Lifts to size correalation

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    Lifts to size correalation


    Why the hell are there guys in the gym benchin like 20lbs more then me but are so much bigger....


    Im eatin a ****load sleeping a lot and training hard and im gaining weight... Just not seein a chest difference
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    maybe they've been training longer?? How strong is your bench press? If not that great work on gaining strength! If you for example can bench press 100 for 5-8reps, your chest will be significantly bigger if your work your way up to benching 150+ for 5-8reps.

    If you already have a very strong bench, well then theres other factors we need to look more closely at like training program/diet/body stats ect ect.
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    I bench 100 3set 10 reps

    Then i do a little less on incline 3set 10reps

    And like 80lbs on decline 3set 10rep

    And i mix all that with hammer chest press and puhups on chest day

    Alone with arms
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    Its boils down to experimenting also man. Trial and error! for example reducing the overall volume and hitting chest twice a week. One day heavy 5reps the next chest session moderate weight 8-12. You could reduce rep range and start progressing on your lifts a little faster by using heavier weight lower reps, hows your form hand placement when pressing, maybe your grips wrong and your not targeting the chest completely, the list goes on
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    what are you stats? 100lbs is not that impressive at all. Also, do you know what those other guy's program's are like?

    I bench 225x5 on my power days, but on my hypertrophy days, I am only flat benching 155x8-12 simply because I do incline first, then reverse grip second, and flat bench third. By the time I get to flat bench, I'm already tired and worn out.
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    I'm not sure what my barbell bench is, because I only use dumbbells I'm currently 137lbs and I bench 65lb dumbbells 130lbs for 10reps.
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    Quote Originally Posted by gaijininjapan
    what are you stats? 100lbs is not that impressive at all. Also, do you know what those other guy's program's are like?

    I bench 225x5 on my power days, but on my hypertrophy days, I am only flat benching 155x8-12 simply because I do incline first, then reverse grip second, and flat bench third. By the time I get to flat bench, I'm already tired and worn out.
    If he is lifting to impress someone with the little # on the side of the db he can forget getting any bigger. Id rather see a guy pressing the bucks with proper form and control for 10 than a guy flailing the 150's for 6 with spotters under each elbow. Their longevity in the gym is usually brief. Weight is for show and form is for grow. There is also much to be said about one that combine the 2.
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    what's to be said about the one who combines the two?

    I love how squatting a D/L large numbers for my size prevents ppl from interrupting my workouts, or even asking me if I'm going to use "that plate" or "those collars"
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    I have trouble growing my chest too.

    Although to go back to your original question as I understand it - why is that other guy benching only 20lb more than you but is a lot bigger - some people are strong for their size, maybe you are one of those?

    Would you rather look stronger than you are? Or be stronger than you look

    Either way, the advice is right, keep good form, build up the weight you lift, eat lots of good food, get lots of sleep.

    As you get stronger, you will get bigger. Good luck man (and don't forget to enjoy it)
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    Quote Originally Posted by gaijininjapan
    what's to be said about the one who combines the two?
    If he's doing it with proper form and control, I couldn't say enough about him. HE'S A BEAST for starters.

    The guys he are suggesting sound to be much larger but not much stronger. So either the op is strong for his size or these "guys" aren't as strong for theirs. Pound for pound he's got them. It might be that the op has a denser and harder physique than the boys swoll up on creatine,water weight and no telling that appear to be bigger but not a whole lot stronger. I see this alot in the gym. There is also a point in there where it starts taking a lot more muscle mass to break lifting ceilings. I've seen guys weigh in the 180 range put up 365 and guys weigh 220 do good to put up 8 plates. Which guy is really stronger? The guy pressing 405, or the guy pressing twice his body weight? I've always been more impressed with the latter. To me the guy weighing 220 would need to be pressing 445 to be as strong.
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    Quote Originally Posted by djmikeyspikes View Post
    Why the hell are there guys in the gym benchin like 20lbs more then me but are so much bigger....
    Could be due to a lot of thinks like better diets, better genetics, more calories, more rest, better training, etc.

    Genetics play a huge roll.

    For example I'm not "huge" but I have deadlifted 600 and benched 400 before at 245lbs. I'm not down to 220 and can bench 375 and can deadlift 575. Usually once a person gets their lifts high up durin ga real good bulk, then after they cut down they can maintain their appearance even after losing weight and strength.
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    Quote Originally Posted by djmikeyspikes View Post
    Why the hell are there guys in the gym benchin like 20lbs more then me but are so much bigger....


    Im eatin a ****load sleeping a lot and training hard and im gaining weight... Just not seein a chest difference
    Some people's structure / cns are built for strong pressing.

    Don't worry about other people, worrying about other people will stress you out and detract from your performance. (obviously it did, you even made this thread about it)

    Now your looking for chest "growth" or a big bench press? Gota be more specific with your training.

    If your looking for chest "growth", dont worry about how much your pressing, forget the "progressive overload" theory for now.

    On your pressing movements, on the negative drive your hands inward on the barbell, obviously your hands won't come together, instead your chest will contract. Do that on the negative and your chest will stretch.

    Once you feel a stretch in your pecs, control the weight back up then immediately back down, keep that tension on the pecs for around 30-50 seconds. That amount of time is the amount of time under tension that needs to be present in order for your CNS to optimally work as a "Anabolic Machine" for your goals. In this case we want hypertrophy.

    Obviously I can go more "in depth" with this but I would be here for ever.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheHardOne View Post
    Some people's structure / cns are built for strong pressing.
    Agree.

    Now your looking for chest "growth" or a big bench press? Gota be more specific with your training.
    Chest growth will depend on his calories. Getting a big bench press and expanding his calories will lead to both growth and strength.

