NooTropics under attack - FDA

[WesleyInman]

We know that the FDA was going after nootropics previously, but now it's full scale..with retailers products being seized..merchant accounts to process credit card payments being shut down and ebay and amazon taking them off the marketplace

But what pharmaceutical company is behind all of this?

Was BSL raid and seizure of Dust Extreme actually regarding the fact the product has Noopept in it? Not DMAA?

Spidey Senses and recent experiences suggest that the FDA/Gov't is now full scale against Nootropics
(Noopept, Adrafinil, PhenylPricetam, Phenibut top off the list)



"After reviewing your account, we've had to take the following action:
- Some or all of your listings may have been removed. A list of any removed items will be listed further down in this email.
- We have credited all associated fees except for the final value fee for your listing(s).
You listed a nootropic drug which is not permissible for sale on eBay as it is identified as a prescription drug in some countries. Due to this restriction in availability, we do not allow this product for sale on our site, regardless of whether or not it is being shipped internationally. While we appreciate that you chose to utilize our site, we must ask that you please not relist in this case."

 

[GQdaLEGEND]

wtf nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

 

[brundel]

My guess is if your a company selling a product that has a synthetic drug in it your at risk.
Most if not all of these things are either strictly synthetic, unapproved drugs, and or do not qualify as a dietary supplement by any standard.
They are going after them but its not a huge surprise. Any company with Noopept, or a racetam or a synthetic stim in them are willingly taking a risk.

Seeing companies getting raided should be a wake up call.
This is why our new Noot only has natural ingredients. And why all of our new products have only natural ingredients.
Seems like a bad idea to me to spend all this time and money on a product only to have it bring the cops to your place to take it and whatever else they like followed by law suits and potential prison time.

Im a in full support of any human having the right to do whatever the f they want. But this just isnt reality.

 

[BlackTiger22]

sucks

 

[kisaj]

Is there a link to this because I cannot find any information on a crack down coming on noots.

 

[FireRescue]

Resurgence used to have Noopept in it as well. I would imagine BSL sill had some of the product with Noopept still sitting around?

I haven't looked at one of the labels in a while so I do not know when it was reformulated but REL's Onward used to have Noopept in it as well and it seems it has been reformulated.

It looks as if the MFG's may have seen this coming.

 

[kisaj]

The ban on Amazon and ebay is old. They pulled noots years ago, so unless this is actually relevant now and someone can post links to the pending bans or crack down, what does it matter?

 

[justhere4comm]

Someone point me to current information of the FDA sending letters, or anything related to Noopept and Huperzine A.

 

[kisaj]

I asked first. Lol

 

[JohnP.]

The ban on Amazon and ebay is old.

Exactly

Someone point me to current information of the FDA sending letters, or anything related to Noopept and Huperzine A.

I would like to see it to but IMO it dont exist.

 

[hsk]

I posted this in another Noot thread, but i thought I would add it to this thread as well.

FYI, just found out PC and affiliated sister sites are going out of business. Most likely it was due to this: http://setexasrecord.com/stories/511...to-son-s-death

This might be one of the reasons for the increasing scrutiny of Noots. It's a shame this had to happen cause PC had a very transparent QC process. I will miss them.

 

[WesleyInman]

Powder City is closing down this week.

They are also being sued over Tianeptine that was purchased from them, a kid died and they are attempting to find fault.

This one can be googled guys.

Talk to TGB, So Cal or myself..we are retailers. Ask around and you will see that what I am saying is true.

Not everything can be found online, communication is key.

 

[kisaj]

Yes, we are aware of PC. Still doesn't answer the original post and where the info is coming from.

 

[WesleyInman]

Yes, we are aware of PC. Still doesn't answer the original post and where the info is coming from.

That suspension that I noted, came directly from me, my Ebay store.

I also have had my Paypal Merchant account suspended last year for carrying Nootropics.
I have plenty of documentation over the last year to show you what I am saying is true.

Like I said, ask some of the other retailers. They will tell you the same thing. TGB, SoCal, SDFT..

It is very common info to retailers that I wanted to share.

 

[justhere4comm]

That's not the FDA it's specific company policies. Help me out here. You can't sell them on your own site?

 

[Aleksandar37]

That's not the FDA it's specific company policies. Help me out here. You can't sell them on your own site?

