Post your AndroGel Experience Here
- 05-11-2008, 07:18 PM
- 05-11-2008, 07:48 PM
- 05-11-2008, 08:14 PM
I cannot say that about T-creme that I also tried.
With that said, any transdermal delivery will raise DHT.
So, I think that transdermal delivery is only for someone who have low DHT and need to raise it.
Some do not test for DHT to avoid discussion, I do not buy that.
I did use Androgel over 2 years, but only because taht was my only choice.
Now I have a choice and use, T shots and HCG and Arimidex/Anastrozole/Liquidex.
To have a success with Androgel one have to apply it in very small doses, it flows between fingers right on a floor. Hard to see, source of endless speculations why it does not show in the blood.
05-11-2008, 09:55 PM
Any transdermal is fine
05-12-2008, 10:40 AM
Androgel worked okay for me for a while, but then it stopped. Not sure if I had problems absorbing through the skin. That was the doc's guess. Went to Testim - Eventually, had the same problem. Went to compounded cream - Eventually, the same problem. Now I'm on shots. They're working well, but for some reason, the T seems to be attenuating quickly after a few days. Not sure how he's going to address this. Maybe two shots weekly? We'll see. I have another virtual appt. with him in a couple of weeks.
05-12-2008, 01:47 PM
02-18-2010, 02:39 PM
Androgel is strong ****. I alcohol the whole area b4 i apply it n it's absorbed even better. I was using 3 paks a day(15grams) for a few days, but my BP went to high, and sex drive was crazy. Back to 2 paks(10grams) a day,may have to lower to 1 for a few days to get BP to go down. Started taking Cayenne with Garlic n Hawthorne Berry, should help. I eat excellent diet n do 30 min Cardio after each heavy lifting session. Took 3 months to work, but once it kicks in watch out. My BP was 156/88 at Endo's office yesterday, 3 paks Androgel is too much, sticking with 2 from now on. I was gettign Steroid like pumps on 3 paks a day, even started getting them with 2 paks recently.
Got a Blood Test yesterday, so I'l post my Test levels as soon as i get them.
02-18-2010, 02:50 PM
02-18-2010, 02:59 PM
I'm using t-cream, 20gram (20%) and my BP is borderline high, a bit lower than yours, around 120/88. Just started Hawthorne, but now I am looking into ARBs. I don't like these headaches that I tend to get sometimes during my workouts, plus it's been effecting overall stamina.
Compounded T-cream has been working great for me. I'm applying to forearms and getting expected ranges even several hours after applying.
I pay on average about $90 per month for the compounded cream, maybe a little more. Haven't tried to get it covered by insurance yet.
02-18-2010, 03:56 PM
02-18-2010, 04:23 PM
I'll check when I'm home and get back to you. All I know off the top of my head is that it's a compounding pharmacy in Florida. I was pretty impressed that such a small amount of cream is working for me, I figured there would be some absorption issues with only 1mg cream being used with 200mg T, but that's not the case.
02-18-2010, 04:26 PM
As JanSz mentioned A-gel will raise DHT. This is because it interacts with the 5-AR enzyme in the skin. Also, because it is only at 1% concentration, that means you have to apply it over a fairly large area of skin.
A solution may be to get 2.5% testosterone gel from a compounding pharmacy (also a lot cheaper than A-gel), in order to apply less gel, and thus use less skin.
Of course, the higher % you go, the less you may be able to absorb it, so it's a double-edged sword.
People with low thyroid hormones sometimes have even more trouble absorbing it.
Patches have a higher incidence of skin irritation than the gels.
With gels, take great care not to transfer the substance to wife and kids via direct skin contact with application area.
Compared to daily hassle of messy gels, injections rock.
02-18-2010, 04:29 PM
Phil, I guess I must be lucky then. I am very happy to have switched from t-shots to t-cream. I am using 20% t-cream since the switch, and my levels are at 1500+, only applying a very tiny amount of cream (1mL) everyday. When I got these levels tested, it was about 3 hours after application.
02-18-2010, 04:39 PM
Wow, that's some strong results! What's the cream's base consist of?
02-18-2010, 05:06 PM
It's compounded, so I think it's phlo-gel? It's a white cream, very dense. I've been applying it to forearms and nads though for a stronger result in T and DHT. My DHT was too low on 250mg T-cyp per week so I switched to this and immediately started applying it to these places. DHT is too high when applying t-cream to nads daily though.
02-19-2010, 02:42 AM
02-19-2010, 01:45 PM
Yeah my blood pressure is not too different than before TRT but I can tell when it spikes now. Resting BP is very similar to before. Been taking hawthorne extract lately for it, but I am looking into ARB medications. ARBs themselves sound like they'd be great for many different things.