    Person A- eats tons of calories and uses progressive overload; growth is inevitable.
    Person B- eats a little bit and uses progressive overload; growth is not likely to occur, but the CNS will teach the muscle that the person alread has to generate force more efficiently - more motor unit activation, delayed stretch from the Golgi Tendon organ, etc. lightweight powerlifter style training.

    You suggest that hypertrophy and strength specific without hypertrophy is separated by tempo while this is inaccurate. Hypertrophy and strength specific without hypertrophy is separated by the amount of calories the person consumes necessary to aid in the growth of the hypertrophy.

    If your looking for chest "growth", dont worry about how much your pressing, forget the "progressive overload" theory for now.
    Bad advice. Progressive overload is not a "theory" but is a form of forcing muscular growth through never letting the muscle adapt to a specific stimulus in pounds, volume, tempo or selection. Progressive overload and lots of calories is how hypertrophy is structured.

    Success from progressive overload with famous routines are often in many forms, example: linear progressive resistance, linear periodization, etc. One way or another you gotta make the next workout better than the last or you gave your body no reason to grow.

    On your pressing movements, on the negative drive your hands inward on the barbell, obviously your hands won't come together, instead your chest will contract. Do that on the negative and your chest will stretch.

    Once you feel a stretch in your pecs, control the weight back up then immediately back down, keep that tension on the pecs for around 30-50 seconds. That amount of time is the amount of time under tension that needs to be present in order for your CNS to optimally work as a "Anabolic Machine" for your goals. In this case we want hypertrophy.
    Don't see where you're going with this either. You can do your TUT 15-50 second eccentric/concentric phase with the bar all day long but it ain't gonna mean nothing. You need weight on the bar in order for it to count. There's a reason programs with the principles of progressive overload are so successful. You think hypertrophy is all in the technique and TUT but you are wrong. Hypertrophy is all about progressive overload and good nutrition.

    Not to mention there are two forms of hypertrophy, myofibrillar and sarcoplasmic and both are generally stimulated differently than the other.

    Myofibrillar Hypertrophy
    Myofibrillar hypertrophy, on the other hand, is an enlargement of the muscle fiber as it gains more myofibrils, which contract and generate tension in the muscle. With this type of hypertrophy, the area density of myofibrils increases and there is a significantly greater ability to exert muscular strength (2). This type of hypertrophy is best accomplished by training with heavy weights for low reps (3).

    Sarcoplasmic Hypertrophy
    Sarcoplasmic hypertrophy is an increase in the volume of the non-contractile muscle cell fluid, sarcoplasm. This fluid accounts for 25-30% of the muscle’s size. Although the cross sectional area of the muscle increases, the density of muscle fibers per unit area decreases, and there is no increase in muscular strength (2). This type of hypertrophy is mainly a result of high rep, “bodybuilder-type” training (3).
    Also sounds to me like you're going to train your Type IIA fibers more than your Type I or Type IIB with your presented method. Slow reps with no weight is just going to cause a lactic acid "pump".
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingk0ng View Post
    Agree.



    Chest growth will depend on his calories. Getting a big bench press and expanding his calories will lead to both growth and strength.

    Person A- eats tons of calories and uses progressive overload; growth is inevitable.
    Person B- eats a little bit and uses progressive overload; growth is not likely to occur, but the CNS will teach the muscle that the person alread has to generate force more efficiently - more motor unit activation, delayed stretch from the Golgi Tendon organ, etc. lightweight powerlifter style training.

    You suggest that hypertrophy and strength specific without hypertrophy is separated by tempo while this is inaccurate. Hypertrophy and strength specific without hypertrophy is separated by the amount of calories the person consumes necessary to aid in the growth of the hypertrophy.



    Bad advice. Progressive overload is not a "theory" but is a form of forcing muscular growth through never letting the muscle adapt to a specific stimulus in pounds, volume, tempo or selection. Progressive overload and lots of calories is how hypertrophy is structured.

    Success from progressive overload with famous routines are often in many forms, example: linear progressive resistance, linear periodization, etc. One way or another you gotta make the next workout better than the last or you gave your body no reason to grow.



    Don't see where you're going with this either. You can do your TUT 15-50 second eccentric/concentric phase with the bar all day long but it ain't gonna mean nothing. You need weight on the bar in order for it to count. There's a reason programs with the principles of progressive overload are so successful. You think hypertrophy is all in the technique and TUT but you are wrong. Hypertrophy is all about progressive overload and good nutrition.

    Not to mention there are two forms of hypertrophy, myofibrillar and sarcoplasmic and both are generally stimulated differently than the other.



    Also sounds to me like you're going to train your Type IIA fibers more than your Type I or Type IIB with your presented method. Slow reps with no weight is just going to cause a lactic acid "pump".
    LOL

    1)Your body has no idea how much overall calories its being given. Its how much and when you give it amino acids and carbohydrates/fats. "Timing"

    2)LOL even more.

    3)Bro....progressive overload for a beginner is just going to result in the beginner lifting with horrible form, not emphasizing the negative, not emphasizing "constant tension" on the targeted muscle.

    4)Whats with your tons of "calories" theory? haha Your body doesn't work that way my friend.

    5)Bodybuilding is all about making your body more "receptive" to nutrients, so we (bodybuilders) try to enhance our protein synthesis rate, insulin sensitivity, fat metabolism. You can eat 4000 calories and not gain a single pound of muscle. Your training/nutrition/hormone levels will dictate your protein synthesis / insulin sensitivity / fat metabolism. If those are on point, your calories WILL go towards your goals if taken at the right "times" of course.

    6)Heres what you wrote...
    "Don't see where you're going with this either. You can do your TUT 15-50 second eccentric/concentric phase with the bar all day long but it ain't gonna mean nothing. You need weight on the bar in order for it to count. There's a reason programs with the principles of progressive overload are so successful. You think hypertrophy is all in the technique and TUT but you are wrong. Hypertrophy is all about progressive overload and good nutrition.

