User88777 History - request feedback Pls

[user88777]

Hey guys. I wanted to start a new thread, post my complete history and get some feedback. Below are the results and ranges I have available for blood tests, my treatment progression from January through now, etc. JanSz, thanks so much for your feedback, I really appreciate it!

I am currently following JanSz suggested E3D protocol of 42mg Test, 250 IU HCG and 1/4 arimidex. I switched to this from my 100mg/week plus days 5 and 6 HCG 3 weeks ago - and at the same time added 1/2mg arimidex E3D and then switched to 1/4m armidex 1 week ago (morning wood went away)

When I added the armidex my issue with a bloated face went away rapidly, which I was happy with, and my sex drive increased.

JanSz, you mentioned in my other post based on SHBG levels I may be under dosing the testosterone - what do you think?

Pre-treatment (January 2007):

FSH 4.4 [1.6 to 8]
LH 0.8 [1.5 to 9.3]
Total Testosterone 166 [241 to 1100]
Testosterone Free 26 [34 to 194]
Testosterone BioAv. 57 [84 to 402]
Estrogens Total 159 [<130]
Estradiol 23 [13 to 54]

Pre-treatment, second set of tests by endo 2/5/2007:

FSH 4.9 [1.6 to 8]
LH 3.1 [1.5 to 9.3]
Total Testosterone 131 [241 to 1100]
Testosterone Free 34 [34 to 194]

2/21 on 5gm androgel daily:
Total Testosterone 597 [241 to 1100]

3/10/2007, still on 5gm androgel daily:

FSH <.7 [1.6 to 8]
Total Testosterone 291 [241 to 1100]
Testosterone Free 36.3 [34 to 194]

4/9/2007, still on 5gm androgel:

SHBG 47 [5 to 49]
Total Testosterone 553 [241 to 1100]
Testosterone Free 58 [34 to 194]
Testosterone BioAv. 129 [84 to 402]
Estradiol Ultrasen. 3 [< or + 29] – Don’t believe this number, neither did Dr. John

5/29/2007, now 100mg/week test-c injection

SHBG 43 [5 to 49]
Total Testosterone 1421 [241 to 1100]
Testosterone Free 191 [34 to 194]
Testosterone BioAv. 434 [84 to 402]
Estrogens Total 189 [<130]
Estradiol Ultrasen. 2 [< or + 29]

6/9/2007 on100mg/week test-c injection
Total Testosterone 1048 [241 to 1100]

No blood work since then...will be re-running complete labs plus Rhein labs once I'm stable on current regiment.

 

[pmgamer18]

Did any one say your Secondary and could have a Pituitary Problem. Low LH and FHS on your first tests with low T and good E2 show me this. If I were you I would look into an MRI to rule out a tumor.
FSH 4.4 [1.6 to 8]
LH 0.8 [1.5 to 9.3]
Total Testosterone 166 [241 to 1100]
and
FSH 4.9 [1.6 to 8]
LH 3.1 [1.5 to 9.3]
Total Testosterone 131 [241 to 1100]
If your testis did not work Primary your LH would have been at or over the top of the range.

People with a Pituitary Probelm need to have all the hormones that are controlled by the Pituitary. If even low normal one feels much better treating them. Things like Cortisol, Growth Hormone, Thyroid, DHEA, Testosterone and many more can be off.
Here is a FAQ's about Hypopituitary Problems have you had a head injury this can do this to your Pituitary.
http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/hypopituitary-faq/

I started doing shots every 3 days 2 yrs. ago when I read Dr. Shippen was doing this but subQ to keep his E2 down. My Dr. let me do this as long as I did my shots into my thigh he let me use a small 27g 1ml x 1/2" lg. needle so today I do 70 mgs every 3 days and 400 IU's of HCG the 2 days each in between my T shots. I take .5 mgs of Arimidex every 2 days to keep my E2 in check.

My Total T is at the top of the range and my free T is near the top my E2 is at 20 pg/ml and we treat not by labs but on how I feel. I am 63 and have Hypopituitary Problems just found out 2 yrs ago been on TRT for 23 yrs.

 

[user88777]

NO one really said, but did have MRI and no pituitary issues showed up...

 

[pmgamer18]

NO one really said, but did have MRI and no pituitary issues showed up...

Any bad head injurys in your life some times a bad injury does not show up until later in life. Bottom line is keep an eye on other hormones.

 

[user88777]

nope - nothing like that. IGF-1 was a little low initially but came right up when we added testosterone. Thyroid was borderline low as well.

 

[pmgamer18]

nope - nothing like that. IGF-1 was a little low initially but came right up when we added testosterone. Thyroid was borderline low as well.

After being on TRT for 23 yrs and never feeling a 100% when I read Dr. Johns TRT: A Recipe for Success I switched to shots and then added in HCG I was doing 150mgs of Depo T a week and started on 500 IU's of HCG 3 x's a week we tested in 6 weeks and my T levels doubled this is how I found out it was my Pituitary. Now looking back at all my labs there were screaming a pituitary problem everything was low normal. It's one thing for one or two things to be low normal but everything that has to do with the pituitary to be low normal not good.

