What does natural bodybuilding mean to you?

Page 1 of 2 12 Last
  1. What does natural bodybuilding mean to you?


    Everything is relative. After joining this forum I began realizing what a nebulous term "natural" is. There are many different perspectives for what makes a natural lifter. For example, I was offended one day when my lifting buddy said he was natural and I'm a "supplement guy" when someone asked us about our habits. I take glutamine and whey protien isolate, and I always thought of myself as natural. But I could see that in his eyes, that isn't natural, whole foods. He's quite the purist.

    I've also noticed many folks here have their own standards. For example, I personally don't consider ephedrine natural, but noticed plenty of folks discussing it in the natural bodybuilding subforum.

    So, is there and accepted and agreed upon definition of natural bodybuilding? If not, what does natural mean to you? Where do you draw the line?

    For me, I am OK with protien, bcaas and vitamins. Too much past that I don't consider natural anymore, but who the f*ck am I?

    What does natural mean to you?


  2. What they can't detect from testing.

    j/k

    It's a good question. Natural is what is permitted to compete in a natural BB competition.

    I'm pretty sure you are safe and your buddy is a bit too pedantic.
    VEIN NUTRITION - PREMIUM BODYBUILDING SUPPLEMENTS
    CLICK ME > VEIN NUTRITION : USE "JUST410" for 10% OFF
    IG: @VeinNutrition
    •   
       


  3. Yeah he sounds like a natural purist just being difficult lol. In my opinion natural means that you have never used anything hormonal. I would even go as far as to say that if you've been off gear for an extended period of time (like maybe 3 or more years) I would probably still consider you natural. My thinking is that once you are off for that long, you will probably just return to your max genetic potential. Whereas cycling allows one to surpass the body's "natural" genetic limitations. Maybe this is a flawed view but oh well. I also consider ephedrine still natural. You could for sure achieve the same body fat levels without it, it just speeds up the fat loss rate in my opinion.

  4. Quote Originally Posted by TNlifting View Post
    Yeah he sounds like a natural purist just being difficult lol. In my opinion natural means that you have never used anything hormonal. I would even go as far as to say that if you've been off gear for an extended period of time (like maybe 3 or more years) I would probably still consider you natural. My thinking is that once you are off for that long, you will probably just return to your max genetic potential. Whereas cycling allows one to surpass the body's "natural" genetic limitations. Maybe this is a flawed view but oh well. I also consider ephedrine still natural. You could for sure achieve the same body fat levels without it, it just speeds up the fat loss rate in my opinion.
    Thanks for the great response! I appreciate hearing the logic and think you make some good points. I like how hormonal gear is the line you drew as it is pretty objective.

    A comment/question: You mention natural being where you are at your max genetic potential and that ephedrine doesn't take one past that.

    How does one know they could have achieved the same results without ephedrine? Or myself without glutamine for that matter, in the eyes of my training buddy.

    Or another example: there are plenty of folks who have used roids but not surpassed genetic potential due to not having put in the work over time, which is the main ingredient to any physique. How does one know their "natural" training potential if they haven't maxed it out before trying less natural methods?

    Anyways, thanks again for the great response! I hope to hear more people share.

  5. Quote Originally Posted by justhere4comm View Post
    What they can't detect from testing.

    j/k

    It's a good question. Natural is what is permitted to compete in a natural BB competition.

    I'm pretty sure you are safe and your buddy is a bit too pedantic.
    Lol, my buddy just likes to give me a hard time cuz I constantly talk **** to him like it's my job I'm more interested in hearing others personal philosophies on the matter. Besides, I've got him on vitamins now anyways, so he's losing his natty card! Lol.
    •   
       


  6. Quote Originally Posted by Fasted View Post

    A comment/question: You mention natural being where you are at your max genetic potential and that ephedrine doesn't take one past that.

    How does one know they could have achieved the same results without ephedrine? Or myself without glutamine for that matter, in the eyes of my training buddy.