    Not to mention there are two forms of hypertrophy, myofibrillar and sarcoplasmic and both are generally stimulated differently than the other. "

    7)Dude...of course weight matters, my point was for the beginner to stop WORRYING about progressive overload because he's obviously not using optimal form for his structure. When your so worried about progressive overload you tend to get really loose with your form and stop focusing on the tension of the "TARGETED" muscle.

    8)Their are alot of things to learn in bodybuilding/powerlifting. Their are things that you shouldn't learn at such a young age, understand? If a youngster is focusing on progressive overload, every single week hes going to go in the gym and literally do ABSOLUTELY anything and everything just to beat his previous personal best. Meaning loose form, engaging your secondary muscles so much that their is little and interrupted tension on the targeted muscle.

    9)For various types of muscle fibers, I never discussed that.

    10)And training with a specific time under tension is just ONE WAY to train for hypertrophy. You should check out my CNS overload cycles when im using more Myofibrillar Hypertrophy type techniques, wicked stuff!

    Trying to keep this positive, can I ask you.....how mad are you when you read my post? Because you made some assumptions of what I do / believe in when you only read one post from me? My advice was some solid advice, ill stand by that.

    And I understand Obviously their is NO WAY in hell you will agree with me or have the "INTELLIGENCE" to realize what im trying to say. (or maybe im making assumptions of you? maybe your a cool dude? dunno.) I say that because I want to keep this positive.

    Also "tons of calories" is so generic. Gotta be more specific with that. Is "nutrient timing" the best way? Maybe. Possibly. But in the end its just another way. I just go by how the body functions.

    But what the hell do I know, I look like **** and I always fail my clients? (the sarcasm is strong in me!) hehe
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    Good try though bro, on other forum sites ive seen more ridiculous "disagreements" haha.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheHardOne View Post
    LOL

    1)Your body has no idea how much overall calories its being given. Its how much and when you give it amino acids and carbohydrates/fats. "Timing"
    Um, actually yes it does. It is either in an anabolic or catabolic state. Your body knows if it's starving. If it doesn't receive the nutrients it needs it goes into a catabolic state and begins breaking down muscle tissue. So moving on.....

    2)LOL even more.
    You can't find a better argument than "lol" you are making a fool out of yourself.

    3)Bro....progressive overload for a beginner is just going to result in the beginner lifting with horrible form, not emphasizing the negative, not emphasizing "constant tension" on the targeted muscle.
    LMAO. So Mark Rippetoe's starting strength program made famous by the principles of progressive resistance is going to result in a break in form? Funny you should say so, because the 10,000 people on this forum and others including myself NEVER broke their form on starting strength as a result of linear progression.

    Let me educate you on something....

    When you begin a linear based routine you start with light weight and focus on your form. You then program something called "motor pattern" and motor pattern is the process in which the peripheral nervous system sends impulses to the CNS through the spine to change its movements in accordance to the way you "program" your body to move. That is why you "program" good form and then begin adding weight while maintaining the practice on this form. You will not "break form"

    The "negative" phase of a lift in physiology is called the ECCENTRIC phase and this is when a muscle is LENGTHENING and not shortening. This is when gravity is assisting with the lift and you are NOT the motive force. You are resisting the weight and gravity is assisting with it. During the concentric phase, you are moving AGAINST gravity and the muscle begins to short and therefore exerts force upward involving the agonst and synergist muscles that perform the actual lift.

    4)Whats with your tons of "calories" theory? haha Your body doesn't work that way my friend.
    So your body doesn't use calories to build muscle? Did your mens health magazine tell you this or your "bro at the gym?"

    Lets see you gain LBM outside of a caloric surplus. I'm interested in seeing that.

    5)Bodybuilding is all about making your body more "receptive" to nutrients, so we (bodybuilders) try to enhance our protein synthesis rate, insulin sensitivity, fat metabolism. You can eat 4000 calories and not gain a single pound of muscle. Your training/nutrition/hormone levels will dictate your protein synthesis / insulin sensitivity / fat metabolism. If those are on point, your calories WILL go towards your goals if taken at the right "times" of course.
    You will not eat 4,000 calories a day and not gain a single pound of muscle. I know powerlifters that eat 4-5,000 calories per day of whatever they want when they want and gain arguably MORE muscle in a single cycle then your beloved bodybuilders that has nutritionists do their diets for them. Even when you gain fat your body will gain muscle with it since it puts extra stress on the body to carry yourself around.

    6)Heres what you wrote...
    "Don't see where you're going with this either. You can do your TUT 15-50 second eccentric/concentric phase with the bar all day long but it ain't gonna mean nothing. You need weight on the bar in order for it to count. There's a reason programs with the principles of progressive overload are so successful. You think hypertrophy is all in the technique and TUT but you are wrong. Hypertrophy is all about progressive overload and good nutrition.

    Not to mention there are two forms of hypertrophy, myofibrillar and sarcoplasmic and both are generally stimulated differently than the other. "

    7)Dude...of course weight matters, my point was for the beginner to stop WORRYING about progressive overload because he's obviously not using optimal form for his structure. When your so worried about progressive overload you tend to get really loose with your form and stop focusing on the tension of the "TARGETED" muscle.
    You do not break your form by using progressive overload. That is the most uneducated and ridiculous thing I have ever heard in my life. Like I said, learn what motor pattern is and you will see what I am talking about. You teach your body to move properly during exercise in the beginning of your lifting with light weight and then as you PROGRESS in the big lifts your form will stay the way you taught your body to lift.

