Azoth

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  1. Azoth


    AZÖTH

    Thoughts?


  2. It's overpriced and quite honestly, and rarely said, but overdosed. 50mg of noopept is high as 30mg spread out is pretty well tolerated as the higher side dosage. 50mg at one time is not what I would consider optimal. 150mg of PP is fine, but again, could be high for people not accustom to it. Plus, tolerance builds quickly, so I never like to see PP in a blend, rather take it on it's own. DMHA seems interesting, but it is inexpensive and I have seen 5 grams being sold for $15 on some sites.
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  3. One thing that you failed to realize however is that Noopept only has a 10% bioavailability when taken orally. That's why most in the nootropics community take it sublingually or intranasally via a spray. So only about 5mg of those 50mg will be effective so I think it's a pretty fair dose. I think the high price is mostly due to the Phenylpiracetam and Ashweganda, which the company has told me is KSM66 extract. Also, DMHA can be expensive depending on the manufacturer, so it is possible that their particular manufacturer overcharged them.

    I also just found out they have a discount code for one of the Facebook nootropics groups. I'm not sure if I can share it here, but I doubt anyone will find out, so I will post it anyway. It's NIKO45 and it gives you 45% off at checkout. That's one of the group admin's codes. They also announced today that they are giving a 14 day money back guarentee for the first 100 orders.
    No citizen has a right to be an amateur in the matter of physical training...what a disgrace it is for a man to grow old without ever seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable.

  4. ^Thanks for the discount code. Don't know about y'all, but getting raws separately from different sources, weighing them, mixing them, and then putting them in capsules is tedious as hell. These guys have a ridiculously strong formula and it's already encapsulated. The time and energy I'm saving with this is mind blowing. ****s all over any other nootropic supplement on the market.

  5. That's what it was mostly made for. I spoke to them, and they said they were aware it was going to be expensive, but there are a lot of guys out there who are willing to cough up the cash for a strong formula like this, just because of the convenience factor. They said they were well aware it wouldn't appeal to everyone, but hell omnit is expensive and underdosed as hell, and they're making bank!! The company also has plans to release a budget version somewhere down the road. It's a stsrt up company, so obviously they have to cover their expenses first
    No citizen has a right to be an amateur in the matter of physical training...what a disgrace it is for a man to grow old without ever seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable.
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by Buffspartan View Post
    One thing that you failed to realize however is that Noopept only has a 10% bioavailability when taken orally. That's why most in the nootropics community take it sublingually or intranasally via a spray. So only about 5mg of those 50mg will be effective so I think it's a pretty fair dose. I think the high price is mostly due to the Phenylpiracetam and Ashweganda, which the company has told me is KSM66 extract. Also, DMHA can be expensive depending on the manufacturer, so it is possible that their particular manufacturer overcharged them.

    I also just found out they have a discount code for one of the Facebook nootropics groups. I'm not sure if I can share it here, but I doubt anyone will find out, so I will post it anyway. It's NIKO45 and it gives you 45% off at checkout. That's one of the group admin's codes. They also announced today that they are giving a 14 day money back guarentee for the first 100 orders.
    I wasn't forgetting anything, it is very common knowledge about the bioavailability and it doesn't change anything because it only takes a very small amount of noopept to be effective and the rest is metabolized. My point was that nooptept is best taken when split into smaller doses throughout the day. I get what they are trying to do and I imagine it is fine for the small group they may be targeting, but my point was that it is very expensive at 10 doses per bottle based on the ingredient profile and if it is the KSM-66 driving up the price, should be removed anyway as that is a staple supplement, not the occasional, which this product is obviously geared towards.

    Listen, I give them credit for trying something different and actually providing a healthy amount of product. If they brought this into the $40 range, they will probably be successful.
  7. Azoth


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  8. Join date of Jan with 3 posts, they are in this thread, and a marketing pitch commentary...hmmmm. You wouldn't have a connection with Azoth now, would you?

  9. Quote Originally Posted by kisaj View Post
    I wasn't forgetting anything, it is very common knowledge about the bioavailability and it doesn't change anything because it only takes a very small amount of noopept to be effective and the rest is metabolized. My point was that nooptept is best taken when split into smaller doses throughout the day. I get what they are trying to do and I imagine it is fine for the small group they may be targeting, but my point was that it is very expensive at 10 doses per bottle based on the ingredient profile and if it is the KSM-66 driving up the price, should be removed anyway as that is a staple supplement, not the occasional, which this product is obviously geared towards.

