The 2012 bug is catching on!

Page 5 of 18 First ... 34567 ... Last

  1. Quote Originally Posted by SELFofGOD View Post
    well conversations like this one allways end up the same way. Fun for a lil while but in the end Blind Faith is just that, Blind.


    I do not require a higher powers help to be a moral person in life or to appreciate every second I have to live and love my friends & family.

    I might meet your god someday, but untill then I am content being a Human "Being".

    cya guys 2morrow its like 1230am afgh time lol
    well said my friend
    Mr. Supps Board Rep


  2. Quote Originally Posted by AE14 View Post
    the flood story is an interesting one as all cultures have it in their story lines.
    Exactly. Perhaps there is something to it, no? As are the accounts of giants, and how 'the gods' produced them with the daughters of men (necessarily distinguishing themselves from human men).

    Quote Originally Posted by AE14 View Post
    I think using Satan is a tad of a copout IMO. That basically discredits all other bliefs that can predate christianity by thousands of years. ...
    Ohhhh yeah, I can hear it now... "the devil made me do it!" LOL

    It's quite an easy cop-out alright, but that does not mean that he doesn't exist. Indeed, it just means that people misapply his existence to cast off their own personal responsibilities! For example, my kid may tell me that the dog ate his homework. Now 9 times outta 10 the dog is innocent, lol, but that in no way nullifies the reality that I do in fact have a dog, he does truly exist. So you say, 'yeah, you see your dog sitting in the backyard, so you can directly confirm his existence.' Exactly right. So I dare say that the main reason you doubt now, is just because you have not yet personally perceived this spiritual reality, not because it isn't there. An atheist is simply a future believer who hasn't yet observed this truth. That's why I say, don't be so quick to form a conclusion just yet. Be an agnostic if you don't know better.
    •   
       


  3. Quote Originally Posted by DR.D View Post
    Exactly. Perhaps there is something to it, no? As are the accounts of giants, and how 'the gods' produced them with the daughters of men (necessarily distinguishing themselves from human men).
    I would love to see the remains of these creatures found


    Quote Originally Posted by DR.D View Post
    Ohhhh yeah, I can hear it now... "the devil made me do it!" LOL

    It's quite an easy cop-out alright, but that does not mean that he doesn't exist. Indeed, it just means that people misapply his existence to cast off their own personal responsibilities! For example, my kid may tell me that the dog ate his homework. Now 9 times outta 10 the dog is innocent, lol, but that in no way nullifies the reality that I do in fact have a dog, he does truly exist. So you say, 'yeah, you see your dog sitting in the backyard, so you can directly confirm his existence.' Exactly right. So I dare say that the main reason you doubt now, is just because you have not yet personally perceived this spiritual reality, not because it isn't there. An atheist is simply a future believer who hasn't yet observed this truth. That's why I say, don't be so quick to form a conclusion just yet. Be an agnostic if you don't know better.
    I understand totally what you are saying. However, we must work with probability not possibility. As David Hume said "anything is possible, but you would be a fool to believe it"

    I will say, that we can turn around your thoughts, that the theist is just an atheist that hasnt found the truth yet
    Mr. Supps Board Rep

  4. Quote Originally Posted by AE14 View Post

    actually there are several. Many of which canbe found in very old copies of the NT showing that they were originally included.
      1. book of Enoch
      2. Infancy Gospel of Jesus
      3. Gospel of Mary
      4. Gospel of Thomas
      5. Gospel of Judas (still much to be determined on this one)

    these are just a couple

    touche

    What I'm trying to figure out from your stand point is what does any of this mean to you? Have you ever once thought that the book contains what it needs to? If you have indeed read it you would know it does. I believe you have come upon a lot of propaganda that doesn't even disprove anything. It only distracts one from knowing the Truth and you've never questioned your sources? It sure sounds like they are clumped together. The blind leading the blind.

    Matt 15:14,14 "Every plant which my heavenly Father planted not, shall be rooted up. Let them alone: they are blind guides. And if the blind guide the blind, both shall fall into a pit."

    Proverbs 14:15 "Anyone inexperienced puts faith in every word, but the shrewd one considers his steps."
    “Lord, whom shall we go away to? You have sayings of everlasting life"- John 6:68

  5. Quote Originally Posted by Flaw View Post
    What I'm trying to figure out from your stand point is what does any of this mean to you? Have you ever once thought that the book contains what it needs to? If you have indeed read it you would know it does. I believe you have come upon a lot of propaganda that doesn't even disprove anything. It only distracts one from knowing the Truth and you've never questioned your sources? It sure sounds like they are clumped together. The blind leading the blind.

