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Loaded guns allowed in national parks under bill

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    Loaded guns allowed in national parks under bill


    By MATTHEW DALY, Associated Press Writer 1 hr 1 min ago
    WASHINGTON The Democratic-controlled Congress is moving to restore a Bush administration policy that allowed loaded guns in national parks.
    The Senate voted Tuesday to allow guns in national parks and wildlife refuges, and the House could follow suit as soon as Wednesday.
    The measure is included in a popular bill imposing new restrictions on credit card companies. Democratic leaders have said they hope to send a final version to the White House for the president's signature by week's end
    The Senate vote is a stark reversal from what many gun-control advocates expected when a federal judge blocked the Bush policy in March. The Obama administration accepted the ruling, saying that the Interior Department would conduct a full environmental review.
    The review is expected to take several months at least. In the meantime, restrictions that had been in place since the Reagan administration remain in effect. The rules severely restrict guns in the national parks, generally requiring them to be locked or stored.
    That timetable changed quickly last week after Oklahoma Sen. Tom Coburn inserted an amendment to the credit bard that would allow concealed, loaded guns in parks and refuges.
    To the surprise of many, the amendment easily passed, winning support from 67 senators including 27 Democrats. Among those who voted "yes" was Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid of Nevada, who had blocked Coburn's amendment from coming to the Senate floor for more than a year. Seven other Western Democrats voted with Reid to support the Republican senator's amendment, which allows a range of firearms in national parks and wildlife refuges as long as they are allowed by federal, state and local law.
    Spokesman Jim Manley said Reid is a strong supporter of the Second Amendment, adding that the guns in parks issue was a major concern for many Nevadans.
    "The rules that apply to our federal lands are felt acutely in Nevada, where 87 percent of the state's land is managed by federal agencies," Manley said.
    The Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, which sued to block the Bush policy, called the Senate vote reckless. The group called on President Barack Obama to demand that the gun provision be stripped from the credit card bill.
    "Families should not have to stare down loaded AK-47s on nature hikes," said Brady campaign president Paul Helmke. "The president should not remain silent while Congress inserts reckless gun policies that he strongly opposes into a bill that has nothing whatsoever to do with guns."
    Helmke and other critics, including environmental groups, park rangers and the Humane Society, say the Coburn amendment goes further than the Bush administration policy that briefly allowed loaded handguns in national parks and refuges. The measure would allow individuals to openly carry rifles, shotguns and even semiautomatic weapons on ranger-led hikes and campfire programs at national parks, the groups said.
    Coburn said the gun measure protects every American's Second Amendment rights and also protects the rights of states to pass laws that apply to their entire state, including public lands.
    "Visitors to national parks should have the right to defend themselves in accordance with the laws of their states," Coburn said.

    I agree with the law, but disagree that it should get shoved into the credit card reform. Its an obvious case of buying votes for the credit card reform bill by letting the republicans tack on something they wanted....
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    It's a retarded addition and should be bundled with a bill that somewhat follows a gun type of baseline... I was listening to the radio where they said they believe it'll be pulled before the final vote.

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    wat dose havin a gun in a park have to do with cedit cards??

    guns in the park is a good thing now we might get big foot

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    One thing that absolutely HAS to be done away with is this sleazy rider method of adding in unrelated legislation. Seriously, if you are trying to throw something in, then it's GOT to be suspicious.

    Each bill should be limited to the DIRECTLY RELEVANT subject matter.
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    dsade, you are right on.

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    Should be, but that goes directly contrary to how the system actually works. You only get votes for your bill X if you compromise enough with legislators to allow their own agenda to get enacted some how. That's how you end up with these bills which are really just a morass of **** and crap. All legislation is really political opportunity cost; what had to be given to the other side to get it past their vote. If we were to limit legislation to the subject matter in question and not allow riders and dealing well, Christ, people would actually have to vote their beliefs, not their special interests. You want the system to implode or something?

