UFC 67 Post-Fight Discussion

[Beowulf]

I'm curious to hear your thoughts on the night. Griffin/Edgar definitely stole the show. Those guys were awesome, and very complete as the seamlessly transitioned from striking to grappling to striking. Too bad Griffin seemed to be gassing in the 3rd. I think Edgar clearly one, but both were impressive. I think Griffin' could have taken it when he had that kneebar in the closing minute. He had it tight at first, but you could see that Edgar was able to push him down. Once Griffin's hips slid above the knee, moving down toward the shin, the pressure was off. Griffin was in a perfect position to transition to a toe hold. Toe hold's are pretty freaky. I don't doubt that it would have prompted the tap, even with just 30 seconds left. Great fight, nonetheless.

Huerta fight? The knee definitely looked illegal live, but in replay looked ok. My buddy said he thought Huerta's inside knee caught Halverson, not the one that hit the shoulder. I have to see it again.

Cote looked much improved. Training at Sityodtong in Boston has definitely improved his game a lot. His only issue is that for the first time in the UFC he was overly cautious. I look forward to the next fight...so I can boo him again. Just kidding, the crowd was obnoxious.

Rampage vs Eastman was a good fight. I don't know why the crowd was booing. They have zero patience. I don't remember much downtime. #1 thing Page needs to work on in the UFC is an awareness of elbows. Eastman caught him with a few nice standing elbow strikes that Rampage just did not expect. I thought Eastman was pretty impressive, and has great combos with elbows, though I do question his chin. Rampage hits hard, so maybe there is no question there. Regardless, I think Eastman has the potential to do some damage at 205. I'd like to see him fight Rashad, Jardine, Forrest, etc. He is big, strong, and he was aggressive last night. The UFC would be wise to keep him on the roster.

Crocop's debut was impressive, but definitely tarnished by having to chase Eddie in circles. If that fight were in a ring, Eddie would have had nowhere to go, but in the cage it turned into a game of tag. Looked like the LHK just barely skimmed Eddie. Probably didn't matter, b/c Sanchez looked rocked from the first time he got hit.

Silva vs Lutter was important b/c it showed Silva's range. I somewhat wonder if he wasn't content to go to the ground knowing he had a good game there. Anyone who has seen Silva's DQ vs Okami knows that the man can do some damage from his back. That upkick was brutal prior to setting up the triangle. Did anyone notice how unphased Anderson was when he was mounted and taking shots to the face? He did the same thing when he fought Rivera in Cage Rage. He held Rivera's head, ate the shots w/o flinching, and then went on to be the agressor.
I'm leaning toward thinking this was a good fight for Silva considering it really showed the depth of his skills. Subbing a BJJ black belt who was supposed to sub you if it went to the ground is definitely a good way to silence critics. The only real challenges I see for him are from wrestlers.

 

[Alexander]

I think Rivera's career might be over. It seems like he's been KO'd a lot over the last couple years, and he's getting old. Terry Martin is a mean lil SOB at 185. Edgar/Griffin was great. I'd like to see Edgar fight Sherk, I think he would do well. Rampage looked a little better than I expected, but still has a little ways to go, and he knows it which is good. Mirko was Mirko. Anderson got the job done, but I still feel he will be in trouble against Lindland/Filho/Hendo or maybe even Terry Martin. Any good wrestler will take him down at will. Overall I felt it was a pretty boring night. Not awful, just not great especially with all the big names.

 

[Beowulf]

I forgot about Rivera. You're probably right. I don't see him lasting much longer. Martin clearly seems to have heavy hands, but Rivera was just about KO'd from an upkick from Cote. He has 20 fights in his career, but from his admission, was always fighting throughout his life. The brain can only take so much abuse.

 

[jas123]

Silva looked decent but beatable IMO. He was taken down with ease by a depleted looking Lutter. He held tough bjj-wise, but he'll get decisioned or TKOed by a good wrestler, Linland, Tanner (if he wasn't "following the Phish"), maybe Franklin. Tito style GNP might give him some serious problems.