    Matt 15:14,14 "Every plant which my heavenly Father planted not, shall be rooted up. Let them alone: they are blind guides. And if the blind guide the blind, both shall fall into a pit."

    Proverbs 14:15 "Anyone inexperienced puts faith in every word, but the shrewd one considers his steps."
    I have read both the NT and OT, and my stand point is that both books are full of borrowed information and tradition which IMO really lessen their truth. It is completely logical that the men who created the texts at the time would take whatever they could from existing traditions to appease the masses, however, that shows that the books are not literal IMO.

    I also think both books were most certainly written by men, which just goes to show how flawed and corrupt they are.

    BTW, my commentary says nothing about god......it is about man created religion, which to me is a true problem for society
    Mr. Supps Board Rep
    •   
       


  6. Quote Originally Posted by AE14 View Post

    I also think both books were most certainly written by men, which just goes to show how flawed and corrupt they are.

    BTW, my commentary says nothing about god......it is about man created religion, which to me is a true problem for society
    Most definetely the words were written by man but the message God wanted the people to know remains. I don't think this came about by chance.

    We certainly agree on one thing. Religion is corrupt. I don't think that's a secret at all. Everyone can see it. Men have used religion for political gain for centuries. I believe as you that religion was created to control people. But as Dr. D said Religion and God are 2 different things. Jesus clearly talked about warned of these men using religion.

    Matthew 7:15- "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves."

    Matthew 7:21-23 21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one whod oes the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?' And then will I declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness."

    Check this scriptures on religion

    James 1:26-27 If anyone considers himself religious and yet does not keep a tight rein on his tongue, he deceives himself and his religion is worthless. Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

    There's a way in which God wants everyone to serve him and a Majority that claim to be christian don't act like christians. Just cause you got a cross around your neck or you say you believe in Christ means nothing if you don't do the will of God. Can you dig?
    “Lord, whom shall we go away to? You have sayings of everlasting life"- John 6:68

  7. Quote Originally Posted by AE14 View Post
    I would love to see the remains of these creatures found
    Me too, lol. Many, many photos and articles exist on-line, but who knows now valid they are. Some appear to be legit if you research the issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by AE14 View Post
    I understand totally what you are saying. However, we must work with probability not possibility. As David Hume said "anything is possible, but you would be a fool to believe it"
    I agree completely.

    Quote Originally Posted by AE14 View Post
    I will say, that we can turn around your thoughts, that the theist is just an atheist that hasnt found the truth yet
    Haha, I think there are many atheists out there who are ex-theists, that just got tired of looking for the truth! It can certainly be quite tiring, dissecting the valuable tid-bits of truth from among all the lies, hypocrisy and disinfo.

    Remember, the greatest method of deception is to counterfeit.

  8. I don't know if it's already been mentioned but genesis, the bible story of creation belongs to the sumerians 2000 years before the bible was written.

    Noah's flood is also their story.

    Some of the stuff is word for word, the rest is a blatant copy.

    Word for word "Man was created in the image of God" "Adamu was created in the garden of Eden" and other passages not looking them up right now.

    Bible is not original by any means.

    All this stuff is fairy tales. The earth will waste away by nuclear warfare or human poisoning of the atmosphere. All natural, and normal things. You would think in our day and age people would be over a "spiritual Armageddon." But they're not....

    In Iran, they believe their "messiah" will come only after a huge war. Their "Imam" equivalent of the pope for catholics has more authority than anyone in their nation and brought Ahmedinejad to win the elections (remember the riots--the elections were rigged and everyone in that damn country knew). Together (along with other higher council men), Ahmedinejad and the Imam want to bring on their "messiah," and guess how? Wipe Isreal off the map. Warfare on global scales. It's in the NY times.

    See what these retarded beliefs bring on? We humans are complete idiots.

  9. Quote Originally Posted by chocolatemilk View Post
    I don't know if it's already been mentioned but genesis, the bible story of creation belongs to the sumerians 2000 years before the bible was written.

    Noah's flood is also their story.

    Some of the stuff is word for word, the rest is a blatant copy.

    Word for word "Man was created in the image of God" "Adamu was created in the garden of Eden" and other passages not looking them up right now.