Every winter I had Bronchitis and every thing that was going around I hated winter because I was sicker then a dog all winter long and this was going back some 20 yrs. Today I treat my Low Cortisol levels with Cortef 5 mgs 4 x's a day and my Thyroid with Armour. Now I don't get sick in the winter.

It's just something you may need to keep in the back of your mind.

 

[user88777]

how did you test your corisol levels? My doc ran several tests on serium AM fasting cortisol, always near the top of the range, so I never thought much of it.

 

[JanSz]

Hey guys. I wanted to start a new thread, post my complete history and get some feedback. Below are the results and ranges I have available for blood tests, my treatment progression from January through now, etc. JanSz, thanks so much for your feedback, I really appreciate it!

I am currently following JanSz suggested E3D protocol of 42mg Test, 250 IU HCG and 1/4 arimidex. I switched to this from my 100mg/week plus days 5 and 6 HCG 3 weeks ago - and at the same time added 1/2mg arimidex E3D and then switched to 1/4m armidex 1 week ago (morning wood went away)

When I added the armidex my issue with a bloated face went away rapidly, which I was happy with, and my sex drive increased.

JanSz, you mentioned in my other post based on SHBG levels I may be under dosing the testosterone - what do you think?

Pre-treatment (January 2007):

FSH 4.4 [1.6 to 8]
LH 0.8 [1.5 to 9.3]
Total Testosterone 166 [241 to 1100]
Testosterone Free 26 [34 to 194]
Testosterone BioAv. 57 [84 to 402]
Estrogens Total 159 [<130]
Estradiol 23 [13 to 54]

Pre-treatment, second set of tests by endo 2/5/2007:

FSH 4.9 [1.6 to 8]
LH 3.1 [1.5 to 9.3]
Total Testosterone 131 [241 to 1100]
Testosterone Free 34 [34 to 194]

2/21 on 5gm androgel daily:
Total Testosterone 597 [241 to 1100]

3/10/2007, still on 5gm androgel daily:

FSH <.7 [1.6 to 8]
Total Testosterone 291 [241 to 1100]
Testosterone Free 36.3 [34 to 194]

4/9/2007, still on 5gm androgel:

SHBG 47 [5 to 49]
Total Testosterone 553 [241 to 1100]
Testosterone Free 58 [34 to 194]
Testosterone BioAv. 129 [84 to 402]
Estradiol Ultrasen. 3 [< or + 29] – Don’t believe this number, neither did Dr. John

5/29/2007, now 100mg/week test-c injection

SHBG 43 [5 to 49]
Total Testosterone 1421 [241 to 1100]
Testosterone Free 191 [34 to 194]
Testosterone BioAv. 434 [84 to 402]
Estrogens Total 189 [<130]
Estradiol Ultrasen. 2 [< or + 29]
6/9/2007 on100mg/week test-c injection
Total Testosterone 1048 [241 to 1100]

No blood work since then...will be re-running complete labs plus Rhein labs once I'm stable on current regiment.

I still think that you are under-dosing on testosterone.
Look how I just approached and described mathematically my adjustmet, post #62
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-anti-aging/66268-jans-bloodtest-april13-3.html

I am suspicious of your BAT range, mine is (110-575)
possibly you can use that one, or adjust just based on FreeT
------------------
Doing the numbers for you (your choice to use it or not, I am not a doctor)
FreeT~300, =(191-46)/(300-46)=0.57 (dose is short 43%)
BAT~575 (top range), =(434-110)/(575-110)=0.7 (dose is short 30%)

You are short on both
The test represents your Depo-Tshots=42units at E3D schedule.
Your new dose should be around (edited 10/3/07 8:13PM)
=42/0.57=74units=148mg/week
=42/0.7=60units=120mg/week
remember, you have large SHBG, need a lots of T (by now confirmed by blood test results)
Do not even bother to look at TotalT range, only FreeT and BAT counts.
I suspect that the lattest TT=1048 is more representative of your current levels.------
There are other sides to your health, watch them.
For now I think lots of Estrogen tests (specially FreeE2).
Look/and use my list, blood test plus Estroessence ( I do prefer Genova over RheinLabs).

 

[user88777]

Not sure I follow the below. Let me clarify my dosage now - was on 100mg (.5ML) watson test-c per week, then switched to 0.215ml E3D 2 weeks ago.

Can you clarify your math/dosages below? thanks...

You are short on both
The test represents your Depo-Tshots=42units at E3D schedule.
Your new dose should be around
=42/0.43=98units=229mg/week
=42/0.5=84units=196mg/week
remember, you have large SHBG, need a lots of T (by now confirmed by blood test results)

 

[pmgamer18]

how did you test your corisol levels? My doc ran several tests on serium AM fasting cortisol, always near the top of the range, so I never thought much of it.

My first test was like this a am fasting test it was 12 Dr. told me it is good. I redid it in 6 weeks I do my TRT tests every 6 weeks and told them to test my cortisol again. This time it came back at 6 so I did this again in 6 weeks and it come back at 8. As I am reading on the net I find out labs lowered the range for morning labs and the best level for a morning test was 25 now labs range is 4 to 22 most Dr.'s will say your ok even at 4 because they are looking for Addisons. And don't believe in Adrenal Fatigue or Secondary Adrenal problems.