This is what I was wondering. There's a difference between the FDA cracking down and companies like ebay and paypal not wanting to deal with headaches that can come from grey areas.

 

[WesleyInman]

This is what I was wondering. There's a difference between the FDA cracking down and companies like ebay and paypal not wanting to deal with headaches that can come from grey areas.

Well what I was told by Ebay, Paypal, and Amazon was that they were being directed by Gov't Policy in regards to their "policies"

The issue being that when all of these companies go by Policy, they basically get to make it up as they go. For example, no where listed is Nootropics, caffeine, higenamine, glutamine, etc, etc

I am simply naming off compounds. Their policies don't specifically name ingredients, products, or brands. It is simply a broad policy, "You violated our Policy"...but they dont' have to name anything..so if they want..shampoo is banned...Qtips..you name it..and you only find out after they suspend you and in some cases try to seize your money.

This allows them to do everything and anything they want. For example I was selling a product called MORMON TEA (aka ephedra nevandensis). This is an herb that grows in Nevada, Utah, etc..

They shut me down, saying I was selling "EPHEDRA/EPHEDRINE"

This is very clearly not anything remotely close to ephedrine..there are no alkaloids in it. So long story short, after a long ridiculous amount of communications I was able to show the AUP dept, evidence that they were wrong and that one time they overturned this decision.

They are absolutely influenced by the FDA.

Does anyone here doubt this is possible?

 

[justhere4comm]

I'm no attorney, but this smacks of nonsensical tattle tale tactics by competing companies or the following to be considered.

It shows me those companies have no backbone, and are giving in to some kind of unofficial influence. If they have proof of some kind of correspondence with the FDA, let them show it, or show up in court. Why doesn't anyone sue EBAY, PayPal, or Amazon?

If they cannot specifically site the legality being infringed upon, they have no rights to your accounts and actions taken.
You can actually buy SARMS in capped form on Amazon. I've seen them as recently as a few weeks ago. Old stock from various sellers. Have a look, yet they are virtually kicking in doors of those selling Nootropics...

 

[WesleyInman]

Have a look, yet they are virtually kicking in doors of those selling Nootropics...

Not just virtually guys. Physically. This is really happening. Hard to fathom, right?

And the attack on Nootropics continues...

Now it is on to raiding homes...

Federal Agents at the home address of awakebrain.com

THOUGHTS?

HERMITAGE, Pa. -
Neighbors of a usually quiet Mercer County neighborhood woke up to the presence of federal agents on their street early Tuesday.
21 News spoke with residents on the 4900 block of Lakeview Drive, who say agents and Hermitage police arrived around 5:00 a.m. at the home owned by Emil and Maria Koledin.
According to county election records, Maria Koledin sits on the Hermitage Board of Commissioners.
Hermitage Police Chief Eric Jewell said he did not know what agents were looking for, but says investigators from the Food and Drug Administration were involved in the search.
State records list the home as the address of the internet company known as awakebrain.com, operated by Koledin Enterprises.
According to the website, “At AwakeBrain.com we search the world to find the very best safe, legal Nootropics and performance enhancement products.”
The company's website also says that nootropics are also referred to as smart drugs, memory enhancers, neuro enhancers, cognitive enhancers, and intelligence enhancers, are drugs, supplements, nutraceuticals, and functional foods.
The company claims that nootropics improve aspects of mental function, such as working memory, motivation, and attention.
According to the Food and Drug Administration's website, the agency says it is responsible for protecting the public health by ensuring the safety, effectiveness, and security of human and veterinary drugs, biological products, and medical devices, as well as ensures the safety of the nation's food supply, cosmetics, and products that emit radiation.
21 News has contacted the FDA and the U.S. Attorney to inquire about the nature of Tuesday's search. Representatives from both offices say they have a policy not to discuss possible or ongoing investigations.

http://www.wfmj.com//story/34687774/...yz4kic.twitter

 

[Aleksandar37]

Not just virtually guys. Physically. This is really happening. Hard to fathom, right?

And the attack on Nootropics continues...

Now it is on to raiding homes...

Federal Agents at the home address of awakebrain.com

THOUGHTS?