    Listen, I give them credit for trying something different and actually providing a healthy amount of product. If they brought this into the $40 range, they will probably be successful.
    Well the serving size is 3 capsules so you can split the dose. And actually, a few guys in the nootropics group said they don't get any effects below 50mg. I personally use 50mg in a single dose, because that is what works on me. At the same time you got other guys that are taking 10mg. There is a coupon code for 45% off, which would bring the price down to like $43 or something. I think like a lot of companies (Muscletech, cellucor, etc) they probably started the retail price high so they could have room to work with in terms of discounts and specials. Otherwise, if one starts the price already low, there's no room for special offers. Like in sure they could have just sold it for $40, but with that formula, there certainly won't be any sales. The Phenylpiracetam is probably the bulk of it, along with the DMHA, and KSM-66. NALT is cheap. Alpha GPC is expensive though. Idk, ill have to review the formula more but I'd buy it for $40-45, definitely.
    No citizen has a right to be an amateur in the matter of physical training...what a disgrace it is for a man to grow old without ever seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable.

  10. Plus at the beginning there are extra costs in terms of designing packaging, labels, and third party testing that contribute to a significant cost. I'm sure down the road the price will go down. I've looked into making stuff before, and it's quite the process, and you need to have a funds. It takes a while to cover your expenses and start making $$$. I don't have those resources at the moment unfortunately
    No citizen has a right to be an amateur in the matter of physical training...what a disgrace it is for a man to grow old without ever seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable.

  11. Quote Originally Posted by kisaj View Post
    Join date of Jan with 3 posts, they are in this thread, and a marketing pitch commentary...hmmmm. You wouldn't have a connection with Azoth now, would you?
    Oh that guy, yeah he could be, idk. Although that username doesn't really doesn't seem like either of the names of the two guys who own it. I actually spoke to them at length via email. They're pretty cool guys. Just a couple of young college students trying to stsrt their own businesses for tuition money. I definitely congratulate them on their efforts. I did express my concern about the price and they did say there were a lot of unexpected expenses at the beginning. Hopefully I can convince them to lower the price at least somewhat.
    No citizen has a right to be an amateur in the matter of physical training...what a disgrace it is for a man to grow old without ever seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable.

  12. Quote Originally Posted by Buffspartan View Post
    One thing that you failed to realize however is that Noopept only has a 10% bioavailability when taken orally. That's why most in the nootropics community take it sublingually or intranasally via a spray. So only about 5mg of those 50mg will be effective so I think it's a pretty fair dose. I think the high price is mostly due to the Phenylpiracetam and Ashweganda, which the company has told me is KSM66 extract. Also, DMHA can be expensive depending on the manufacturer, so it is possible that their particular manufacturer overcharged them.