So I did a Saliva test one that checks 4 x's in a day my Test come back low accross the board and with this one has low DHEA.

Read this FAQ's it will give you all the info you need.
http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/adrenal-info/faq/

 

[user88777]

so do you think with my cortisol at top of range in the AM I probably don't have anything to worry about there?

I really want to get my test levels and E2 ironed out. JanSz is suggesting increasing from 100mg/week to about 143 mg/week - I think his initial math was wrong, I'm sure he will chime in. What do you think?

If I make that change, do you think I'll need more arimidex to go along with it?

I'm torn between making this change now - or waiting 3 more weeks and getting a read on all my levels based on what I have been doing for 2 weeks.

 

[pmgamer18]

Best to start low and work your way up you need your Total and Free T up into the upper 1/3 of your labs range then go by how you feel. Also keep your E2 down between 10 to 30 best at 20. So when you first start you dose by labs then when your high enough dose by how your feel. I and Jan feel better doing shots every 3 days you may do good at what your on. Do labs dose do more labs. It's not your going up on your dose and levels that make you feel bad it's when you go down.

so do you think with my cortisol at top of range in the AM I probably don't have anything to worry about there?

I really want to get my test levels and E2 ironed out. JanSz is suggesting increasing from 100mg/week to about 143 mg/week - I think his initial math was wrong, I'm sure he will chime in. What do you think?

If I make that change, do you think I'll need more arimidex to go along with it?

I'm torn between making this change now - or waiting 3 more weeks and getting a read on all my levels based on what I have been doing for 2 weeks.

 

[muslhead]

I mentioned this in another post but I want to bring it up again. Do those of you that use test injections rather than transD, do you ever feel bloated?
When I was using injections (I cant now because it causes me high HCT and RBC) I found to feel better (and keep the bloat down) I had to cut the weekly dose in half and increase the injection frequency by 2 (which is what you are saying).

Now that I am forced into transdermal application I still continue to be bloated. Doesnt anyone have this problem? If so, how did you solve it.

Sorry to thread hijack.

MH

 

[pmgamer18]

How long have you been on TRT it takes time to get leveled then you need to keep E2 Estradiol down when you do this the water your holding should go down. I am on a low dose water pill for this I am over weight and 63 I take the water pill every other day this helps me. But most men on TRT after a time and keeping E2 down this stops. Have you tried giving blood this helps with HCG and RBC.

I mentioned this in another post but I want to bring it up again. Do those of you that use test injections rather than transD, do you ever feel bloated?
When I was using injections (I cant now because it causes me high HCT and RBC) I found to feel better (and keep the bloat down) I had to cut the weekly dose in half and increase the injection frequency by 2 (which is what you are saying).

Now that I am forced into transdermal application I still continue to be bloated. Doesnt anyone have this problem? If so, how did you solve it.

Sorry to thread hijack.

MH

 

[muslhead]

Thanks for the reply PC
I have been on HRT for ~2 years but just recently changed to transdermal application (the last month).

I need to better monitor e2 and will do so.
I donate blood every 2 months.
What role does giving blood have on HCG?
MH

 

[JanSz]

Not sure I follow the below. Let me clarify my dosage now - was on 100mg (.5ML) watson test-c per week, then switched to 0.215ml E3D 2 weeks ago.

Can you clarify your math/dosages below? thanks...

You are short on both
The test represents your Depo-Tshots=42units at E3D schedule.
Your new dose should be around
=42/0.43=98units=229mg/week
=42/0.5=84units=196mg/week
remember, you have large SHBG, need a lots of T (by now confirmed by blood test results)

I edited the numbers in original post, I originally used wrong number in denominator.

Your lattest TT=1048 more as I would expect from your smal T dose.
You will have to about double your T dose, this is how I feel.
Work on reducing your SHBG. When you succesful, your demand for T will be less.
One of the ways to reduce SHBG is to keep E2 on high side of the range. I would rather test for FreeE2 and attempt to keep it at the high end of the range.

After you establish new routine, hold on to it for at least 6 weeks and then do blood draw. Test on the day of the shot, time of the shot, before shot. You have just changed from 1/week to E3D schedule, but you did not changed average weekly dose. If you make another correction, as discussed here, start counting yout time for blood test from date when you have made actual change. It would be even better to wait 2-3 months.

When testing ask for (completely as written)

60 Estradiol, Free, LC/MS/MS (36169X)
63 Estrogens, Fractionated, LC/MS/MS (36742X)
67 Estrogen, Total, Serum (439X)
68 Testosterone, Free, Bio/Total (LC/MS/MS)
74 Dihydrotestosterone, Free, Serum (36168X)
======================================================================
Something is fishy with your blood test.
On the same 100mg/week you are testing once in 1400's
and second time in 1000's

Any ideas what may be the reason for that?

You are not stabilized
Testicles in process of shutting down
else

 

[rightship3]

so do you think with my cortisol at top of range in the AM I probably don't have anything to worry about there?

I really want to get my test levels and E2 ironed out. JanSz is suggesting increasing from 100mg/week to about 143 mg/week - I think his initial math was wrong, I'm sure he will chime in. What do you think?

