Israeli jets target Gaza tunnels

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    Thumbs up Israeli jets target Gaza tunnels


    Israel has bombed supply tunnels in the southern Gaza Strip in a second day of intense air raids aimed at forcing Hamas militants to halt rocket fire.

    Israeli Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni says the operation has been a success so far and the aim is to "change realities on the ground" in Gaza.

    Israel has threatened to launch a ground assault and is now calling up 6,500 army reservists.

    Palestinians say at least 280 people have died in the air raids.
    LINK

    Basically, Hamas started firing rockets in a civilian population and Israel just let hell break loose on EVERYONE!

    I'm not really Pro-Israel, especially after I heard about the USS Liberty a few years back, but you just gotta admire how they don't give a f**k about anyone and if attacked, they attack and kill at least 2 times as more people as the other side and as the lady in the video said "It's justifiable" I'm sure Nancy would say that too....

    Anyone remember the 1983 US Marine Barrack bombings in Lebanon ? where also, French Soldiers were killed?

    The US NEVER launched jets in retaliation of the bombings, but the French, out of all people, conducted air raids on suspected targets and civilians.

    The US can be a P.C. ***** sometimes.

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    More Developments!

    Israel bombs university in Gaza !!

    Israeli air force jets have bombed the Islamic University in the Gaza Strip, a significant cultural symbol for Hamas.

    Warplanes also struck Hamas government offices as air raids aimed at forcing Palestinian militants to halt rocket fire into southern Israel continued.

    Palestinian medics say nearly 300 people have been killed in the air raids that began on Saturday.
    Israeli officials say the raids have been a success so far


    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7802515.stm
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    its about 325:0 right now. the palestinians have fired over 5000 rockets into israel, from gaza, in the last 3 years. keep in mind 3 years ago israel gave in to palestinian demands, forcibly removed all jews from gaza, forfeited their land and businesses, and turned gaza wholly over to palestinian control.

    what do the palestinians do? fire thousands of rockets, attack israel from gaza, kidnap soldiers, and elect hamas as their gov't. they killed tens of israelis, and laid waste to the southern region of israel due to fear of the rockets, costing millions of dollard.

    **** em. btw, civilian casualties are very low, so far.
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    What I don't understand is why Hamas refused to extend the cease fire. The reports make is sound like they where almost eager to get back to fighting. Was there some new provision they didn't like or something?
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    I cannot imagine why anyone wants to mess with the IDF. I mean seriously, they f*** stuff up, thats what they do. Hamas is getting annihilated, and will continue to do so.
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    This just bumps up "The Looming Tower" on my to-read list, since I still am unable to grasp the full reasoning behind the wars and should become more aware of the situation. As a university student, I feel a bit annoyed with them bombing any university (Perhaps they feel there is some sort of idealogical brainwashing going on there I don't know)
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    Quote Originally Posted by DR.D View Post
    What I don't understand is why Hamas refused to extend the cease fire. The reports make is sound like they where almost eager to get back to fighting. Was there some new provision they didn't like or something?
    they never upheld the ceasefire; israel did. the gazans used the ceasefire to build fortified bunkers, smuggle weapons and longer range missiles into israel, and prepare for this. they were firing missiles the whole time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steveoph View Post
    This just bumps up "The Looming Tower" on my to-read list, since I still am unable to grasp the full reasoning behind the wars and should become more aware of the situation. As a university student, I feel a bit annoyed with them bombing any university (Perhaps they feel there is some sort of idealogical brainwashing going on there I don't know)
    the 'university' is a recruiting center for hamas, and a hideout for terrorists. israel doesn't attack ideas, or places ideas are passed around. israel will attack a place where terror attacks are planned and coordinated.

    palestinian terrorists are so inhuman and cynical that they put bomb factories under schools and hospitals, fire kassam missles from crowded tenement yards, or use kids to transport suicide bomb vests and carry out attacks. th university was no different. the people voted hamas into power, and in return hamas uses them as human shields. karmas a bitch.
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    For those curious about Hamas' awesome governance of Gaza over the last couple years:

    http://twitter.com/QassamCount
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    I believe that I read in a recent article that the Hamas "militia" threatened to reopen suicide bomber operations in Israel if the violence ensued.