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    Quote Originally Posted by CDB View Post
    Should be, but that goes directly contrary to how the system actually works. You only get votes for your bill X if you compromise enough with legislators to allow their own agenda to get enacted some how. That's how you end up with these bills which are really just a morass of **** and crap. All legislation is really political opportunity cost; what had to be given to the other side to get it past their vote. If we were to limit legislation to the subject matter in question and not allow riders and dealing well, Christ, people would actually have to vote their beliefs, not their special interests. You want the system to implode or something?
    give me a minute....I'm thinking
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    We all know how it CURRENTLY works. The point was how it SHOULD work.

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    LOL, the demmies got a taste of their old tricks. Democrats have been inserting antigun legislation into bills for years!

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    Quote Originally Posted by dsade View Post

    Each bill should be limited to the DIRECTLY RELEVANT subject matter.
    Absolutely agree, but it never works this way. Usually the person who sponsors the bill, allows other additions for the support of his bill.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DrMorris View Post
    We all know how it CURRENTLY works. The point was how it SHOULD work.
    I SHOULD have a 10 inch **** and be showered with moist women whenever I want them. No one really SHOULD have to work to live. There SHOULD be a world of plenty from which we could all take and not worry about scarcity. There SHOULD be no murder or theft, or other such crime. However there is. And it's not a matter of choice that none of these things are, it's matter of reality. The way you think government SHOULD work is a way in which it will NEVER work because people simply don't behave that way when you give them a ****load of power and money and guns and the ability to make laws, which is at base the legal right to kill anyone who disobeys them. Not everything is a matter of obedience, some **** you just have to deal with as is and minimize it if its unpleasant. Like the government.

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    You SHOULD get a pump to help you out with your size problems. 10 inch is average right? If not, it SHOULD be! LOL

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    Quote Originally Posted by DrMorris View Post
    You SHOULD get a pump to help you out with your size problems. 10 inch is average right? If not, it SHOULD be! LOL
    BWAHAHAHA!

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    So let me see if I've got this right...if I carry a rifle into Yellowstone I get a free c*ck pump?
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    I agree with the law, but disagree that it should get shoved into the credit card reform. Its an obvious case of buying votes for the credit card reform bill by letting the republicans tack on something they wanted....
    I agree with the law. I hate gun control freaks. who is going to have to "look down an AK47" on a hike, get a life. Someone needs to shoot him...

    Then again it is a good point that it is shoveled in with the CC bill...lol, like flamingo among pigeons eh.

    Credit is what ruined this country....the idea of it screws over people who make mistakes, and rips off the population, as well as drives up debt and all in all lowers the value of the dollar.

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    hmmmmm
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  17. CDB
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilentBob187 View Post
    So let me see if I've got this right...if I carry a rifle into Yellowstone I get a free c*ck pump?
    Actually also in the cc bill is the new **** pump control act. There's a five day flacidity period before you can buy one now.

  18. Never enough
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrMorris View Post
    You SHOULD get a pump to help you out with your size problems. 10 inch is average right? If not, it SHOULD be! LOL
    obama said even people with poor credit history and income should have the same access to credit as people with good credit history and income and it happened, why shouldnt yours?
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    We know how it works and most people would agree they'd like to see it changed.

    The real question is not how it should work but how we can transition to how we want it to work.

    I feel if the public was more outspoken about their disapproval and hold congressmen directly responsible and accountable for their actions then we would see the congressmen change their ways especially if the turnover rate of congressmen started increasing.

    I think that with the tech age that we're in we can force our gov't into a mode of transparency and remove those gov't officials who disapprove of transparency from office we'd have a more efficient gov't and country.

  20. CDB
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoTiV View Post
    I think that with the tech age that we're in we can force our gov't into a mode of transparency and remove those gov't officials who disapprove of transparency from office we'd have a more efficient gov't and country.
    And you're wrong. Sorry to be the one to break that to you, but there is no right way or efficient way for government to function because it is wrong and inefficient by nature. It's like trying to get a snail to run a marathon, it's not a matter of doing it this way or that, it just isn't going to happen by nature.

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