    Or another example: there are plenty of folks who have used roids but not surpassed genetic potential due to not having put in the work over time, which is the main ingredient to any physique. How does one know their "natural" training potential if they haven't maxed it out before trying less natural methods?
    To answer your question, ephedrine is simply a fat burner. It will speed up the rate of fat loss. but I know that if someone's diet was very on point and they were consistent with it, they could still reach the same body fat levels (say 7%) without it, but it would probably take longer. I consider it natural because despite whatever difference it makes, you could still achieve the same end result without it if you work hard enough. Whereas someone who has never used steroids simply will not look like someone who does use them no matter how hard they try (assuming diet and training are on point for both individuals).

    To answer your second question, it's very difficult to determine ones natural potential as genetics are obviously different for each individual. It takes a lot of guesswork and speculation and few people will ever be able to be 100% certain of what they can achieve naturally because most get frustrated with the slow progress of training natty and just hop on gear at some point. But just for kicks, take myself for example. I am 5'6" and currently weigh ~ 157lbs and am ~15% body fat. I naturally have a smaller frame and lightning fast metabolism, so I know that I will never be able to get to 200lbs lean. Now 170lbs lean is another story. I know my body, and I know how I respond to training, and if I had to take an educated guess, I would say that 170lbs at around 10% body fat would be very near my natural potential. Keep in mind though this is all jus speculation and to be taken with a grain of salt. Bottom line is, don't let any concerns about what your natural potential is drive you crazy because odds are you haven't achieved it. Just train hard and eat right and if at some point you want to use gear, that is a personal decision one has to make for themselves.

  7. Awesome question, and I appreciate the previous responses. Its definitely a hard question to answer, especially now with prohormones and natural anabolic products flooding the market. The term 'natural' is clear as mud.

    My personal take on the term 'natural' include any products that are not exogenous hormones, or products that convert to hormones in the body (prohormones). In my opinion, even a product that is studied to increase natural testosterone production naturally is a natural product. If it isn't a steroid derivative that is converting to a hormone in the body, then I don't see it being unnatural.

    With that being said, I would consider ephedrine a natural supplement, but that is a very trick example. Even clenbuterol, although its illegal, still doesn't flag as an unnatural product IMO. To each his own, but that's my personal stance on the matter.
    Performax Labs Online Company Rep
    Facebook.com/pmaxlabs
    www.PerformaxLabs.com

  8. Agreed. Tough question. I actually kind of agree with @justhere4comm sarcastic answer at the beginning. If it's not on WADA's, NCAA's, etc's list, then it's good to go! Even that stance for me is somewhat pragmatic and driven by necessity rather than philosophy. Purely philosophically speaking, where can we actually draw the line in the modern world? We are all a lot taller and bigger than our ancient ancestors. Even our not so ancient ones. Why? Modern agriculture, immunizations, pharmacology, etc. all of which are not "natural". In my mind, humans are tool makers. The ultimate ones really. We are always looking to enhance performance whether it be new shoes, better training techniques or better molecules. That's what comes "natural" to us as a species. But alas, that is not the viewpoint of the world's various governing bodies. Therefore, if it's not on the list, it's "natural" ;-)
    Name:  ImageUploadedByAnabolicMinds1482361820.158036.jpg
Views: 297
Size:  92.1 KB

  9. Quote Originally Posted by Fasted View Post
    Everything is relative. After joining this forum I began realizing what a nebulous term "natural" is. There are many different perspectives for what makes a natural lifter. For example, I was offended one day when my lifting buddy said he was natural and I'm a "supplement guy" when someone asked us about our habits. I take glutamine and whey protien isolate, and I always thought of myself as natural. But I could see that in his eyes, that isn't natural, whole foods. He's quite the purist.

    I've also noticed many folks here have their own standards. For example, I personally don't consider ephedrine natural, but noticed plenty of folks discussing it in the natural bodybuilding subforum.

    So, is there and accepted and agreed upon definition of natural bodybuilding? If not, what does natural mean to you? Where do you draw the line?

    For me, I am OK with protien, bcaas and vitamins. Too much past that I don't consider natural anymore, but who the f*ck am I?