Edgar looked good and Griffin looked gassed toward the end. I missed the last 3 minutes, though, cause my gf was falling asleep at the bar (what a great idea to go to a bar when it's -25 outside).

Rampage gave a solid performance that will hopefully build his confidence.

CC looked dominant and gave Sanchez a solid beating.

Huerta-Halverson was weird and unsatisfying, oh well. It looked like the knee was legal, though.

Cote looked good and dealt with the boos well in his post-fight interview. The crowd was annoying as ****.

 

[Beowulf]

Joe Rogan posted this on the Underground Forum:

Anderson Silva had knee surgery on both knees just 11 weeks ago. That was why he was so easy to take down, and that was why he couldn't squeeze 100% when he had Lutter in the triangle. I ran into his manager after the show and he told me the whole deal. His knees were still very sore. Later that night I ran into Anderson in the hotel, and he was limping like he was just double knee barred.

Crazy ****. If Travis ever had a chance, last night was it. Great fight, either way.

BTW, Rampage's wit was in full effect when he said something about "black on black crime" :toofunny:

Definitely the worst UFC crowd in history.

 

[Alexander]

Joe Rogan posted this on the Underground Forum:


BTW, Rampage's wit was in full effect when he said something about "black on black crime" :toofunny:

Definitely the worst UFC crowd in history.

Yeah, the crowd did seem pretty ****ty. Rampage definitely seemed more like his old self last night. I swear I could feel that black on black crime comment coming.

 

[Rogue Drone]

The only thing I'll add, at this point and probably forever, is that the three of you have become pretty damn good analysts of da game.

 

[Nitrox]

Not much else to add. I think you guys pretty much saw it the same way I did. Ok overall, nothing great.

FWIW I think Huerta's knee got Halverston at the base of the neck because I could swear I saw some head recoil from the strike.

And yes, terrible crowd last night. The more popular the sport gets, the more meatheads there will be complaining if they don't see blood and brain matter in the first 30 seconds. They should pick out one of the loudest booer's with an SPL meter and then tell them they have to do a round with Mirko if they want to stay in the arena...

 

[Rodja]

The thing that I took from that event last night was this: the future of the UFC is the LW division. The Griffin/Edgar fight was one of the best, not only in entertainment, but also technically, fights that I have ever seen.

Silva impressed the hell out of me with his composure and BJJ. Crocop and Rampage did well in their debuts and the post-fight interview was classic (black on black crime).

 

[SJA]

The only thing I'll add, at this point and probably forever, is that the three of you have become pretty damn good analysts of da game.

That's why I came here to get the low down. I missed the fight...but now I got the skinny :bruce3:

Thanks for the info guys.

 

[Sir Savage]

I pretty much agree with everything said.

And I'll just add that I was impressed with Lutter. A lot of people, myself included, didn't think it would get past the first.

 

[Rogue Drone]

I was'nt impressed with Lutter at all, maybe a little on his ability to get the takedown, but he looked disheartened and physically weak, his punches from the mount were practice speed arcing grazers, not straight downward pounders with force. He coulda shoulda been able to end it there with solid strikes and hip control to keep Silva down.

He blew his shot, doubt we'll see him again for a long while.

Eastman is what I suspected he was, a bulked up middleweight, he's strong in the clinch, with the middleweight's jaw and neck muscles that will get punched out by a good striking LHW.

 

[Sir Savage]

Hmm. Good points.

What about Machida??? Anyone know how he looked? I can't believe they never aired his fight. I was pissed.

 

[size]

I have only seen the Crocop fight but I will give my opinion anyway.

Sanchez looked like a fighter that knew he had little to no chance of victory as he did not look confident at all. Crocop had to chase him around the ring in order to end it. While I can understand why Sanchez did not want to get hit, I just do not think this is the proper approach for a professional heavyweight. Crocop looked solid and ready for business as usual.