    Bible is not original by any means.
    This is all incorrect. I think you're just spewing something you heard somebody else say, perhaps with good intentions, but it is incorrect no less. If you look into it for yourself, you will see great differences. For example, the Sumarians basically believed that aliens seeded the modern genome, while the Bible indicates that God created man, and the "aliens" initiated their own unauthorized genetic experiments to sabotage that. It's pretty interesting. You should look into it better if you're really interested in finding the truth.

    Quote Originally Posted by chocolatemilk View Post
    nuclear warfare or human poisoning of the atmosphere. All natural, and normal things. You would think in our day and age people would be over a "spiritual Armageddon." But they're not....

    In Iran, they believe their "messiah" will come only after a huge war. Their "Imam" equivalent of the pope for catholics has more authority than anyone in their nation and brought Ahmedinejad to win the elections (remember the riots--the elections were rigged and everyone in that damn country knew). Together (along with other higher council men), Ahmedinejad and the Imam want to bring on their "messiah," and guess how? Wipe Isreal off the map. Warfare on global scales. It's in the NY times.

    See what these retarded beliefs bring on? We humans are complete idiots.
    If we as humans are idiots, it's only because we believed the lies of religion! And now the established, organized religions have become so strong and wealthy that it will be hard to convince them to give up that power.

    That doesn't mean there is no god though.

  10. Quote Originally Posted by DR.D View Post
    This is all incorrect. I think you're just spewing something you heard somebody else say, perhaps with good intentions, but it is incorrect no less. If you look into it for yourself, you will see great differences. For example, the Sumarians basically believed that aliens seeded the modern genome, while the Bible indicates that God created man, and the "aliens" initiated their own unauthorized genetic experiments to sabotage that. It's pretty interesting. You should look into it better if you're really interested in finding the truth.
    You're right D, they are different story lines, however, they bear striking similarities and you seem to know about them. I'm surprised you don't agree with me that they are identical stories if you know about them. My Prof tells me it is well accepted that the genesis story arose from the summerian tablets among ALL scholars. Same with Noahs flood, the character in their story wasn't Noah, but strikingly similar passages at times that coincidence alone cannot stand to explain it.

    And I have read them, and compared passages in class.

    Quote Originally Posted by DR.D View Post
    If we as humans are idiots, it's only because we believed the lies of religion! And now the established, organized religions have become so strong and wealthy that it will be hard to convince them to give up that power.

    That doesn't mean there is no god though.
    You're absolutely right here. But if the belief in God that we have leads to destruction..... clearly, CLEARLY we need a change in belief wouldn't you agree? Must be following the wrong God if that's the case.

  11. Quote Originally Posted by chocolatemilk View Post
    We humans are complete idiots.
    I agree whole heartedly!


    Quote Originally Posted by chocolatemilk View Post



    if the belief in God that we have leads to destruction..... clearly, CLEARLY we need a change in belief wouldn't you agree? Must be following the wrong God if that's the case.
    God has to bring destruction, that is upon the ones destroying the earth and making it "hell" for the good ones. Otherwise like you said in a earlier post about nuclear warfare and poisoning of the atmosphere we will destroy ourselves. We have the power and we are getting closer every day to wiping ourselves off the map. Something has to change and we sure aren't doing a good job at saving ourselves!
    “Lord, whom shall we go away to? You have sayings of everlasting life"- John 6:68

  12. Quote Originally Posted by chocolatemilk View Post
    You're right D, they are different story lines, however, they bear striking similarities and you seem to know about them. I'm surprised you don't agree with me that they are identical stories if you know about them. My Prof tells me it is well accepted that the genesis story arose from the summerian tablets among ALL scholars. Same with Noahs flood, the character in their story wasn't Noah, but strikingly similar passages at times that coincidence alone cannot stand to explain it.

    And I have read them, and compared passages in class.
    Yeah, I hear what you're saying big time, but over the last few years I have researched this whole argument quite extensively. I think most professors have this two dimensional view of the similarities, and it boxes them into misleading preconceptions. They look at the sequential events and assume that since the Bible came later, the similarities were 'borrowed'. But there is absolutely no imperative for that to necessarily be true, so assumed conclusions are erroneous. The Earth is much older IMO, likely with races and civilizations that pre-dated man. This drama is like an ancient soap-opra unfolding, and you have to go back a little father in time to understand. If two opposing sides were given a script, or rules of engagement, how easy would it be to stage this view throughout history? A deception tactic to mislead many. I looks more like an ancient conspiracy protocol rather than an evolution of primitive religions. Something else is at work here bro, and it's not as simple as you've been lead to believe IMO.

