question of ethics

[tumtum]

first things first.. read this entire post before you flame me

ok. so whenever someone asks me if i'm natural i always tell them this long boring story:

i've taken 3 cycles" hdrol, havoc, and mdrol. BUT... every one of them effected my appetite so badly that i was only able to put on about 2-3 lbs.. so on the 6 weeks of havoc and the 4 wks of pct i put on like 2 lbs. so in other words taking these cycles actually hurt my gains. i also didn't get any stronger because i just couldn't eat. i would wake up in the morning stuffed to the brim and couldn't stomach anything all day. (first cycle which was hdrol i was 190 i believe.. i'm currently 179 today)

so basically i've done 3 cycles but had ZERO success with them. i'm wanting to compete in the next 1.5 years. i'm about to get really serious and i'm thinking about hiring alex from prepbyalex.com

could i compete as a natural? i know technically i'm not but this has given me absolutely zero advantage. i'm not lying about my gains either. no one here knows me and i have nothing to gain by lying.

[Killerkanadia]

I think the read somewhere you have to have been off steroids for 2 years to compete natural.

[tumtum]

if that's the case then perfect.. my last dose of the non-effective mdrol was in april of this year

[Killerkanadia]

Sorry, i will look and see where i read 2 years, because i remember that.

But... the INBA says 5 years.
http://www.naturalbodybuilding.com/

All competitors must be drug free for amount of time allocated for the competition they are in- National and International Events have a minimum of five years drug free, unless stipulated differently. Drug testing is to conform to IOC regulated Standards.

In the sport of Natural Bodybuilding, the classification of natural is based on the organization you are competing in. For example, The I.N.B.A. (International Natural Bodybuilding Association) is the largest and most strict drug-free bodybuilding and fitness organization in the world. The INBA follows the I.O.C. (International Olympics Committee) and W.A.D.A. (World Anti-Doping Association) Banned Substance Lists. All Athletes are fully tested by urinalysis, even amateur level. On the other end of the spectrum, you have the N.P.C. (National Physique Committee) which only tests for Anabolic steroids, Pro- hormone and prescripted Diuretics, and testing is different depending on the competition you are competing in. There are many organization for Natural Bodybuilding including the INBA, INBF (International Natural Bodybuilding Federation) , NGA (National Gym Association), NANBF (North American Natural Bodybuilding Federation),NPC, NPA (Natural physique association), and OCB (Organization of Competitive Bodybuilders). All of which has their own “Banned Substances” and testing methods. These methods range from polygraph, to Urinalysis, in some cases like the Olympics, there is even blood testing.

[drinkyboy]

You will be ok man. I know people that arent natural and compete natural. There are ways around all of this. Your right as far as a question of ethics but being honest and following the rules is followed by few. I wanted to compete naturally at one point but realized all the people i know that arent natural that i would be up against and there was no way in hell. Best of luck!

[BlondBombshel]

If you test clean you can compete in natural. But since the title is "Question of ETHICS". Many of the guys/gal I know compete in natural after running AAS cycles for years. I know many people have had to set aside what they believe and run drugs just to place well. Really natural should be NATURAL but it is already so tainted. Im sure in this thread you will get many other opinions and peoples view on the ethics of bodybuilding but YOURs is the only one that matters.

I say go for it, you have one life to live. You have been off long enough. Good luck!

[kingdong]

You don't have as much to be guilty about as a lot of natural BB's, but I will say this:

1. You say the compounds hurt gains because they killed your appatite, but you could have forced yourself to eat.

2. You still gained a few pounds while eating what you consider not enough food. This means that the chemicals still helped you in the lean mass department.

[TheBreeze]

Im pretty sure you will be fine as a natural BB. I say this based on the fact I read somewhere a while ago the Flex Wheeler is competing as a natty nowadays. And anyone who knows anything about late 90's BB knows Flex Wheeler was everything but natural.

But BlondeBombshell was right, this is the only chance you get at life so I say go for it! Besides, if you're beef enough to compete at all, not to mention have the confidence to get on stage is your skibbies, you will rock it! Then even is you happen to place low, you will always be able to say to yourself you at least attempted to be a clean BB.

Good luck bro. Keep us posted if you decide to go for it. You got my vote at least.

[tumtum]

You don't have as much to be guilty about as a lot of natural BB's, but I will say this:

1. You say the compounds hurt gains because they killed your appatite, but you could have forced yourself to eat.

2. You still gained a few pounds while eating what you consider not enough food. This means that the chemicals still helped you in the lean mass department.

1. i did force myself to eat.. it would take me 30 minutes to finish a meal.. sweating the entire time.. on the verge of throwing up.. i had to quit most my meals.

2. who can't gain 2 lbs in 8 weeks?... u never know. 2 lbs could be water and that can be gained in 1 day

[MentalTwitch]

NPC i think is one year for natural shows. Kevin Noble show is i think. OCB federation is 1 if i can recall correct.

