now THIS is a lot of green

[spatch]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060202/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/defense_budget

 

[gixxman]

Can anyone say Military Industrial Complex...lol...well i guess i did...

 

[400runner]

can anyone say get rid of the bastard.

 

[DAdams91982]

Wow... I cant believe you all have a price tag for your freedoms, and values. Maybe its only me, but Im glad that my family is back in the good old USA safe and sound. All because of the US Military.

Safety is one of the fundamental Individual needs.

Adams

 

[MaynardMeek]

I like how the similar threads for this post all have to do with green tea

 

[somewhatgifted]

I live in canada and im safe... That 5% is prolly more than canada has. lol

 

[Grunt76]

Yeh Canada is safe as long as it doesn't invest in its armed forces. With about 10 times the coastal length of the USA and 1/10th the population, there's NO WAY it can protect its frontiers from invaders if someone finds it becomes some kind of threat.

Any money invested in the military by Canada, above just a basic, small token force like it currently has, is money down the drain and can only serve as a signal to other nations that it is looking to become a threat. Meekness is its only true defence. It's a VERY different position than the USA.

 

[somewhatgifted]

lol grunt i see what your saying.lol but how about not killing people in there own back yard, i think that may have something to do with it.lol canada always gets bullyd by the states.

 

[Grunt76]

lol grunt i see what your saying.lol but how about not killing people in there own back yard, i think that may have something to do with it.lol canada always gets bullyd by the states.

That's what being small and weak gets you. It's a dog-eat-dog world in politics. Being a chipmunk next to an 800lb gorilla isn't the easiest situation... An no, having a zillion immigrants a year like Canada has been doing is NOT a solution for national strength.

 

[natedogg]

Get some President Bush.

 

[DAdams91982]

This is how I live my life - I earn more than I spend, other people are not expected to pay my debts, I don't expect life time employment from my boss and I don't meddle in the affairs of others who should be taking of their own business. You want freedom and values?, earn it for yourselves.


Does the Federal goverment operate this way? No, they run the opposite while giving additional entitlements to the already richest segement of society (seniors) that's mortgaging the future of the younger workers with increasing debt, a 25th ranked, in relation to other competing nations, math and science education, a health care system that costs $8 for an aspirin, sewers and roads that aren't being fixed, and illegals pouring across my unsecured borders.

I could go on with examples of why expenditures on Trident Subs are unnecessary after the cold war when our troops can't get enough body armor, and why the 200 million guns on the streets of America are both a good deterent to foreign invasion and a ready supply for a future internal conflict in an increasingly polarized society.

We troops have PLENTY of body armour... your views impressed by the media are very much skewed. Why do you think not more money has been put into newer armored HUMVEEs, or other protection of the sort? and really this is two fold. It is because we are the dominating force in this war, it isnt needed, there isnt anything insurgents have, that can stand up to us at all... coupled on top of the bitching and moaning about the "National Debt." So I say kudo's, our military always could be stronger. Just because the cold war is over doesnt mean a damn thing. The Proactive attitude of President Bush is exactly what we needed. Instead of becoming complacent, and allowing us to be attacked on our own soil again, something is being done. Which is why we SHOULD "meddle" in other affairs. Let Iran obtain nukes?? **** THAT, wipe em up before its a problem. Let Saddam gas more, and gain more power, and more artillary??? Again.. **** THAT. Being who we are, we should be the world police... it comes with the territory of being the world superpower.

Roads and Sewers are upon state taxes, so that is not applicable here, bitch at your state if you have that problem.

Also, do you really think our national debt has anything to do with our taxes??? Its only a number, that will never mean anything... everyone is in debt to us for something or another.

 

[DAdams91982]

Get some President Bush.

Spoken like a true Devil Dog... Much respect. :thumbsup:

Adams

 

[Grunt76]

Being who we are, we should be the world police...

Isn't that what Hitler said?

I love freedom, but when protection of said freedom turns into massive bombings left and right, I get to wonder how much of this "proactive retaliation", aka agression, the rest of the world is willing to take before they export a plague or nuke to LA or somesuch. There has NEVER been an empire to survive expanding domination over the world.

It has been tried many many many times. The Romans' democracy was vastly superior to everyone else's way of life, but that didn't keep that empire from collapsing. IMO the USA is headed towards that same fate. Observation of history says it is 100% likely.

My concern with this is firstly the extreme power of todays' technologies. Never before has destructive power of such scale been available. We have only ONE planet. Damage it too much, and what will mankind do?

 

[delta314]

Get some President Bush.

:clap2:
Semper Fi!!!!!

 

[delta314]

We troops have PLENTY of body armour... your views impressed by the media are very much skewed. Why do you think not more money has been put into newer armored HUMVEEs, or other protection of the sort? and really this is two fold. It is because we are the dominating force in this war, it isnt needed, there isnt anything insurgents have, that can stand up to us at all... coupled on top of the bitching and moaning about the "National Debt." So I say kudo's, our military always could be stronger. Just because the cold war is over doesnt mean a damn thing. The Proactive attitude of President Bush is exactly what we needed. Instead of becoming complacent, and allowing us to be attacked on our own soil again, something is being done. Which is why we SHOULD "meddle" in other affairs. Let Iran obtain nukes?? **** THAT, wipe em up before its a problem. Let Saddam gas more, and gain more power, and more artillary??? Again.. **** THAT. Being who we are, we should be the world police... it comes with the territory of being the world superpower.

Roads and Sewers are upon state taxes, so that is not applicable here, bitch at your state if you have that problem.

Also, do you really think our national debt has anything to do with our taxes??? Its only a number, that will never mean anything... everyone is in debt to us for something or another.

