cinnamon!?!?! WTF!?!?!

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    cinnamon!?!?! WTF!?!?!


    okay, so a while ago i started a thread about not feeling sore or gaining any extra mass/losing bf from x factor. Today i was reading about cinnamon and came across this statement:

    "Cinnamon's ability to lower the release of arachidonic acid from cell membranes also puts it in the category of an "anti-inflammatory" food that can be helpful in lessening inflammation."

    taken from:WHFoods: Cinnamon, ground

    now, i eat ALOT of cinnamon, in my 3 bowls of oats a day and cup of cottage cheese before bed. When i say alot i mean i drench my food in it. Now could this be the reason for x factor not working?

    and if it is can i cut out all cinnamon from now on and still get the benefits? I am currently on day 38.(and i hear you still make gains 2 weeks after your last dose)

    If i had the money i would just buy another bottle and add it on to the cycle so it would be like a full cycle, but this just mafe me feel like i wasted alot of time and money on a supplement that has gotten amazing reviews and i feel would have done alot for me.


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    bump?

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    Hmmm. first of all, no need to bump it's already atthe top :P

    I eat cinnamon regularly, and find no problems. You cantry to cut it out and see how you feel. Please let me know how it goes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jjohn View Post
    Hmmm. first of all, no need to bump it's already atthe top :P

    I eat cinnamon regularly, and find no problems. You cantry to cut it out and see how you feel. Please let me know how it goes.
    haha, yes this thread doesnt seem to fly by as fast as the other forums do.Don't know why when the reps are always eager to help and throw down some great knowledge.

    back on task.lol. I dont think you understand exactly how much cinnamon i use. Im talking like 2 of those "shakers" a week into my oats. Im going to cut it all out for the rest of the cycle and if i start to feel a little more soreness i will know it was the cinnamon. I only have 12 days left though, so i may not even feel it then. If i do feel it however im going to have to really scavenge up some cash for another bottle as money is really tight now and i dont want to waste already being someone loaded with ArA. I just wish i knew before so that i could have put a potentially great stack and $100 to better use.

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    Quote Originally Posted by clownbaby1 View Post
    haha, yes this thread doesnt seem to fly by as fast as the other forums do.Don't know why when the reps are always eager to help and throw down some great knowledge.

    back on task.lol. I dont think you understand exactly how much cinnamon i use. Im talking like 2 of those "shakers" a week into my oats. Im going to cut it all out for the rest of the cycle and if i start to feel a little more soreness i will know it was the cinnamon. I only have 12 days left though, so i may not even feel it then. If i do feel it however im going to have to really scavenge up some cash for another bottle as money is really tight now and i dont want to waste already being someone loaded with ArA. I just wish i knew before so that i could have put a potentially great stack and $100 to better use.
    If you have the DOMS, we might be able to help you out. Just do as I say, I will do my best to get your satisfaction out of it. I am a beleiver, and I want you to be as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jjohn View Post
    If you have the DOMS, we might be able to help you out. Just do as I say, I will do my best to get your satisfaction out of it. I am a beleiver, and I want you to be as well.
    Thanks a lot jjohn. I will let you know how things go the next 2 weeks. I'm hoping that the Ara has already built up, but the cinnamon wouldn't let it get excreted to the muscle cells(as what i've been reading in cinnamon's anti inflammatory articles). I may even run it at 3 caps a day so i can run it a bit longer just in case i cant get enough money saved up. (im only 150-155 lbs, manlet ftw!). But thanks again for all of your help. MN reps really are top notch!

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    hope you enjoy it man. I do use alot of cinnamon and never noted any lessening of effects(but i don't seem to use as much cinnamon as you do)
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    Interesting, I know I sure eat alot of cinnamon in my morning porridge, but I don't think it was the reason I didn't get DOMS. Would be kind of neat if someone discovered cinnamon stops DOMS lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by clownbaby1 View Post
    haha, yes this thread doesnt seem to fly by as fast as the other forums do.Don't know why when the reps are always eager to help and throw down some great knowledge.

    back on task.lol. I dont think you understand exactly how much cinnamon i use. Im talking like 2 of those "shakers" a week into my oats. Im going to cut it all out for the rest of the cycle and if i start to feel a little more soreness i will know it was the cinnamon. I only have 12 days left though, so i may not even feel it then. If i do feel it however im going to have to really scavenge up some cash for another bottle as money is really tight now and i dont want to waste already being someone loaded with ArA. I just wish i knew before so that i could have put a potentially great stack and $100 to better use.
    Isn't that much "raw" cinnamon dangerous as it has toxic chemicals that can build up if large dosages are use over time? Didn't they make CinulinPF to avoid this aspect.