    Quote Originally Posted by chocolatemilk View Post
    You're absolutely right here. But if the belief in God that we have leads to destruction..... clearly, CLEARLY we need a change in belief wouldn't you agree? Must be following the wrong God if that's the case.
    Oh man, if you've read the Bible then you already know how much Jesus hated religion. He hated it worse that most atheists do! I don't think a belief in God leads to destruction, I think a belief in religion is the culprit! With all it's rituals and requirements, that's the problem, the politics involved in all the churches. Trying to gain power by controlling the beliefs of their followers, and corrupting the whole point of their existence in the first place, which is to yield to a higher power for the good of the species, not to greedily seek control of men and destroy one another. God has really gotten a bad rap in all this.

  13. Quote Originally Posted by DR.D View Post
    This is all incorrect. I think you're just spewing something you heard somebody else say, perhaps with good intentions, but it is incorrect no less. If you look into it for yourself, you will see great differences. For example, the Sumarians basically believed that aliens seeded the modern genome, while the Bible indicates that God created man, and the "aliens" initiated their own unauthorized genetic experiments to sabotage that. It's pretty interesting. You should look into it better if you're really interested in finding the truth.
    the sumerians are an interesting case. these "aliens" were their gods, not necessarily extraterrestrial. However, if you reread the OT and another holy text like the Ramayana they are not much different from the Sumerians. The OT speak of elohim, which is plural, not singular. Additionally, they came from the sky and fire chariots. Hmmmm



    Quote Originally Posted by DR.D View Post
    If we as humans are idiots, it's only because we believed the lies of religion! And now the established, organized religions have become so strong and wealthy that it will be hard to convince them to give up that power.
    This is well said.
    Mr. Supps Board Rep

  14. Atheists say they hate religion how about the christians who see the hypocrisy in most religions. That boils our blood more then you know. Especially when your doing your hardest to serve God rightfully and these "so-called" christians are killing in the name of God. I lived in the Bible belt for almost 5 years and it's unbelievable the hypocrisy in them. They use religion to draw people into business and so on. Christ taught us to love one another and racism is strong down there. I couldn't believe it, I had to move back north. Not that you don't have hypocrisy everywhere but down there is was more abundant.
    “Lord, whom shall we go away to? You have sayings of everlasting life"- John 6:68

  15. Quote Originally Posted by DR.D View Post
    But there is absolutely no imperative for that to necessarily be true, so assumed conclusions are erroneous.
    This is very true D. However, with this ideology, a court ruling would always be considered an erroneous conclusion. So would many other things.

    There are numerous things that we can NEVER prove. It's just impossible to know for a sure fact that the Genesis story was borrowed from the Sumerian tablets logically speaking, however, I do believe we have smoking gun evidence for this.

    Quote Originally Posted by DR.D View Post
    I don't think a belief in God leads to destruction,
    Oh but it does. Believing in a God could surely lead to destruction.

    I will be 100% honest with you... when I was a deep Christian, I would hope everyday that some world disaster occurred. I wanted a big war to happen. And I think MANY believers in Christ WANT bad things to happen. Why? So that Jesus can come again.

    Can you believe that? I lived my life hoping for war, famine, destruction, all so that my "savior" would come.

    Horrible mode of thinking. Planting a seed like that in your mind where you welcome destruction is a disgusting seed to plant in yourself and leads to a mentally retarded person incapable of being truly compassionate.

    And for me... and many of you (I know many of you want the same things I did), it was my belief in God that fully welcomed destruction with open arms.

  16. Quote Originally Posted by chocolatemilk View Post
    This is very true D. However, with this ideology, a court ruling would always be considered an erroneous conclusion. So would many other things.

    There are numerous things that we can NEVER prove. It's just impossible to know for a sure fact that the Genesis story was borrowed from the Sumerian tablets logically speaking, however, I do believe we have smoking gun evidence for this.
    Yeah, I hear you loud and clear. I'm just thinking outside the box and considering alternate possibilities based on my research. Possibilities that seem more probable now, though still can't be proved.

    You have to be very careful what you "believe" in, and what you form solid conclusions about. Because once you look straight forward not looking to the left or right, your vision is only as good as the object of your focus! I'm just saying it's best to stay open minded and be slow to take any other man's opinion (even a professor or mentor) for fact. Every man must answer the question for himself, and it appears that many decoys and traps have been set by all sides involved for propaganda purposes.