:clap2: :goodpost:

 

[DAdams91982]

Isn't that what Hitler said?

You do make good arguements. But you also have to see the difference in these... Hitler conquered, and took. Also tried to "Genetically Cleanse" the earth. We are trying to prevent future Hitlers (Saddam) We share democracy and move on, "Kuwait". Of course there will be casualties when something great happens, but unfortunately such is life. We will never be taken down.. as such the red white and blue colors will not fade.

Adams

 

[MaynardMeek]

Isn't that what Hitler said?


hilter never said that... hitler didn't want to be the police of the world.. he wanted to be a God...people on both ends of the curve have to stop using hitler all together.. yes.. saddam was on the same track as hitler but he was shy by a couple million people ;-)

 

[CDB]

I smell a good fight coming on this one, "Dr. CDB and Nurse Biohazzard, code blue to the OR, stat"

This is how I live my life - I earn more than I spend, other people are not expected to pay my debts, I don't expect life time employment from my boss and I don't meddle in the affairs of others who should be taking of their own business. You want freedom and values?, earn it for yourselves.


Does the Federal goverment operate this way? No

That's the tendency in a democratic republic. No one owns the government so to speak, all debts get passed on to future office holders and future generations of tax payers. The only long term incentive for elected officials is to loot as much as possible and redistribute as much wealth as possible amongst their friends and allies.

When you compare the democratic republic model, public ownership of government, with monarchies, private ownership of government, you can see the stark differences. For hundreds of years before democracy caught on the the overall tax load was well below 10% of GDP for monarchies, wars were for the most part between sovereigns over specific lands, titles, etc. Wars were fought but more limited, and the overall tendency of government debt was to go up during war and down in peace time.

Republican democracies come into the picture en masse and in less than one hundred years the tax load goes from barely changing and consistently below 10% up to 30-50% of GDP. Wars become total and brutal. Common law traditions are destroyed by massive amounts of wealth transfer legislation, something which simply did not exist before. The consumer price indexes fly through the roof as the government inflates the money supply to monetize their debt, and the debt load increases nonstop during peace and war times. Minumum interest rates which tended to trend downward over time freeze or even start to rise, savings rates among private individuals start to decline. Every indicator of a high, immediate consumption culture that's doomed to implode goes up.

That's why I'm not a supporter of democracy for democracy's sake. I think the whole system is stupid and corrupt and destined to implode quicker than most forms of government. Look at the historic republics and how brutal they were in war, and how quickly, historically speaking, they destroyed themselves for the most part. But people these days are conditioned to think that all good things flow from a democratic government, whether they know it or not. Democracy isn't the source of a good society, private property is.

A great book on the subject which I've recommended before is Democracy: The God that Failed, by Hans Herman Hoppe. It's a great analysis of pre WWI and post WWI history and the effect the advancement of democratic republicanism has had on the world.

 

[Grunt76]

Isn't that what Hitler said?


hilter never said that... hitler didn't want to be the police of the world.. he wanted to be a God...people on both ends of the curve have to stop using hitler all together.. yes.. saddam was on the same track as hitler but he was shy by a couple million people ;-)

Nope, he didn't SAY that. But his take was that Germans were superior to others.

The statement

Being who we are, we should be the world police...

implies superiority. Hence, it boils down to the exact same take on things: We are better than others, so we have the right to kill/bomb/destroy those who do not correspond to our views.

I'm repping CDB with whom I have had disagreements on politics before. Great post man.

We will never be taken down.. as such the red white and blue colors will not fade.

You know man, I'm not trying to argue for argument's sake, but history says 100% otherwise. CDB seems to know his history also, and all the indicators, sadly, point opposite to what you are saying, and it is a good wish, America is a great nation, it has a LOT of great points for itself. Still, all the indicators that students of history can see point to an imploding empire, rather sooner than later. I'm not saying I WISH it to be so, but that it looks pretty sure that things are headed that way.

 

[King Nothing]

I thought this thread was gonna be about marijuana, lol. Damn was i off

 

[delta314]

Nope, he didn't SAY that. But his take was that Germans were superior to others.

The statementimplies superiority. Hence, it boils down to the exact same take on things: We are better than others, so we have the right to kill/bomb/destroy those who do not correspond to our views.

I'm repping CDB with whom I have had disagreements on politics before. Great post man.

Grunt, I don't think we have the "right" to do this, as much as I believe we have an "obligation" to protect the smaller countries and maintain at the least, the equality of freedom compared communism. If we were to stand by and mind our own business, one by one terrorist dictators would seize control of all the small countries until one day we would wake up and realize we are the only free nation left, and the red machine is scratching at our borders.

 

[DAdams91982]

Holy **** Rogue drone, why not fly off the fucking deep end dont you?

Come at me when you dont have Hearsay to back you up. I as well as MANY other individuals on this board have been in the same **** your ranger bud has. So pick Delta's or Beelz, or Natedoggs brain.

So for Iran... your saying be reactive, after a nuke is used, then flatten em? I hope your thinking the same thing when a terrorist comes knocking at your childrens door... you know for that lovely box of girl scout cookies and all (Hey they can dig into the free market too).

And while were at the idea of a totally capitalistic society... hey theres an idea... why not??? The hell with the homeless... Hungry, to bad, no welfare here anymore... Federal help with education **** that... your stuck at mcdonalds the rest of your life, cause colleges dont like fronting an education.

And again, why are we associating Fed with Broken down buildings? Bitch at your state.

