Is it possible

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    Is it possible


    I am new to the bodybuilding world but it's like everyone that I inspire to look like has been caught or has admitted to using steroids. My question is would it be possible to get big enough to be a Mr Olympia contender without using steroids? Not that it's my goal, I'm just curious.

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    You'd need more then steroids...

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    nope, not happening. Here's the natural olympia guys

    http://www.naturalolympia.com/

    and even they aren't all 100% natural, some manage to sneak growth hormone + insulin past.
    This space for rent

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    Nope...if you look at the so called "natural" contests, rare to see guys competing over 200lbs.
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    Yeah not much of a chance. There's only a handful of ifbb pros that claim to be natural and none are near the top. Agree that a lot of natural pros are not over 200 on stage, and the untested guys are pushing 250-300 onstage. BIG difference
    My goal as a natural bodybuilder is to improve constantly, and win my pro card, while making an increasing amount of people doubt that I'm natural ;)
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    True that is a huge difference, like I said I'm new to the sport, but my goal is to be 250lb. Which doesn't seem that far away cause my natural weight is around 225 to 230 at 16% body fat. Do y'all thank that it would be possible. Oh and I'm 6' 2" and 22 years old.
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    Yeah sure you can if you're a big dude. But even at those numbers, you're still "only" 190 lbs lean body mass lol. But yeah if you were around 250 then dieted down you might be around 200-205 or so, shredded. Typically I don't like getting higher than 11-12% bf, because it's easier to monitor your physiques progress and easier to diet down. But that's up to you
    My goal as a natural bodybuilder is to improve constantly, and win my pro card, while making an increasing amount of people doubt that I'm natural ;)
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    Well I would love to build as much as possible but drop body fat to around 10%
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    I have a question related to this thread.. how does someone prove that a Natural bodybuilder has always been that way. If someone were to take a cycle of steroids and then compete 2 years later. They are not really natural anymore but how would someone prove that? Would it not be possible to put on a large amount of muscle with steroids and maintain that while maintaing/cutting naturally for a year?
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    There are definitely "natural" guys that have taken anabolics in the past and then years later will test clean. It sucks for us lifetime naturals, and yeah, I don't believe you're natural anymore after you've done it. Sure you'll lose some size if you're not cycling back on, but once you've gained that amount, your body will still have extra muscle from it.
    My goal as a natural bodybuilder is to improve constantly, and win my pro card, while making an increasing amount of people doubt that I'm natural ;)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firmanator View Post
    There are definitely "natural" guys that have taken anabolics in the past and then years later will test clean. It sucks for us lifetime naturals, and yeah, I don't believe you're natural anymore after you've done it. Sure you'll lose some size if you're not cycling back on, but once you've gained that amount, your body will still have extra muscle from it.
    Yea, I think there was some research about that too. About mitochondria size being affected by steroids. Though I doubt someone who has done like a couple cycles is really going to be THAT much higher than someone who hasn't. Also, many people don't cycle when they have reached their genetic limit so they just get results faster but still never pass what they could've done naturally. I honestly don't know if there is THAT much of a difference but I know that naturally you can do a lot.

    TBH I think a lot of people just run the gear to feel better lol. (I'd be one in that category)
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattrag View Post
    Yea, I think there was some research about that too. About mitochondria size being affected by steroids. Though I doubt someone who has done like a couple cycles is really going to be THAT much higher than someone who hasn't. Also, many people don't cycle when they have reached their genetic limit so they just get results faster but still never pass what they could've done naturally. I honestly don't know if there is THAT much of a difference but I know that naturally you can do a lot.

