The 2012 bug is catching on!
- 08-10-2010, 04:51 PM
completely agree with you on the interest of the Book of Rev. I agree that living during the time of Nero must have been hell on earth for the Christians of that day and age. In fact most believe that is where the number 666 came from is that is the numeric value of Nero written out in the Greek form. Coincidence??? I think not. I do respect your way of looking at it though. It would be hard to reconcile having a God who already knows the future. Never the less, I believe it gets much deeper than this. Not to make the discussion too deep, I will just use one short example. If you hold your pen in your hand, which I am sure is red , what do you think will happen when you release the pen above your desk? It will, in fact, fall and hit your desk correct? You can predict that outcome, not because you can alter the laws of physics and change the path that the pen will travel, but because you understood the laws that were at work, and based upon those laws you were able to draw your conclusion of the future.
That being said I believe that the same goes with God. He does not simply dictate the course of the future and thus agency for man is taken away. Rather he understands the laws set in motion, and knows the human condition better than any of us could. Thus, he makes that same prediction to how (for lack of a better term) the "end" will come...Working on living
- 08-10-2010, 04:56 PM
I like the red reference
That is an interesting way to look at it. However the law of gravity seems a bit more simplistic imo that several thousands of years of events that must transpire in a particular fashion to lead to a particular end. Maybe to a supreme being it is that simple, however, imo to the minds of us silly little humans, that is a lot to comprehend. To me, it nullifies free will entirely, however, I do love to study revelations. Such an artistic picture painted about horrific events that I hope are no where near our lifetime or that of our children.
With regards to Nero, the more I study him, the more I wish that the senate had gotten their wish and been able to beat him to death. What a horrible human being. Killing your own mother, who had killed to put you in power in the first place. Its funny how he even has a lasting impact on the Rome and its ruins to this day. Hell the Colesseum is named for him.
I had seen the 666 reference and I agree with you 100%, he is the reference, not some "beast". It would most certainly be a reference to a contemporary event/person
08-10-2010, 05:04 PM
Again this is what makes Rev so interesting... did he mean his day, ours, both???? I tend to lean towards the later... both
Working on living
08-10-2010, 05:06 PM
08-10-2010, 05:11 PM
AG.. great points made. In an earlier post to DR. D, I said the final war was necessary for God's will. You make a great point that it is us humans that bring on that final war and God is a participant, not the orchestrator.
This is what I find weird tho AG... How does the book of Revelations end? The devil is locked into the abyss for a thousand years...... What happened to hell being eternal? Why did heaven come down to Earth? Heaven was supposed to be a place different then Earth. I thought the Bible mentioned the Earth will waste away, not be made anew....
Revelations doesn't match up with the rest of the Bible. It is unique in it's own work and like you said, maybe written for it's time... which I agree with.
08-10-2010, 05:18 PM
He comes after the Wooo's are finished and save the Children of Israel (also stated in Ezekiel) this is also where the mountain parts
Devil banished for 1000 years (how come only 1000 years) I love a few of the words in the Greek here, which is the language it was in originally. That the Devil will be infact banished in the hearts of men, not literally. They have their Savior ruling over them, and thus Satan has no hold and is thus "bound" for 1000 years.
How does he come back??? again it is men. They let him back into their hearts and thus give him the power he needs to bring the "Great" destruction John saw.
Battle of Gog and Magog
Savior saves his people one last time and thus Satan is this time "figuratively AND literally speaking" banned forever
Paradise on earth...
did this off memory with no references, so please forgive that.
Working on living
08-10-2010, 06:30 PM
08-10-2010, 07:40 PM
08-10-2010, 07:52 PM
But if they are enough to make a respectable person here on AM withdraw from discussion I probably should have just stayed out of all of this.
Thank you guys for the daily discussion especially DR. D. I really did enjoy it. I withdraw myself also.
08-10-2010, 11:00 PM
It's me, not you. You're fine.
Life is a terminal condition.
She thinks that happiness is a mat that sits on her doorway.
08-11-2010, 02:00 PM
Dunn, thank you. I'm sorry if I upset you in any way, it was not my intention.
I grew up immersed in the Bible every single day as a child. It matures your heart, mind, and soul do dive deeper into the mystery. It has captivated human beings for 2000 years. Those words, the word of God, are truly magical if not for those reasons and they hold a special place within us all. I don't want to come off as anti-bible, for if you want to truly grow as a person, and set on a true, personal, and intimate quest for God... the Bible is the stepping stone for the journey, and might just be the final destination also. Everyone finds solace in those words. They are alluring and always bring you back.