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    Quote Originally Posted by saludable24 View Post
    Isn't that much "raw" cinnamon dangerous as it has toxic chemicals that can build up if large dosages are use over time? Didn't they make CinulinPF to avoid this aspect.
    Uhhhh errr - no, I think the CPF was to target the exact molecule that lowers blood sugar and improves cholesterol profiles.

    I've never heard anything about toxicity with cinnamon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steveoph View Post
    Interesting, I know I sure eat alot of cinnamon in my morning porridge, but I don't think it was the reason I didn't get DOMS. Would be kind of neat if someone discovered cinnamon stops DOMS lol
    WTF is porridge???

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    Quote Originally Posted by jmh80 View Post
    WTF is porridge???
    Prepared oatmeal.

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    I think Steve is from Canada - I guess that explains it.

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    Lol. This just happened to me as I was on the phone with Marcus from ATW. I was talking about how I always throw cinnabun protein into my porridge and then there was a pause... some confused laughter then he realized by porridge I meant oatmeal

    It's the British influence, although the Quaker stuff is labelled oatmeal. When I think about it, porridge does sound like the Goldilocks stuff

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    It's ok - you guys say "aboot" also.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jmh80 View Post
    Uhhhh errr - no, I think the CPF was to target the exact molecule that lowers blood sugar and improves cholesterol profiles.

    I've never heard anything about toxicity with cinnamon.
    Well yes, I know what CPF does; cinnamon does the same thing, just in larger quantities. I was just under the impression that overuse could lead to toxicity, thus one of the reasons for separation.

    I looked and looked on pubmed, but could find very little about cinnamon toxicity, looks like maybe the oil could be irritative, but I must be thinking of something else I had read.

    At leaste now I know I can be much more liberal with my use of cinnamon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jmh80 View Post
    I think Steve is from Canada - I guess that explains it.
    Bingo! I am also Canadian.

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    Quote Originally Posted by saludable24 View Post
    Well yes, I know what CPF does; cinnamon does the same thing, just in larger quantities. I was just under the impression that overuse could lead to toxicity, thus one of the reasons for separation.

    I looked and looked on pubmed, but could find very little about cinnamon toxicity, looks like maybe the oil could be irritative, but I must be thinking of something else I had read.

    At leaste now I know I can be much more liberal with my use of cinnamon.
    No, no, I've read something on cinnamon and toxicity too, but what I recall was it depends on the source, like Madagascar cinnamon is ok, but inferior types are not. Something like that.

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    I will do an attempt to solve this. Please answer this question honestly:

    Do you usually get sore?

    Reason why I am asking is that AA is released when muscle tissue is damaged. When I come to think of it.. How can you be "more sore" if you never are? Reason is simple. You probably got used to your training/routine, and you can't seem to get sore anymore.

    If you do as I say, I am willing to send you a cycle on behalf of MN for you to get a second chance at it. But you have to do as I say. I want you to try this:

    Change your intensity, evercises, AND rep range. I want you to train like there is no tomorrow. If you usually do reps in the range of 6-10, do 12 reps of each exercise, and FOCUS on tearing the muscle. No need to lift heavy weights, what we want to do is damage muscle tissue, not hurt your joints.

    Change all your exercises. Ex: If you usually to barbell bench, switch to dumbell. DO NOT LIFT TOO MUCH WEIGHT! We want full range, well executed movements. I want you to burn and tear them down.

    Le me know how it goes.

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    VPX zero carb whey actually has some cinnamon in it..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Usf97j4x4 View Post
    VPX zero carb whey actually has some cinnamon in it..
    LOL what????

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    Quote Originally Posted by jjohn View Post
    I will do an attempt to solve this. Please answer this question honestly:

    Do you usually get sore?

    Reason why I am asking is that AA is released when muscle tissue is damaged. When I come to think of it.. How can you be "more sore" if you never are? Reason is simple. You probably got used to your training/routine, and you can't seem to get sore anymore.

    If you do as I say, I am willing to send you a cycle on behalf of MN for you to get a second chance at it. But you have to do as I say. I want you to try this:

    Change your intensity, evercises, AND rep range. I want you to train like there is no tomorrow. If you usually do reps in the range of 6-10, do 12 reps of each exercise, and FOCUS on tearing the muscle. No need to lift heavy weights, what we want to do is damage muscle tissue, not hurt your joints.