    Quote Originally Posted by chocolatemilk View Post
    Oh but it does. Believing in a God could surely lead to destruction.

    I will be 100% honest with you... when I was a deep Christian, I would hope everyday that some world disaster occurred. I wanted a big war to happen. And I think MANY believers in Christ WANT bad things to happen. Why? So that Jesus can come again.

    Can you believe that? I lived my life hoping for war, famine, destruction, all so that my "savior" would come.

    Horrible mode of thinking. Planting a seed like that in your mind where you welcome destruction is a disgusting seed to plant in yourself and leads to a mentally retarded person incapable of being truly compassionate.

    And for me... and many of you (I know many of you want the same things I did), it was my belief in God that fully welcomed destruction with open arms.
    So you abandoned Christianity? Do you have any spiritual assertions now?

    Yes, you're probably right. Many people are eager for justice and righteousness to be restored to this world. The Bible indicates that righteousness will be restored one day, but living in that hope can result in some later days anxiety. I don't know how that could realistically be avoided though. It's like a kid that can't sleep the night before Christmas, it's just a side effect of the circumstance. It doesn't necessarily mean that Christmas is bad because it induces anxiety as it approaches, that's just how it goes.

  17. Quote Originally Posted by DR.D View Post
    Every man must answer the question for himself, and it appears that many decoys and traps have been set by all sides involved for propaganda purposes.
    I don't think there's any propaganda involved here. This isn't some mysterious artifact that has many questions surrounding it's validity like the 'Shroud of Turin.' This is a well established artifact dating back to the first civilization that began to read and write amongst the human species. They wrote a story identical to Genesis.

    Quote Originally Posted by DR.D View Post
    So you abandoned Christianity? Do you have any spiritual assertions now?
    Yes, I did, but not solely for that reason. Also, "abandoned" is the wrong word. More like freeing myself from the grips of Religion.

    I am a firm believer in a "higher form of intelligence." An intelligence that surpasses human capability. That is all I know about God. Nothing more. Nothing less.

    I simply separated my God from religion. You said it best:

    Quote Originally Posted by DR.D View Post
    I don't think a belief in God leads to destruction, I think a belief in religion is the culprit! With all it's rituals and requirements, that's the problem, the politics involved in all the churches.
    This was the best thing for me to mature mentally. To separate "Religion" from "God." To comprehend that God is not religious by any means--that God does not follow a religion. He is not from a religion.

    --------------------------------------------------------------

    Quote Originally Posted by DR.D View Post
    I don't know how that could realistically be avoided though. It's like a kid that can't sleep the night before Christmas, it's just a side effect of the circumstance. It doesn't necessarily mean that Christmas is bad because it induces anxiety as it approaches, that's just how it goes.
    Your Christmas analogy doesn't match up with what I said. When a child is anxious for Christmas, he is excited for a good thing that is coming. There is nothing wrong with that. That is a great feeling to have.

    I was not anxious for anything like Christmas--I was anxious for a big war. That's what I was waiting for, and that's what I wanted.

    There is a big difference.

  18. Quote Originally Posted by SELFofGOD View Post
    Since you seem to at least wanna look up some info here are some Christ like people forya to google yourself to death

    Virgin births b4 Christ :

    HORUS

    JASON

    RA

    JOVE

    APIS

    OSIRIS

    and more.

    A quik example on how The Christ story is not new.

    Horus of Egypt : Remember this is just one of many preceeding Christ,

    Horus was born of the virgin Isis-Meri on December 25th in a cave/manger, with his birth being announced by a star in the East and attended by three wise men.
    He was a child teacher in the Temple and was baptized when he was 30 years old.
    Horus was also baptized by "Anup the Baptizer," who becomes "John the Baptist."
    He had 12 disciples.
    He performed miracles and raised one man, El-Azar-us, from the dead.
    He walked on water.
    Horus was transfigured on the Mount.
    He was crucified, buried in a tomb and resurrected.
    He was also the "Way, the Truth, the Light, the Messiah, God's Anointed Son, the Son of Man, the Good Shepherd, the Lamb of God, the Word" etc.
    He was "the Fisher," and was associated with the Lamb, Lion and Fish ("Ichthys").
    Horus's personal epithet was "Iusa," the "ever-becoming son" of "Ptah," the "Father."
    Horus was called "the KRST," or "Anointed One," long before the Christians duplicated the story.
    In fact, in the catacombs at Rome are pictures of the baby Horus being held by the virgin mother Isis