HERMITAGE, Pa. -
Neighbors of a usually quiet Mercer County neighborhood woke up to the presence of federal agents on their street early Tuesday.
21 News spoke with residents on the 4900 block of Lakeview Drive, who say agents and Hermitage police arrived around 5:00 a.m. at the home owned by Emil and Maria Koledin.
According to county election records, Maria Koledin sits on the Hermitage Board of Commissioners.
Hermitage Police Chief Eric Jewell said he did not know what agents were looking for, but says investigators from the Food and Drug Administration were involved in the search.
State records list the home as the address of the internet company known as awakebrain.com, operated by Koledin Enterprises.
According to the website, “At AwakeBrain.com we search the world to find the very best safe, legal Nootropics and performance enhancement products.”
The company's website also says that nootropics are also referred to as smart drugs, memory enhancers, neuro enhancers, cognitive enhancers, and intelligence enhancers, are drugs, supplements, nutraceuticals, and functional foods.
The company claims that nootropics improve aspects of mental function, such as working memory, motivation, and attention.
According to the Food and Drug Administration's website, the agency says it is responsible for protecting the public health by ensuring the safety, effectiveness, and security of human and veterinary drugs, biological products, and medical devices, as well as ensures the safety of the nation's food supply, cosmetics, and products that emit radiation.
21 News has contacted the FDA and the U.S. Attorney to inquire about the nature of Tuesday's search. Representatives from both offices say they have a policy not to discuss possible or ongoing investigations.

http://www.wfmj.com//story/34687774/...yz4kic.twitter

How is this an attack on nootropics? If you have more than this article has, please post

 

[Aleksandar37]

Several places online have people saying they bought modafinil from awakebrain, so maybe it has something to do with that.

 

[JohnP.]

They were selling actual Russian pharmaceuticals. For human consumption.

 

[carguy123]

They were selling actual Russian pharmaceuticals. For human consumption.

Well fukk that will do it lol. These noot sites keep selling this type of stuff and it draws bad press to all of them. If Powder City did not sell tianeptine they would most likely still be open today

 

[JohnP.]

Well fukk that will do it lol. These noot sites keep selling this type of stuff and it draws bad press to all of them. If Powder City did not sell tianeptine they would most likely still be open today

I spoke to my friend on FB. Credit card processors are coming down hard because of sites mixing peptides with other noots.

 

[carguy123]

I spoke to my friend on FB. Credit card processors are coming down hard because of sites mixing peptides with other noots.

Yeah that seems to be another big issue and I know PC had similar struggles last year I believe. But there are ways around that too

 

[JohnP.]

Yeah that seems to be another big issue and I know PC had similar struggles last year I believe. But there are ways around that too

Exactly just like SARMS/SERMS you can't sell for human consumption.You can't make health claims about the product. No dosing instructions on the website. No testimonials from customers saying they tried it etc.

 

[WesleyInman]

They were selling actual Russian pharmaceuticals. For human consumption.

Well Noopept is a prescription med in Russia

Is that what you are referring to?

 

[Aleksandar37]

Well Noopept is a prescription med in Russia

Is that what you are referring to?

If so, do you believe that justifies a raid?

If people are going to openly sell something illegal, then yes, it justifies a raid. You're playing them off as the victim, yet these kinds of sellers are exactly why the FDA is getting more involved and they give honest sellers and manufacturers a bad name. The FDA didn't create this situation; the people in that house did.

 

[brundel]

Im a fan of people being able to do whatever they want but the reality is selling drugs and research chemicals is always a risky business.
lots of people do it but I dont understand why people are surprised when these guys get raided.

Noopept isnt a supplement.
Neither is modanifil or a long list of the stuff these guys sell. Might make a killing selling this stuff. Might go to prison, lose all your money, credibility etc.
Is it worth it? Seems like ALOT of people think so.
I think personally speaking life is much too short to spend any of it in a 6x10 box.

 

[JohnP.]

Well Noopept is a prescription med in Russia Is that what you are referring to?

If people are going to openly sell something illegal, then yes, it justifies a raid. You're playing them off as the victim, yet these kinds of sellers are exactly why the FDA is getting more involved and they give honest sellers and manufacturers a bad name. The FDA didn't create this situation; the people in that house did.

Im a fan of people being able to do whatever they want but the reality is selling drugs and research chemicals is always a risky business.
lots of people do it but I dont understand why people are surprised when these guys get raided.