Adams

 

[DAdams91982]

Grunt, I don't think we have the "right" to do this, as much as I believe we have an "obligation" to protect the smaller countries and maintain at the least, the equality of freedom compared communism. If we were to stand by and mind our own business, one by one terrorist dictators would seize control of all the small countries until one day we would wake up and realize we are the only free nation left, and the red machine is scratching at our borders.

I agree, I would much rather deal with this terrorist issue on foreign soil. I dont want it to be when I open my front door, and stare one in the face (Of course when I get stationed back in the states)

Adams

 

[delta314]

Next time I see my Ranger High school Bud, the one that operates in Afghanistan, I'll tell him he was lying about having to secure additional Ammo,Javelins, Barretts and SAWs to the
Th Mountain Divison Mountain to properly secure his unit's flanks when his Rangers go out. What a fucking liar he is, Adams set me straight on that one.

Iran is a seperate issue from Iraq. Ultimately the way to curb them is to assure them that any nuke of there's that's used, and they know we can trace the isotopes to their reactors,will result in a massive retaliatory nuclear response from us. Your nukes are ever used, and we'll wipe Iran off the map. Same with North Korea, invade the South and we'll turn your country to ash. Assured Destruction, not mutual, applied to the Soviets and it will be used on these two. That's evil but necessary and preferable to trying to slug it on the ground.

I will be getting much satisfaction from knowing we have the world's back as I continue watching my property taxes go up and up from the junk bond interest rates my city had to float because they get inadeqate backing from the feds to cover the basic infastructure repairs, my kid lost his job because 40% of his peers can't do algebra so the job went to Singapore, and later I died because there's no trauma center within 15 miles of my location, I bled out on the way to the ER from being gutshot by an illegal 4th grade educated peasant who hates the ugly old gringo who did'nt like his retarded Mariachi music.

I payed over $30,000 in income tax last year, $2800 in property tax, god only knows how much in sales tax at every level before I bought items and I'll be godamned if I'm getting my money's worth here, in my country, my country's issues, I want to see additional long term investment here, not in solving every else's problems.

You think we can sustain this federal deficeit spending, this inadeqaute educational system, this 10% yearly increase in health care costs, this loss of quality jobs, this trade imbalance, this unregulated immigration, this increasing regulation and taxation of our lives by washington, we can't, we're decaying internally.

I'm a liberatarian, I believe the private marketplace can solve problems vastly better overall than monopoly governments, cut the taxes and privatize, we could spend 600 billion a year on defense and still stay out of the red if we did something as effective as privitazing Social Security.

I can't figure out exactly where you stand on this, but you have made some excellent points that I find hard to argue with. As long as our military does not diminish, and we still stand for all the things this country was built on, I would not have any problem with privatizing things like social security, medical, etc...But it would have to be a good solid program that would not just swap greedy politicians making money to greedy private citizens making money. BTW, loved the part about the ugly gringo and the retarded ariachi music....still rolling on the floor!:toofunny:

 

[delta314]

Holy **** Rogue drone, why not fly off the fucking deep end dont you?

Come at me when you dont have Hearsay to back you up. I as well as MANY other individuals on this board have been in the same **** your ranger bud has. So pick Delta's or Beelz, or Natedoggs brain.

So for Iran... your saying be reactive, after a nuke is used, then flatten em? I hope your thinking the same thing when a terrorist comes knocking at your childrens door... you know for that lovely box of girl scout cookies and all (Hey they can dig into the free market too).

And while were at the idea of a totally capitalistic society... hey theres an idea... why not??? The hell with the homeless... Hungry, to bad, no welfare here anymore... Federal help with education **** that... your stuck at mcdonalds the rest of your life, cause colleges dont like fronting an education.

And again, why are we associating Fed with Broken down buildings? Bitch at your state.

Adams

:clap2: I don't quite understand the part about securing ammo, SAWs, etc...that was just a part of battle. What's RD saying? I don't want to wait for anybody to nuke me first. If they have the technology, we should take them out. As far as privatizing SS, I have thought about that for awhile. Our Federal Government has not done such a good job with that. But as far as our Military goes, we are the best. Anybody on this board that is from the United States and has not served in the Military should say only two words to the vets in our country. "THANK YOU". Our country might not be perfect, but it's the best damn country on this planet. And that goes for Canada, All of Europe, and everywhere else. And if you haven't "been there" yourself, don't tell me about your buddy or your uncle Bob, or anything else. You're outta your leagu!

 

[DAdams91982]

:clap2: I don't quite understand the part about securing ammo, SAWs, etc...that was just a part of battle. What's RD saying? I don't want to wait for anybody to nuke me first. If they have the technology, we should take them out. As far as privatizing SS, I have thought about that for awhile. Our Federal Government has not done such a good job with that. But as far as our Military goes, we are the best. Anybody on this board that is from the United States and has not served in the Military should say only two words to the vets in our country. "THANK YOU". Our country might not be perfect, but it's the best damn country on this planet. And that goes for Canada, All of Europe, and everywhere else. And if you haven't "been there" yourself, don't tell me about your buddy or your uncle Bob, or anything else. You're outta your leagu!

:goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost:

And I have no idea what was implied with the securing weapons.

Adams

 

[DougMan]

Wow... I cant believe you all have a price tag for your freedoms, and values. Maybe its only me, but Im glad that my family is back in the good old USA safe and sound. All because of the US Military.

Safety is one of the fundamental Individual needs.

Adams

Minor Correction... dont forget the US taxpayer and US intelligence services. US military alone doesnt solve much.

 

[DAdams91982]

Minor Correction... dont forget the US taxpayer and US intelligence services. US military alone doesnt solve much.