If I make that change, do you think I'll need more arimidex to go along with it?

I'm torn between making this change now - or waiting 3 more weeks and getting a read on all my levels based on what I have been doing for 2 weeks.

I've been reading about elevated AM cortisol also and stumbled into this.

"The general effect of excess cortisol is usually stimulatory and catabolic; a deficiency of cortisol usually results in a slowing of physiology. If morning cortisol is elevated, it could indicate an infection in the body, nocturnal hypoglycemia and/or increased risk for a cardiovascular event. It also means that pregnenolone is being diverted to cortisol production, perhaps at the expense of producing male hormones. If morning cortisol is low, it is evidence of chronic stress and potential depletion of all steroidal hormones, including male sex hormones."

http://www.biodia.com/test237.html

 

[user88777]

thanks for the feedback, I appreciate it. Not sure why the TT came back so high that one time - call it test error, who knows.

I think I will give the higher dose a try, starting tomorrow, hopefully I'll notice a differnece.

Do you think I should increase the arimidex from 1/4 to 1/4mg E3D at the same time and then see what happens to "morning wood"?

 

[JanSz]

thanks for the feedback, I appreciate it. Not sure why the TT came back so high that one time - call it test error, who knows.

I think I will give the higher dose a try, starting tomorrow, hopefully I'll notice a differnece.

Do you think I should increase the arimidex from 1/4 to 1/4mg E3D at the same time and then see what happens to "morning wood"?

You are posting:

4/9/2007, still on 5gm androgel:
Estradiol Ultrasen. 3 [< or + 29] – Don’t believe this number, neither did Dr. John

5/29/2007, now 100mg/week test-c injection
Estrogens Total 189 [<130]
Estradiol Ultrasen. 2 [< or + 29]

6/9/2007 on100mg/week test-c injection
Total Testosterone 1048 [241 to 1100]
--------------------------------------------

Twice in the row your ultrasensitive E2 is non-existing

you are still insisting to use Arimidex 1/4mg/week and even contemplating increase to 1/4mg/E3D

My answer (I am not a doctor and sometimes proud of it):
drop Arimidex
recheck your supplements to see if any of them are killing your E2
-------------------
I doubt that your 1/4 pills are really of that size, I was newer able to cut evenly those little pills.
I use LiquiDex
=========================================

About you TT results.

keep in mind my post #40
and supporting study that I list there.
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-anti-aging/66268-jans-bloodtest-april13-2.html

With blocked testis, on average, 100mg/week testosterone
results in TT~776 (Variation= ±75)
I am assuming that body weight could also be added for correction,
if my 160# body get TT~776 somebody who is 250# should get smaller TT from that 100mg.
But really, at that point we are in need of good blood testing to get actual individual results.
------
Men with good testis will have TT~700-1000
Men with high SHBG have no chance (without T supplementation) to get desired FreeT (and BAT)
Getting SHBG down is not easy, getting script for Depo-T is not easy either (with some doctors).
---------
High TT increases E2, at the moment you need to increase your E2

Think of checking all estrogens (all about 20 (twenty) of them)
----------------------
With your SHBG=47
you need weekly dose 200mg
but use E3D schedule (and HCG=500iu on day of the T shot)
hold for 3 months maybe four to really stabilize, retest.
Do not forget DHEA, pregnenolone, progesterone, prolactin.

 

[JanSz]

Hello all. I'm due for blood work next week - but in my quest to get E2 in check I added armidex several weeks ago - to combat what was really bad bloating from test+HCG. I started at 1/4mg e3d and then ramped to 1/2mg e3d starting 1 week ago. Here is what I have observed:

-Bloating (moon face) dramatically reduced. My wife says I look like a different person than a week ago. It got so bad I didn't want to leave the house.

-General well being- feel much better, full of energy compared to last few weeks

-Afternoon temps - up over 98 deg for first time, currnetly on 4.5gr armour and before adding arimidex I was barely over 97 in the afternoon.

Looking forward to having my blood and rhein labs urine tests done next week to see where I am.

Currently following e3d protocol of 1/2mg armidex, 42mg test-c, 250iu HCG.

Glad that you feel better.
Hope you do well on tests.
Post them on this thread when you get results.

 

[user88777]

I finally have updated blood work from Quest.

Have been following E3D schedule for 5 weeks of:
42mg Testosterone Cypionate IM
250IU HCG subj
1/2mg adex

Results:

SHBG 48 [5 to 49]
Total Testosterone 1059 [250 to 1100]
Testosterone Free 121.4 [46 to 224]
Testosterone BioAv. 239 [110 to 575]
Estrogens Total 96[<130]
Estradiol 25 [13 to 54]
Ferritin 189 [20 to 345]
T-4 Free 1.3 [0.80 to 1.8]
T-3 Free 217 [230 to 420]

I was also taking 4.5grains armour, but stopped right after this test - I never noticed a difference and my labs haven't budged a bit from where they were on no armour. I'm going to test adrenals but want to focus at the moment on the test/adex above.

So it looks like i need to increase my test dosage based on high SHBG and lowish free and bioavailable T, not sure how much, and if I do that probably need to keep an eye on E2. Thoughts?

thanks for the feedback guys!