    What does natural mean to you?
    It sounds to me as if your friend is somewhat jealous of your gains or of your progress being better than his. I could be wrong though.
    ARA/ Evomuse Log.... Follow and laugh at my mediocre results http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/282586-evomuse-ara-log.html#post5403818

  10. not being on anything hormonal. not even trt. I used to be natural and I got big and strong naturally without any hormne. I started competing in a naty NGa organization and found out the competitors were using prohormones, etc anything that was over the counter and legal, alot more was legal in 2009, when I competed so i just switched to the NPC and used legal prohormones. Could I kept doing NGA? yes but I didnt really feel right about it since the rules were so ambiguous
    Millennium Sport Technologies Representative
    Mind and Muscle Code AM10
    Classic Physique competitor, Facebook- Great Physique Fitness, Online coaching

  11. Quote Originally Posted by banjobounce View Post
    It sounds to me as if your friend is somewhat jealous of your gains or of your progress being better than his. I could be wrong though.
    Oh, I wish that was true. I'm quite happy with my progress, but my bro is way big. He's got freaky genetics, I feel so much bigger when I go to the gym without him. I taught him how to lift and used to explain things to him like "it's mental, develop your mind muscle connection" but it turns out I created a monster. But I still beat him on bodyweight stuff We are all limited by our genetics to some degree. He gets huge super easy, but has been making zero progress so far on his cut. One of these days I'll have to post some pics of us. I think I've got enough posts for pics now.

    Both me and my buddy believe that being as natural as possible can benefit a person greatly because we feel unnatural/synthetic things may interfere with the bodies ability to function the way it developed to function. So for example, supplementing melatonin regularly may signal your body that it doesn't need to make its own melatonin.

    For myself it is also part of the fitness experiment experience. I want to see what my body is capable of. There are so many people claiming natty and observers can only guess the truth. We've all heard people claiming physiques as "unrealistic" that most could achieve with work and dedication. We also know there are people roided up claiming natty and full if **it. So how do you learn what works? By testing your own body over time, you get to know what you can achieve and every variable along the way. My buddy has blown up like a balloon. He gets told regularly he's on roids and we laugh cuz he's Mr. Purity.

    At the end of the day, every body is unique. Being as natural as possible is the price I pay to see what I am truly capable of. I also don't judge people if they have a less natural lifestyle. I just want folks to be honest about what they do. If you are on roids, just don't claim natty. Or be honest about what natural is to you. If someone is on ephedrine and tells me they are cutting and lost x amount of weight in x amount of time, knowing they were on ephedrine allows me to note I may not achieve those results as quickly since I am not. If I don't know I might feel I'm doing something wrong with my cut and go crazy trying to figure out what's not right.

    But I don't judge anyone on how they do this as long as they're honest. We are all our own experiment and that's what's the coolest part. But the less honest people are about their own experiment, the less I can learn from them.

  12. Quote Originally Posted by John Smeton View Post
    not being on anything hormonal. not even trt. I used to be natural and I got big and strong naturally without any hormne. I started competing in a naty NGa organization and found out the competitors were using prohormones, etc anything that was over the counter and legal, alot more was legal in 2009, when I competed so i just switched to the NPC and used legal prohormones. Could I kept doing NGA? yes but I didnt really feel right about it since the rules were so ambiguous
    That's awesome. My previous post explains how I respect people being honest about their habits for the benefit of the whole fitness community. If people in bodybuilding shows claim not to use substances that they do it misinforms the entire community about what is achievable. That is why so many folks don't know what can truly be achieved. The folks who lie about what they use hurt the community as a whole.

  13. Quote Originally Posted by Fasted View Post
    Everything is relative. After joining this forum I began realizing what a nebulous term "natural" is. There are many different perspectives for what makes a natural lifter. For example, I was offended one day when my lifting buddy said he was natural and I'm a "supplement guy" when someone asked us about our habits. I take glutamine and whey protien isolate, and I always thought of myself as natural. But I could see that in his eyes, that isn't natural, whole foods. He's quite the purist.

    I've also noticed many folks here have their own standards. For example, I personally don't consider ephedrine natural, but noticed plenty of folks discussing it in the natural bodybuilding subforum.