The "booing" by the UFC crowd is typical. I get frustrated often when I watch UFC events as the crowds seem to always boo and jeer. It seems obvious to me that the UFC crowd is cheering more for punishment and blood than it is for the skill and tactics that a fighter uses. The UFC should be ashamed of the crowd they are attracting.

On rest of the fights, I can only comment about what I read, but maybe some of you can confirm or deny it.
Hoger vs Machida- My thoughts, Hoger is a tough guy and a surviver. I know alot of guys do not like him but if you look at his losses they are all via decision. So I definitely think he has potential. I was happy to read especially after discussing it in another thread that Machida used LEG KICKS! From what I have read, these leg kicks were destroying Hoger and his attack.

Cote vs Scott- I think Cote is a good fighter. He is able to stirke and grapple so I think it is a good win for him.

 

[Mulletsoldier]

I have only seen the Crocop fight but I will give my opinion anyway.

Sanchez looked like a fighter that knew he had little to no chance of victory as he did not look confident at all. Crocop had to chase him around the ring in order to end it. While I can understand why Sanchez did not want to get hit, I just do not think this is the proper approach for a professional heavyweight. Crocop looked solid and ready for business as usual.

The "booing" by the UFC crowd is typical. I get frustrated often when I watch UFC events as the crowds seem to always boo and jeer. It seems obvious to me that the UFC crowd is cheering more for punishment and blood than it is for the skill and tactics that a fighter uses. The UFC should be ashamed of the crowd they are attracting.

On rest of the fights, I can only comment about what I read, but maybe some of you can confirm or deny it.
Hoger vs Machida- My thoughts, Hoger is a tough guy and a surviver. I know alot of guys do not like him but if you look at his losses they are all via decision. So I definitely think he has potential. I was happy to read especially after discussing it in another thread that Machida used LEG KICKS! From what I have read, these leg kicks were destroying Hoger and his attack.

Cote vs Scott- I think Cote is a good fighter. He is able to stirke and grapple so I think it is a good win for him.

I agree on what everyone has said about the crowd issue, I personally like to call it the 'Billy Madison Effect'. You see it happening with most sports, as it begins to attain 'mass appeal' media coverage those individuals who only wish to view the end result, and the not the journey like we do, begin to dominate the viewing public. I think of Golf, and the crowds Tiger attracts; likewise, they do not appreciate his swing, or how he approaches each shot, where he leaves himself, or how he dissects a green, they are just drunken fools who like to scream 'WAAAAHOOO' whenever he hits a drive or makes a putt. Conversely, they do not wish appreciate a slick transition from a guard to a sub, nor do they appreciate how a HK is set-up, only that it is landed and caused somebody pain.


*Mullet removes himself from Philosophical soapbox*

 

[jas123]

The thing that I took from that event last night was this: the future of the UFC is the LW division. The Griffin/Edgar fight was one of the best, not only in entertainment, but also technically, fights that I have ever seen.

No doubt. There are great LW coming out of the woodwork. Just when you think you know who will rise to the top (Griffin), another great one shows up and beats him. Sherk, Franca, Pulver, maybe BJ, Fisher, Lauzon, Edgar, Griffin, Kenflo, ...

 

[Rodja]

No doubt. There are great LW coming out of the woodwork. Just when you think you know who will rise to the top (Griffin), another great one shows up and beats him. Sherk, Franca, Pulver, maybe BJ, Fisher, Lauzon, Edgar, Griffin, Kenflo, ...

I think Fisher and Pulver are slightly overrated, but with BJ, Sherk, Franca, and the youngsters (Griffin, Edgar, Lauzon), this division will be constantly rotating champions (unless BJ gets off his ass, then he will own).

 

[Beowulf]

I never saw the Dan Lauzon/Fisher fight, but I heard Dan took it to Spencer until a flying knee stopped him in his tracks. Not bad for an 18 year old kid with less than 10 months as a pro facing a top lw contender in his UFC debut.

I'm definitely a fan of the LW's. They just need to stomp out this Sherk dude ( :nutkick: to Savage )

I'd love to hear more opinions on Silva's ground performance. I'm still a bit torn. If the knee surgery claim is true, I'm definitely very impressed.

