Coffee vs Caffeine

[pbandy1]

Just wondering what you guys prefer when it comes to either nootropics or a even a pre-workout.

Lately I've noticed caffeine seems to stress me out more than coffee, even when the caffeine content is more or less the same. It is nice to start the day with a stimulant but I feel like getting stressed out is the opposite effect I'm trying to achieve with nootropics.

I also read a study recently - The metabolic and performance effects of caffeine compared to coffee during endurance exercise. - that suggests that coffee and caffeine are equal in terms of exercise performance (at least, for endurance), but that caffeine has different metabolic effects than coffee, even when caffeine content is the same (5 mg/kg bw). Caffeine increased serum glycerol and lactate more significantly than coffee did.

Perhaps a reason for this is a larger increase in cortisol, or catecholamines such as epi/norepinephrine from the caffeine.

 

[hewhoisripped]

Here's a (slightly unrelated) hypothesis I've held for a while: we know that smell/taste can be a powerful stimuli. For example, you smell a burger, now you're hungry. I think it's easier for our body to associate caffeine with coffee's flavor/smell than it is for random preworkouts, pills, etc. Because of this, I feel (again, just what I feel, not fact) that coffee can be more potent, or at least result in different effects. For example, I think that if someone handed me a cup of decaf, I would drink it and swear I fell energized.

 

[pbandy1]

Here's a (slightly unrelated) hypothesis I've held for a while: we know that smell/taste can be a powerful stimuli. For example, you smell a burger, now you're hungry. I think it's easier for our body to associate caffeine with coffee's flavor/smell than it is for random preworkouts, pills, etc. Because of this, I feel (again, just what I feel, not fact) that coffee can be more potent, or at least result in different effects. For example, I think that if someone handed me a cup of decaf, I would drink it and swear I fell energized.

You know, that is a great point. There is something to sipping on a coffee for an hour and easing into the day, as opposed to downing a 200 mg caffeine pill.

Another thing I've been wondering about is insulin sensitivity. Coffee seems to be good in the long-term because of chlorogenic acid, which can cause increases in adiponectin (good, perhaps this is why coffee is beneficial for those with Type II diabetes). However caffeine anhydrous seems to acutely increase insulin resistance, perhaps by decreasing Glut4 expression... not 100% on this but I'm trying to remember from what I've on various studies and examine.com

 

[kisaj]

Here's a (slightly unrelated) hypothesis I've held for a while: we know that smell/taste can be a powerful stimuli. For example, you smell a burger, now you're hungry. I think it's easier for our body to associate caffeine with coffee's flavor/smell than it is for random preworkouts, pills, etc. Because of this, I feel (again, just what I feel, not fact) that coffee can be more potent, or at least result in different effects. For example, I think that if someone handed me a cup of decaf, I would drink it and swear I fell energized.

Totally agree with this. As a test when my wife was dealing with bad bouts of anxiety I switched over to decaf without telling her and she never noticed a difference in the coffee, but her restlessness and anxiety was noticeably less and she thought she was still getting the same thing. For me, just the smell awakens my senses in the morning.

Taking caffeine, ends up with me feeling jittery and on edge. As mentioned, I think it also has to do with the consumption. Taking it all at once, as opposed to enjoying a cup or two of coffee over the morning.

 

[double s]

I tend to agree with you all, about the sensory effects with drinking coffee.

Could it also be a typical cup of coffee is 85-100mgs of caffeine where most PWO's are coming in at 200+ mgs?

 

[kboxer7]

Just wondering what you guys prefer when it comes to either nootropics or a even a pre-workout.

Lately I've noticed caffeine seems to stress me out more than coffee, even when the caffeine content is more or less the same. It is nice to start the day with a stimulant but I feel like getting stressed out is the opposite effect I'm trying to achieve with nootropics.

I also read a study recently - The metabolic and performance effects of caffeine compared to coffee during endurance exercise. - that suggests that coffee and caffeine are equal in terms of exercise performance (at least, for endurance), but that caffeine has different metabolic effects than coffee, even when caffeine content is the same (5 mg/kg bw). Caffeine increased serum glycerol and lactate more significantly than coffee did.

Perhaps a reason for this is a larger increase in cortisol, or catecholamines such as epi/norepinephrine from the caffeine.

Same here.

While I can't argue with the others' thoughts on the sensory aspect of coffee (which I tend to think plays a role), I will say that without a doubt the metabolism of caffeine in pill form vs in coffee most certainly affects how I feel on either.

I can better replicate coffee, though not to quite the same extent, by slow sipping that same 200mg over a 30min period....or taking in 100mg of caff anhydrous with 50mg each of caff citrate and caff malate.

The varied rates of metabolism seem to take that edge off vs 200mg of caff anhydrous and the anxiety factor goes down tremendously.

My last thought on this is that the anti-oxidants in coffee play a role in how caffeine affects us and I feel like this is a major contributing factor to the differences between the two.

 

[double s]

At the end of the day, I think we as a society are becoming over caffeinated, people working longer days, want that extra boost in the gym whatever.

Here in MA it doesn't help that there is a Dunkin Donuts on every corner. In some cities, one across the street from another....

As for supps, I respect prop blends but if anything I wish it would be mandatory to at least list caffeine content

Just my 2 cents, stepping off my soap box.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

At the end of the day, I think we as a society are becoming over caffeinated, people working longer days, want that extra boost in the gym whatever.

Here in MA it doesn't help that there is a Dunkin Donuts on every corner. In some cities, one across the street from another....

As for supps, I respect prop blends but if anything I wish it would be mandatory to at least list caffeine content

Just my 2 cents, stepping off my soap box.

I agree, to a point. I wouldn't say that it's necessarily that people are ingesting caffeine to the point where it is detrimental to their health (probably only really hurts their wallet), but many people make the mistake of thinking that more caffeine will fix their lethargy and lack of energy, regardless of the cause. If you're not getting sleep, not eating properly, and are very stressed, a few cups of coffee isn't going to make you feel completely revitalized and energized. That said, I love me some caffeine, and it's an incredible supplement when used responsibly.

 

[pbandy1]

Same here.

While I can't argue with the others' thoughts on the sensory aspect of coffee (which I tend to think plays a role), I will say that without a doubt the metabolism of caffeine in pill form vs in coffee most certainly affects how I feel on either.

I can better replicate coffee, though not to quite the same extent, by slow sipping that same 200mg over a 30min period....or taking in 100mg of caff anhydrous with 50mg each of caff citrate and caff malate.

The varied rates of metabolism seem to take that edge off vs 200mg of caff anhydrous and the anxiety factor goes down tremendously.

My last thought on this is that the anti-oxidants in coffee play a role in how caffeine affects us and I feel like this is a major contributing factor to the differences between the two.

I actually looked at the study again I posted in the OP, and it mentions that the polyphenols in coffee (specifically, chlorogenic acid) may antagonize adenosine receptor binding of caffeine. Essentially, caffeine anhydrous is a better adenosine antagonist when in its pure form as opposed to caffeine from coffee.