Carnage with L-Histidine?
- 06-20-2007, 09:52 AM
Carnage with L-Histidine?
Carnage does a solid job of providing 4,500mg of Beta-Alanine per serving. As Carnosine is a multi-functional dipeptide made up of Beta-Alanine and L-Histidine, though, I would like to know if you would add L-Histidine to Carnage any time in the future, or if you think Carnage provides adequate intra-muscular Carnosine as-is, without L-Histidine.
Thanks in advance for your response.
- 06-20-2007, 10:45 PM
That’s a great question! I do feel Carnage boosts carnosine levels adequately without the addition of l-histidine. In my opinion this is due to the fact that histidine is already quite abundant in skeletal muscle and beta alanine is not. Research shows that it’s beta alanine that drives carnosine synthesis and not histidine. I think it really comes down to beta alanine and carnosine synthetase.
I think if someone is living a strict vegan lifestyle and not consuming complete proteins (or loads of rice, wheat and rye) then l-histidine supplementation may be beneficial when taking beta alanine for performance. For all of us who still consume whey protein, fish, eggs and meat I believe we get ample histidine levels built up in the muscle.
With the current price of L-Histidine the price of Carnage would have to increase nearly $7 dollars at retail for a measly 500mg of Histidine per serving. This in my opinion would be doing the customer a major disservice by charging more for a product that doesn’t perform any better.
- 06-21-2007, 10:18 AM
Thanks for the contribution. I agree the potential price increase hardly justifies the addition of L-Histidine.
I have another question, though. I know the optimal daily intake of L-Carnosine should be around 1000mg. As you know, the body automatically metabolizes lower amounts of L-Carnosine into an inert, non-functional, substance. What isn't clear to me though, is how much Beta-Alanine one needs to ingest to get the equivalent of 1000mg of L-Carnosine. Could you share this information?
06-22-2007, 09:42 PM
I wish I could give you a rock solid answer here. In my opinion it all comes down to an individuals levels of carnosine synthetase and its efficiency in that person. The problem here is that there are too many variables that figure into the equation.
Research shows that it takes between 3.2 and 6.4 grams of beta alanine to increase carnosine stores to the point in which performance is enhanced. It appears to take more beta alanine to increase intramuscular carnosine stores enough for subsequent athletic performance because of the ratio of carnosine synthetase and carnosinase enzyme. Carnosine is constantly being broken down by carnosinase. It will take more BA supplementation to offset the balance in the favor or larger pools of carnosine stores. By supplementing with larger amounts of BA you are effectively staying ahead of the carnosinase enzymes ability to break down the large stores.
06-23-2007, 11:33 AM
Thanks for your note. The fact that Beta-Alanine-Carnosine conversion rates are different from athlete to athlete is probably the reason no clear prescriptions are available in the literature. Yet, if between 3.2gr and 6.4gr of Beta-Alanine should be ingested for performance enhancement, then Carnage (or simply additional Beta-Alanine) appears to be recommended while using Ragnarok. Is this presumption correct?
06-23-2007, 03:51 PM
In the study regarding 3.2 to 6.4 grams being optimal for performance it did show that 6.4 grams really wasn't any more effective than 4.5 grams of BA. I personally don't think that anyone under 250 pounds needs any more than 4.5 grams daily to increase carnosine levels for performance.
06-23-2007, 04:59 PM
I considered the two-scoop option to be able to ingest sufficient Beta-Alanine, but would not want to take 9gr of Creatine (amount in two scoops of Ragnarok) daily. I consider 4.5gr to 5.0gr per day sufficient, especially as the Creatine forms in Ragnarok are of the rather more advanced and better bioavailable forms. Consequently, additional Beta-Alanine supplementation, from, say Carnage, in addition to one scoop of Ragnarok, sounds to me like an optimal path to follow.
06-23-2007, 05:23 PM
I agree. Even if you take one scoop of Ragnarok it allows you to reduce you dose of Carnage to a half serving making the bottle last 80 days. I currently use 1 scoop of Ragnarok, 3 capsules of Carnage, 3 caplets of Cordygen5 preworkout on training days. On non training days I take 3 Capsules of Kreaceps-XS, 4 capsules of Citruvol and 3 caplets of Cordygen5. This is working very well for me right now without overdosing on anything.
Have your samples arrived yet? I did send another package addressed from me instead of Millennium to see if that will get there. Keep me in the loop.
06-23-2007, 05:42 PM
Thanks for asking after the samples. Unfortunately, I have not received anything yet. Thanks for sending a second batch. Usually, if the Customs Unit has any problems with the contents of any particular parcel, the addressee would be notified. One then has the option of having the parcel returned to sender or permitting the Customs Unit to destroy the contents. I have not received any notification of any type yet.
You probably sent the items normal mail, rather than airmail. In such a case, it might take up to four weeks for delivery. Airmail delivery usually occurs within seven to ten working days.
I will definitely keep you in the loop.
06-26-2007, 12:29 PM
I will return home on Saturday and would try the samples over the weekend. Recht herzlichen Dank!
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