 

[Beowulf]

UFC salaries definitely appear to be on the rise. I'm glad to see that guys like Machida and Eastman ended up with a pretty nice payday, and Rampage is definitely making some cash. Noone comes close to Mirko, though.

Here are the official numbers (not including bonuses, etc) as reported to the NSAC

Title Match & Main Event Fighters

-Anderson Silva: $71,000 (3rd UFC fight; defeated Travis Lutter)

-Travis Lutter: $18,000 (5th UFC fight; lost to Anderson Silva)


Main Card Fighters

-Mirko Cro Cop: $350,000 flat fee (1st UFC fight; defeated Eddie Sanchez)

-Quinton Jackson: $170,000 (1st UFC fight; defeated Marvin Eastman)

-Eddie Sanchez: $30,000 flat fee (2nd UFC fight; lost to Mirko Cro Cop)

-Marvin Eastman: $30,000 (3rd UFC fight; lost to Quinton Jackson)

-Patrick Cote: $20,000 (5th UFC fight; defeated Scott Smith)

-Scott Smith: $12,000 (3rd UFC fight; lost to Patrick Cote)

-Roger Huerta: $12,000 (2nd UFC fight; defeated John Halverson)

-John Halverson: $3,000 (1st UFC fight; lost to Roger Huerta)


Preliminary Match Fighters

-Lyoto Machida: $36,000 (1st UFC fight; defeated Sam Hoger)

-Jorge Rivera: $12,000 (7th UFC fight; lost to Terry Martin)

-Tyson Griffin: $9,000 (2nd UFC fight; lost to Frank Edgar)

-Terry Martin: $8,000 (3rd UFC fight; defeated Jorge Rivera)

-Sam Hoger: $7,000 (4th UFC fight; lost to Lyoto Machida)

-Frank Edgar: $6,000 (1st UFC fight; defeated Tyson Griffin)

-Dustin Hazelett: $6,000 (2nd UFC fight; defeated Diego Saraiva)

-Diego Saraiva: $3,000 (1st UFC fight; lost to Dustin Hazelett)

Disclosed Fighter Payroll: $803,000

MMA WEEKLY - Your #1 Source for Daily MMA News, Interviews, Multimedia, and More

 

[Rodja]

I never saw the Dan Lauzon/Fisher fight, but I heard Dan took it to Spencer until a flying knee stopped him in his tracks. Not bad for an 18 year old kid with less than 10 months as a pro facing a top lw contender in his UFC debut.

I'm definitely a fan of the LW's. They just need to stomp out this Sherk dude ( :nutkick: to Savage )

I'd love to hear more opinions on Silva's ground performance. I'm still a bit torn. If the knee surgery claim is true, I'm definitely very impressed.

Silva's grappling was reminiscent of Salaverry/Riggs. Silva was on his back and he used an upkick to set up a triangle. Lutter blocked it perfectly, but he still out BJJed Lutter.

 

[jas123]

Lutter blocked it perfectly, but he still out BJJed Lutter.

If I remember the replay correctly, he blocked the upkick with his face.

Look at how much money they had to throw at Sanchez to take his beating. $30,000 just to step in the cage with Mirko. Somehow I think he would have got more like 3000-6000 for a normal loss.

 

[Beowulf]

I know I'm beating this to death, but I just watched Silva/Lutter again. I think my final opinion is that Silva was in fact impressive on the ground. His takedown d is definitely suspect, but maybe it doesn't matter too much. The only real shot Lutter had was when he got the mount. Silva stayed utterly composed and was unphased by Travis' shots. He took his time, stabilized Lutter's body with his arms (possibly leaving them up there as armbar bait), then kicked Lutter off when he had the opening. That weak ass armabar attempt Rogan was criticizing Lutter for was actually a last ditch effort to take advantage of the mount. At that point he already knew he was getting tossed. I watched it frame by frame, and it is very clear that Silva has firm footing on Lutter's chest when Lutter went for the arm.