"By faith we understand that the worlds were prepared by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made of things which are visible" Hebrews
I think there is more Science in the bible than we think^
So about 2012... LOL
08-11-2010, 02:33 PM
Working on living
08-11-2010, 03:02 PM
08-12-2010, 12:04 PM
08-12-2010, 12:25 PM
Good question... examples would be...
Water to wine
Healing of the blind
Tree being cut down to heal the water...
IMHO I believe that there is science involved in all of it. If thus doesn't make sense I can explain further
08-12-2010, 02:06 PM
Its funny you bring those up, as there is a lot of science to support the 10 plagues (although the Exodus is utter nonsense IMO). All of the plagues (minus #10) were historical events in Egypt that transpired regularly. Number 10 has an explanation, with specific reference to a mold that grew and the eldest son being fed the most. All quite interesting.
I was just reading something about Ancient Egypt and specifically their god Horus as well as Greece and Dionysus. Did you know that Horus healed the blind and Dionysus turned water to wine? This is of course according to Egyptian and Greek legends.
08-12-2010, 02:24 PM
Yes I have studied the plagues ideas and find them extremely interesting and fun to go through.
There are many traditions out there for various individuals doing numerous different things. There are probably grains of truth to many of them. I wish I could type more of a reply to this my friend, but alas I am on my Droid with fat army thumbs in a boring please kill me meeting. Great stuff to intrigue the mind though...
08-12-2010, 04:13 PM
08-12-2010, 04:27 PM
08-12-2010, 04:56 PM
I'm not aware of any other religious leader that even claimed he could do this, much less say that he would resurrect himself in a specific time-frame and then actually do it. People say that all religions are the same, and Christ seems no greater than any other religious icon, but to me this is what really separates Christ from the rest. I mean, who else has stated that they hold the keys of life and death?! Jesus Christ.
08-12-2010, 05:28 PM
08-12-2010, 05:29 PM
Much of the Jesus story originates here
Also, just do a search on origins of the Jesus story it is quite eye opening
In terms of the ressurecton, there is an interesting take on it in the Qu'ran.
08-12-2010, 05:33 PM
08-12-2010, 05:41 PM
Jesus did hate religion- he corrected the Jewish teachers so much calling them on their lies and posing-
I am not into religion- I am into Jesus- thats it for me- I dont go to Church- why? I dont like constrainments upon me- I read my Bible and have my own personal relationship with God- if I have questions i go to several trusted fellow Christians and discuss it with them
this is THE Great Debate- it will never end period- it is also impossible to prove Gods existence- it is also impossible to disprove Gods existence
More and more scientist are pointing to the idea of a creative intellegence behind the universe saying- this is the only way- they are not saying God or Jesus- just that there is something out there-- in the end I want to love others as My God has loved me- unconditionally without any exceptions and whole heartedly
Final words- True Christianity is not about ritual- its simply about Love
08-12-2010, 05:42 PM
08-12-2010, 05:43 PM
08-12-2010, 05:43 PM
i may not be though i havent researched it extensivly either
08-12-2010, 05:44 PM
08-12-2010, 05:49 PM
Offer me something better then eternal life and I'll hear you out otherwise all that science has proved is that we are destined to the grave. Live for something... or die for nothing. Can't take your riches to the grave with you, neither will you be able to look back at what you've achieved in the this world when your dead. Simple choice Dr. D?
ôLord, whom shall we go away to? You have sayings of everlasting life"- John 6:68
WHAT has science offered?
08-12-2010, 06:17 PM
I have done a little smidgeon of research on the parallel between Christ and others born of virgins- this is what I myself have come up with
A. There are SOME similarities- but they are very generalized
B. Predictions about Christ where made 600 years before He was born- He fulfilled every single one- the messianic prophecies are what these are
C. There are external refernces to Jesus Christ in History- even the Koran mentions Him
D. On the resurection- people said someone came and stole Christs body
Not possible here is why
A.HUGE Boulder blocked the way into his tomb
B. The most elite warriors (the romans) where charged with gaurding his tomb
c.They would have without a doubt noticed that someone was moving a boulder aside
So its simply this- there (in my mind) are three possiblities for who Jesus Christ is
A.- A mad man
B. A liar
C. The Son of God
my .02 here gents!
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