 

[JanSz]

I finally have updated blood work from Quest.

Have been following E3D schedule for 5 weeks of:
42mg Testosterone Cypionate IM
250IU HCG subj
1/2mg adex

Results:

SHBG 48 [5 to 49]
Total Testosterone 1059 [250 to 1100]
Testosterone Free 121.4 [46 to 224]
Testosterone BioAv. 239 [110 to 575]
Estrogens Total 96[<130]
Estradiol 25 [13 to 54]
Ferritin 189 [20 to 345]
T-4 Free 1.3 [0.80 to 1.8]
T-3 Free 217 [230 to 420]

I was also taking 4.5grains armour, but stopped right after this test - I never noticed a difference and my labs haven't budged a bit from where they were on no armour. I'm going to test adrenals but want to focus at the moment on the test/adex above.

So it looks like i need to increase my test dosage based on high SHBG and lowish free and bioavailable T, not sure how much, and if I do that probably need to keep an eye on E2. Thoughts?

thanks for the feedback guys!

42*7/3=98mg/week
table on post #40 indicate that you should use 210mg/week testosterone, do it at E3D schedule
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-anti-aging/66268-jans-bloodtest-april13-2.html

clarify schedule for hcg and Adex, take Adex with testosterone.

Hard to say how your E2 will react, get Liquidex ready so you are able to make small adjustments when required.
Ferritin LE’s Optimal Range: 50–150 ng/mL
Do also Hematocrit
I am puzzled with you Armour/FreeT3
just go back on Armour and do decent test next time

Next time ask for these tests (and many more):

Ferritin
C-reactive protein CRP
Fibrinogen
Hematocrit
Hemoglobin A1C
Homocysteine, cardio
Lipoprotein (A) Lp(A)
T3, Free
T4, Free
Aldosterone
DHEA sulfate
Prolactin
Progesterone, LC/MS/MS
Pregnenolone
Estradiol, Free, LC/MS/MS (36169X)
Estrogens, Fractionated, LC/MS/MS (36742X)
Estrogen, Total, Serum (439X)
Testosterone, Free, Bio/Total (LC/MS/MS)
Dihydrotestosterone, Free, Serum (36168X)

================================
SHBG 48

I am in the process of doing a lots of testing at Genova Diagnostics.

I believe in this, otherwise I would not do it.
Either watch me and my progress or for starters consider their ONE test.

 

[user88777]

thanks - i was thinking I needed a bit more.

I take the 1/2mg adex and 250hcg E3D with the testosterone.

I was thinking of trying smaller dose of HCG in days between T shots.

Will adjust adex accordinly and test again in a few weeks.

What will doubling my T dose do to my total T measurement? I don't want my doctor to freak out.

 

[JanSz]

thanks - i was thinking I needed a bit more.

I take the 1/2mg adex and 250hcg E3D with the testosterone.

I was thinking of trying smaller dose of HCG in days between T shots.

Will adjust adex accordinly and test again in a few weeks.

What will doubling my T dose do to my total T measurement? I don't want my doctor to freak out.

Possibly my post #62 relieves some of your anxiety of T dose.
Depending on your relationship with your doctor you may want to explain your way to him or not.
Bottom line you want his scripts for test keep coming.

See my E2 test, it is also from Quest, but it gives more info.
You may want to do only that test as soon as you do not feel right about your E2. Ask doc for extra script for E2 just in case.

Estradiol, Free, LC/MS/MS (36169X)

But do not change Liquidex dose without testing, otherwise you will be lost (like you are now with Armour).
====================================
You may want change to:

HCG 250iu on both days between T shots.
=====================================

 

[wondering]

double your T dose? You're already at top of range. T is not your problem.

thanks - i was thinking I needed a bit more.

I take the 1/2mg adex and 250hcg E3D with the testosterone.

I was thinking of trying smaller dose of HCG in days between T shots.

Will adjust adex accordinly and test again in a few weeks.

What will doubling my T dose do to my total T measurement? I don't want my doctor to freak out.

 

[JanSz]

double your T dose? You're already at top of range. T is not your problem.

Why do not you rather look at his FreeT, it is low.

ok, ok, pumping more T is a kind of shortcut, his high SHBG signifies some other existing problems.

But he will newer go for extensive testing to figure out why.
Possibly eve then he will not be able to do much to lower SHBG.

So what do you do???

Get more T so FreeT is where you want it to be.

There is also good chance that high TT will put down pressure on SHBG.

 

[user88777]

Guys - I have been thinking about this, and given that I feel pretty good on the current protocol I don't see doubling my T dose right away as a great idea. Maybe a little more would be good, but not doubling, at least not yet.

I definitely don't want to gain any muscle mass/weight, so jumping from 100mg/week to 200 would probably be a bad idea.

I can certainly do lots more testing, but I'm in the process of switching doctors, so that will be on hold 8 weeks or so.

What I may try is the nettle root extract, it's dirt cheap and easy to see if it brings my SHBG (48) down. That number has been absolutely stable all year, before and during TRT - never changed. If nettles help my next test will show it.

Should have rhein results today or tomorrow and will post.