    I also just found out they have a discount code for one of the Facebook nootropics groups. I'm not sure if I can share it here, but I doubt anyone will find out, so I will post it anyway. It's NIKO45 and it gives you 45% off at checkout. That's one of the group admin's codes. They also announced today that they are giving a 14 day money back guarentee for the first 100 orders.
    That'd only be a relevant issue if all of the studies didn't use oral administration, which many do, for both animals and humans. As for ashwagandha, KSM-66, it's not all that expensive, trust me. Nothing in that formula even comes close to justifying that outlandish price. Also, most studies use 600mg/day KSM-66 (300mg twice daily), so you're not even getting your "ideal" daily dose of ashwagandha from there, although it's still an effective dose.
    Quote Originally Posted by Buffspartan View Post
    Well the serving size is 3 capsules so you can split the dose. And actually, a few guys in the nootropics group said they don't get any effects below 50mg. I personally use 50mg in a single dose, because that is what works on me. At the same time you got other guys that are taking 10mg. There is a coupon code for 45% off, which would bring the price down to like $43 or something. I think like a lot of companies (Muscletech, cellucor, etc) they probably started the retail price high so they could have room to work with in terms of discounts and specials. Otherwise, if one starts the price already low, there's no room for special offers. Like in sure they could have just sold it for $40, but with that formula, there certainly won't be any sales. The Phenylpiracetam is probably the bulk of it, along with the DMHA, and KSM-66. NALT is cheap. Alpha GPC is expensive though. Idk, ill have to review the formula more but I'd buy it for $40-45, definitely.
    The problem with taking 1-2 caps to get more a moderate dose of Noopept is that you're now getting even less of the other ingredients, some of which wouldn't be dosed effectively at all if this were the case. Also, what's the point of 350mg NALT? The research suggests that l-tyrosine > NALT, and pretty much all of the positive tyrosine studies use l-tyrosine, and those tend to use 2g or more. Also, due to the phenylpiracetam, it's not something I'd want to take daily. It's a pretty interesting and solid forumula, but it is nowhere near being worth the cost, even at the discounted price, which is still >$4 per serving. There are other options out there that are just as effective and a lot more affordable, so you could just pick up some standalone phenylpiracetam to add as needed. Also, phenylpiracetam isn't nearly that expensive; if you know where to look, you can get the same amount as is in the total of Azoth for <$4, and that's not even buying in true "bulk" quantities. As for the ashwagandha, you can get the amount that's in the 10 servings for under $1, and that's also not even buying in bulk from the manufacturer, but from a third party who also has to make money and package/label the product.

    TL;DR: It's a pretty good formula, although not something I'd want to take daily (phenylpiracetam), but the outlandish price is nowhere near justified, and you can find similar, or arguably even better, formulas for much less money. I know it sounds harsh, but I don't want people "wasting" their money. Granted, the product will "work," but when you can get something that works just was well for less than 1/2 the price, you're wasting money.
    Performax Labs Online Rep.
    Facebook.com/pmaxlabs
    www.PerformaxLabs.com

  13. Quote Originally Posted by muscleupcrohn View Post
    That'd only be a relevant issue if all of the studies didn't use oral administration, which many do, for both animals and humans. As for ashwagandha, KSM-66, it's not all that expensive, trust me. Nothing in that formula even comes close to justifying that outlandish price. Also, most studies use 600mg/day KSM-66 (300mg twice daily), so you're not even getting your "ideal" daily dose of ashwagandha from there, although it's still an effective dose.

    The problem with taking 1-2 caps to get more a moderate dose of Noopept is that you're now getting even less of the other ingredients, some of which wouldn't be dosed effectively at all if this were the case. Also, what's the point of 350mg NALT? The research suggests that l-tyrosine > NALT, and pretty much all of the positive tyrosine studies use l-tyrosine, and those tend to use 2g or more. Also, due to the phenylpiracetam, it's not something I'd want to take daily. It's a pretty interesting and solid forumula, but it is nowhere near being worth the cost, even at the discounted price, which is still >$4 per serving. There are other options out there that are just as effective and a lot more affordable, so you could just pick up some standalone phenylpiracetam to add as needed. Also, phenylpiracetam isn't nearly that expensive; if you know where to look, you can get the same amount as is in the total of Azoth for <$4, and that's not even buying in true "bulk" quantities. As for the ashwagandha, you can get the amount that's in the 10 servings for under $1, and that's also not even buying in bulk from the manufacturer, but from a third party who also has to make money and package/label the product.

    TL;DR: It's a pretty good formula, although not something I'd want to take daily (phenylpiracetam), but the outlandish price is nowhere near justified, and you can find similar, or arguably even better, formulas for much less money. I know it sounds harsh, but I don't want people "wasting" their money. Granted, the product will "work," but when you can get something that works just was well for less than 1/2 the price, you're wasting money.
    I'll talk to them about dropping the discounts and just cutting the price in half. I found out they live in my state, not too far from me, so I'll probably just offer them $40 cash and arrange to meet one of them somewhere. I can update you guys on what I think of it.
    No citizen has a right to be an amateur in the matter of physical training...what a disgrace it is for a man to grow old without ever seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable.