So I think this was impressive, b/c it showed Silva's ability to maintain his composure and escape a dangerous spot--essential characteristics for a champ.

He still could be in trouble with a strong wrestler/GnP.

 

[size]

UFC salaries definitely appear to be on the rise.

I think some of the guys received a higher salary b/c of the contracts that they previously had with the WFA which was purchased by UFC, so this would include Jackson and Machida.

 

[Rodja]

If I remember the replay correctly, he blocked the upkick with his face.

Look at how much money they had to throw at Sanchez to take his beating. $30,000 just to step in the cage with Mirko. Somehow I think he would have got more like 3000-6000 for a normal loss.

I meant that he blocked the triangle by doing the telephone move.

 

[exnihilo]

I know I'm beating this to death, but I just watched Silva/Lutter again. I think my final opinion is that Silva was in fact impressive on the ground. His takedown d is definitely suspect, but maybe it doesn't matter too much. The only real shot Lutter had was when he got the mount. Silva stayed utterly composed and was unphased by Travis' shots. He took his time, stabilized Lutter's body with his arms (possibly leaving them up there as armbar bait), then kicked Lutter off when he had the opening. That weak ass armabar attempt Rogan was criticizing Lutter for was actually a last ditch effort to take advantage of the mount. At that point he already knew he was getting tossed. I watched it frame by frame, and it is very clear that Silva has firm footing on Lutter's chest when Lutter went for the arm.

So I think this was impressive, b/c it showed Silva's ability to maintain his composure and escape a dangerous spot--essential characteristics for a champ.

He still could be in trouble with a strong wrestler/GnP.

Okay, I am quite sure the triangle was purely a lucky break for silva, you can tell he tried to go back to guard but lutter stacked on him, blocking his right leg and he took advantage of the opening. lutter definitely didn't respect silva's ground game and was trying to overpower him, and got caught.

As for the armbar, that was another case of lutter not respecting silva's ground. Had travis just leaned forward and posted on his left arm he would have been able to keep the mount, but instead he takes an armbar with NO setup (you can tell because he rises from his right knee, this wasn't a last ditch effort to save the mount).

I may be the only person that thinks this, but lutter probably has the skill set to beat silva, but he needed to play it right. If he had gone in there relaxed, respected silva's ground a bit more, taken his time and played a slow, deliberate game he probably would have won. He was able to take silva down with no problems, he was able to pass pretty well, and if he set it up properly I'm sure he could have locked a submission.

 

[Alexander]

Okay, I am quite sure the triangle was purely a lucky break for silva, you can tell he tried to go back to guard but lutter stacked on him, blocking his right leg and he took advantage of the opening. lutter definitely didn't respect silva's ground game and was trying to overpower him, and got caught.

As for the armbar, that was another case of lutter not respecting silva's ground. Had travis just leaned forward and posted on his left arm he would have been able to keep the mount, but instead he takes an armbar with NO setup (you can tell because he rises from his right knee, this wasn't a last ditch effort to save the mount).

I may be the only person that thinks this, but lutter probably has the skill set to beat silva, but he needed to play it right. If he had gone in there relaxed, respected silva's ground a bit more, taken his time and played a slow, deliberate game he probably would have won. He was able to take silva down with no problems, he was able to pass pretty well, and if he set it up properly I'm sure he could have locked a submission.

You're definitely not the only person that thinks that. I agree with everything you stated.

 

[size]

I may be the only person that thinks this, but lutter probably has the skill set to beat silva, but he needed to play it right. If he had gone in there relaxed, respected silva's ground a bit more, taken his time and played a slow, deliberate game he probably would have won.

I think Lutter can beat Silva and I even incorrectly predicted it.
I think a big issue with this fight was the problem that Lutter had at making weight and I imagine this definitely impacted his abilities and judgement in the ring. However, I will not state that he "probably" would have won as I do not think that is fair to Silva.