    TBH I think a lot of people just run the gear to feel better lol. (I'd be one in that category)

    Could someone who does 3 cycles in one year not gain at least 25 lbs of muscle where someone who is natural could not even get half of that... then they both compete one year later and they both test negative? That sounds like a big difference to me but what do I know I have not run a cycle yet though I am starting a designer steroid next week...but I also never plan on competing so no hypocrisy here
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigdavid View Post
    Could someone who does 3 cycles in one year not gain at least 25 lbs of muscle where someone who is natural could not even get half of that... then they both compete one year later and they both test negative? That sounds like a big difference to me but what do I know I have not run a cycle yet though I am starting a designer steroid next week...but I also never plan on competing so no hypocrisy here
    3 cycles of what? Even if you did 3 cycles of Sdrol and kept 8lbs of each that'd be something REALLY good. even more so if 8 of those pounds were ONLY muscle. Plus then when you cut you will lose a lot of it. Also, the stress and damage on your liver from that long usage and the damage of using all those SERMS.... While I will say that yes the natty will probably get around 12-24lbs of "mass" on from a year depending on where he is on his training age, someone who uses AAS will definitely get bigger faster, but a lot will by lost because of water weight initially, then when they cut if they don't have the AAS in them the body will not be able to support the extra muscle for too long while in a calorie deficit. I'm not sure on the science or what not but I am sure Alan Aragon (Who I don't particularly agree with on everything), said just like how the body has an essential fat/non essential fat level there is also a level of non essential muscle. And w/o the high levels of anabolics running through you you will probably lose most of it.

    The guy might come out maybe 2lbs heavier than the non user.... It boils down into this really, why are you taking it? In this business there really is no "cheating". Everyone has access to everything, as long as they know what they are doing. If you compete natty just don't take it. The guys know they'll never get as big as Jay Cutler, they probably don't ever want to. But they know they can get pretty jacked w/o the PH. Guys that take the PH know that they will never get as big as Jay Cutler, but it's fun to try. And also, if you're not competing and don't really care about all the gray area trash talk, it's not that bad for you... As long as you know what you are doing, take your blood tests, take your vitamins, and live/eat healthy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattrag View Post
    3 cycles of what? Even if you did 3 cycles of Sdrol and kept 8lbs of each that'd be something REALLY good. even more so if 8 of those pounds were ONLY muscle. Plus then when you cut you will lose a lot of it. Also, the stress and damage on your liver from that long usage and the damage of using all those SERMS.... While I will say that yes the natty will probably get around 12-24lbs of "mass" on from a year depending on where he is on his training age, someone who uses AAS will definitely get bigger faster, but a lot will by lost because of water weight initially, then when they cut if they don't have the AAS in them the body will not be able to support the extra muscle for too long while in a calorie deficit. I'm not sure on the science or what not but I am sure Alan Aragon (Who I don't particularly agree with on everything), said just like how the body has an essential fat/non essential fat level there is also a level of non essential muscle. And w/o the high levels of anabolics running through you you will probably lose most of it.

    The guy might come out maybe 2lbs heavier than the non user.... It boils down into this really, why are you taking it? In this business there really is no "cheating". Everyone has access to everything, as long as they know what they are doing. If you compete natty just don't take it. The guys know they'll never get as big as Jay Cutler, they probably don't ever want to. But they know they can get pretty jacked w/o the PH. Guys that take the PH know that they will never get as big as Jay Cutler, but it's fun to try. And also, if you're not competing and don't really care about all the gray area trash talk, it's not that bad for you... As long as you know what you are doing, take your blood tests, take your vitamins, and live/eat healthy.
    i understand what you are saying. I have a lot to learn about ph usage so I do not yet understand how easily you can gain and then lose your muscle growth. I guess I will get a taste of this soon.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigdavid View Post
    i understand what you are saying. I have a lot to learn about ph usage so I do not yet understand how easily you can gain and then lose your muscle growth. I guess I will get a taste of this soon.
    Just make sure you have your "health" support supplements, your Post cycle Testosterone recovery supplements, and a good diet to meet your goals with a good training routine that challenges your body and you'll be on your way. I don't know how old you are or how big you look but hopefully you will see good results. I'm not one to bash anyone saying you're too young, or you have a lot of natural growth behind you still. Just be healthy, don't kill yourself, and remember, have fun.
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    Martin from leangains has a handy formula to working out your natural peak conditioning threshold. Its not meant to be perfectly accurate, but giver or take 5 pounds either side its pretty close.

    Basically the formula is in its roughest sense 'height in cm - 100' = weight in kg at peak conditioning (5-7%bf).
    So for example, I'm 191 cm which means 91kg (200lbs) at 5-7% is probably the most I could ever attain naturally. As far as I've seen, this formula seems pretty darn accurate.
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    Quote Originally Posted by quigley
    Martin from leangains has a handy formula to working out your natural peak conditioning threshold. Its not meant to be perfectly accurate, but giver or take 5 pounds either side its pretty close.

