ( reps: 15, 12 , 10 , 8)


    shoulders: (sets: 3)
    (reps: 15 , 15 , 15 , 12 ) light weight


    wednesday: back (sets:4) sometimes 5 depens on energy level
    (resp: range between 12 and 10 )


    thursday : biceps (sets: 4)
    (reps: range between 15 and 12 thats the only way i can get good pumps)


    triceps (sets:4)

    (reps: range between 12 and 10)


    friday hamstrings (sets: 4)
    (reps: between 15 and 12)

    i do 30 minutes of cardio after weight and sometimes firts thing in the morning


    i bought the ketostix's but i didnt show any dark color
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    You're going to use the Vanadyl during carb up days? If you read my last post you would see why that isn't ideal.

    Your training routine needs to go hand in hand with your glycogen stores if you want to get the most out of this diet.

    I would suggest that you keep your training to 3-4 days per week with the first 2-3 w/o days being tension workouts at around 80% of your 1RM. This early in the week your glycogen stores will be full enough to support heavier weight. The final workout day for the week should be a 2 hour full body depletion workout at about 50% of your 1RM. This can include supersets, strip sets, etc. Immediately following your depletion workout you should start your carb up. This type of routine while on a CKD has shown to very effectively replenish glycogen stores. Think of yourself on Friday as a dry sponge (glycogen depleted) ready to soak up water (or in this case, glycogen). Doing the high rep depletion workout will help you to soak up the most glycogen to prepare you for the next week.
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    I started a thread in here a while back on the anabolic diet. Still on it and Ill tell you brother, its all trial and error. There is no set amount of time for your carb ups, only a rough limit of two days. Ive found I can't take a long carb up, so I go 12hrs to 24 hrs max and I also avoid the high gi carbs because I end up feeling like sh*t. I stick with the 60/30/10 template for as long as the carb up goes.

    BTW You do not need fad supplements on this diet! Save your money for food (or maybe roids.)
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    Quote Originally Posted by IroNwIlL2006 View Post
    I started a thread in here a while back on the anabolic diet. Still on it and Ill tell you brother, its all trial and error. There is no set amount of time for your carb ups, only a rough limit of two days. Ive found I can't take a long carb up, so I go 12hrs to 24 hrs max and I also avoid the high gi carbs because I end up feeling like sh*t. I stick with the 60/30/10 template for as long as the carb up goes.

    BTW You do not need fad supplements on this diet! Save your money for food (or maybe roids.)
    I agree here. Consensus by vets of the diet seems to be that no matter how long the carb up lasts you'll find that while you cut keeping your fat macros at 10% will yeild the best results. 60/30/10 is also what I use.
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    thats the part i dont understand (tension workouts) what exactly its that? what i understand with that its better to do around two sets per bodypart and reps range between 8-10?
    except for the depletion workout.....and about the vanadyl sulfate your're right its not a good idea for carb up days
    but its ok to do cardio (slow mode for 30 minutes?)
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    I would personally do more than 2 sets per body part during the tension workout for major muscle groups. Just keep your rep range between 6-8 during these workouts.
    If you want to do cardio on this diet then the decision is up to you.
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    okay im on my day 5 of the AD im trying to keep the fat intake high or at least within my weight.....mostly my fat intake comes from (EVOO, cheeses, eggs , ground meats) im not comsuming to much red meat because of the time it takes to cook the meat and im out of my house almost the all day so i take a few tuna cans for lunch but my dinner i try to eat more fat like eggs with cheese and EVOO....til now my energy levels have been up and down good days bad days but i hope the next week will be better...... i been having a little headache.

    well but i have a problem before i started this diet my diet was high in protein and low in fat and carbs because im an endo and carbs dont go with me....well the thing is that before this diet i had my six pack and after 5 days on the AD i started to see that they begin to disappear but its not terrible i know they can come again easy and i started to see less cuts on my body should i worry? or its to much fat what im taking? i reed that this diet it supposed to be high in fat and thats what im doing.... i just dont wanna quit from this diet because it seems to work so if anyone could help me on this one ill appreciate it thanks
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    The AD is all about trial and error. I had a nice set of abs going into the diet as well but I gained an initial 5 lbs of fat when i first started, lol. I almost lost my patience and quit as well once my abs were no longer visible. All I can tell you is that it may take a little bit of time and patience for your body to adjust and to get your calories/macros tuned in. I would give it 1-2 months for this to occur and to be running smoothly on the diet. So, if your goal is to keep your abs for the rest of the summer then it may not be the best idea to start a new diet right now. Just my 2 cents.
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    no i really dont mind right now if i lose a bit my abs since i dont have time to go to the beach because of my studies but i was wondering if this is normal on some persons.....plus if i were eating carbs as im eating fat i can assure i were a skinny fat person lol..... so this diet it dosent seen to be too bad for me maybe its just matter of time like you said....ill try for for a month or two months to see what happens......
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