    So, is there and accepted and agreed upon definition of natural bodybuilding? If not, what does natural mean to you? Where do you draw the line?

    For me, I am OK with protien, bcaas and vitamins. Too much past that I don't consider natural anymore, but who the f*ck am I?

    What does natural mean to you?
    IMHO nowadays nobody is a "REL NATTY" let me explain you why. Some use of used phs, other sarms peptides,andros or low dose of aas, even a strong pwo (with dmaa, amp or any strong stims) is not natty because it will enhance your NATURAL performance.

    It's tough today to be a clean natty guy. BTW I didn't say that's impossible but I'm sure that even the most dedicated guy will take something to enhance his body some time soon.

    Natty to me means that you don't take anything that will enhance your natural performance(recovery,strenght endurance) drastically (hormonal or not)

  14. This is a great question/debate. I've heard many say natural bodybuilding requires not manipulating your hormones or taking banned substances. That's tricky, because you can manipulate your hormones with many currently legal substances. Also, what's legal today might be illegal tomorrow. For me, I hate to hear that "natural bodybuilders" are taking prohormones. I had this friend once back in school who claimed he was natty. "No steroids" he said. Yet he cycled M1T like every month because you could buy it legally back then. He went to from 220 to 260 in a year's time, was built like a brick ****house, but he was considered "natty" by many. So in my opinion, anything beyond the staple supps, you know the usual suspects that you'd read about on Bodybuilding.com, probably isn't natty. That's just my opinion tho.

  15. Natural is generally just off pharmaceutical grade products such as steroids/GH/SARMs etc.

    "Natural" more broadly is just what self-righteous gym novices with 14 inch arms on youtube obsess about, meanwhile they're taking the supplement laundry list of creatine/whey/pre-workout crack blend/beta alanine/ etc. etc.

  16. Quote Originally Posted by Justlooking5 View Post
    Natural is generally just off pharmaceutical grade products such as steroids/GH/SARMs etc.

    "Natural" more broadly is just what self-righteous gym novices with 14 inch arms on youtube obsess about, meanwhile they're taking the supplement laundry list of creatine/whey/pre-workout crack blend/beta alanine/ etc. etc.
    Plenty of beastly natties out there. Just very few believe their natty cuz everyone is so quick to cycle. Lots of scrawny dudes cycling too. If natties not for you, do your thing. But don't hate on the natties. Plenty folks get very strong natty.

  17. Quote Originally Posted by Justlooking5 View Post
    Natural is generally just off pharmaceutical grade products such as steroids/GH/SARMs etc.

    "Natural" more broadly is just what self-righteous gym novices with 14 inch arms on youtube obsess about, meanwhile they're taking the supplement laundry list of creatine/whey/pre-workout crack blend/beta alanine/ etc. etc.
    So if I take UGL grade test and tren I'm still natty?
    Olympus Labs Demigod
    PM me with any Olympus Labs questions
    Use Code WOODY30 for 30% off your order at www.Olympus-Labs.com

  18. Quote Originally Posted by Lucianooo View Post
    IMHO nowadays nobody is a "REL NATTY" let me explain you why. Some use of used phs, other sarms peptides,andros or low dose of aas, even a strong pwo (with dmaa, amp or any strong stims) is not natty because it will enhance your NATURAL performance.

    It's tough today to be a clean natty guy. BTW I didn't say that's impossible but I'm sure that even the most dedicated guy will take something to enhance his body some time soon.

    Natty to me means that you don't take anything that will enhance your natural performance(recovery,strenght endurance) drastically (hormonal or not)
    I agree if your muscles were not built entirely on your own hormone production you're not natty. That's regardless of whether you built and lost your gains after a steroid cycle as muscle memory is still an advantage you take away from a cycle. You get these guys who'll point at their arms and claim they built their guns naturally just because they've been off the juice for a couple years.

    Obviously level of assistance is going to play a part in determining how much effort you've had to put in on your own part.