    8)Their are alot of things to learn in bodybuilding/powerlifting. Their are things that you shouldn't learn at such a young age, understand? If a youngster is focusing on progressive overload, every single week hes going to go in the gym and literally do ABSOLUTELY anything and everything just to beat his previous personal best. Meaning loose form, engaging your secondary muscles so much that their is little and interrupted tension on the targeted muscle.
    You don't need to lose form and starting raising your butt of benches to increase linear loading.

    After overload, your CNS begins to activate previously inactive motor units inside of the muscle tissue that give you linear gains. Each and everytime you place progressive stress on the muscle, the nervous system in return activates more muscles and a higher % of those muscles.

    Just like dynamic "speed training" delays the Golgi Tendon Organs stretch reflex to the brain and allows you to exert a higher % of muscle fibers. This goes completely against your "theory" of TUT yet complies with progressive overload in increasing strength.

    9)For various types of muscle fibers, I never discussed that.
    Obviously. My statement was your TUT is going to train the IIA fibers more so than the rest. This is going to result in increasing your isometric contraction capability while failing to succeed in concentric and eccentric enhancement.

    Trying to keep this positive, can I ask you.....how mad are you when you read my post? Because you made some assumptions of what I do / believe in when you only read one post from me? My advice was some solid advice, ill stand by that.
    Stand on the wrong side of the street if you want to. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. I know my physiology and kinesiology. I've taken 2 years of exercise science in college as well as gotten certified through two of the highest accredited organizations there is. I'm not quite concerned with what you've been lead onto believe.

    I was not mad at all when I read your post. I've got a lot more in my life going on than what some random dude on a forum thinks about training.

    And I understand Obviously their is NO WAY in hell you will agree with me or have the "INTELLIGENCE" to realize what im trying to say. (or maybe im making assumptions of you? maybe your a cool dude? dunno.) I say that because I want to keep this positive.
    I'll keep any discussion positive. I won't personally attack you. I've never personally attacked anyone during a disagreement on this site or in person.

    Also "tons of calories" is so generic. Gotta be more specific with that. Is "nutrient timing" the best way? Maybe. Possibly. But in the end its just another way. I just go by how the body functions.
    Timing is important, but so are the total caloric consumption itself. You won't gain significant LBM during a caloric deficit as you would with a caloric surplus.

    But what the hell do I know, I look like **** and I always fail my clients? (the sarcasm is strong in me!) hehe
    I don't care what you look like. That doesn't have anything to do with understanding how your body works.

    You might consider looking up Mark Rippetoe, the author of starting strength. Linear progressive resistance was made by throughout the internet by his program. Why don't you ask how many people on this forum used his linear programming with success. If you don't give your body new reasons to grow each workout, you will not hypertrophy but homeostasis.
    Former Marine, UT-BSN, NSCA-CPT, NASM-CPT, CSCS
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheHardOne View Post
    LOL

    1)Your body has no idea how much overall calories its being given. Its how much and when you give it amino acids and carbohydrates/fats. "Timing"
    Um, actually yes it does. It is either in an anabolic or catabolic state. Your body knows if it's starving. If it doesn't receive the nutrients it needs it goes into a catabolic state and begins breaking down muscle tissue. So moving on.....

    2)LOL even more.
    You can't find a better argument than "lol" you are making a fool out of yourself.

    3)Bro....progressive overload for a beginner is just going to result in the beginner lifting with horrible form, not emphasizing the negative, not emphasizing "constant tension" on the targeted muscle.
    LMAO. So Mark Rippetoe's starting strength program made famous by the principles of progressive resistance is going to result in a break in form? Funny you should say so, because the 10,000 people on this forum and others including myself NEVER broke their form on starting strength as a result of linear progression.

    Let me educate you on something....

    When you begin a linear based routine you start with light weight and focus on your form. You then program something called "motor pattern" and motor pattern is the process in which the peripheral nervous system sends impulses to the CNS through the spine to change its movements in accordance to the way you "program" your body to move. That is why you "program" good form and then begin adding weight while maintaining the practice on this form. You will not "break form"

    The "negative" phase of a lift in physiology is called the ECCENTRIC phase and this is when a muscle is LENGTHENING and not shortening. This is when gravity is assisting with the lift and you are NOT the motive force. You are resisting the weight and gravity is assisting with it. During the concentric phase, you are moving AGAINST gravity and the muscle begins to short and therefore exerts force upward involving the agonst and synergist muscles that perform the actual lift.

    4)Whats with your tons of "calories" theory? haha Your body doesn't work that way my friend.
    So your body doesn't use calories to build muscle? Did your mens health magazine tell you this or your "bro at the gym?"

    Lets see you gain LBM outside of a caloric surplus. I'm interested in seeing that.

    5)Bodybuilding is all about making your body more "receptive" to nutrients, so we (bodybuilders) try to enhance our protein synthesis rate, insulin sensitivity, fat metabolism. You can eat 4000 calories and not gain a single pound of muscle. Your training/nutrition/hormone levels will dictate your protein synthesis / insulin sensitivity / fat metabolism. If those are on point, your calories WILL go towards your goals if taken at the right "times" of course.
    You will not eat 4,000 calories a day and not gain a single pound of muscle. I know powerlifters that eat 4-5,000 calories per day of whatever they want when they want and gain arguably MORE muscle in a single cycle then your beloved bodybuilders that has nutritionists do their diets for them. Even when you gain fat your body will gain muscle with it since it puts extra stress on the body to carry yourself around.

    6)Heres what you wrote...
    "Don't see where you're going with this either. You can do your TUT 15-50 second eccentric/concentric phase with the bar all day long but it ain't gonna mean nothing. You need weight on the bar in order for it to count. There's a reason programs with the principles of progressive overload are so successful. You think hypertrophy is all in the technique and TUT but you are wrong. Hypertrophy is all about progressive overload and good nutrition.