    Another thing that absolutely pisses me off is some Al-Sadr followers rioting down in Iraq. Apparantly they think its unjust for a country to fight back, and demand Israel to pull out. To them it's apparantly alright to bomb innocent women and children, yet it suprises them when they get retaliated for it. Foolish cowards.

    And yes, it is beyond me why Hamas would refuse to extend the cease-fire. And their opening act is to missile innocent lives? Such cowardice.
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    They will attempt suicide bombings.
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    An interviewee today said she'd been told by a Hamas member that they were hoping to provoke Israel into an extreme response, apparently in hopes of generating protests against Israel globally.

    (listened to the interview, no identifying details, sorry)
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    It worked. Problem is, no one cares about hamas. A slight miscalculation on their part.
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    YouTube - What Israel doesnt want you to know

    Not so cool facts about isreal.
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    facts, eh? how about fiction. this has nothing to do with this thread.
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    Quote Originally Posted by poison View Post
    ... karmas a bitch.
    You ****ing got that right man, karma is inescapable. If you believe what the Bible says about it, it clearly warns that anybody who opposes Israel will lose. The Bible also predicts that Damascus will rest in ruins, so this might get ugly real quick if it goes atomic. I'm just thinking, why would you start a fight with a superior force, unless you had a big wild card up your sleeve, and what nations is Hamas friendly with?
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    armageddon will begin as a result of this. Not necessarily now of course, but down the line. Time to sit back and watch.
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    Israel vows war on Hamas in Gaza.

    Top Israeli officials have vowed to continue attacks on militant group Hamas, as Israeli air strikes pounded the Gaza Strip for a third day.

    Israel was fighting a "war to the bitter end" against Hamas, its defence chief said. A top army official said no Hamas buildings would be left standing. !
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7803711.stm

    Video inside.

    They're pounding the sh!t out of them and I f**king LOVE IT!
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    Quote Originally Posted by poison View Post
    For those curious about Hamas' awesome governance of Gaza over the last couple years:

    http://twitter.com/QassamCount
    Thanks for the link. Is there any good articles/reads that tries to explain the history behind the situation; I know it's very long (There's the entire book about it), but any "primers" to just refresh the whole situation that I could read in under an hour?
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    The Gaza Air Strikes: Why Israel Attacked - Yahoo! News

    Israel's strike on Gaza had been expected for days, but it was still a surprise when it finally came. Taking advantage of good weather, which is forecast to last at least three days, Israeli planes bombed some 40 Palestinian police stations, posts and other targets early Saturday morning, killing more than 150 people including a number of senior Hamas military leaders. The first strikes came in a coordinated three-minute blitz.

    Israeli officials say the strikes were necessary to force an end to the rocket attacks from Gaza, which is ruled by the radical Islamist group Hamas after it split from the Palestinian Authority run by President Mahmoud Abbas out of the West Bank. Palestinian militants in Gaza have long launched Kassam and other rockets at Israeli towns across the border, and in the past six weeks the number of attacks has increased dramatically. After the attack, Israeli officials said the number of Palestinian rocket attacks could now spike to 200 a day. Hamas announced that it had sent a rocket toward Askelon; one man in the Israeli town of Netivot, east of the Gaza strip, was killed. Israel also expects Hamas to launch suicide attacks against Israel. A Hamas leader promised as much Saturday.

    But Israel is prepared to ratchet up the pressure still further in the hope that it will force a workable ceasefire. Saturday's attack was authorized two days previously, and though no Israeli ground troops have crossed into Gaza so far, that remains an option according to Israeli officials. Dozens of Israeli air force planes remain in the skies above Gaza. "If they retaliate they will feel it stronger and the number [of casualties] on the Gaza side will rise", a senior Israeli military source told TIME.

    But Israel will need to move carefully. Air strikes that kill large numbers of Palestinian civilians are only likely to fuel support for Hamas, and ramp up international pressure to end the operation quickly. (See photos of Gaza border tension.)