I should mention, that I mistyped that I was taking 1mg of cream per day, I meant 1mL.
Jan, I checked out the pump last night and could not see anything about which base was used. I will have to contact the compounding pharmacy and ask them. I am guessing since it's a white cream and not alcohol based, that it must be PLO-gel.
02-19-2010, 02:31 PM
02-19-2010, 02:32 PM
02-19-2010, 03:37 PM
BP spikes = headaches, especially noticeable when not properly hydrated
ARBs relax the muscle located directly around your arteries which allow them to dilate and lowers blood pressure.
03-03-2010, 02:54 AM
I'm on 20% compounded gel.
I apply 3ml per day. 150mg in the morning and 150mg at night.
HCG 100iu ED.
My last labs:
Free-T, above the chart
E2 was top of the range.
I'm now on A-dex .25mg once to twice per week...however I think my e2 was only elevated because of too much DHEA supplementation. So, I just pop the A-dex whenever I start feeling bloaty/anxious. I try to stick it out as long as possible without estrogen control...the extra E2 is good for the joints/igf-1.
I've gained 15lbs without changing much. Sex drive is nuts. Everything is great. Ran a cycle of havoc on top of this last month and gained another 10lbs.
I like this stuff, but is so inconsistent. Everytime i apply it, I get a huge rush. It feels like caffeine kicking in hardcore except without the good/dopamine feeling. My body gets jittery, shortness of breath, and strong heart beat. Its last for a good hour with some facial flushing. Then, later in the day I'm pumped up and erections pop up all the time.
For me, my SHBG is so low that I must apply the gel twice per day. This explains the huge rush. I uptake the cream rapidly and it shoots my T sky high because of the high bioavailability due to the low SHBG. Consequentially, the T wears off quicker. So, my day is a two peak roller coaster. Big rush in the morning, and big rush at night. I've learned to live with it...its worth the flucuations. It keeps things interesting..because I await the applications. Sometimes I throw in an extra pump before a workout.
Ideally, I'd like to have the consistent delivery of shots, but then my E2 would be higher and I'd have lower DHT. I'm worried that coming down from the high DHT will cause me to feel "less" on the shots.
03-03-2010, 07:15 AM
MonsterBox, what is your DHT?
I've been on Androgel for 6 months now as the compounded cream was way too inconsistent and I prefer not to do shots. Androgel works great at increasing my test to a consistent level 900-1100 (from 300-400's, I'm 53) but has also quadrupled my DHT from 70's to 240's and I am noticing the hair shedding and pee flow shrinkage (though my PSA remains .04).
Androgel is 10% so I have to spread my 6 pumps over a lot of skin = DHT increase. I assume at your 20% you have to spread less gel over less skin, so less DHT. Is that compounded for you? I know Androgel is only available at 10%.
So while I like the effectiveness and consistent high T I'm getting with Androgel, I'm trying to get my DHT back under control without resorting to finisteride, etc. (I do take saw palmetto, etc)
Any ideas/suggestions would be appreciated.
03-03-2010, 06:51 PM
I do not know my DHT. The doc hasn't checked it yet. I'm very young so I doubt high DHT would cause me issues now. I haven't noticed pee shrinkage etc. I have noticed a huge increase in hair growth all over my body.
The 20% is compounded for me and its a gel, not a cream. Its supposed to be pretty much the same thing as androgel according to my doc.
If you DHT is too high, why not switch to shots? I dont think theres an effective way of lowering DHT besides finasteride. They may a topical 5-alpha-reductase inhibitor that you can apply to you scalp, but this is going to mask the effects, not lower the DHT obviously. Have you ever thought that maybe the DHT level is normal for you, and you've just been missing out on it from your hpta disorder? Maybe you were predisposed to the shedding anyhow and you just didn't have enough T to cause the issue.
03-03-2010, 07:11 PM
DHT only speeds up male pattern baldness. If someone is not predisposed to it, then nothing much to worry about hair wise.
03-03-2010, 07:46 PM
And, like I said above, it can also cause benign prostate enlargement at 3x or 4x "normal" levels.
I know shots would avoid the DHT issue but I like the natural pulse of the gel.
03-04-2010, 11:01 AM
Yeah same, I am really liking the cream I'm using. I'm liking the big boost in DHT as well. 250-280 is super high though. Would a concentrated cream be better for you maybe? You can get it in a very small amount (1mL) which covers WAY less body area, and use it on an area where not much DHT conversion occurs (forearms) or similar, tops of feet maybe. I'm using a 20% compounded white cream (but I think it's plo gel) and 1 pump = 1mL / 200mg, which is a pretty high dose in a tiny amount of cream. I could not imagine spreading a large amount of 20% androgel over my body.. that's asking for trouble with DHT.