    I may have misread the post- but u said horus becomes John the baptist- who prepared the way for Christ



    No matter what we say or do we cannot force someone to believe what we believe- period. Nor am I going to try to shove ANYTHING down anyones throats


    I will simply stick to my belief in Jesus Christ and do my best to follow Him- but I will say this- we can debate this all day long- but the personal experiences I have had- cannot be debated- I am not saying they are proof of who Christ is- what I am saying is my personal experiences with Jesus Christ are my own- and therefore cannot be debated!
    Test e/dbol/epi/winnie
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/164764-schwellington-has-been.html

  19. I will also say this- it is IMPOSSIBLE to prove God exists- but it is also IMPOSSIBLE to prove He does not-
    Test e/dbol/epi/winnie
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/164764-schwellington-has-been.html

  20. Quote Originally Posted by chocolatemilk View Post
    I don't think there's any propaganda involved here. This isn't some mysterious artifact that has many questions surrounding it's validity like the 'Shroud of Turin.' This is a well established artifact dating back to the first civilization that began to read and write amongst the human species. They wrote a story identical to Genesis.
    Reread the first 5-10 chapters of Genesis. Ever notice how the offspring of the ousted son Cain have the same, or extremely similar names as the line of his good brother Seth? Enoch and Enosh, Mehujael and Mehalalel, etc.. the thing is, it's not like there was a shortage of names back then! There was clearly some kind of attempted counterfeit and intent to generate confusion. It's nothing new man, this whole mystery of iniquity.

    Think about it. The most dangerous predator does not knock on your door looking like the wolf he is, he conceals himself as a shepard until the time of the kill. The devil masquerades as an angel of light too, pretending to be some kind of hidden hero, while he is only a skilled liar who relies of deception as his primary weapon.

    Quote Originally Posted by chocolatemilk View Post
    Yes, I did, but not solely for that reason. Also, "abandoned" is the wrong word. More like freeing myself from the grips of Religion.

    I am a firm believer in a "higher form of intelligence." An intelligence that surpasses human capability. That is all I know about God. Nothing more. Nothing less.

    I simply separated my God from religion. You said it best:

    This was the best thing for me to mature mentally. To separate "Religion" from "God." To comprehend that God is not religious by any means--that God does not follow a religion. He is not from a religion.

    --------------------------------------------------------------
    OK, I can respect that.

    Quote Originally Posted by chocolatemilk View Post
    Your Christmas analogy doesn't match up with what I said. When a child is anxious for Christmas, he is excited for a good thing that is coming. There is nothing wrong with that. That is a great feeling to have.

    I was not anxious for anything like Christmas--I was anxious for a big war. That's what I was waiting for, and that's what I wanted.

    There is a big difference.
    I don't necessarily agree. All's well that ends well. Or perhaps a more contemporary expression, the ends justify the means. Everybody recognizes the reality of that, right?

    If a war is necessary, then why would you have any particular bias against it? War, disaster, whatever.. is not necessarily "bad" or "good". The results are what define it.

    If a thief on the street cuts you with a knife and you die, that's "bad". If a doctor cuts you with a knife to help cure some illness, that's "good". Things should be defined based on the fruit they bear.

  21. Quote Originally Posted by DR.D View Post
    If a war is necessary, then why would you have any particular bias against it?
    Well war was necessary to stop Hitler so I don't have a bias against it between human affairs. War may be necessary at times between humans.

    But war being "necessary" between Gods affairs.... not a God I want to follow. Equivalent to me of the wolf dressed in the sheep's clothing like you said.

    The bible God comes off as a loving God, but what did he instruct the Israelites to do the Ameleks and all other nations once reaching the promised land? Kill every man, woman, babe, suckling, child, cattle, donkey, animal and utterly destroy them and show no mercy and make no covenants with them. So, Saul sets off to do this.

    On his way Saul meets the Canaanites and he doesn't kill them (he was supposed to rid all nations of the promised land). And when Saul reaches the Ameleks, he spares their king Agog, and brings back the cattle and animals to feed his people.

    Was God pleased about Sauls mercy to the Canaanites, Ameleks, and generosity to his people? No. He didn't get the blood shed he asked for. So God says to Saul, you have rejected me so I have rejected you.

    Are you kidding me? Heres the kicker:

    Samuel must make up for Sauls acts and he has to do this by hacking king Agog into pieces in front of the Lord. Disgusting.