    Israel and Hamas agreed to a ceasefire in June. Israel wants the release of captured Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit and is extremely wary of becoming embroiled in a military operation in Gaza with no clear exit strategy. Hamas needed the truce to relieve the catastrophic economic strain imposed by the Israeli siege and to consolidate its control over Gaza. And so, for very different reasons, the two sides found themselves negotiating - not directly, because neither side recognizes the other - but through an Egyptian mediator. But in the past few weeks the ceasefire has all but broken down.

    Indeed, even as the Israelis said the operation was continuing, Egypt was among the diplomatic casualties. Cairo had played host to Israeli Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni on Dec. 25. She took the opportunity to criticize Hamas for its rocket attacks. The silence of her Egyptian hosts is now being seen by Palestinians as indirect collusion with Israel, damaging Cairo's ability to play mediator. Furthermore, in the contest for primacy between Hamas and Abbas's Palestinian Authority (PA), Hamas, as the "victim" of this episode, emerges as the victor in the eyes of Arabs and Palestinians. Already, elements of Abbas' own Fatah Party, the bulwark of the PA, are campaigning against the security cooperation with Israel and talking about boycotting meetings with the Jewish state.

    Both Israel and Hamas have their reasons for a return to open hostilities. Livni and her allies face a looming election against the more hawkish former Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. Hamas may be pushing for tactical gains, like doing away with a 600-meter no-man's land established by the Israeli military on the Palestinian side of the boundary fence. The recent rocket attacks were also well timed because of the political vacuum in the U.S. In Washington, officials have been urging Israel to refrain from an invasion or other operations in Gaza during the White House transition. The air attack on Gaza has shattered that hope. With reporting by Jamil Hamad/Bethlehem

    View this article on Time.com
    Here's more background:

    Jews have lived in Israel, continuously, for 6000 years. Rulers have come and gone, but the Jews remained. fast forward to the 1800's; the Russians conducted intense pograms against the Jews, killing many, and causing more to flee, many to what was then called Palestine under Turkish Ottoman rule. Between 1880 and 1917, when the ottoman Empire lost Palestine to the British Empire in WWI, there were several distinct waves of Jews who emigrated to Palestine, joining the Jews already there. In 1910 Palestine was about 1/6 jewish; by 1947, it was 1/3 jewish.

    By the early 1900's, the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem started foamenting anti-semitism. In the 20's there were a number of massacres of Jews, notably in Jerusalem and Hebron in 1929. In 1934, IIRC, the Grand Mufti met with Hitler in Germany, and offered his support in furthering his Final Solution.

    The Jews, in response to Arab harassment, formed militias, which became the Hagana, or 'Defense', which later became the IDF. The Holocaust fanned the ever burning flame of Zionism, the desire to return to Israel, the ancestral homeland, as a people.

    The Brits were enamored with exotic locals, and loved the idea of sunning themselves while being waited on by darkies, but never wanted to get their hands dirty. As with most other lands they conquered, they royally (pun intended) ****ed Palestine up. There were around 20 years of dithering and hand-wringing; they drafted documents, notably the Balfour declaration:

    The Balfour Declaration of 1917 (dated 2 November 1917) was a classified formal statement of policy by the British government stating that the British government "view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people" with the understanding that "nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country." [1]
    Quote Originally Posted by actual balfour text
    Foreign Office,
    November 2nd, 1917.

    Dear Lord Rothschild,
    I have much pleasure in conveying to you, on behalf of His Majesty's Government, the following declaration of sympathy with Jewish Zionist aspirations which has been submitted to, and approved by, the Cabinet:
    "His Majesty's Government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country".
    I should be grateful if you would bring this declaration to the knowledge of the Zionist Federation.

    Yours sincerely
    Arthur James Balfour
    The Brits were caught in between skirmishing Jews and Arabs, and when the UN recommended Palestine be divided, they threw up their hands, drew relatively arbitrary lines in the sand, and split. Here is a map of those lines:



    The Orange is Jewish. If you're not familiar, the large southern orange bit is the arid Negev desert, so a majority of the land allotted to the Jews was bone dry and not condusive to living. The northern areas are very lush and green.