    Not to mention there are two forms of hypertrophy, myofibrillar and sarcoplasmic and both are generally stimulated differently than the other. "

    7)Dude...of course weight matters, my point was for the beginner to stop WORRYING about progressive overload because he's obviously not using optimal form for his structure. When your so worried about progressive overload you tend to get really loose with your form and stop focusing on the tension of the "TARGETED" muscle.
    You do not break your form by using progressive overload. That is the most uneducated and ridiculous thing I have ever heard in my life. Like I said, learn what motor pattern is and you will see what I am talking about. You teach your body to move properly during exercise in the beginning of your lifting with light weight and then as you PROGRESS in the big lifts your form will stay the way you taught your body to lift.

    8)Their are alot of things to learn in bodybuilding/powerlifting. Their are things that you shouldn't learn at such a young age, understand? If a youngster is focusing on progressive overload, every single week hes going to go in the gym and literally do ABSOLUTELY anything and everything just to beat his previous personal best. Meaning loose form, engaging your secondary muscles so much that their is little and interrupted tension on the targeted muscle.
    You don't need to lose form and starting raising your butt of benches to increase linear loading.

    After overload, your CNS begins to activate previously inactive motor units inside of the muscle tissue that give you linear gains. Each and everytime you place progressive stress on the muscle, the nervous system in return activates more muscles and a higher % of those muscles.

    Just like dynamic "speed training" delays the Golgi Tendon Organs stretch reflex to the brain and allows you to exert a higher % of muscle fibers. This goes completely against your "theory" of TUT yet complies with progressive overload in increasing strength.

    9)For various types of muscle fibers, I never discussed that.
    Obviously. My statement was your TUT is going to train the IIA fibers more so than the rest. This is going to result in increasing your isometric contraction capability while failing to succeed in concentric and eccentric enhancement.

    Trying to keep this positive, can I ask you.....how mad are you when you read my post? Because you made some assumptions of what I do / believe in when you only read one post from me? My advice was some solid advice, ill stand by that.
    Stand on the wrong side of the street if you want to. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. I know my physiology and kinesiology. I've taken 2 years of exercise science in college as well as gotten certified through two of the highest accredited organizations there is. I'm not quite concerned with what you've been lead onto believe.

    I was not mad at all when I read your post. I've got a lot more in my life going on than what some random dude on a forum thinks about training.

    And I understand Obviously their is NO WAY in hell you will agree with me or have the "INTELLIGENCE" to realize what im trying to say. (or maybe im making assumptions of you? maybe your a cool dude? dunno.) I say that because I want to keep this positive.
    I'll keep any discussion positive. I won't personally attack you. I've never personally attacked anyone during a disagreement on this site or in person.

    Also "tons of calories" is so generic. Gotta be more specific with that. Is "nutrient timing" the best way? Maybe. Possibly. But in the end its just another way. I just go by how the body functions.
    Timing is important, but so are the total caloric consumption itself. You won't gain significant LBM during a caloric deficit as you would with a caloric surplus.

    But what the hell do I know, I look like **** and I always fail my clients? (the sarcasm is strong in me!) hehe
    I don't care what you look like. That doesn't have anything to do with understanding how your body works.

    You might consider looking up Mark Rippetoe, the author of starting strength. Linear progressive resistance was made by throughout the internet by his program. Why don't you ask how many people on this forum used his linear programming with success. If you don't give your body new reasons to grow each workout, you will not hypertrophy but homeostasis.
    Former Marine, UT-BSN, NSCA-CPT, NASM-CPT, CSCS
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingk0ng View Post
    Um, actually yes it does. It is either in an anabolic or catabolic state. Your body knows if it's starving. If it doesn't receive the nutrients it needs it goes into a catabolic state and begins breaking down muscle tissue. So moving on.....



    You can't find a better argument than "lol" you are making a fool out of yourself.



    LMAO. So Mark Rippetoe's starting strength program made famous by the principles of progressive resistance is going to result in a break in form? Funny you should say so, because the 10,000 people on this forum and others including myself NEVER broke their form on starting strength as a result of linear progression.

    Let me educate you on something....

    When you begin a linear based routine you start with light weight and focus on your form. You then program something called "motor pattern" and motor pattern is the process in which the peripheral nervous system sends impulses to the CNS through the spine to change its movements in accordance to the way you "program" your body to move. That is why you "program" good form and then begin adding weight while maintaining the practice on this form. You will not "break form"

    The "negative" phase of a lift in physiology is called the ECCENTRIC phase and this is when a muscle is LENGTHENING and not shortening. This is when gravity is assisting with the lift and you are NOT the motive force. You are resisting the weight and gravity is assisting with it. During the concentric phase, you are moving AGAINST gravity and the muscle begins to short and therefore exerts force upward involving the agonst and synergist muscles that perform the actual lift.



    So your body doesn't use calories to build muscle? Did your mens health magazine tell you this or your "bro at the gym?"

    Lets see you gain LBM outside of a caloric surplus. I'm interested in seeing that.



    You will not eat 4,000 calories a day and not gain a single pound of muscle. I know powerlifters that eat 4-5,000 calories per day of whatever they want when they want and gain arguably MORE muscle in a single cycle then your beloved bodybuilders that has nutritionists do their diets for them. Even when you gain fat your body will gain muscle with it since it puts extra stress on the body to carry yourself around.



    You do not break your form by using progressive overload. That is the most uneducated and ridiculous thing I have ever heard in my life. Like I said, learn what motor pattern is and you will see what I am talking about. You teach your body to move properly during exercise in the beginning of your lifting with light weight and then as you PROGRESS in the big lifts your form will stay the way you taught your body to lift.



    You don't need to lose form and starting raising your butt of benches to increase linear loading.

    After overload, your CNS begins to activate previously inactive motor units inside of the muscle tissue that give you linear gains. Each and everytime you place progressive stress on the muscle, the nervous system in return activates more muscles and a higher % of those muscles.