 

[Beowulf]

Lutter definitely has the potential to beat Silva, but I hope he doesn't Anderson is so much more exciting. I was surprised to see how much trouble he had straightening Lutters right arm to finish that triangle. Regardless, Lutter could have gone to sleep if that flying knee hit about 2 inches lower, so in a rematch it would still be a huge toss up between Lutter getting the takedown and Anderson getting the KO.

Was anyone half expecting Silva to kick Lutter in the face after that first hideous takedown attempt? Silva definitely could have capitalized on that more.

 

[Beowulf]

I saw Machida/Hoger last night. Machida looked very impressive. He basically toyed with Hoger for 15 minutes. Great hands, kicks, knees, a nice sweep, nice takedowns, great ground control. He's an exciting addition to the UFC.

If anyone wants the fight, PM me.

 

[psywzrd]

Definitely the worst UFC crowd in history.

I take great offense to this statement since I was there!!!

 

[Sir Savage]

I saw Machida/Hoger last night. Machida looked very impressive. He basically toyed with Hoger for 15 minutes. Great hands, kicks, knees, a nice sweep, nice takedowns, great ground control. He's an exciting addition to the UFC.

If anyone wants the fight, PM me.

Yeah, he did look pretty good. Thanks again.

Watching him fight in the Octagon, it struck me how similar he is to Liddell. His footwork, stance, and punching style are very similar, IMO. He throws more kicks and uses more of his ground game, though.

 

[Beowulf]

Yeah, but he definitely seems to lack Liddell's power...but who doesn't. Machida seems to be very well-rounded. He definitely had the Iceman composure. Very professional.

I don't know how good Hoger is, but he looked like an amateur. The only thing he did well was take punishment.

 

[jas123]

Both Machido and Liddell have a strong base in various types of Karate, right? Kempo, maybe?

 

[Rogue Drone]

Liddell was from Kempo, Machida from Shotokan, most of the K-1 ex-karate guys studied Kyokushin.

Hoger was not good on TUF, word was that he has improved, but I've not yet seen that fight, he still has the sausage tits, not pretty.

 

[brass monkey]

Why dosent Chuck give his kenpo its props. He has the tattoo but other than that ive never heard him mention it. They announce him as a kickboxer.

 

[Rogue Drone]

Your average UFC fan does'nt care to learn subtleties like Kempo from Kyokushin, all they want to see is a KO from a badass Kickboxer, pass the Doritos and get me another cold one when you're up, dude.

We, the infamous hardcore fans, know Pride, they think that's that gay march thing.

 

[stxnas]

I don't know how good Hoger is, but he looked like an amateur. The only thing he did well was take punishment.

Ha ha...I just got this fight tonight and have yet to watch it...sounds like I'll enjoy it though.

 

[exnihilo]

I saw Machida/Hoger last night. Machida looked very impressive. He basically toyed with Hoger for 15 minutes. Great hands, kicks, knees, a nice sweep, nice takedowns, great ground control. He's an exciting addition to the UFC.

If anyone wants the fight, PM me.

Machida has a very unconventional style, looks like he'd be the type of guy that wouldn't be very much fun to fight, mostly just annoying.

 

[Beowulf]

Machida has a very unconventional style, looks like he'd be the type of guy that wouldn't be very much fun to fight, mostly just annoying.

That's probably his greatest advantage--he doesn't fight like everyone else. I did notice that he tended to back straight up when attacked. That could cause him problems in the future.

 

[Rodja]

Machida is the only current MMAer that uses Kyukoshin Karate for his stand-up. His stance is different from everyone else, but he has very crisp striking.

 

[exnihilo]

Yeah, he did look pretty good. Thanks again.

Watching him fight in the Octagon, it struck me how similar he is to Liddell. His footwork, stance, and punching style are very similar, IMO. He throws more kicks and uses more of his ground game, though.

The two fight totally differently though. Machida plays a very unconventional game where he runs away a lot, tries to get opponents to overcommit themselves then he capitalizes, whereas chuck is a slow and steady counterpuncher who tends to stand and brawl.

 

[jas123]

I haven't watch Machida in a while. Could his style frustrate A. Silva in the standup? May be too early to say.