    In Nov 1947, the Brits, the League of Nations, and the US essentially handed the respective areas to the Jews and Arabs. The jews accepted their allotment, the ARabs refused it and refused to negotiate. The British Mandate ended officially on May 14, 1948, and the Jews declared the STate of Israel the day before. The Arab countries, all of em, attacked Israel the next day, in a year long War of Independence. The Palestinians living in Israel mostly fled at the ARab countries request to allow for the impending slaughter of the Jews, which did not happen. Many of these ended up in refugee camps in Israel, Egypt, and Jordan.

    There have been many wars, all due to attack or impending attack by superior Arab numbers, all of which Israel has won. Israel has returned land captured in a defensive war for peace.

    The current situation boils down to this: the Palestinians are pawns, used by their own leaders and the Arab world as leverage against Israel. Hatred for Jews runs deep in the ARab world, and did before Israel existed. The Arabs refused to live next to Jews in 1947, and gambled on killing them all and retaking the land. They lost that gamble.

    Keep in mind there was never, in history, a Palestinian people; Israel/Palestine was never under Palestinian rule; Palestinians did not exist, nor call themselves 'Palestinian' until after Israel was formed. Before Israel it was British land; before that it was Turk, back to the 1500's; before that it was Mamluk, then Crusader, then Arab Caliphate or something. They have no claim as a 'people', or as a country. Individual Palestinians DO have claim to individual plots of land. No more, no less.

    Arafat ****ed his people, and damaged them beyond belief. He showed extreme pride in his child terrorists, he set the school curriculum to 'full hate', and fostered an environment of poverty, hopelessness, and violence. He died with a net worth of ~$1 BILLION; instead of using hundreds of millions of dollars of aid from the international community, he instead horded it for himself, and trickled enough to his people to fund nasty acts of terror.

    Israel turned the West Bank over to him in 1994, and it fell into ruin; and again in 2005, Israel turned Gaza over to full Palestinian controL, and the same happened.

    I don't like what's happening. I'd rather have a beer, or felafel, with the palestinians, than hurt them. But their choices (like 80% of Gaza voting for a terror organization with the avowed intent of the destruction of the state oF israel) have equal, and opposite reactions. Israel sustained 5000 rockets on their southern most cities over the last 3 years, condoned by the Hamas gov't. Israel, for the most part, did nothing in return.

    Enough.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omen View Post
    ...The US can be a P.C. ***** sometimes.
    which is why they don't win wars
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    Very informative. Thanks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilentBob187 View Post
    It has everything to do with this thread. I really don't want to get in to a zionist debate but in my opinion the establishment of Israel was a mistake. Since the past cannot be undone the only hope is a peaceful resolution that will never occur due to the United States being able to veto any vote against Israeli war crimes in the United Nations (Seat on the UN security council). Oh what tangled webs we weave. A tear for the Palestinians fighting for their freedom and their country.

    Poison, you don't have to agree with me but I ask you to at least understand what the Palestinians are fighting for.

    I understand. Many fight for many different reasons: many just want what we all want, a house, a yard, and food on the table for happy kids. But many more fight because someone told them to, be it in the mosque or school or on TV; others fight because they hate Jews; still others probably forgot why they fight.

    I wouldn't mind so much if they attacked IDF soldiers; if you consider yourself oppressed, that's somehow legitimate. Purposely formulating terror attacks so as to cause the most child casualties is, well, the definition of terrorism, but also evil and wrong, and removes ANY sense of legitimacy they may ever have had. I wouldn't mind if they showed any desire to at the least ignore Israel (no need to be friends), and went about bettering themselves; instead, they choose to blame everything on 'the Jews', the Nakhba (Disaster), and take no responsibility for their actions and predicament.

    there are many other peoples, far more oppressed than the Palestinians: Cambodians, Burmese, Tibetans, Africans, hell, the Jews faced total annihilation, squeaked through by the grace of God and the Allies actions, and here they are 60 years later, contributing greatly to technology, sciEnce, medical, and more, despite constant attacks. The Palestinians squander every overture at reconciliation, preferring instead to not even negotiate as a first step. THere is no first step, only death.