Okay... I see what your saying... But I have yet to see a taxpayer (Civilian), or Intell agent (Civilian) raise his/her right hand and commit to something so much that if required, would lay their life down for it.

Adams

 

[delta314]

Minor Correction... dont forget the US taxpayer and US intelligence services. US military alone doesnt solve much.

Major Correction...US Military solves much more than you think. We/They are the reason you can sit in front of your computer and write this. The IS is made up of 99% ex military personnel. There is a reason for that. And everyone in the military is also a taxpayer.

 

[DougMan]

I meant no disrespect... my phrasing was probably off. I was thinking in terms of what makes America what it is. A vastly superior military is just part of the equation IMO. But I know many people beg to differ.

 

[delta314]

I meant no disrespect... my phrasing was probably off. I was thinking in terms of what makes America what it is. A vastly superior military is just part of the equation IMO. But I know many people beg to differ.

Our core beliefs are what makes America what it is. We believe in God and Country and Freedom. Like the old cliche goes, if you're reading this, thank a teacher, if you're reading it in English, thank a US Soldier.:bow28:

 

[delta314]

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/general-chat/39349-what-vet.html

Check it out.

 

[DougMan]

Our core beliefs are what makes America what it is. We believe in God and Country and Freedom. Like the old cliche goes, if you're reading this, thank a teacher, if you're reading it in English, thank a US Soldier.:bow28:

:icon_lol: quite the oversimplification. but I guess that is why they are called cliches.

 

[delta314]

Simple but true.

 

[bosco]

I thought this thread was gonna be about marijuana, lol. Damn was i off

haha, not quite that shade of green :trout:

 

[bosco]

ok, but on a serious note-

being a history major, still new to it all- but from what i've understood about dominating civilizations is what was stated before- they overextend themselves into other countries and forget about what is important for the betterment of their own people. in the end, they start to crumble under the weight of heated struggle between themselves. take the roman empire for example, or even the germanic tribes that extended their rule after alexander of mesopotamia. they began fighting amongst themselves and leaving behind only destruction.

i am very thankful for the US military and all of it's efforts in protecting us. but i believe in creating more stability at home first- the cost of education is being overrun by the cost of warfare. instead, i as a student, am faced with coming out of school with already a debt to a bank somewhere and paying higher and higher taxes.

i'm pretty conservative in my political views, but i do sometimes think president bush is getting greedy with the whole iraq/afganistan conflict. he's forgetting us here at home imo.

as for iran's nuclear (everytime i hear that word, reminds me of the state of the union address and bush's pronunciation of the word.. silly silly man), i think it's a threat that needs to be stopped. but there are more popping up- just look at Palestine and Israel- we started that, and now we don't know what to do with it. it's just building up more and more- the pressure is just increasing.

i guess what i'm trying to say is that i think it'd be more beneficial to provide the proper funding for certain things in our country- but it's hard to battle the cost of education vs. preventing an all out destruction of our way of life.

 

[CDB]

Our core beliefs are what makes America what it is. We believe in God and Country and Freedom. Like the old cliche goes, if you're reading this, thank a teacher, if you're reading it in English, thank a US Soldier.:bow28:

I'll be the asshole here then. I am writing this in English because our culture and our economy are relatively more resilient than most any others, and I believe superioir in many ways. There hasn't been a credible threat to the freedom of Americans for a long, long time. Soldiers deserve thanks for their willingness to volunteer to protect this nation. They deserve a lot for that. But more often than not they are the poorly used tools of idiotic politicians with moronic ideas about foreign policy. Not every single action taken by a soldier is magically protecting US citizens' freedom, and I honestly find the idea that they should be thanked profusely at every turn a little ridiculous. Thank you for suspending judgement and allowing some ignoramous in DC to send you over seas to make the US more enemies? Thank you for allowing yourself to be used as a meddling agent in foreign countries, a great many of which would not hate us if we would just stay the **** out of their business?

The balls and discipline that our military has doesn't automatically translate into everything they do deserving thanks. The most direct threat to my freedom is my own government. When our military aims their rifles at the Capital Building and the Whitehouse, they'll get my thanks. I'll get my shotgun and be there with them. Until then my thanks will have to be tempered with a little doubt as to their sanity at allowing themselves to be used so poorly by such scum as in DC. Thanks is predicated on doing the right thing. If you disagree with how the military is being used, thanks are out of place.

 

[DAdams91982]

I'll be the asshole here then. I am writing this in English because our culture and our economy are relatively more resilient than most any others, and I believe superioir in many ways. There hasn't been a credible threat to the freedom of Americans for a long, long time. Soldiers deserve thanks for their willingness to volunteer to protect this nation. They deserve a lot for that. But more often than not they are the poorly used tools of idiotic politicians with moronic ideas about foreign policy. Not every single action taken by a soldier is magically protecting US citizens' freedom, and I honestly find the idea that they should be thanked profusely at every turn a little ridiculous. Thank you for suspending judgement and allowing some ignoramous in DC to send you over seas to make the US more enemies? Thank you for allowing yourself to be used as a meddling agent in foreign countries, a great many of which would not hate us if we would just stay the **** out of their business?

The balls and discipline that our military has doesn't automatically translate into everything they do deserving thanks. The most direct threat to my freedom is my own government. When our military aims their rifles at the Capital Building and the Whitehouse, they'll get my thanks. I'll get my shotgun and be there with them. Until then my thanks will have to be tempered with a little doubt as to their sanity at allowing themselves to be used so poorly by such scum as in DC. Thanks is predicated on doing the right thing. If you disagree with how the military is being used, thanks are out of place.