    Just like dynamic "speed training" delays the Golgi Tendon Organs stretch reflex to the brain and allows you to exert a higher % of muscle fibers. This goes completely against your "theory" of TUT yet complies with progressive overload in increasing strength.



    Obviously. My statement was your TUT is going to train the IIA fibers more so than the rest. This is going to result in increasing your isometric contraction capability while failing to succeed in concentric and eccentric enhancement.



    Stand on the wrong side of the street if you want to. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. I know my physiology and kinesiology. I've taken 2 years of exercise science in college as well as gotten certified through two of the highest accredited organizations there is. I'm not quite concerned with what you've been lead onto believe.

    I was not mad at all when I read your post. I've got a lot more in my life going on than what some random dude on a forum thinks about training.



    I'll keep any discussion positive. I won't personally attack you. I've never personally attacked anyone during a disagreement on this site or in person.



    Timing is important, but so are the total caloric consumption itself. You won't gain significant LBM during a caloric deficit as you would with a caloric surplus.



    I don't care what you look like. That doesn't have anything to do with understanding how your body works.

    You might consider looking up Mark Rippetoe, the author of starting strength. Linear progressive resistance was made by throughout the internet by his program. Why don't you ask how many people on this forum used his linear programming with success. If you don't give your body new reasons to grow each workout, you will not hypertrophy but homeostasis.
    You are stating what ive already stated just typed in a different manner.

    Been done their done that my friend.

    Mark Rippetoe is awesome.

    Theirs no winning against people like you I suppose.
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    lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingk0ng View Post
    Um, actually yes it does. It is either in an anabolic or catabolic state. Your body knows if it's starving. If it doesn't receive the nutrients it needs it goes into a catabolic state and begins breaking down muscle tissue. So moving on.....



    You can't find a better argument than "lol" you are making a fool out of yourself.



    LMAO. So Mark Rippetoe's starting strength program made famous by the principles of progressive resistance is going to result in a break in form? Funny you should say so, because the 10,000 people on this forum and others including myself NEVER broke their form on starting strength as a result of linear progression.

    Let me educate you on something....

    When you begin a linear based routine you start with light weight and focus on your form. You then program something called "motor pattern" and motor pattern is the process in which the peripheral nervous system sends impulses to the CNS through the spine to change its movements in accordance to the way you "program" your body to move. That is why you "program" good form and then begin adding weight while maintaining the practice on this form. You will not "break form"

    The "negative" phase of a lift in physiology is called the ECCENTRIC phase and this is when a muscle is LENGTHENING and not shortening. This is when gravity is assisting with the lift and you are NOT the motive force. You are resisting the weight and gravity is assisting with it. During the concentric phase, you are moving AGAINST gravity and the muscle begins to short and therefore exerts force upward involving the agonst and synergist muscles that perform the actual lift.



    So your body doesn't use calories to build muscle? Did your mens health magazine tell you this or your "bro at the gym?"

    Lets see you gain LBM outside of a caloric surplus. I'm interested in seeing that.



    You will not eat 4,000 calories a day and not gain a single pound of muscle. I know powerlifters that eat 4-5,000 calories per day of whatever they want when they want and gain arguably MORE muscle in a single cycle then your beloved bodybuilders that has nutritionists do their diets for them. Even when you gain fat your body will gain muscle with it since it puts extra stress on the body to carry yourself around.



    You do not break your form by using progressive overload. That is the most uneducated and ridiculous thing I have ever heard in my life. Like I said, learn what motor pattern is and you will see what I am talking about. You teach your body to move properly during exercise in the beginning of your lifting with light weight and then as you PROGRESS in the big lifts your form will stay the way you taught your body to lift.



    You don't need to lose form and starting raising your butt of benches to increase linear loading.

    After overload, your CNS begins to activate previously inactive motor units inside of the muscle tissue that give you linear gains. Each and everytime you place progressive stress on the muscle, the nervous system in return activates more muscles and a higher % of those muscles.

    Just like dynamic "speed training" delays the Golgi Tendon Organs stretch reflex to the brain and allows you to exert a higher % of muscle fibers. This goes completely against your "theory" of TUT yet complies with progressive overload in increasing strength.



    Obviously. My statement was your TUT is going to train the IIA fibers more so than the rest. This is going to result in increasing your isometric contraction capability while failing to succeed in concentric and eccentric enhancement.



    Stand on the wrong side of the street if you want to. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. I know my physiology and kinesiology. I've taken 2 years of exercise science in college as well as gotten certified through two of the highest accredited organizations there is. I'm not quite concerned with what you've been lead onto believe.

    I was not mad at all when I read your post. I've got a lot more in my life going on than what some random dude on a forum thinks about training.



    I'll keep any discussion positive. I won't personally attack you. I've never personally attacked anyone during a disagreement on this site or in person.



    Timing is important, but so are the total caloric consumption itself. You won't gain significant LBM during a caloric deficit as you would with a caloric surplus.



    I don't care what you look like. That doesn't have anything to do with understanding how your body works.

    You might consider looking up Mark Rippetoe, the author of starting strength. Linear progressive resistance was made by throughout the internet by his program. Why don't you ask how many people on this forum used his linear programming with success. If you don't give your body new reasons to grow each workout, you will not hypertrophy but homeostasis.
    Epic internet meltdown haha

    Just stating the facts bro.

    You can either believe "Generic" info on the internet. Or actually learn how the body functions via school/college.
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    You are stating what ive already stated just typed in a different manner.
    Not at all.

    Mark Rippetoe is awesome.
    You suggest Rippetoe is awesome and then disagree with everything that he stands for? Nice.

    Theirs no winning against people like you I suppose.
    Not unless you can back what you say up.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheHardOne View Post
    Epic internet meltdown haha

    Just stating the facts bro.