 

[user88777]

Just got my Rhein resutls in - pretty interesting. I have posted both complete blood and urine 24 hr results from same day on this post, hope they can be read. Would LOVE some feedback.

I have done rhein 2x before. Comments: my metabolites have always been high, and my testosterone has always shown low. This is the first time I've done aldosterone or thyroid in the urine test.

Curious about E2 urine vs blood, cortisol level being so high, anything else that looks unusual.

thanks guys!

 

[JanSz]

Guys - I have been thinking about this, and given that I feel pretty good on the current protocol I don't see doubling my T dose right away as a great idea. Maybe a little more would be good, but not doubling, at least not yet.

I definitely don't want to gain any muscle mass/weight, so jumping from 100mg/week to 200 would probably be a bad idea.

I can certainly do lots more testing, but I'm in the process of switching doctors, so that will be on hold 8 weeks or so.

What I may try is the nettle root extract, it's dirt cheap and easy to see if it brings my SHBG (48) down. That number has been absolutely stable all year, before and during TRT - never changed. If nettles help my next test will show it.

Should have rhein results today or tomorrow and will post.

Do not forget about your non-existing FreeT3 in blood and too high FreeT3 in urine.

Had you done urine test in Genova Diagnostics you would have got Genova's suggestions on how to rectify your problem. You clearing out in urine too much of just about everything that they measure.
Hopefully HAN will chime in with his opinion.

 

[user88777]

Yes, but above range in urine! Weird...

 

[JanSz]

Yes, but above range in urine! Weird...

I guess that mean that not enough is left in blood to do the job.

 

[hardasnails1973]

Yes, but above range in urine! Weird...

you ever been checked for CAH ?
your problem for some reason it is not binding to the cell receptors.

Next step
RBC fatty acid metabolism - genova.

how much fish oil you taking a day
and what is your normal diet like?
How much sun light you getting as well?
Do you take any caffine or stimulents during the day time?

Your driving e2 into the ground may be cauing excessive stress to your adrenals or yopu have a bad hidden infection ..END OF STORY !!

 

[user88777]

Next step
RBC fatty acid metabolism - genova.

OK

how much fish oil you taking a day

None - just eat fish regularly - 5 to 6 times/week

and what is your normal diet like?

fresh fruit, veggies, beef, fish, chicken, low sodium, little grains/sugars. nuts, coconut, hemp oils.

How much sun light you getting as well?

Lots - exercise outside regularly, out in sun quite a bit. Tested Vit. D levels while back, mid-high normal

Do you take any caffeine or stimulants during the day time?

One big cup coffee early am, no other stims throughout day, no diet soda, etc. 4 to 6 liters of water/day.

Your driving e2 into the ground may be cauing excessive stress to your adrenals or yopu have a bad hidden infection ..END OF STORY !!

E2 (serium) of 25 is into the ground? How do you figure?

 

[user88777]

I do feel that I should add that I feel pretty good, no major complaints. Sure, i get tired during the day, usually due to the hard training I do in the morning.

I don't have any sexual issues, have morning wood so E2 is probably good where it's at.

Very low body fat (4% or even less), strong, great day to day recovery.

It's possible the high cortisol results were purely from stress (work, whatever) because my other rhein results had 1. normal cortisol all around 2. slightly elevated. Blood serium cortisol has always been normal.

 

[hardasnails1973]

Next step
RBC fatty acid metabolism - genova.

OK

how much fish oil you taking a day

None - just eat fish regularly - 5 to 6 times/week

and what is your normal diet like?

fresh fruit, veggies, beef, fish, chicken, low sodium, little grains/sugars. nuts, coconut, hemp oils.

How much sun light you getting as well?

Lots - exercise outside regularly, out in sun quite a bit. Tested Vit. D levels while back, mid-high normal

Do you take any caffeine or stimulants during the day time?

One big cup coffee early am, no other stims throughout day, no diet soda, etc. 4 to 6 liters of water/day.

Your driving e2 into the ground may be cauing excessive stress to your adrenals or yopu have a bad hidden infection ..END OF STORY !!

E2 (serium) of 25 is into the ground? How do you figure?

Look at your urine test..That is low e2 over 24 hour peroid,

On thing I can see is add 1/2 tsp of sea salt early in the morning and check iodine levels due to low salt diet.
Other wise I see NOTHING wrong. Have you had an infection of any sort or been through a tramatic peroids of stress in past 6 months ?

 

[hardasnails1973]

Next step
RBC fatty acid metabolism - genova.

OK

how much fish oil you taking a day

None - just eat fish regularly - 5 to 6 times/week

and what is your normal diet like?

fresh fruit, veggies, beef, fish, chicken, low sodium, little grains/sugars. nuts, coconut, hemp oils.

How much sun light you getting as well?

Lots - exercise outside regularly, out in sun quite a bit. Tested Vit. D levels while back, mid-high normal

Do you take any caffeine or stimulants during the day time?

One big cup coffee early am, no other stims throughout day, no diet soda, etc. 4 to 6 liters of water/day.

Your driving e2 into the ground may be cauing excessive stress to your adrenals or yopu have a bad hidden infection ..END OF STORY !!

E2 (serium) of 25 is into the ground? How do you figure?