Damn... I dont like bringing this to the conversation when a debate over this issue is going on, but I cant help it this time. If you are so unhappy with our military, government, etc etc etc, then why are you in the US? What does it have to offer you that somewhere else doesnt?

You do not give the military enough credit. Freedoms from the UK??? Naw... Spanish American War... naw just give em what they want. Hell we didnt need hawaii anyways... so japan get that at the beginning of WW2. Unless your implying that the citizen would have picked up their shovels and pitch forks, and protected what was ours. Yes???

So next time you see that young Soilder/Marine/Airman/Sailor, you just go ahead, and let him/her know that what they are doing is wrong. And you know what will happen? They will respect your reason for saying that. Cause that is what we do. Protect the Constitution.

The Profession of Arms will always be needed. Take up that shot gun toward the capital... there is going to be a young lance corpral no more than 19 years old right behind you with a M4 right in the back of your head. Because Integrity and Loyalty is what makes a troop a troop.

Adams

 

[delta314]

I'll be the asshole here then. I am writing this in English because our culture and our economy are relatively more resilient than most any others, and I believe superioir in many ways. There hasn't been a credible threat to the freedom of Americans for a long, long time. Soldiers deserve thanks for their willingness to volunteer to protect this nation. They deserve a lot for that. But more often than not they are the poorly used tools of idiotic politicians with moronic ideas about foreign policy. Not every single action taken by a soldier is magically protecting US citizens' freedom, and I honestly find the idea that they should be thanked profusely at every turn a little ridiculous. Thank you for suspending judgement and allowing some ignoramous in DC to send you over seas to make the US more enemies? Thank you for allowing yourself to be used as a meddling agent in foreign countries, a great many of which would not hate us if we would just stay the **** out of their business?

The balls and discipline that our military has doesn't automatically translate into everything they do deserving thanks. The most direct threat to my freedom is my own government. When our military aims their rifles at the Capital Building and the Whitehouse, they'll get my thanks. I'll get my shotgun and be there with them. Until then my thanks will have to be tempered with a little doubt as to their sanity at allowing themselves to be used so poorly by such scum as in DC. Thanks is predicated on doing the right thing. If you disagree with how the military is being used, thanks are out of place.

Evidently the majority of the citizens of the United Stated do not agree with you. We have elections and the "scumbags" in the White house and the Capital were all voted for by the majority. I vote in every election I can. The politician I vote for doesn't always win, but I don't feel like my government is out to get me...(Unless Hilary wins the Presidency...) As a soldier, you do not question orders that are given to you. You do what you are told. It will save your life. I don't understand how your freedom is in threat by our government. What are you doing that you feel this way? If you were in one of those countries that "hate" us, after writing what you have written, you would get a visit by your "government" tonight and be whisked away and never heard from again.

 

[wildman536]

We troops have PLENTY of body armour... your views impressed by the media are very much skewed. Why do you think not more money has been put into newer armored HUMVEEs, or other protection of the sort? and really this is two fold. It is because we are the dominating force in this war, it isnt needed, there isnt anything insurgents have, that can stand up to us at all... coupled on top of the bitching and moaning about the "National Debt." So I say kudo's, our military always could be stronger. Just because the cold war is over doesnt mean a damn thing. The Proactive attitude of President Bush is exactly what we needed. Instead of becoming complacent, and allowing us to be attacked on our own soil again, something is being done. Which is why we SHOULD "meddle" in other affairs. Let Iran obtain nukes?? **** THAT, wipe em up before its a problem. Let Saddam gas more, and gain more power, and more artillary??? Again.. **** THAT. Being who we are, we should be the world police... it comes with the territory of being the world superpower.
.

i hate to get into this (i stay away from political arguments on forums) but i do have to say that i have PERSONALLY seen the effect on the soldiers that have faulty or no equipment (body armor humvees etc) so id have to agree that what the media is saying is not totally BS you tell me that it is when your in the operating room cutting shrapnel outta a soldiers legs and arms and torso and not just one soldier, or when a soldier is getting fitted for his new leg because his hummer diddnt have a good enough protective interior to keep it from coming through the bottom of it, if you want more examples trust me i can name a TON. bottom line if you have ever delt with the iraqi people youd get a better understaning of why saddam is the way he is. There were no, wait a second NO weapons of mass destruction found, and still we want to "transform" iraq?? explain that? i think that the world police thing is true we should not go out and try and Create another country when ours is SUFFERING. trust me our forces are streched thin (look at recruitment and the amount of soldiers getting out) and getting tired of this. And if you think that we are part of the worlds "Top Superpowers" think again.

PS- there is no doubt in my mind that iran could get nuclear capabilities with or without the US saying yea or nay.

HOOAH!!

 

[wildman536]

I'll be the asshole here then. I am writing this in English because our culture and our economy are relatively more resilient than most any others, and I believe superioir in many ways. There hasn't been a credible threat to the freedom of Americans for a long, long time. Soldiers deserve thanks for their willingness to volunteer to protect this nation. They deserve a lot for that. But more often than not they are the poorly used tools of idiotic politicians with moronic ideas about foreign policy. Not every single action taken by a soldier is magically protecting US citizens' freedom, and I honestly find the idea that they should be thanked profusely at every turn a little ridiculous. Thank you for suspending judgement and allowing some ignoramous in DC to send you over seas to make the US more enemies? Thank you for allowing yourself to be used as a meddling agent in foreign countries, a great many of which would not hate us if we would just stay the **** out of their business?