  14. From what I gather, they're marketing it more as a performance enhancer as opposed to a long term nootropic. More along the lines of like an alternative to say modafinil. They're selling it to their classmates as like a study aid and hangover cure, and so far they seem to be getting decent feedback. Probably what I'll use it for as well. I honestly do sympathize with them. It's their first attempt at a company of any sort and I'd love to see them succeed, especially being so young and all, but I just can't see spending $80 on it. $40 I probably would based on that formula. Like I know how much all this stuff costs individually, so $40-45 is not unreasonable. Yeah, it's a little more than I would pay separately, but honestly, the convenience of the capsulation is worth it to me
    No citizen has a right to be an amateur in the matter of physical training...what a disgrace it is for a man to grow old without ever seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable.

  15. You're just gonna tell them to lower the price and then go meet them to offer $40 for some? Lol. This thread has turned into a nice joke.

  16. Quote Originally Posted by Buffspartan View Post
    From what I gather, they're marketing it more as a performance enhancer as opposed to a long term nootropic. More along the lines of like an alternative to say modafinil. They're selling it to their classmates as like a study aid and hangover cure, and so far they seem to be getting decent feedback. Probably what I'll use it for as well. I honestly do sympathize with them. It's their first attempt at a company of any sort and I'd love to see them succeed, especially being so young and all, but I just can't see spending $80 on it. $40 I probably would based on that formula. Like I know how much all this stuff costs individually, so $40-45 is not unreasonable. Yeah, it's a little more than I would pay separately, but honestly, the convenience of the capsulation is worth it to me
    What I'm saying is that there are other options that are pretty much just as effective for a fraction of the price, and if there's something missing, you could always use some of the leftover money to add something that you don't want to take daily, like phenylpiracetam. If you're in school, you'd be better off taking something that has your choline source, huperzine, Noopept, etc on a daily basis, and adding your phenylpiracetam and whatnot on as as-needed basis. Some of these things work better with regular/daily dosing than acute dosing. I'd recommend getting something that covers your daily bases for less than $2/day (and that's for a capped supplement too), and then pick up your phenylpiracetam, which you should be able to get for definitely under $1 per serving (as caps, powder is even cheaper of course). If you want to really get the full benefits from nootropics, you'll want to take some of them daily, which means that you'd need another supplement besides this one to use most of the time, and at that point the only things that you wouldn't be getting from something you could use daily would be the phenylpiracetam (which you can pick up for <$1 per serving capped), and DMHA, which, while interesting, doesn't justify everything above.
    Performax Labs Online Rep.
    Facebook.com/pmaxlabs
    www.PerformaxLabs.com

  17. Quote Originally Posted by kisaj View Post
    You're just gonna tell them to lower the price and then go meet them to offer $40 for some? Lol. This thread has turned into a nice joke.
    Hey, they just went live a week ago. I'm sure they'd be open to constructive criticism. If not, then **** em. I definitely would hate to see them fail, especially after talking to them and seeing how much time and money they have invested in this. They did mention possibly having an upcoming promotional event at one of the universities in Boston, so I may attend that since it's not too far from me. I'm interested in what they're doing, and being that they're kids and not sketchy old guys, I can identify with them.
    No citizen has a right to be an amateur in the matter of physical training...what a disgrace it is for a man to grow old without ever seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable.

  18. Not to beat a dead horse, but I just can't wrap my mind around spending $8 per serving on a nootropic. Honestly, it almost insults me. Hopefully that once people start using it, they'll be able to use their improved cognitive abilities to realize that they can get the same thing for a LOT cheaper. It reminds me of Limitless, where the whole time I was wondering why Bradley Cooper didn't just make more NZT-48 as soon as he was a genius, which he eventually ended up doing I think.

    If you're interested in some nootropics, here are some quality ones that you can use daily that I think compare well with Azoth, except they don't have phenylpiracetam. I'm not in love with all of the supplements below, but I think that they can stack up at least fairly well with Azoth, can be used daily, and are much, much more affordable, so you can add 1-2 ingredients to them as needed and still save a ton of money (in no particular order):