  19. Quote Originally Posted by Lucianooo View Post
    IMHO nowadays nobody is a "REL NATTY" let me explain you why. Some use of used phs, other sarms peptides,andros or low dose of aas, even a strong pwo (with dmaa, amp or any strong stims) is not natty because it will enhance your NATURAL performance.

    It's tough today to be a clean natty guy. BTW I didn't say that's impossible but I'm sure that even the most dedicated guy will take something to enhance his body some time soon.

    Natty to me means that you don't take anything that will enhance your natural performance(recovery,strenght endurance) drastically (hormonal or not)
    Interesting question that permeates most sports, has done and will continue to do so for years. In mountaineering there is debate as to whether Diamox, a prescription medicine, taken to delay the onset of Acute Mountain Sickness and thereby enhance performance would render a mountaineer non-natural. Taking this debate to an extreme, would the use of supplemental oxygen render anyone non-natural? its use certainly enables many mountaineers to achieve what would otherwise be out of their reach. Everest, 4469 summits with supplemental oxygen vs 197 summits without, approx 2.5%.

  20. To me, NOT using anything hormonal or that plays with any hormonal levels. Maybe not even using OTC Test boosters since they could have an effect, albeit maybe not very powerful.

  21. Quote Originally Posted by Georgiepecker View Post
    To me, NOT using anything hormonal or that plays with any hormonal levels. Maybe not even using OTC Test boosters since they could have an effect, albeit maybe not very powerful.
    They still won't raise your testosterone to supraphysiological levels though.

    I think any sort of exogenous hormone use (sarms, AAS, GH, insulin) would disqualify someone as natural. Also the use of things like erythropoietin and SEO.
    Training & everything else log: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/275307-bam-bam-goes-30.html

  22. Quote Originally Posted by BamBam0319 View Post
    They still won't raise your testosterone to supraphysiological levels though.

    I think any sort of exogenous hormone use (sarms, AAS, GH, insulin) would disqualify someone as natural. Also the use of things like erythropoietin and SEO.
    So TRT of 100mg a week would not be natural in your eyes right? I know generally that won't get you out of supraphysiological levels and I have never thought about whether it should be considered natural or not. For example if your body had an injury and could only produce 150ng/dl of test, should taking 100mg a week classify you as not natural?

  23. Quote Originally Posted by Georgiepecker View Post
    So TRT of 100mg a week would not be ok in your eyes? I know generally that won't get you out of supraphysiological levels and I have never thought about whether it should be considered natural or not. For example if your body had an injury and could only produce 150ng/dl of test, should taking 100mg a week classify you as not natural?
    Good question. I'm not sure what I think about TRT. I guess as long as you're still within normal human plasma levels then you'd still be "natural."
    Training & everything else log: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/275307-bam-bam-goes-30.html

  24. Quote Originally Posted by BamBam0319 View Post
    Good question. I'm not sure what I think about TRT. I guess as long as you're still within normal human plasma levels then you'd still be "natural."
    I feel like having a constant peak level of test 24/7 however is a big advantage to a fluctuating normal level. I am on TRT but am not sure what I think myself even.

  25. Quote Originally Posted by Georgiepecker View Post
    I feel like having a constant peak level of test 24/7 however is a big advantage to a fluctuating normal level. I am on TRT but am not sure what I think myself even.
    Well you'll still peak and drop between pins, especially if you only do one shot a week.
    Training & everything else log: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/275307-bam-bam-goes-30.html
  •   

      
     

Similar Forum Threads

  1. stim junkie what does it mean to you
    By mixedup in forum General Chat
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 12-26-2010, 09:31 PM
  2. Women and the Cold Shoulder: What does it mean to YOU?
    By Irish Cannon in forum General Chat
    Replies: 36
    Last Post: 11-21-2009, 12:39 PM
  3. What does the + sign mean by peoples name?
    By TheMyth in forum General Chat
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 08-05-2007, 11:59 PM
  4. what bf% does this guy look to you
    By mixedup in forum Pics
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 07-12-2006, 10:31 PM
  5. what does protein combustion mean?
    By OmarJackson in forum Supplements
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 03-26-2004, 06:35 PM
Log in
Log in