The balls and discipline that our military has doesn't automatically translate into everything they do deserving thanks. The most direct threat to my freedom is my own government. When our military aims their rifles at the Capital Building and the Whitehouse, they'll get my thanks. I'll get my shotgun and be there with them. Until then my thanks will have to be tempered with a little doubt as to their sanity at allowing themselves to be used so poorly by such scum as in DC. Thanks is predicated on doing the right thing. If you disagree with how the military is being used, thanks are out of place.

i think that youd have to look at the Orders that the military is given. Its not the soldier that is making the decision to do these things its the powers that be telling him or her how and when to execute. Some serve because they still believe in the nation and hold true the orders that are given and will follow with a giving heart, others do it because there only motivation to do so in through consequence. but please do not blame the people (soldiers) that are just simply carring out there orders (its there job just like if you had to fire somebody) you hate to do it but you have to feed your family.

 

[delta314]

i hate to get into this (i stay away from political arguments on forums) but i do have to say that i have PERSONALLY seen the effect on the soldiers that have faulty or no equipment (body armor humvees etc) so id have to agree that what the media is saying is not totally BS you tell me that it is when your in the operating room cutting shrapnel outta a soldiers legs and arms and torso and not just one soldier, or when a soldier is getting fitted for his new leg because his hummer diddnt have a good enough protective interior to keep it from coming through the bottom of it, if you want more examples trust me i can name a TON. bottom line if you have ever delt with the iraqi people youd get a better understaning of why saddam is the way he is. There were no, wait a second NO weapons of mass destruction found, and still we want to "transform" iraq?? explain that? i think that the world police thing is true we should not go out and try and Create another country when ours is SUFFERING. trust me our forces are streched thin (look at recruitment and the amount of soldiers getting out) and getting tired of this. And if you think that we are part of the worlds "Top Superpowers" think again.

PS- there is no doubt in my mind that iran could get nuclear capabilities with or without the US saying yea or nay.

HOOAH!!

You cannot expect to fight a war without casualties. The US has the best equipment, bar none. And we are a "top Superpower", regardless of your view. You are not the only one that has seen the ravages of war. If you don't like the way our country is being run, vote for someone else. It's the American way. If you are the majority, then your candidate will win, and we will see if he/she can do it better.

 

[delta314]

i think that youd have to look at the Orders that the military is given. Its not the soldier that is making the decision to do these things its the powers that be telling him or her how and when to execute. Some serve because they still believe in the nation and hold true the orders that are given and will follow with a giving heart, others do it because there only motivation to do so in through consequence. but please do not blame the people (soldiers) that are just simply carring out there orders (its there job just like if you had to fire somebody) you hate to do it but you have to feed your family.

I agree with you on this.:clap2:

 

[Grunt76]

You cannot expect to fight a war without casualties. The US has the best equipment, bar none. And we are a "top Superpower", regardless of your view. You are not the only one that has seen the ravages of war. If you don't like the way our country is being run, vote for someone else. It's the American way. If you are the majority, then your candidate will win, and we will see if he/she can do it better.

It would be interesting to know if the media might have stakes in the way the country is run. Because their power is second to none. The way information is presented makes up the majority's "opinions". So you have the media on one hand that serves you the information and on the other you have "freedom of choice". How many journalists are totally frustrated at how facts are more often than not distorted completely by the editors?

The media is the true power in this country. Feed joe average this info and he'll vote A, feed him something else and he votes for B. C'mon, you know this. So IMO the so-called will of the people is BS, since the people are blidfolded and led by the media into all kinds of beliefs. How many people still believe there MIGHT be weapons of mass destruction in Iraq because the White House said so on Teeeevee? How many people believed it was utterly impossible that Vioxx might be bad for you, as after all the pharma companies are watched over... Until PROOF was given. How many proofs are NOT given, I ask?

 

[DAdams91982]

You cannot expect to fight a war without casualties. The US has the best equipment, bar none. And we are a "top Superpower", regardless of your view. You are not the only one that has seen the ravages of war. If you don't like the way our country is being run, vote for someone else. It's the American way. If you are the majority, then your candidate will win, and we will see if he/she can do it better.

THank you... Im tired of Hearsay. I have first hand knowledge of all this. I was there for the strike on fallujah, najaf... yadda yadda yadda. Anyway... our equipment is top notch... how the person uses it is their deal. No matter what we get, we will never be 100% protected from a bullet, or Explosive device. I make it a point to visit the hospital of soilders with war injuries, and 99% will tell you that they will go right back out there if uncle sam asked them too.

Adams

 

[anabolicrhino]

ok, but on a serious note-

being a history major, still new to it all- but from what i've understood about dominating civilizations is what was stated before- they overextend themselves into other countries and forget about what is important for the betterment of their own people. in the end, they start to crumble under the weight of heated struggle between themselves. take the roman empire for example, or even the germanic tribes that extended their rule after alexander of mesopotamia. they began fighting amongst themselves and leaving behind only destruction.

i am very thankful for the US military and all of it's efforts in protecting us. but i believe in creating more stability at home first- the cost of education is being overrun by the cost of warfare. instead, i as a student, am faced with coming out of school with already a debt to a bank somewhere and paying higher and higher taxes.

i'm pretty conservative in my political views, but i do sometimes think president bush is getting greedy with the whole iraq/afganistan conflict. he's forgetting us here at home imo.

as for iran's nuclear (everytime i hear that word, reminds me of the state of the union address and bush's pronunciation of the word.. silly silly man), i think it's a threat that needs to be stopped. but there are more popping up- just look at Palestine and Israel- we started that, and now we don't know what to do with it. it's just building up more and more- the pressure is just increasing.

i guess what i'm trying to say is that i think it'd be more beneficial to provide the proper funding for certain things in our country- but it's hard to battle the cost of education vs. preventing an all out destruction of our way of life.