    Basically the formula is in its roughest sense 'height in cm - 100' = weight in kg at peak conditioning (5-7%bf).
    So for example, I'm 191 cm which means 91kg (200lbs) at 5-7% is probably the most I could ever attain naturally. As far as I've seen, this formula seems pretty darn accurate.
    Sadly I'm not even there and Ive been taking helping supplements lol.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattrag View Post
    Sadly I'm not even there and Ive been taking helping supplements lol.
    Lol yeah well its meant to be the ultimate threshold so if you get there without help it's likely your social life and hobbies outside of bodybuilding are nonexistant

    I'm currently 91kg at 18-20% bf. So all I need to do is stay the same weight but drop 12%bf. pft easy. haha
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    Quote Originally Posted by quigley

    Lol yeah well its meant to be the ultimate threshold so if you get there without help it's likely your social life and hobbies outside of bodybuilding are nonexistant

    I'm currently 91kg at 18-20% bf. So all I need to do is stay the same weight but drop 12%bf. pft easy. haha
    No, thats not true at all unless your social life and hobbies only consist of burger king and pizza hut.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    No, thats not true at all unless your social life and hobbies only consist of burger king and pizza hut.
    I think in order to reach maximum natural potential you need to be in competition condition, which certainly requires more effort than than staying away from burger king and pizza hut. Most natural bobybuilders in great shape would hover a little below their threshold as reaching that level and maintaining it would most likely consume a disproportinate amount of time and effort
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    Well, I think with patience & consistency getting near there isnt that bad. Those 2 seem to be most people's issue with real progress
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    That formula is as helpful as a BMI chart. There are many factors affecting a persons physique potential, such as muscle belly type, bone structure, etc. It cannot be restricted to height Vs weight. Also, I don't believe in maximum potential. I do believe that it takes more effort to gain later on, but that doesn't mean there's a point where your body says "nope I won't grow anymore". Your personal max will just be as much as you've attained before your hormones etc are affected by age and you physically can't support it anymore. Just my opinion
    My goal as a natural bodybuilder is to improve constantly, and win my pro card, while making an increasing amount of people doubt that I'm natural ;)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firmanator View Post
    That formula is as helpful as a BMI chart. There are many factors affecting a persons physique potential, such as muscle belly type, bone structure, etc. It cannot be restricted to height Vs weight. Also, I don't believe in maximum potential. I do believe that it takes more effort to gain later on, but that doesn't mean there's a point where your body says "nope I won't grow anymore". Your personal max will just be as much as you've attained before your hormones etc are affected by age and you physically can't support it anymore. Just my opinion
    I would think that someone's maximum natural potential would be the point where they cannot make progress after devoting 100% of their time to their goals. However, since we live in the real world with responsibilities (jobs, some people have kids, social lives, etc) we can never really reach that point.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigdavid View Post
    I have a question related to this thread.. how does someone prove that a Natural bodybuilder has always been that way. If someone were to take a cycle of steroids and then compete 2 years later. They are not really natural anymore but how would someone prove that? Would it not be possible to put on a large amount of muscle with steroids and maintain that while maintaing/cutting naturally for a year?
    Lie detector test. This is common. They ask questions like, "have you taken any hormonal substances in the past 5 years"..kinda hard to get by those questions.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fueledpassion View Post
    Lie detector test. This is common. They ask questions like, "have you taken any hormonal substances in the past 5 years"..kinda hard to get by those questions.
    How can that be considered valid? Those tests are not that accurate. A friend of mine was told he was lying about his NAME.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigdavid View Post
    How can that be considered valid? Those tests are not that accurate. A friend of mine was told he was lying about his NAME.
    Hahah, its considered valid because any type of human liquid testing (urine, blood) are not very cheap. Having the docs/nurses on staff on most amatuer level shows is just not in the budget. Getting the machine I assume is easier... and just saying "Im clean" honor system is even cheaper.

    Im just guessing though as I dont really intend to enter any shows...
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