03-04-2010, 01:30 PM
Could I ask what pharmacy you use and the specifics of your cream? (you can pm me). Maybe I could ask my doc to try that compound.
03-04-2010, 01:41 PM
Yes I can PM you once I'm home and have the bottle in front of me. Are you also on HCG? Just wondering, because the HCG alone should be enough to get test levels to at least 350-450. Even a small absorption rate should then get your test levels high enough. That's crazy that rubbing onto forearms wasn't working for you though. How long after application were you testing levels?
I usually rub my forearms together until I feel heat from friction and it's completely absorbed. I do this after a hot shower. I had levels tested 3 hours after application and my levels were at 1500+ but I am also taking 1000iu of HCG per week.
03-04-2010, 02:27 PM
03-04-2010, 03:18 PM
Doc was going to drop my Androgel a little and add HCG and see what happens.
The creams I tried were almond oil and one was jojoba oil. I think the absorption vehicle may have been problem.
03-04-2010, 03:53 PM
Yeah I am almost certain mine is PLO gel but contacting the pharmacy would be best. You could try HCG with 10% plo gel / 1mL concentration. This should get your TT to about 1000 and the lower volume of gel should reduce DHT.
Another option is to use HCG again with the 20% compounded plo gel, but only use 1/2 pump (1/2 mL), which should greatly reduce the amount of skin coverage.
03-04-2010, 04:17 PM
The problem with Androgel (seems to me) is that with an effective dose (6-8 pumps) you are spreading it over one hell of a large area - both shoulders upper chest and flanks. And Androgel only comes at 10%, unfortunately no 20% which would mean less coverage area. I believe that application over a large skin area = increased DHT (also E, but amazingly my E has stayed in the low 20's throughout!). I was amazed at how many DON'T test for DHT while on Androgel - many just test for TT and E. Like I said, I certainly love the TT and DHT jump, and libido is crazy - but I'd also like to keep peeing and keep my hair! And like MonsterBox advised, no way I want to add finesteride, etc.
03-08-2010, 12:26 PM
03-08-2010, 08:22 PM
so heres what I've always wondered. What "feels" better...I wonder whos been at 1000ng/dl on cream and then switched to 1000ng/dl on injections. Do they feel any difference in sex drive, mood, androgenic type nature?
Everyone says that injections are better, but mainly these people are on injections because cream didn't work, so of course its better.
03-08-2010, 10:53 PM
Was using Testogel, was better than capsules for me, had good high levels at the start but with high DHT and E2 conversion, but after 2 years gradually declined, after 3 years I stopped absorbing it, now on enth.
Too early to say what feels better will be able to give my opinion in either 1-2 months or possibly 4 months if I find I need to go back on arimidex.
Although I have never been at 1000ng/dl highest I hit was about 850.
03-09-2010, 07:28 AM
In the meantime I may have stumbled a solution. I had some 20% cream lying around. You only have to apply a small amount to forearms for max dose - unfortunately I had absorption problems with the cream. So I applied the cream to a small area of my forearms as before but this time I added a small pump of Androgel over top and within a few minutes everything seemed absorbed and my forearms were completely dry. Before, with cream only, my forearms would remain "greasy" for an hour or two as if it was having a hard time absorbing.
If this works perhaps it will raise my T without the skyrocketing DHT I get by slathering gobs of AndroGel over half my body. Maybe the Androgel will provide the vehicle the cream needs for absorption? I don't think the AndroGel would "alter" the cream do you?
Anyway I am seeing my doc on Friday and will discuss with him. If he says OK then I will continue this "trial" and retest very soon and let you know.
03-09-2010, 05:57 PM
I use 1.5ML in the morning and 1.5ML at night. I was having absorbtion issues. It would go right into my skin and then leave a "powder" behind. So, I started applying rubbing alochol all over my application areas and then applying the cream. It goes in immediately with no residue or anything left over. I also feel it kick in much harder.
I'm not sure if my gel is the same as androgel, but my gel is powered by Isopropyl-Alcohol. When you get into the 20% stronger compounds, there is not enough alochol per click to transfer the cream. Applying the rubbing alochol increases the transfer greatly.
03-10-2010, 03:15 PM
Oldgator, I think you are on to something. I have always had absorption issues with the cream. I had a box of A gel laying around. I put my cream on and then one pack of A gel on top of it. My levels went up significantly.
Monster, you use 600mg per day? Damn, that's a lot. What was your last blood test showing your test levels? Everyone on here thought I was crazy when I was using 300mg per day!
03-11-2010, 06:04 PM
03-11-2010, 08:44 PM
In the above post, you stated you have 200mg/ml and applied 3ml's per day. Did you switch to 100mg/ml cream?
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