Noopept isnt a supplement.
Neither is modanifil or a long list of the stuff these guys sell. Might make a killing selling this stuff. Might go to prison, lose all your money, credibility etc.
Is it worth it? Seems like ALOT of people think so.
I think personally speaking life is much too short to spend any of it in a 6x10 box.

Not just Noopept but alot of their stuff are actual prescription meds in Russia. There is a thread up at Reddit and this a list I pasted from it. It a list of what they sell:

DAPTOL (Mebicar)

ADRAFINIL (Noofon)

AFOBAZOL (aka Afobazole)

BIOTREDIN

BlissfulMind-T (Tianeptine)

Bromantane (Generic)

COLURACETAM (CARTAM)

Cortagen Powder

Dropper Bottles

Epithalon

LADASTEN (aka Bromantan / Bromantane)

Liquid Measuring

MEXIDOL (Emoxypine)

MILDRONATE (Mildonium)

N-Acetyl-Selank

N-Acetyl-Semax

Nasal Spray Bottles

NOOPEPT (Brand Name)

NOOPEPT (Generic)

NOOTROPIL (aka Noostan, Nootrop, Nootropyl)

PANTOGAM (Homopantothenic Acid)

PANTOGAM ACTIVE (D, L Hopantenic Acid)

PHENIBUT

PHENOTROPIL (aka Fenotropil Carphedon Phenylpiracetam)

Phenylpiracetam Hydrazide

PICAMILON (aka Nicotinoyl-GABA, Pycamilon, Pikamilon)

Pinealon Capsules

Pinealon Powder

Sample Pack: ADRAFINIL + LADASTEN + PHENOTROPIL

SELANK

SEMAX

STRESAM (Etifoxine)

Sunifiram

TENOTEN

VALIDOL (Validolum)

 

[brundel]

Not just Noopept but alot of their stuff are actual prescription meds in Russia. There is a thread up at Reddit and this a list I pasted from it. It a list of what they sell:

DAPTOL (Mebicar)

ADRAFINIL (Noofon)

AFOBAZOL (aka Afobazole)

BIOTREDIN

BlissfulMind-T (Tianeptine)

Bromantane (Generic)

COLURACETAM (CARTAM)

Cortagen Powder

Dropper Bottles

Epithalon

LADASTEN (aka Bromantan / Bromantane)

Liquid Measuring

MEXIDOL (Emoxypine)

MILDRONATE (Mildonium)

N-Acetyl-Selank

N-Acetyl-Semax

Nasal Spray Bottles

NOOPEPT (Brand Name)

NOOPEPT (Generic)

NOOTROPIL (aka Noostan, Nootrop, Nootropyl)

PANTOGAM (Homopantothenic Acid)

PANTOGAM ACTIVE (D, L Hopantenic Acid)

PHENIBUT

PHENOTROPIL (aka Fenotropil Carphedon Phenylpiracetam)

Phenylpiracetam Hydrazide

PICAMILON (aka Nicotinoyl-GABA, Pycamilon, Pikamilon)

Pinealon Capsules

Pinealon Powder

Sample Pack: ADRAFINIL + LADASTEN + PHENOTROPIL

SELANK

SEMAX

STRESAM (Etifoxine)

Sunifiram

TENOTEN

VALIDOL (Validolum)

Right. Exactly my point. I cant imagine it being a surprise when the FDA or DEA come knocking when your selling drugs online.
Same with the guys who sell steroids and meth analogues as supplements and then everyone is surprised when the DEA comes knocking.
If you want to be a drug dealer....go for it but dont be so stupid as to do it on the internet.

 

[WesleyInman]

If people are going to openly sell something illegal, then yes, it justifies a raid. You're playing them off as the victim, yet these kinds of sellers are exactly why the FDA is getting more involved and they give honest sellers and manufacturers a bad name. The FDA didn't create this situation; the people in that house did.

So let me ask you this..and respectfully of course, do not think for a mere second I am attacking you. Respectful dialogue

I administered various Psych meds for about a decade as a Behavioral therapist and a Counselor. I found that the prescription meds I was dispensing were some of the most dangerous drugs in the World, with various long term sides, and very clear disturbances to mood, and mental status.

Now doctors prescribed these, with such ease..minus double checking Contraindications..without worrying about long term sides....and some of these medical "professionals" were given vacations and kickcback for prescribing certain meds. Please do not attempt to deny that what I am telling you is accurate.