    Change all your exercises. Ex: If you usually to barbell bench, switch to dumbell. DO NOT LIFT TOO MUCH WEIGHT! We want full range, well executed movements. I want you to burn and tear them down.

    Le me know how it goes.
    Wow, Jjohn that is extrememly genorous and yes i will do exactly as i say, because you know more than i do i'm sure. About 2 weeks before taking x factor i was sore after my workouts, not extremly, but sore nonetheless. I then started the cycle and was expecting severe DOMS, but none came whatsoever, not even on leg day, when i used to not be able to walk the next 2 days.My intensity has stayed the same and i was curious as to why my DOMS decreased instead of increased. I always lifted in the 6-8 rep range for most compound lifts and the 8-10 or 8-12 for most isolation. I am willing to change this to moderate weights at 8-12 for comound and 10-14 for isolation. I will throw in more sets and add in some excercises to "shock" the muscles. From now on my goal is going to be to tear the **** out of my muscles(too an extent ). Please if you have any more advice or believe there is a way i can tap into the AA stores better let me know. And thank you for all of your help.

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    Quote Originally Posted by clownbaby1 View Post
    Wow, Jjohn that is extrememly genorous and yes i will do exactly as i say, because you know more than i do i'm sure. About 2 weeks before taking x factor i was sore after my workouts, not extremly, but sore nonetheless. I then started the cycle and was expecting severe DOMS, but none came whatsoever, not even on leg day, when i used to not be able to walk the next 2 days.My intensity has stayed the same and i was curious as to why my DOMS decreased instead of increased. I always lifted in the 6-8 rep range for most compound lifts and the 8-10 or 8-12 for most isolation. I am willing to change this to moderate weights at 8-12 for comound and 10-14 for isolation. I will throw in more sets and add in some excercises to "shock" the muscles. From now on my goal is going to be to tear the **** out of my muscles(too an extent ). Please if you have any more advice or believe there is a way i can tap into the AA stores better let me know. And thank you for all of your help.

    Great I can't wait to see how this goes!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by jjohn View Post
    Great I can't wait to see how this goes!!
    tomorrow, is an off day, but i hit legs again on thursday. What do you suggest i do? And ill keep you updated day to day to know if the DOMS are there.Im really hoping the AA already built up, but just didnt get released?

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    Quote Originally Posted by clownbaby1 View Post
    tomorrow, is an off day, but i hit legs again on thursday. What do you suggest i do? And ill keep you updated day to day to know if the DOMS are there.Im really hoping the AA already built up, but just didnt get released?
    This is what I would think.

    How bout that?

    Squats - 3 triple drop sets
    Leg extensions - 3 triple drop sets
    Leg curls - 3 triple drop sets

    Calves - 3 sets 30 reps


    That should be a decent leg day

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    Nice, jjohn!

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    Vpx


    Quote Originally Posted by Usf97j4x4 View Post
    VPX zero carb whey actually has some cinnamon in it..
    VPX 0 Carb is awesome this coming from ATW rep!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by jjohn View Post
    This is what I would think.

    How bout that?

    Squats - 3 triple drop sets
    Leg extensions - 3 triple drop sets
    Leg curls - 3 triple drop sets

    Calves - 3 sets 30 reps


    That should be a decent leg day
    Thats actually very low volume for me. Im used to doing anywhere from 12-20 work sets a workout.(paired muscles, like Chest and tris).

    And when you say triple drop sets, start high and drop by 10-15 lbs each set? And do i take a rest or no?

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    Quote Originally Posted by clownbaby1 View Post
    Thats actually very low volume for me. Im used to doing anywhere from 12-20 work sets a workout.(paired muscles, like Chest and tris).

    And when you say triple drop sets, start high and drop by 10-15 lbs each set? And do i take a rest or no?
    Well, you gotta change it so you feel pain. Whatever works. I want to prove to you that once you tearit down, it is actually quite painfull

    Triple drop set is

    do 1 set 6-10 repd
    drop 60% do til failure
    drop 60% do til failure

    That is 1 drop set.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jjohn View Post
    Well, you gotta change it so you feel pain. Whatever works. I want to prove to you that once you tearit down, it is actually quite painfull

    Triple drop set is

    do 1 set 6-10 repd
    drop 60% do til failure
    drop 60% do til failure

    That is 1 drop set.
    and do 3?