    You can either believe "Generic" info on the internet. Or actually learn how the body functions via school/college.
    There's no "internet meltdown". I provided a response to you and explained why you were wrong and you come at me talking like a broski from jersey shore. If you would like to backup your facts with physiology then feel free to do so. Otherwise I am just wasting my time.
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    WTF....lol haha heres what you typed...

    "You will not eat 4,000 calories a day and not gain a single pound of muscle. I know powerlifters that eat 4-5,000 calories per day of whatever they want when they want and gain arguably MORE muscle in a single cycle then your beloved bodybuilders that has nutritionists do their diets for them. Even when you gain fat your body will gain muscle with it since it puts extra stress on the body to carry yourself around."


    After reading that......I AM OUT OF HERE! LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    rofl
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingk0ng View Post
    Not at all.



    You suggest Rippetoe is awesome and then disagree with everything that he stands for? Nice.



    Not unless you can back what you say up.



    There's no "internet meltdown". I provided a response to you and explained why you were wrong and you come at me talking like a broski from jersey shore. If you would like to backup your facts with physiology then feel free to do so. Otherwise I am just wasting my time.
    When did I disagree with Rippetoe??! lol

    Back up what I say? What is their not to believe that I said? With the training argument you got the right idea, im AGREEING WITH YOU on that. Your stating the right info? Is it because I don't want a beginner to take a progressive overload mindset right off the bat? I have reasons for that, which ive already stated. (and are damn good reasons!)

    Internet meltdown? lol bro im JUST MESSIN' WITH YA! Cool it homie

    What "wrong" info have I given out? I don't give out wrong info, if I give a opinion, ill clearly state it "my opinion".

    Ill give ya one more chance to see if you can give me an intelligent response instead of saying im wrong or saying i disagree with Rippetoe or some crazy crap that I never stated lololol.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheHardOne View Post
    WTF....lol haha heres what you typed...

    "You will not eat 4,000 calories a day and not gain a single pound of muscle. I know powerlifters that eat 4-5,000 calories per day of whatever they want when they want and gain arguably MORE muscle in a single cycle then your beloved bodybuilders that has nutritionists do their diets for them. Even when you gain fat your body will gain muscle with it since it puts extra stress on the body to carry yourself around."


    After reading that......I AM OUT OF HERE! LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    rofl
    Omg just read that again.....lol. Gonna foward that to Charles Poliquin, if you don't mind?
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheHardOne View Post
    When did I disagree with Rippetoe??! lol
    You obviously do not know what Rippetoe suggests if you cannot figure this out on your own. Rippetoe is 100% all about progressive overload in linear resistance form for beginner trainees. You are stating this training is "wrong" for a beginner. It is also ironic that Rippetoe is all about proper technique with exercises before accomplishing progressive resistance. He teaches you how to perform the movement accurately, then he has you add weight each workout. After you can no longer make linear gains, you begin periodized training.

    Back up what I say? What is their not to believe that I said? With the training argument you got the right idea, im AGREEING WITH YOU on that. Your stating the right info? Is it because I don't want a beginner to take a progressive overload mindset right off the bat? I have reasons for that, which ive already stated. (and are damn good reasons!)
    They are terrible reasons. I've already told you why those reasons were wrong. Motor pattern is programmed during early stages of lifting with light weight and maintained during progressive resistance training. You teach your body good form and your body becomes programmed to lift a certain way. Progressive resistance is made possible through a higher % of activation of muscle fibers and increased motor unit activity.

    What "wrong" info have I given out? I don't give out wrong info, if I give a opinion, ill clearly state it "my opinion".
    How the body works isn't an opinion. I posted cold facts on motor unit programming and why linear progressive resistance is possible.

    Ill give ya one more chance to see if you can give me an intelligent response instead of saying im wrong or saying i disagree with Rippetoe or some crazy crap that I never stated lololol.
    I've already responded to you. If you would like to disagree or correct errors in any of my posts, feel free to do so.

    WTF....lol haha heres what you typed...

    "You will not eat 4,000 calories a day and not gain a single pound of muscle. I know powerlifters that eat 4-5,000 calories per day of whatever they want when they want and gain arguably MORE muscle in a single cycle then your beloved bodybuilders that has nutritionists do their diets for them. Even when you gain fat your body will gain muscle with it since it puts extra stress on the body to carry yourself around."


    After reading that......I AM OUT OF HERE! LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    rofl
    So what exactly was inaccurate in that post?

    Here is Dave Tate, a powerlifter at Westside Barbell. Research his diet. I remember it had a lot to do with McDonalds and eating stuff I wouldn't dare eat during a day. Look at the LBM he has.

    http://www.google.com/imgres?hl=en&b...1t:429,r:9,s:0

    Now that picture IS after he cut some weight, but all of that LBM was gained in his years of training where he was on an A&E diet.
    Former Marine, UT-BSN, NSCA-CPT, NASM-CPT, CSCS
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    Dave Tate is one badass dude!

    Okay so what's your point lol

    (no really that dude is the definition of badass!)
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    Well we can agree upon Dave Tate being a badass. He is one of my favorite authors.

    The point in the picture of Tate was to show the LBM gained by powerlifters while on an A&E diet.

    lol and nice sig.
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    Awesome
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    My point is for a beginner to drop the ego and learn how to execute their movements, then slowly learn the fundamentals about the CNS / hypertrophy techniques.

    That is all. Addressing one step before the most important steps for long term success ends up in epic failure. (thats my point)

    Lets leave it at that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheHardOne View Post
    My point is for a beginner to drop the ego and learn how to execute their movements, then slowly learn the fundamentals about the CNS / hypertrophy techniques.