[kingdong]

1. i did force myself to eat.. it would take me 30 minutes to finish a meal.. sweating the entire time.. on the verge of throwing up.. i had to quit most my meals.

2. who can't gain 2 lbs in 8 weeks?... u never know. 2 lbs could be water and that can be gained in 1 day

#2 is true, but you have already said that you were eating less, and you even had to give up on meals. The fact that you gained anything when you should have been loseing weight tells me the compounds probably atleast affected your muscle to fat ratio a little.

As I said though, even if youve gained a small edge, you are still more innocent than a lot of natty competers who have given themselves a large edge.

[TheWriting]

Ethics? What is that .

[Old Navy]

NPC is one year to compete in their natural shows.

NGA is seven years.

OCB, SNBF, INDF is five years. OCB and INDF give polygraph tests. SNBF gives both and also tests the winners again after each contest.

WNSO does not test, but does pull competitors aside to give "spot" pee tests at their contests. I believe they are going to tighten this up.

NPA has you sign an "Honor" statement of being "drug" free that's notarized at check-in. They are going to start urinalysis next year.

Your best best, until you have the required time behind you, is to compete in the NPC natural shows.

[Type O Hero]

I think the read somewhere you have to have been off steroids for 2 years to compete natural.

I would imagine that if you passed a blood test you would be considered natural even if you did tons of steroids at an earlier point. As long as it doesn't show up on blood tests then they can't really say anything.

You'd have to check and see how long those compounds remained in your system (or whatever trace compounds they leave behind, I should say).

[drivehard]

Wow...
Nice to know where the ethics of people are on this board.
I am sadly disappointed.

[kingjameskjf]

OP, you did 3 cycles, no matter how well you did on them doesn't matter, you still did it. Sounds like Clinton's smoked but didn't inhale excuse. I believe there are some out there that aren't tested but IDK since I haven't competed, thus my input is limited.

Here is some info I found online:

NPC
http://www.npcnewsonline.com/rules.cfm


World Natural Bodybuilding and International Natural Bodybuilding & Fitness Federation
Any athletes who are new the INBF must have not used any prohormones for at least two (2) years before joining the INBF for the first time.


UNBA
All contestants must be a member of the UNBA.** The membership fee is $40.00 per year.
Contestants must be five (5) years drug-free.* Contestants will be polygraphed.


International Olympic Committee (IOC) 
and the ABA/INBA/PNBA
This is not a complete list, as new products are introduced every day!
Natural Drug Free Requirements

All competitors must be drug free for amount of time allocated for the competition they are in- National and International Events have a minimum of five years drug free, unless stipulated differently. Drug testing is to conform to IOC regulated Standards.
Once your entry form is received you will be contacted to verify your appointment time for the polygraph test.
You must obtain two characters references attesting that you have been drug free depending on amount of time allocated for the competition.
You will be required to pay for your polygraph test. Pending on the competition, overall winners will be required to take an additional test, urine or blood.
This includes all performance enhancing "drugs" that are on the IOC banned list.
All athletes must pass a polygraph or urine test every 60 days (if they are competing).
We will also conduct random drug testing at each event as well as random testing to all members of the Natural Teams throughout the year.
Random drug testing for Team members began January 1st, 1999 and we will conduct a minimum of 1-2 tests per month.
If an athlete tests positive for a banned substance they will be suspended from competing for a minimum of one year up to lifetime ban, and their name, picture and test results posted on website and magazines.
Any member of the Natural Teams that is found experimenting with a banned substance will be banned from the team for life. The athlete suspension begins immediately upon receipt of a positive test. The athlete has the right to appeal the decision, however, the suspension remains in effect until either the "B" sample confirms or refutes the findings or a meeting is held by the representatives of the local federation and the International committee where the case may be appealed. Once a final ruling is made by the local and International INBA committee, then there is no second appeal.. In the case of an inaccurate reading on the polygraph test they will be obliged to undergo a urine test with a final decision pending a meeting of the INBA Committee."
Be advised that among the banned substances are ephedrine and its derivatives, DHEA and Andro and all of its derivatives. It is your responsibility to be aware of the substances that are on the banned list. Ignorance is not an excuse.

[FlexW99]

Like the posts about the orgranizations and the breakdowns...that helps.

on another note not directed to OP but just some generalities:

1. Because someone is 'on' something, doesn't mean they are aesthetically pleasing to look at, are what the judges are looking for, or means they are ripped to shreds.

2. Do it for you. Bring your best product and see where you stand.

[Bsparrot]

Compete natural. Yes, you do have to be off steroids for a few years to be natural. and I thought mdrol made you hungry as a horse?

[HondaV65]

I would not worry about it as long as you've been "off" long enough to meet the minimum requirements. I highly doubt anyone you'll be competing against will be anabolic virgins.

[Dr.Lang]

I have several friends that compete in mid to higher level shows and they are all in love with the SARMs. And from the way they tell it, most of the top guys are using something. HGH etc.