    Noowave High Performer ($50 for 30 servings) Good formula, I just don't like the massive 400mg dose of theanine at all
    Noowave Socialite ($50 for 30 servings) Different than HP above, but lots of similar ingredients as HP and Azoth, with a similar philosophy as Azoth in that it has some stimulants but no caffeine
    Primeval Labs Grey Matter ($44-50 for 30 servings) Lots of similarities with Azoth
    Olympus Labs Elixir ($33 for 30 servings; powder) Good formula, also has some herbal extracts, but no Noopept/racetams
    SNS Focus XT ($22 for 30 servings; powder) Good basic formula, also no Noopept/racetams
    Performax NootropiMax (not quite out yet), but I can tell you it will be great, and stack up quite well against Azoth at a fraction of the price

    Take any of the above, which are all less than $2 per serving (the most expensive is $1.67 per serving), and when you want a little extra, add in a cap or two of phenylpiracetam, which should be under $1 per serving if you know where to look. That puts you at $2.67 per serving, max, or about 1/3 of the $8 per serving. Even $4 per serving is asking a lot, but at least it's not completely insane.
    Performax Labs Online Rep.
    Facebook.com/pmaxlabs
    www.PerformaxLabs.com

  19. Guess I'll revive this. I'm currently taking Azoth myself.

    So far, I've noticed a significant difference in my focus throughout the day. It works very well, but I did notice a huge comedown on days where I didn't take it. This Saturday for instance, I did not take anything and felt a little lightheaded by the end of the day. I cannot say it was solely due to Azoth however, but it would be my #1 guess.

    So far I'd say it's worth trying, but it's not something you would want to take everyday. I'm saving it for days I feel I will need it at work. Best Nootropic product I've taken in a long time I'd say.

  20. Quote Originally Posted by Clipper83 View Post
    Guess I'll revive this. I'm currently taking Azoth myself.

    So far, I've noticed a significant difference in my focus throughout the day. It works very well, but I did notice a huge comedown on days where I didn't take it. This Saturday for instance, I did not take anything and felt a little lightheaded by the end of the day. I cannot say it was solely due to Azoth however, but it would be my #1 guess.

    So far I'd say it's worth trying, but it's not something you would want to take everyday. I'm saving it for days I feel I will need it at work. Best Nootropic product I've taken in a long time I'd say.
    I highly recommend finding something that you can take daily, and perhaps using this instead on days where you want the added bonus of phenylpiracetam, if you're not already taking something daily. Not only will it lead to better long-term effects/results, but it may even help you feel better and minimize the "comedown" on days where you're not using Azoth, as you'll still be taking a solid nootropic formula.
    Performax Labs Online Rep.
    Facebook.com/pmaxlabs
    www.PerformaxLabs.com

  21. That's the plan.

  22. $45 on the site now....still > $4 a serving. Tough capsule to swallow (pun intended)

  23. Quote Originally Posted by shockrock3 View Post
    $45 on the site now....still > $4 a serving. Tough capsule to swallow (pun intended)
    There is a promo code floating around for 50% off also

  24. If you need to provide 50% discounts, you are doing it wrong and it means it is not priced properly to begin with.

  25. Quote Originally Posted by chotadesi View Post
    ^Thanks for the discount code. Don't know about y'all, but getting raws separately from different sources, weighing them, mixing them, and then putting them in capsules is tedious as hell. These guys have a ridiculously strong formula and it's already encapsulated. The time and energy I'm saving with this is mind blowing. ****s all over any other nootropic supplement on the market.
    Quote Originally Posted by Clipper83 View Post
    Guess I'll revive this. I'm currently taking Azoth myself.

    So far, I've noticed a significant difference in my focus throughout the day. It works very well, but I did notice a huge comedown on days where I didn't take it. This Saturday for instance, I did not take anything and felt a little lightheaded by the end of the day. I cannot say it was solely due to Azoth however, but it would be my #1 guess.

    So far I'd say it's worth trying, but it's not something you would want to take everyday. I'm saving it for days I feel I will need it at work. Best Nootropic product I've taken in a long time I'd say.

    @carguy123 @Texanpride199 I have used AZOTH 4 times now. The energy and focus last for a good 3 hours and I can definitely feel the noopept in it. If you have ever used nasal spray noopept, for me everything appears in HD vision and it sort of makes me think deeper into things. As far as the Noopept is concerned yes it's high but the bioavailability is the key here. From my research I see it is between 5%-10% conversion. The Phenypiracetam can cause tolerance buildup and the trick is to use AZOTH something like every third day or twice a week. All in all a great product.
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