    One of many cases of how "just" the Bible God really is.

    D... I believe you are following the wolf.

    Quote Originally Posted by DR.D View Post
    War, disaster, whatever.. is not necessarily "bad" or "good". The results are what define it.
    Just because the results of going to war against Hitler were good (free the world), it does not mean that "going to war" in itself and shedding blood all of the sudden was ALSO a good thing.

    I state it was a BAD thing... for a GOOD result.

    You state it was a GOOD thing... because of GOOD results.

    I think my ideology has more ground.

    Quote Originally Posted by DR.D View Post
    If a thief on the street cuts you with a knife and you die, that's "bad". If a doctor cuts you with a knife to help cure some illness, that's "good". Things should be defined based on the fruit they bear.
    Good example to prove your point. But it doesn't work with my WWII example where regardless of the outcome, it was still a bad thing we did. Kill, destroy, bomb, shed blood.... Never a good thing... but sometimes necessary within the human world.

  22. Quote Originally Posted by chocolatemilk View Post
    Well war was necessary to stop Hitler so I don't have a bias against it between human affairs. War may be necessary at times between humans.

    But war being "necessary" between Gods affairs.... not a God I want to follow. Equivalent to me of the wolf dressed in the sheep's clothing like you said.

    The bible God comes off as a loving God, but what did he instruct the Israelites to do the Ameleks and all other nations once reaching the promised land? Kill every man, woman, babe, suckling, child, cattle, donkey, animal and utterly destroy them and show no mercy and make no covenants with them. So, Saul sets off to do this.

    On his way Saul meets the Canaanites and he doesn't kill them (he was supposed to rid all nations of the promised land). And when Saul reaches the Ameleks, he spares their king Agog, and brings back the cattle and animals to feed his people.

    Was God pleased about Sauls mercy to the Canaanites, Ameleks, and generosity to his people? No. He didn't get the blood shed he asked for. So God says to Saul, you have rejected me so I have rejected you.

    Are you kidding me? Heres the kicker:

    Samuel must make up for Sauls acts and he has to do this by hacking king Agog into pieces in front of the Lord. Disgusting.

    One of many cases of how "just" the Bible God really is.

    D... I believe you are following the wolf. ...
    Yes, it would seem that God is quite hostile, when you see it from that angle. But your perspective is what determines your view. When you go to the pool and look at the 15ft diving board, it doesn't look that high from the ground. But when you climb up and look down, for some reason it looks much higher from the end of the board!

    Obedience is more important to God than human good intentions. It's like your mom telling you not to go in the street to get your ball. You do it anyway because it seems like a good idea to you, then your mom gets pissed and puts you on restriction for not listening to her instructions, lol. She knows best, though you do not understand her logic. God has a much greater perspective on things as a heavenly parent, so even if we don't understand or agree with His protocols, how foolish and futile is it to think our logic is better? He designed the whole system, we did not. That's why God attributed Saul's disobedience to the sin of Divination/witchcraft, because he must have been listening to some other spirit to pull such a bone head move. Any boss will fire you for that kind of insubordination, not just God.

    You have already made some big assumptions. Who's to say those tribes were even human? All those Canaanite derived tribes were the unsanctioned, genetically modified Nephilim hybrids (GMO) that were contaminating the human genome. They Bible talks about wheat and tares. They look like us, but they are not worthy of your sympathy, because they weren't even real humans according to the Bible. That's why God was so seemingly ruthless in His mandates to eradicate their DNA. That's why the world was flooded, and that's why Joshua was given a similar task as Saul, to clear the land of all the -ite tribes.

    Do you feel sorry for the cancer that the doctor cuts out of you? It's alive, it's part of you, so don't you feel bad to remove it? Doesn't it have an equal right to life too? You can feel that way if you like, but if you don't destroy the contamination in your life, it will eventually destroy yours. Have you ever considered it that way? Necessary evil. Actions are defined by their results and to a lesser extent by their motives. If the results and motives are bad, then the war itself is bad.

    I highly recommend this book if you want to understand the alternate perspective I'm talking about. This author has a web site and tons of very interesting u-tube videos also. If she is correct, it changes everything. Read this book and it'll sharpen your understanding of the Bible by leaps and bounds...