No one monitors this. The FDA is not up their ***, shutting down their offices, raiding their offices...nothing.

Meanwhile you have companies selling "unscheduled" but "NOT illegal" nootropics. And the FDA is pursuing them to the degree we are seeing a full scale "war" on them..shutting down merchant accounts, seizing funds, seizing shipments, and now raiding homes of those selling a far far safer ingredient. And trust me when I tell you, noopept, adrafinil, phenylpricetam are not 1/10th as dangerous as what is handed out, by simply stating you have "focus" issues.

It is legal drug dealing at best. And the fda is enforcing that and alllowing it.

And you have no problem with that? And you believe the FDA is justified in pursuing a supplement manufacturer who puts 20mgs of noopept per serving into a fat burner/?

 

[brundel]

The difference lies in political ties and benefits.
Big pharma lines the pockets not just of doctors but also the government.
In this way they get away with murder. New drugs re released so often itll make or heads spin. Dsm is altered with new "diseases and disease states"
Just to justify the use of new drugs. Often these synthetic drugs are more harmful than any natural alternative of which there are generally some but there is no money in it. In fact the money for the gov lies in suppressing our ability to produce viable natural alternatives.
Our gov is absolutely corrupt
Freedom is not real

 

[Aleksandar37]

So let me ask you this..and respectfully of course, do not think for a mere second I am attacking you. Respectful dialogue

I administered various Psych meds for about a decade as a Behavioral therapist and a Counselor. I found that the prescription meds I was dispensing were some of the most dangerous drugs in the World, with various long term sides, and very clear disturbances to mood, and mental status.

Now doctors prescribed these, with such ease..minus double checking Contraindications..without worrying about long term sides....and some of these medical "professionals" were given vacations and kickcback for prescribing certain meds. Please do not attempt to deny that what I am telling you is accurate.

No one monitors this. The FDA is not up their ***, shutting down their offices, raiding their offices...nothing.

Meanwhile you have companies selling "unscheduled" but "NOT illegal" nootropics. And the FDA is pursuing them to the degree we are seeing a full scale "war" on them..shutting down merchant accounts, seizing funds, seizing shipments, and now raiding homes of those selling a far far safer ingredient. And trust me when I tell you, noopept, adrafinil, phenylpricetam are not 1/10th as dangerous as what is handed out, by simply stating you have "focus" issues.

It is legal drug dealing at best. And the fda is enforcing that and alllowing it.

And you have no problem with that? And you believe the FDA is justified in pursuing a supplement manufacturer who puts 20mgs of noopept per serving into a fat burner/?

Just so we're both doing full disclosure, I have worked directly in pharma and now do consulting for pharma companies. You are correct that the FDA is not raiding physians' offices for legally prescribing legal pharmaceuticals. However, the pharma/physician kickback thing doesn't work like that anymore thanks to the Sunshine Act. I'm not saying it doesn't still happen, but pharma isn't this wild west show that you're describing. Both pharma companies and physicians have seen fines and jail time. To say that no one monitors this is a straight up lie, but none of that was even my point.

Here is what I am saying in plain English. If people want to sell illegal or grey area items, rock on. However, as someobody else already pointed out, don't be surprised when the FDA comes knocking after you advertised this fact in public on the internet! If you want to debate IF something should be legal or illegal, that is a different conversation and I would probably agree with you, but in this case, they were open about selling something that the government currently says is illegal and got busted. And you are portraying them as the victim as if they were selling protein bars and got their door kicked in. That's not an accurate or honest portrayal of what happened.

If Joe is on the corner selling crack and he gets busted, that one is on Joe. You can debate what should be illegal all you want and bash the cop who busted him, but 100% of the responsibility and blame should be on him.

 

[TyMan14]

As someone who uses nootropics and also has a prescription for adderall, I can totally see both sides in this. As WesleyInman stated, it was almost too easy for me to get my script. Granted, I genuinely do need it, and I knew that going in, but my physician was very quick to prescribe it, and it was actually my first visit with this physician. I'm glad he was because it made my process easy and painless, but still. I know way too many people that go in drug seeking and get handed these things. It seems to be running rampant.

And Aleksandar37 is also right. We need companies that produce the products that are actually legal, and ONLY sell those products. Powder City was my go to company, and I hate realizing that they are gone because they have sold me some excellent quality nootropics before I was able to get my prescription, but selling drugs that are in the grey area is just not a smart thing to do for any company, especially one that can make money on the products that they are selling legally.