The current U.S. EMPIRE is vastly superior to both the Roman and Ottoman counterparts. The US has the benifit of historically unprecidented global intelligence. The American supply of resources for miltary ventures is disproportionately superior to any and all challengers. The US has no military peers. The only concerns are that the military needs a constant supply young men who are willing to enlist their lives for broadly defined tours of duty. Atleast until the development of military robots. This giant industrtial machine needs to be fed by oil. The oil supply must be maintained or life as we know it in the US will change dramatically. This supply can be maintained by liberating it from other totalitarian regimes. This will be the current plan until an adequate substitute can be developed without disturbing the current balance of power. Ofcourse there will always be terroristic challenges to the basic structure of the Empire, but short of nuclear annilation, the US is here to stay as ruler of the world, so get used to it! The failings of the Roman empire were due to rapid expansion and lack of proper intelligence. This compounded by internal corruption of the ruling elite led to alienation within the empire and ultimately its demise. The US may have some leadership issues but not nearly enough to disrupt the ultimate goal of securing the planet for exploitaion. The US military is united with the global market infrastructure to insure that the system stays intact. The resistance of the terrorists and protestors is relatively minor in terms of day to day operations...plus I personally love the percs..as I turn on my giant screen HD television to watch the SuperBowl..It is good to be on the winning side!

 

[wildman536]

I make it a point to visit the hospital of soilders with war injuries, and 99% will tell you that they will go right back out there if uncle sam asked them too.

Adams

I work everyday at a hospital that takes care of these soldiers with war injuries and preform surgeries on them, trust me the majority is not in favor of going back for any reason, theyd prefer to hold there newborn baby that was born while they were out fighting a war and now will never get a chance to hold because there arms are gone etc. I dont know which hospitals you are visiting but the ones ive worked at the soldiers have a different opinion.

 

[wildman536]

The only concerns are that the military needs a constant supply young men who are willing to enlist their lives for broadly defined tours of duty. This giant industrtial machine needs to be fed by oil

yep and if you ask me this plays into the reasons i WILL NOT reenlist this summer, ive seen this for too long,

YOUR TURN!! (and if youve already done it then im sorry for saying that)

 

[CDB]

Damn... I dont like bringing this to the conversation when a debate over this issue is going on, but I cant help it this time. If you are so unhappy with our military, government, etc etc etc, then why are you in the US? What does it have to offer you that somewhere else doesnt?

Since the early origins of the state its rules have always turned as a necessary bolster to their rule to an alliance with society's class of intellectuals. The masses do not create their own abstract ideas or think through these ideas independently. They follow passively the ideas adopted and promulgated by the body of intellectuals who become the effective opinion molders in society. And since it is precisely a molding of opinion on behalf of the rules that the state almost desperately needs, this forms the basis for the age old alliance of the intellectuals and the ruling classes of the state. The alliance is based on a quid pro quo. On the one hand the intellectuals spread among the masses the idea that the state and its rulers are wise, good, sometimes divine, and at the very least inevitable and better than any conceivable alternatives. In return for this ponopoly of ideology, the state incorporates the intellectuals as part of the ruling elite, granting them power, status, prestige and material security. Furthermore intellectuals are needed to staff the buearacracy and "plan the economy."

That our country and government is better than all others does not mean there can be no conceivable improvement. The valedictorian in summer school is still an idiot. Love it or leave it perhaps? I love my country, up until 9/11 I was one of few in this neighborhood who flew a flag. Take any implication that I don't love this country and sit on it and spin, I hate its government and the two are not one in the same, and more often than not are in opposition. Question my patriotism? I helped build a fucking monument to Vietnam vets, I sat there with my father as he cried at the miniature version of The Wall that was brought around here. I saw my cousin off to the first Iraq war and saw his wife cry her fucking eyes out. My father was a fucking ranger and I know the value of our military and I love my country more than you will ever know, which is exactly why I didn't join the military even though my father wanted me to, because I don't believe they are being used correctly and I will not waste my efforts or die for something I don't believe in, our government, which is more often than not working to destroy something I do love and believe in, my country.

And what is your reasoning anyway? The military protected my right to have a dissenting opinion that I should never vocalize? Brilliant.

You do not give the military enough credit. Freedoms from the UK??? Naw... Spanish American War... naw just give em what they want. Hell we didnt need hawaii anyways... so japan get that at the beginning of WW2. Unless your implying that the citizen would have picked up their shovels and pitch forks, and protected what was ours. Yes???

Why do you think Japan attacked us genius? Perhaps I should revise my earlier statement: There hasn't been a genuine threat to American's rights in a long, long time that wasn't manufactured out of our own government's idiotic foreign policy. Enemies our government uses the military to create don't count, they shouldn't have been there to begin with.

So next time you see that young Soilder/Marine/Airman/Sailor, you just go ahead, and let him/her know that what they are doing is wrong. And you know what will happen? They will respect your reason for saying that. Cause that is what we do. Protect the Constitution.

Reread: what our government is sending them to do is more often than not, wrong. There's a distinction between the two. I've always been hesitant to post this opinion because 1) I don't want to offend some good people on here, and I knew, 2) that a good number of people for some reason can't differentiate between hating the way the government uses the troops and hating the troops themselves, and 3) that people can't seem to grasp that the actions of troops do not always serve to protect America. Suppose the brother of one of those 30,000 dead Iraqis flies a plane into a building taking out several of my family and/or friends. Should I find the soldier, pilot or who ever who killed that Iraqi's brother and thank him for it? Maybe I should offer thanks to the morons in DC who okayed the operation that killed the Iraqi's brother?