    Fully 20% of Israel proper, OUTSIDE the West Bank and Gaza, is Palestinian/Israeli; in other words, 20% of Israels population are ARabs, with full rights as citizens, members in Israeli parliment, and so on, productive members of ISraeli society. There is a reason they have not joined their brothers, fathers, and aunt's in the WEst Bank and Gaza, or moved away; they have better lives and more freedom than any Arab country could ever provide. Jews aren't all hooked nosed, horned money grubbers. Yet when Israel pulled out of Gaza in 2005, they required that every Jew leave, every last one, and when they were gone, they burned the synagogues. That's intolerance.

    If they marched peacefully on Jerusalem, en masse, and demanded the 1948 borders, along with compensation, with a guarantee of peace in return, thEy'd have a state in a week flat. Why don't they do it? Hatred. They refuse compromise, they refuse to live WITH Jews.

    Their future is in their hands; they can either squander it on raising little death dealing demons, or choose the path of light. Either way, they reap what they sow.
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    kill them all and let God sort them out
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    Quote Originally Posted by jakellpet View Post
    which is why they don't win wars
    IMO, we need to apologize for our previous behavior and stop f**king with people and "international crises" let everyone and the UN do it for them, we are not the world police.

    But at the same time, if we get attacked, we should act like Israel, Deliver severe punishment swiftly, brutally and leave, not hang around to "rebuild"

    One day when I buy my own country, I'll hit you up to start the government wit me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omen View Post
    IMO, we need to apologize for our previous behavior and stop f**king with people and "international crises" let everyone and the UN do it for them, we are not the world police.

    But at the same time, if we get attacked, we should act like Israel, Deliver severe punishment swiftly, brutally and leave, not hang around to "rebuild"

    One day when I buy my own country, I'll hit you up to start the government wit me.
    yes, yes and yes... I was thinking when I am Emperor of the Universe etc etc
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    Quote Originally Posted by jakellpet View Post
    yes, yes and yes... I was thinking when I am Emperor of the Universe etc etc
    Shiiii, I don't see that happening. I'll never even get to finish my wormhole project so I can reach the massive black hole in the center of the galaxy and find the magical cure to block the myostatin gene if everybody keeps this crap up! I was telepathically negotiating with Rothgar, lord of the Cragnite peoples for the secret formula, and all he wanted in exchange were a few earth women.

    Seriously though, it looks like this is going to happen at some point and there isn't much we can do about it. If a bunch of Arab nations get pissed over this retaliation and decide to rally against Israel now, I'd guess Israel might finally apply their Samson Option. Especially if Iran is getting close or already in position to strike too. They are clearly not playing around anymore. The domestic implications are what concern me. What effect might that have on our already precarious economic situation?
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    The Israelis are more than aware of their own vulnerabilities, and will not hesitate in throwing the first (and last) punch - that's what's keeping the Iranians in check for the time being.

    I once dated this female Israeli tank commander... boy was she a fox
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilentBob187 View Post
    It has everything to do with this thread. I really don't want to get in to a zionist debate but in my opinion the establishment of Israel was a mistake. Since the past cannot be undone the only hope is a peaceful resolution that will never occur due to the United States being able to veto any vote against Israeli war crimes in the United Nations (Seat on the UN security council). Oh what tangled webs we weave. A tear for the Palestinians fighting for their freedom and their country.

    Poison, you don't have to agree with me but I ask you to at least understand what the Palestinians are fighting for.
    if you ever bothered to learn some history you would know this was never the palestinians land,and they were all the arabs the other arab nations would not except.and you should study the conditions between isreali arab citizens and those who live under palistinian rule.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rabbievil View Post
    if you ever bothered to learn some history you would know this was never the palestinians land,and they were all the arabs the other arab nations would not except.and you should study the conditions between isreali arab citizens and those who live under palistinian rule.
    It's complicated.... a bit like the Balkans (not a direct comparison, just a comparison in complexity)

    In any case, the Israeli's have 'it', who's game enough to try and take 'it'? I pity the fools.

    The Israeli's I have met in my travels are hardarse mad bastards - chicks included.