Its a shame this is happening because I absolutely love my phenylpiracetam and my noopept, but this is a matter of time before companies put up a sign to the FDA that says "Please ban everything because we can't be trusted!". It is a sad reality. I hope more good companies like Powder City pop up, but do so in a legitimate way.

Mostly replying to sub to the thread for updates, but thought I'd throw in my sort of semi educated opinion. lol

 

[WesleyInman]

Good info Brundel, Aleks and Ty thank you for your views, appreciated

 

[WesleyInman]

And not to argue with anyone, nor you Aleksandar..

but let's look at the FDA "approved" medication stats for the year 2014 (last year I could find complete stats)


FDA approved meds in 2014 -were responsible for:
123,927 DEATHS
807,270 SERIOUS (Serious outcomes include death, hospitalization, life-threatening, disability, congenital anomaly and/or other serious outcome.)

https://www.fda.gov/Drugs/GuidanceComplianceRegulatoryInformation/Surveillance/AdverseDrugEffects/ucm070461.htm

So my argument, is that this "supposed oversight"...."if" it truly is in place, then I suggest these stats show a very different story and it is being run, like the "Wild West" in various ways.

Does anyone here believe for a moment that with these statistics, the FDA is prioritizing this oversight in a remotely productive and proper manner at all? Though some of these certainly were from abuse. Some of these are absolutely due to improper prescribing, and also many of these meds...are simply "not safe" at all.

But lets put $$ into stopping Nootropics. (shaking head)

How many deaths, or serious reports come from Noopept, or Adrafinil. Or phenylpricetam?

 

[Aleksandar37]

And not to argue with anyone, nor you Aleksandar..

but let's look at the FDA "approved" medication stats for the year 2014 (last year I could find complete stats)

It's not arguing and I'm more than happy to have a friendly debate about it. Those stats are always about 3 years behind because it takes them a while to get around to grouping them all together. Let me preface this by saying that the FDA doesn't have a perfect system, in fact, many ways it's a really bad system, so I'm not defending them. However, I'd be very curious to see the list of drugs and the disease states that make up this list of deaths. For instance, the area that I mostly work in is oncology and it tends to be patients who have very hard to treat cancers such as glioblastoma. They're willing to take some extremely harsh drugs to gain a few months or even a few weeks.

So the stats you're showing are all deaths from all drugs which is going to be a huge spectrum. Drugs like opioids are going to have a lot of deaths that probably could have been avoided, but that is lumped together with some patients who are simply very ill. I just don't think using that as an example is enough to say the entire FDA and pharma is corrupt.

 

[Outofbody]

Any updates on this? I wasn't aware of a nootropics ban

 

[NeuroTropic]

Any updates on this? I wasn't aware of a nootropics ban

The banking industry hit nearly every nootropic company with a ban this year.

 

[WesleyInman]

Update is this info was correct.

Not gonna say "I told you so" but in every way shape and form Nootropics have taken a hit.

The only way I am seeing the mainstream versions sold now is either black market, RC sites or some sites with bitcoin...

But those are far and few....

 

[Outofbody]

The banking industry hit nearly every nootropic company with a ban this year.

Interesting. All of the US domestic companies I deal with seem to be running business as usual still. I would never have known.

But not sure what you mean by banking industry. It would be the FDA's call to release a ban.

 

[NeuroTropic]

Interesting. All of the US domestic companies I deal with seem to be running business as usual still. I would never have known.

But not sure what you mean by banking industry. It would be the FDA's call to release a ban.

Some found a way around it but many aren't accepting cc at all. It's common knowledge for anyone in the industry and been discussed in reddit's nootropic sub.

Credit card merchants, banks, bitcoin merchants, etc. The banking industry acts outside of the FDA actions. This is in part why amazon pulled most of it's nootropics years ago.

 

[Outofbody]

Some found a way around it but many aren't accepting cc at all. It's common knowledge for anyone in the industry and been discussed in reddit's nootropic sub.

Credit card merchants, banks, bitcoin merchants, etc. The banking industry acts outside of the FDA actions. This is in part why amazon pulled most of it's nootropics years ago.

Oh I see what you mean. Yeah come to think of it, I haven't used VISA to order in a while, I use eCheck instead.