Look at your urine test..That is low e2 over 24 hour peroid,
your metabolising estrogen very quickly for some reason. Keeping bf at 4% is insane and over time you can cause internal damage as well as permeant thyroid problems.
On thing I can see is add 1/2 tsp of sea salt early in the morning and check iodine levels due to low salt diet.
Other wise I see NOTHING wrong. Have you had an infection of any sort or been through a tramatic peroids of stress in past 6 months ? YOur diet is PAR ON EXCELLENT
What is your current caloires at? because a low carb diet can really increae shbg as well as high fiber. Why they tell women with PCOS to eat more fiber to make estrogen more available to the body due to lowering higher free testosterone. examine p/c/f ratio may be reason why or possible low gh out put. How are you metabolizing the estrogens good vs bad? Sometihng is kicking your homrones out of balaance at cellular level ..OK What type of fish do you eat? too much fish can have heavy metals contents

 

[user88777]

I noticed even before adex my estrogens were pretty low in the rhein tests, even with much higher total estrogens and E2 in serum. I'm sticking to 1/2 Adex E3D for now and will see how I feel and retest again 6 weeks. Seems to be in range now.

I think part of our issue with urine tests is we really haven't seen that many results - while serium blood tests are so comment, we can easily compare and make determinations. It's another datapoint, but even very experienced doctors don't always konw what ot make of the restults, metabolites, what it all means, etc.

I was glad to see no issue with aldosterone or low cortisol - glad I don't have to mess with adrenal insufficiency or worry much about thyroid for now (stopped all armour 10/24 - temps still same or even higher!)

No traumatic events or similar.

As for diet, I have really been focused on it lately and it really is the #1 thing affecting how I feel and recover day to day. I have read other guys saying this too, but I never beleived it quite frankly, always looking for a supplement or drug to help. Diet makes ALL THE DIFFERENCE!

What I have done is essentially follow the paleo diet for athletes 100%. I eat no refined carbs, grains, rice, pasta AT ALL. It's easier for me never to touch it than have a little. No cereals, dairy, sugars, nothing. Instead I eat sweet potatoes, asparagus, avocados, some broccoli, salalds, carrots, beats, tons of bananas, apples and then lots of fish, beef, chicken. crab. shrimp, eggs, and a good bit of oils. I just started with the hemp oil and I love my coconut oil. I probably get 500+ calories/day from these oils, if not more.

Favorite breakfast: egglands best eggs (whole), cooked in coconut oil, some salmon or crab meat thrown in, smothered in mango peach salsa. Killer.

Again, my focus is feeling good, recovery from very intense (endurance athlete) workouts, keeping weight in target range. I can naturally stay at 4% fine - it's when I try to get to 3 to 3.5% that things get dicey.

I will say the first few days, maybe 3 to 5 were really hard, craving carbs all day, wishing I could have a bagel, etc. You will make it through, now I crave asparagus, tomatoes, etc.

also, I just got some test enanthate yesterday and am going to switch to that from cypionate to see if it bloats me less - still have a little facial bloating, but alot less with the super clean diet, adex and a claritin/day. Might have a little season allergy going on.

 

[user88777]

Just saw the rest of your post - calories - 2500 to 5000/day depending on workout.

I do eat tons of salmon - probably a serving every day, some farm raised, some fresh, just depends. I love it.

Iodine loading test on order...

I also stopped all supplements 2 weeks ago to take a break, can't tell a difference, but want to add in the following:

AM:
multi
iodoral (if I need it)
vit d
glucosamine
vit c

PM:
vit c
calcium/mag/zinc combo

 

[JanSz]

I noticed even before adex my estrogens were pretty low in the rhein tests, even with much higher total estrogens and E2 in serum. I'm sticking to 1/2 Adex E3D for now and will see how I feel and retest again 6 weeks. Seems to be in range now.

I think part of our issue with urine tests is we really haven't seen that many results - while serium blood tests are so comment, we can easily compare and make determinations. It's another datapoint, but even very experienced doctors don't always konw what ot make of the restults, metabolites, what it all means, etc.
I was glad to see no issue with aldosterone or low cortisol - glad I don't have to mess with adrenal insufficiency or worry much about thyroid for now (stopped all armour 10/24 - temps still same or even higher!)

No traumatic events or similar.

As for diet, I have really been focused on it lately and it really is the #1 thing affecting how I feel and recover day to day. I have read other guys saying this too, but I never beleived it quite frankly, always looking for a supplement or drug to help. Diet makes ALL THE DIFFERENCE!

What I have done is essentially follow the paleo diet for athletes 100%. I eat no refined carbs, grains, rice, pasta AT ALL. It's easier for me never to touch it than have a little. No cereals, dairy, sugars, nothing. Instead I eat sweet potatoes, asparagus, avocados, some broccoli, salalds, carrots, beats, tons of bananas, apples and then lots of fish, beef, chicken. crab. shrimp, eggs, and a good bit of oils. I just started with the hemp oil and I love my coconut oil. I probably get 500+ calories/day from these oils, if not more.

Favorite breakfast: egglands best eggs (whole), cooked in coconut oil, some salmon or crab meat thrown in, smothered in mango peach salsa. Killer.