    That is all. Addressing one step before the most important steps for long term success ends up in epic failure. (thats my point)

    Lets leave it at that.
    Form and technique is always the first thing taught to novices by successful coaches. According to Mark Rippetoe and Bill Starr, you are a novice until you cannot make linear progression on compound movements anymore.

    My point is, you start extremely LIGHT on a linear based program, then after your technique is accomplished you add 5-10lbs per workout. That is the same principles Rippetoe suggests to every novice lifter on earth. That is what I am saying. You said "forget the progressive overload" and starting talking about TUT.

    Isometric, eccentric, concentric <<< three different phases of a lift. Your 15 second pause or whatever solely focused on isometrics.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingk0ng View Post
    Form and technique is always the first thing taught to novices by successful coaches. According to Mark Rippetoe and Bill Starr, you are a novice until you cannot make linear progression on compound movements anymore.

    My point is, you start extremely LIGHT on a linear based program, then after your technique is accomplished you add 5-10lbs per workout. That is the same principles Rippetoe suggests to every novice lifter on earth. That is what I am saying. You said "forget the progressive overload" and starting talking about TUT.

    Isometric, eccentric, concentric <<< three different phases of a lift. Your 15 second pause or whatever solely focused on isometrics.
    I know.

    I said forget progressive overload so he can drop the ego and learn how to execute his movements optimally for his goals. Obviously you thought I meant "forget progressive overload FOREVER"....which is not what I meant.

    With all this knowledge you must be way bigger than Thehardone the 19 year old Phenom!!! hahah lol just bustin' your balls!

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheHardOne View Post
    I said forget progressive overload so he can drop the ego and learn how to execute his movements optimally for his goals. Obviously you thought I meant "forget progressive overload FOREVER"....which is not what I meant.
    O

    OK yeah I agree with that.

    With all this knowledge you must be way bigger than Thehardone the 19 year old Phenom!!! hahah lol just bustin' your balls!
    You seem to be pretty big for 19 in your avatar pic. I don't look quite as big as you. I try to stay kind of smaller so I can get around a lot easier in the mountains, boxing, grappling, or running and stuff. I'm probably a shade or two smaller than you are.

    Cheers
    Good talking. Goodnight!
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingk0ng View Post
    O

    OK yeah I agree with that.



    You seem to be pretty big for 19 in your avatar pic. I don't look quite as big as you. I try to stay kind of smaller so I can get around a lot easier in the mountains, boxing, grappling, or running and stuff. I'm probably a shade or two smaller than you are.



    Good talking. Goodnight!
    2 similar minds have disagreements but in a mature manner end up settling it like real men

    If every disagreement was settled like this in the world, their would be peace and love! lol

    Respect to ya!
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    If we could teach politicians to debate in a forum in this manner where they have to read reply/rebuttle maybe we could fix the economy and cure multiple social problems instead of getting nowhere. Pride prevents progress and my way is never the only way. thumbsup: guys!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by supraseed48 View Post
    If we could teach politicians to debate in a forum in this manner where they have to read reply/rebuttle maybe we could fix the economy and cure multiple social problems instead of getting nowhere. Pride prevents progress and my way is never the only way. thumbsup: guys!!
    Thanks fella. Civil disagreements usually makes someone provide their knowledge and backup what they know. I like these types of threads and reading through them. In regards to the politicians, you are so right about that!

    2 similar minds have disagreements but in a mature manner end up settling it like real men

    If every disagreement was settled like this in the world, their would be peace and love! lol

    Respect to ya!
    Respect back to you my friend. If only all threads had the maturity this thread had.
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    Everyone needs a change up in their routine. From the looks of things if your chest is not growing then you need to change things up.

    Try this one, before you do your bench press set, stress out those pecks, do either an incline dumbbell fly (heavy enough that you maintain proper form), my favorite is a cable fly (two way resistance on the cables burns my pecs big time). Then jump on to your press routine, could be a barbell bench press or dumbbell flat bench press.

    Because your pecs are already burning from your fly routine, you will concentrate more blood to the region when your doing your chest press routine.

    Continue your chest routine alternating between push and pull. Focus on working the top, middle and lower section of your pec.

    More importantly stop comparing yourself to others, work on your own form, and have fun.

    Changes will come if you put in the time and effort, just remember "stop counting your REPS, but rather, make every REP count"
  37. Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1ISOGCebuano View Post
    Everyone needs a change up in their routine. From the looks of things if your chest is not growing then you need to change things up.

    Try this one, before you do your bench press set, stress out those pecks, do either an incline dumbbell fly (heavy enough that you maintain proper form), my favorite is a cable fly (two way resistance on the cables burns my pecs big time). Then jump on to your press routine, could be a barbell bench press or dumbbell flat bench press.

    Because your pecs are already burning from your fly routine, you will concentrate more blood to the region when your doing your chest press routine.

    Continue your chest routine alternating between push and pull. Focus on working the top, middle and lower section of your pec.

    More importantly stop comparing yourself to others, work on your own form, and have fun.

    Changes will come if you put in the time and effort, just remember "stop counting your REPS, but rather, make every REP count"
    Hey bro do ya thinkz that chest workouut will work for meh?























    lol
  38. Advanced Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheHardOne View Post
    Hey bro do ya thinkz that chest workouut will work for meh?
    lol.... I hope that guy is joking..
















    lol[/QUOTE]
    Former Marine, UT-BSN, NSCA-CPT, NASM-CPT, CSCS
  39. Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingk0ng View Post
    lol.... I hope that guy is joking..
















    lol
    [/QUOTE]

    Me or the other guy? lol I was just trollin' him haha
  40. Advanced Member
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    Me or the other guy? lol I was just trollin' him haha
    The other guy. His advice didn't make sense.
    Former Marine, UT-BSN, NSCA-CPT, NASM-CPT, CSCS
  

  
 

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