    I have a lot of respect for the Israelis - they have to go through a lot of shit at an early age.
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    history is not complicated,people complicate history
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    Quote Originally Posted by rabbievil View Post
    you should study the conditions between isreali arab citizens and those who live under palistinian rule.
    Are those citizens the civilians that are shot by IDF snipers or the individuals forced to wait for hours in countless checkpoints just to go from one town to another?

    No matter what side you take, (sides shouldn't be taken anyway,) the situation is awful for all involved and won't end well for either 'side'.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilentBob187 View Post
    Are those citizens the civilians that are shot by IDF snipers or the individuals forced to wait for hours in countless checkpoints just to go from one town to another?

    No matter what side you take, (sides shouldn't be taken anyway,) the situation is awful for all involved and won't end well for either 'side'.
    I got ****faced with a couple of IDF snipers in Thailand some moons ago.

    They told me this story how some Arabs used to take donkeys out into the desert to 'pamper' them in the dead of night.

    One night the Arabs took these little kids out there, so the IDF guys popped their fkn heads like melons.

    ...the next round was on me
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    That's wild man, those are folks I would never want to mess with.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilentBob187 View Post
    Are those citizens the civilians that are shot by IDF snipers or the individuals forced to wait for hours in countless checkpoints just to go from one town to another?

    No matter what side you take, (sides shouldn't be taken anyway,) the situation is awful for all involved and won't end well for either 'side'.
    let me guess: one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter; everyone is right, or there is no 'right'; everything is grey.

    you gotta stand for something, or you'll fall for everything.
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    I do stand for something, but this isn't a simple two-sided situation.
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    i agree, it isn't simple, but I disagree that we shouldn't take sides.

    you say civilians stand in checkpoints or are killed by snipers. 1) the idf does not indiscriminately kill civilians. no other standing army has as strict rules of engagement as israel, and no other army avoids civilian casualties like israel. for reference, the us killed several times more civilians in iraq in 4 years than israel has killed TOTAL in its entire history and accompanying 6-7 wars. 2) palestinians stand in checkpoints because they elect leaders who are terrorists, they support terror, and they send suicide bombers into israeli civilian areas to kill innocent civilians. if they didnt do that, there wouldnt be checkpoints.

    you tell me why they dont follow ghandi and mlk, men who succeeded where the palestinians fail, again, and again, and again? israelis are reasonable people, not murders. if you read the news, even now israel is already considering a ceasefire, because they do not enjoy this. problem is, hamas is upping the ante with long range rockets, and even if israel wants to stop, they likely wont be able to.
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    it is Hamas that is effectively putting civilians in harms way - using them as human shields.
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    Quote Originally Posted by poison View Post
    i agree, it isn't simple, but I disagree that we shouldn't take sides.

    palestinians stand in checkpoints because they elect leaders who are terrorists, they support terror, and they send suicide bombers into israeli civilian areas to kill innocent civilians
    If I'm reading the original news story correctly, Israel launched this attack at soon as the cease fire ended.

    The current situation, regardless of the 'side' you choose to take creates a constant stream of aggression between both parties. Israeli attacks creates for Hamas new terrorists, and Hamas terrorism create more Israeli attacks.

    israelis are reasonable people, not murders
    BBC NEWS | Middle East | Gaza aid boat 'rammed by Israel'

    This was a boat full of aid workers; doctors and journalists yet it was subject to an Israeli violation of UN maritime law, included being rammed by an Israeli vessel and being fired upon.

    I'm tired of this. The back and forth of the pot calling the kettle black. Us bickering solves nothing. I can agree to disagree. I'm actually glad Omen pulled the story from the BBC as opposed to an American source, but that's a whole other topic.
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    ever heard of the karine a? did you know hamas terrorists are hiding in hospitals dressed as doctors right now? that they use palestinian red crescent vehicles to tramsport weapons and wanted terrorists? that the unrwa is knowingly used as a front to cover for hamas members? that they've built hundreds of tunnels under the egyptian border for smuggling weapons, which are now hitting israeli cities? israel put a blockade on gaza for good reason, and allowing a ship to break the blockade would allow a hemmorhage of weapons into gaza, making the idfs job harder and endangering palestinian civilians even more, not to mention israelis.
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