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    Quote Originally Posted by clownbaby1 View Post
    and do 3?
    Yes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by poison View Post
    No, no, I've read something on cinnamon and toxicity too, but what I recall was it depends on the source, like Madagascar cinnamon is ok, but inferior types are not. Something like that.
    YAY!

    Thank you for reaffirming my sanity.

    Now I feel much better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jjohn View Post
    Yes.
    gotcha. Gonna do 20 minutes low intensity cardio tomorrow and hit legs thursday. Ill report back!

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    alright jjohn, i did that exact workout today and followed it by 20 minutes low intensity cardio (walking). Legs were beat right after, but went away after about and hour. Hopefully tomorrow i cant walk!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by clownbaby1 View Post
    alright jjohn, i did that exact workout today and followed it by 20 minutes low intensity cardio (walking). Legs were beat right after, but went away after about and hour. Hopefully tomorrow i cant walk!!!
    Good let's hope for the best!

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    ill let you know tomorrow!

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    Quote Originally Posted by saludable24 View Post
    YAY!

    Thank you for reaffirming my sanity.

    Now I feel much better.
    Some scientists had been concerned about potentially toxic effects of regularly consuming cinnamon. This new research shows that the potentially toxic compounds in cinnamon bark are found primarily in the lipid (fat) soluble fractions and are present only at very low levels in water soluble cinnamon extracts, which are the ones with the insulin-enhancing compounds.
    http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?t...dspice&dbid=68

    How much coumarin does cinnamon contain?

    A rough distinction can be made between two types of cinnamon. Ceylon cinnamon only contains low levels of coumarin which are safe from the Institute’s risk assessment perspective. By contrast, cassia cinnamon contains high levels of coumarin and large amounts of this cinnamon should not, therefore, be eaten.
    Ceylon, madagascar, whatever.

    Selected Questions about coumarin in cinnamon and other foods
    Cross-section of Ceylon und Cassia Cinnamon stricks

    Updated FAQs, 30 October 2006

    Coumarin is a flavouring which is found in higher concentrations in the types of cinnamon grouped together under the name “cassia cinnamon”. Relatively small amounts of coumarin can already damage the liver of particularly sensitive individuals. However, this is not permanent damage. Isolated coumarin may not be added to foods. If coumarin is contained in parts of plants added to flavour foods, then it is limited to two milligrams per kilogram food. Checks by the official food control authorities had shown that this level has been exceeded, in some cases considerably, in cinnamon biscuits. This prompted the Federal Institute for Risk Assessment (BfR) to assess the potential health risk for consumers from coumarin in cinnamon-containing foods and to establish a tolerable daily intake (TDI). Given the high levels of coumarin measured, the Institute advises consumers to only eat moderate amounts of cinnamon-containing foods, particularly in the run-up to Christmas. In response to the numerous inquiries from the media and consumers, BfR has compiled questions and answers on coumarin in cinnamon.
    How can consumers distinguish between Ceylon cinnamon and cassia cinnamon?

    It is almost impossible for consumers to distinguish between Ceylon cinnamon and cassia cinnamon in cinnamon powder. The situation is different in the case of cinnamon sticks. Whereas in the case of cassia cinnamon a relatively thick layer of the bark has been rolled into a stick, the cross-section of a Ceylon cinnamon stick looks more like a cigarette - several thin layers of bark have been rolled up into a cinnamon stick resulting in a comparatively compact cross-section. The origin of the cinnamon is not normally declared on the packaging; sometimes false information has been supplied in the past.
    http://www.bfr.bund.de/cd/8487

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    sorry, i haven't kept you updated for a while, but i did the leg workouts you suggested and the day after i wasn't too sore, but i was nonetheless. Then the next day my ham strings were killing me! Not as bad as i used to get, but they were still sore a hell. Then i had a rest day and back/bis where i incorporated some drop set techniques to get sore, and today my lower back is tight. Hope fully it starts to kick in soon, even though i have like 5 days left.

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    Quote Originally Posted by clownbaby1 View Post
    sorry, i haven't kept you updated for a while, but i did the leg workouts you suggested and the day after i wasn't too sore, but i was nonetheless. Then the next day my ham strings were killing me! Not as bad as i used to get, but they were still sore a hell. Then i had a rest day and back/bis where i incorporated some drop set techniques to get sore, and today my lower back is tight. Hope fully it starts to kick in soon, even though i have like 5 days left.
    Are you using creatine?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jjohn View Post
    Are you using creatine?
    green magnitude, been using it for a while.

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