    [ame="http://www.amazon.com/Eden-Knowledge-Good-Evil-666/dp/1598862537/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid =1213839259&sr=8-1"]Amazon.com: Eden: The Knowledge of Good and Evil 666 (9781598862539): Joye Jeffries Pugh: Books[/ame]

  23. Quote Originally Posted by DR.D View Post
    Obedience is more important to God than human good intentions.
    I don't think the true God of our magnificent universe has this aspect about him.

    This is not a Godly aspect to have at all, but more of a power hungry dictator aspect where obedience is the number one priority over EVERYTHING, including human freedom and right to life.

    Quote Originally Posted by DR.D View Post
    It's like your mom telling you not to go in the street to get your ball...Any boss will fire you for that kind of insubordination, not just God.
    My mom would never tell me to hack someone into pieces in front of her...

    And although my boss MAY fire me for not following his order to kill someone... in our society, we award whistle blowers, and I would win against my boss any day for not following a command that violates human freedom. Just like Saul should have been awarded for not following his boss. He was a whistle blower and a good man.

    This story reminds me so much of the Nazi's and how some officers would refuse to kill Jews for Hitler, and in turn they themselves would be punished for it.

    You put in the roles here... Who's who?

    Quote Originally Posted by DR.D View Post
    You have already made some big assumptions. Who's to say those tribes were even human? All those Canaanite derived tribes were the unsanctioned, genetically modified Nephilim hybrids (GMO) that were contaminating the human genome. They Bible talks about wheat and tares. They look like us, but they are not worthy of your sympathy, because they weren't even real humans according to the Bible. That's why God was so seemingly ruthless in His mandates to eradicate their DNA. That's why the world was flooded, and that's why Joshua was given a similar task as Saul, to clear the land of all the -ite tribes.
    I have not read much about this and am very interested in all this... if you could give me a quick run down about this history of these non-human species mentioned in the bible I would appreciate it D. Nothing elaborate just a quick run down.

    Quote Originally Posted by DR.D View Post
    If the results and motives are bad, then the war itself is bad.
    The war is always bad. Nothing about it--it's motives, outcomes, necessity can ever make it a good thing. It's always a bad thing, but it CAN be for a good cause.

    D.. I will look into the book. It will frustrate me to read something like this with my tendency to argue to death about this topic lol but I'll try.

    And from me... youtube "God on trial" and watch the entire movie. Theres 9 parts I believe not too long. Beautiful philosophical movie we had to watch in my philosophy class about everything we're talking about. You will like it very much trust me. Please watch it on your free time.

    Also, we can go on forever arguing like this lol... any third party want to weigh in on what we were talking about? Feel free to, I'd love to here others perspectives on this issue we are discussing.

  24. Quote Originally Posted by chocolatemilk View Post
    I don't think the true God of our magnificent universe has this aspect about him.

    This is not a Godly aspect to have at all, but more of a power hungry dictator aspect where obedience is the number one priority over EVERYTHING, including human freedom and right to life.
    .
    this is a point I try to make frequently. The god of the OT is not a nice and kind god, it is a flawed, human like god with major personality issues. He would be a freudian nightmare
    Mr. Supps Board Rep

  25. Quote Originally Posted by chocolatemilk View Post
    I don't think the true God of our magnificent universe has this aspect about him.

    This is not a Godly aspect to have at all, but more of a power hungry dictator aspect where obedience is the number one priority over EVERYTHING, including human freedom and right to life. ...
    Yes, it could be a bunch of crap, that was instituted to control people with fear. At first, that's certainly what the Bible appears to be.

    But the whole point of my argument, is what if it's not? What if it is true (at least to some important degree), and what would be the pertinent implications of that?

    I won't speculate about what a "Godly aspect" should even be, how can I criticize? I'm not God. All I really expected from my parents was to be honest with me. As long as God's truthful with me, I can adapt to His will. If there really is a sovereign god, it would necessarily be futile to oppose him anyway.

    Read that book man! If nothing else, it may dispel some of your preconceptions and allow you an enhanced new perspective.
  •   

      
     

Similar Forum Threads

  1. Mdrol 53426 Oct.2012
    By Nova1723 in forum Anabolics
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 02-05-2010, 09:49 AM
  2. Replies: 292
    Last Post: 01-21-2010, 12:41 PM
  3. Ordering A Pizza In 2012
    By purebred in forum Politics
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 09-28-2009, 08:08 AM
  4. Best Sunglass Face Catching Ever !!!
    By anabolicrhino in forum General Chat
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 05-14-2007, 10:41 PM
Log in
Log in