The Profession of Arms will always be needed. Take up that shot gun toward the capital... there is going to be a young lance corpral no more than 19 years old right behind you with a M4 right in the back of your head. Because Integrity and Loyalty is what makes a troop a troop.

Or a mindless devotion to serving a brutal empire in the view of some. I'm somewhere in the middle myself, because I realize the orders come from th civilians, but the troops follow the orders willingly. I'm just sick of this idea circulating, more often than not used to suppress debate, that some how whenever a soldier takes a **** he's some how protecting my freedom. The only reason I don't give the troops a pass and blame DC entirely is because I don't think putting on a uniform robs you of your ability to think or make moral and ethical judgements. I have the same problem with cops. I respect them greatly but also can't stand well over 90% of the laws they enforce. And they know so many of those laws are BS, but they keep doing it anyway. Just following orders. Every fallen empire and every brutal atrocity in this world was caused by people who were just following orders without thinking about whether those orders were right or wrong. And I'm not going to thank someone for doing something I didn't want them to do that is arguably going to make me worse off than before. To do so would be idiocy.

 

[CDB]

Damn... I dont like bringing this to the conversation when a debate over this issue is going on, but I cant help it this time. If you are so unhappy with our military, government, etc etc etc, then why are you in the US? What does it have to offer you that somewhere else doesnt?

Since the early origins of the state its rules have always turned as a necessary bolster to their rule to an alliance with society's class of intellectuals. The masses do not create their own abstract ideas or think through these ideas independently. They follow passively the ideas adopted and promulgated by the body of intellectuals who become the effective opinion molders in society. And since it is precisely a molding of opinion on behalf of the rules that the state almost desperately needs, this forms the basis for the age old alliance of the intellectuals and the ruling classes of the state. The alliance is based on a quid pro quo. On the one hand the intellectuals spread among the masses the idea that the state and its rulers are wise, good, sometimes divine, and at the very least inevitable and better than any conceivable alternatives. In return for this ponopoly of ideology, the state incorporates the intellectuals as part of the ruling elite, granting them power, status, prestige and material security. Furthermore intellectuals are needed to staff the buearacracy and "plan the economy."

That our country and government is better than all others does not mean there can be no conceivable improvement. The valedictorian in summer school is still an idiot. Love it or leave it perhaps? I love my country, up until 9/11 I was one of few in this neighborhood who flew a flag. Take any implication that I don't love this country and sit on it and spin, I hate its government and the two are not one in the same, and more often than not are in opposition. Question my patriotism? I helped build a fucking monument to Vietnam vets, I sat there with my father as he cried at the miniature version of The Wall that was brought around here. I saw my cousin off to the first Iraq war and saw his wife cry her fucking eyes out. My father was a fucking ranger and I know the value of our military and I love my country more than you will ever know, which is exactly why I didn't join the military even though my father wanted me to, because I don't believe they are being used correctly and I will not waste my efforts or die for something I don't believe in, our government, which is more often than not working to destroy something I do love and believe in, my country.

And what is your reasoning anyway? The military protected my right to have a dissenting opinion that I should never vocalize? Brilliant.

You do not give the military enough credit. Freedoms from the UK??? Naw... Spanish American War... naw just give em what they want. Hell we didnt need hawaii anyways... so japan get that at the beginning of WW2. Unless your implying that the citizen would have picked up their shovels and pitch forks, and protected what was ours. Yes???

Why do you think Japan attacked us genius? Perhaps I should revise my earlier statement: There hasn't been a genuine threat to American's rights in a long, long time that wasn't manufactured out of our own government's idiotic foreign policy. Enemies our government uses the military to create don't count, they shouldn't have been there to begin with.

So next time you see that young Soilder/Marine/Airman/Sailor, you just go ahead, and let him/her know that what they are doing is wrong. And you know what will happen? They will respect your reason for saying that. Cause that is what we do. Protect the Constitution.

Reread: what our government is sending them to do is more often than not, wrong. There's a distinction between the two. I've always been hesitant to post this opinion because 1) I don't want to offend some good people on here, and I knew, 2) that a good number of people for some reason can't differentiate between hating the way the government uses the troops and hating the troops themselves, and 3) that people can't seem to grasp that the actions of troops do not always serve to protect America. Suppose the brother of one of those 30,000 dead Iraqis flies a plane into a building taking out several of my family and/or friends. Should I find the soldier, pilot or who ever who killed that Iraqi's brother and thank him for it? Maybe I should offer thanks to the morons in DC who okayed the operation that killed the Iraqi's brother?

The Profession of Arms will always be needed. Take up that shot gun toward the capital... there is going to be a young lance corpral no more than 19 years old right behind you with a M4 right in the back of your head. Because Integrity and Loyalty is what makes a troop a troop.

Or a mindless devotion to serving a brutal empire in the view of some. I'm somewhere in the middle myself, because I realize the orders come from th civilians, but the troops follow the orders willingly. I'm just sick of this idea circulating, more often than not used to suppress debate, that some how whenever a soldier takes a **** he's some how protecting my freedom. The only reason I don't give the troops a pass and blame DC entirely is because I don't think putting on a uniform robs you of your ability to think or make moral and ethical judgements. I have the same problem with cops. I respect them greatly but also can't stand well over 90% of the laws they enforce. And they know so many of those laws are BS, but they keep doing it anyway. Just following orders. Every fallen empire and every brutal atrocity in this world was caused by people who were just following orders without thinking about whether those orders were right or wrong. And I'm not going to thank someone for doing something I didn't want them to do that is arguably going to make me worse off than before. To do so would be idiocy.