Again, my focus is feeling good, recovery from very intense (endurance athlete) workouts, keeping weight in target range. I can naturally stay at 4% fine - it's when I try to get to 3 to 3.5% that things get dicey.

I will say the first few days, maybe 3 to 5 were really hard, craving carbs all day, wishing I could have a bagel, etc. You will make it through, now I crave asparagus, tomatoes, etc.

also, I just got some test enanthate yesterday and am going to switch to that from cypionate to see if it bloats me less - still have a little facial bloating, but alot less with the super clean diet, adex and a claritin/day. Might have a little season allergy going on.

Tests from Genova come with interpretation.
That interpretation and suggestions for corrective action may help less experienced doctors, and definitely is helpfull to me as a patient.

============================================
You posted this on post #21 on this thread:
T-4 Free 1.3 [0.80 to 1.8]
T-3 Free 217 [230 to 420]

I was also taking 4.5grains armour, but stopped right after this test
============================================

You should figure out where you stand with thyroid.
To have FreeT3 below lower range while on 4.5grains of Armour is strange.
Hopefully it is bad test, but if not, this may get interesting.

 

[user88777]

I agree the Genova tests would be great, will seek to run those in the future.

As for thyroid, my thoughts are, get off armour for a good while, restest natural levels while being on stable Test/E2 protocol. Also test iodone loading same time - then see where I am naturally. If ok, then no more drugs are needed. Otherwise I can slowly ramp the armour back up. make sense?

I'd prefer not to mess with armour if I don't really need it.

 

[hardasnails1973]

I agree the Genova tests would be great, will seek to run those in the future.

As for thyroid, my thoughts are, get off armour for a good while, restest natural levels while being on stable Test/E2 protocol. Also test iodone loading same time - then see where I am naturally. If ok, then no more drugs are needed. Otherwise I can slowly ramp the armour back up. make sense?

I'd prefer not to mess with armour if I don't really need it.

Where is your cholesterol in all of this mess?
Following a paleolithic diet i think SHBG would be increased due to lack of insulin, higher fiber intake, and lignands and gh out put should be high. I would serious look into mercury toxicity as a possibility due to all the salmon you eat which is not wild but game rasied and how long have you been eating it is the queston years? and i would looked into activate from DS supplements to help bring down shbg. I think the diet you are on is making you incedible insulin sensitive which is really cranking up your shbg as it probably is mine as well.

 

[user88777]

Thanks guys, I really appreciate the feedback, time and effort the good folks here put in. Wonderful place to gain experience and learn from others.

I agree thyroid/cortisol is place to look next, exactly why I stopped armour and will retest in a few weeks. First, 4 point saliva to rule out adrenals - then thyroid tests.

My SHBG has always been mid-high 40s, even before TRT - could be normal for me. I do know that I feel a ton better with T of 1000 than I did at 110 back in january! That sucked, plus I couldn't keep muscle mass on or recover, looked, felt like crap and workout quality was in the toilet.

Upcoming changes - switching to enanthate tomorrow, staying at 42mg E3D plus 1/2 mg adex. can't decide if I stick to E3D adex or EOD. Will probably stay at e3d and retest in 6 weeks.

I will reintroduce HCG next week, thinking 125 or 100IU in the 2 days between shots and see how I react.

Will keep you folks posted. Here is to feeling well!

 

[hardasnails1973]

Thanks guys, I really appreciate the feedback, time and effort the good folks here put in. Wonderful place to gain experience and learn from others.

I agree thyroid/cortisol is place to look next, exactly why I stopped armour and will retest in a few weeks. First, 4 point saliva to rule out adrenals - then thyroid tests.

My SHBG has always been mid-high 40s, even before TRT - could be normal for me. I do know that I feel a ton better with T of 1000 than I did at 110 back in january! That sucked, plus I couldn't keep muscle mass on or recover, looked, felt like crap and workout quality was in the toilet.

Upcoming changes - switching to enanthate tomorrow, staying at 42mg E3D plus 1/2 mg adex. can't decide if I stick to E3D adex or EOD. Will probably stay at e3d and retest in 6 weeks.

I will reintroduce HCG next week, thinking 125 or 100IU in the 2 days between shots and see how I react.

Will keep you folks posted. Here is to feeling well!

go 125 ius between since its normally 250 ius every 3 day.
Some people on armour r thyroid medicine increase as ft3 goes up. How much fiber you taking in? cut fiber to 20 grams a day and see if that changes your shbg

 

[user88777]

thanks - not sure on fiber, but I eat a damn lot of fruit and veggis - so probably alot. I don't do any fiber supplements or grains. I'll have to add it up.

Might be good to cut back a little on the fish, substitute more crab/shrimp. Love me some avocados!

 

[hardasnails1973]

thanks - not sure on fiber, but I eat a damn lot of fruit and veggis - so probably alot. I don't do any fiber supplements or grains. I'll have to add it up.

Might be good to cut back a little on the fish, substitute more crab/shrimp. Love me some avocados!

Yes add some some whole organic eggs in there. Your DHA and EPA are probably flooded in your cell membrane casuing increase insulin sensitivity which could be bumping up your shbg.

www.fitday.com to add up your fiber intake