HPTA restoration: Does it ever actually happen?
- 09-07-2007, 12:10 PM
HPTA restoration: Does it ever actually happen?
So, I've been just simply trying to find some anecdotal evidence, somewhere, of a successful HPTA restoration.
From what I can tell, just browsing the internet, it isn't all that common.
Has anybody either had success themselves or even heard of someone else being successful in restoring their HPTA?
Could someone knowledgeable here, perhaps even provide a best guess at what the rate of success might in reality be?
Are there any factors that increase one's probability of success (e.g. youth, interval after shutdown, etc)?
When restoration does occur, how often does it tend to be partial (e.g. a recent posting on this site showed one man's T increase on Nolva from less than 100 to around 300, but stopped there), and how often does somebody achieve "full-blown" restoration (e.g. from lower-range all the way to upper range)? Are there any variables that might distinguish these (e.g. youth, interval after shutdown, etc).
- 09-07-2007, 12:48 PM
- 6'1" 230 lbs.
- Join Date
- Oct 2006
- Rep Power
- Lv. Percent
your body has a natural hpta level based on genetics so comparing one persons #'s to another's will not give you a difinitive answer on whether or not you have restored function... plus hpta function decreases with age as well so there are many factors to consider when discussing "full restoration"
- 09-07-2007, 03:10 PM
You're probably referring to me.
I do consider that my HPTA has recovered despite the fact that my TT is still in the 300'ds... My DHEA is pretty low and that's another issue that I'm having to deal with. I am hoping that by fixing my DHEA that will drive my TT to more acceptable levels.
09-08-2007, 11:36 PM
So are there no other stories out there of a truly effective HPTA restoration?
09-09-2007, 12:17 AM
Success is a relative term......just because full restoration is not attained it does not mean one has not made progress.
It took most of us decades to develop these issues....to resolve them in a year or two is not a reasonable expectation.
09-09-2007, 01:33 AM
does physiological TRT disrupt this axis severely?
Would it make sense to try to restart one's own system before turning to exogenous testosterone (assuming one is low T but has never done any HRT)?
What are the variables that might change the calculus?
My labs seem to indicate primary hypogonadism, but I have heard that Leydig Cells can sometimes be regenerated with hCG.
09-09-2007, 05:01 AM
I'm just interested in hearing at least one story of someone actually "appearing" to have achieved full restoration...Has anyone ever run, say, Nolva treatment, and gone from undisputedly hypo levels (less than 300) to undisputedly "normal" levels (say, 500 or above), and then stabilized there? Has anyone really heard of this happening?
Additionally, what, would you speculate, are the key variables?
09-09-2007, 08:40 AM
I have been trying to get mine restarted with Clomid and HCG for the past 4 months. I have never achived a TT of over 400.
IMO, the guys who can get it into the 500-900 range are guys who either add some form of synthetic testosterone to their treatment, or had naturally high test levels before being shut down..
I have a naturally low test levels, so I don't expect it to get in the 500 or higher range with my current protocol.
09-09-2007, 09:09 AM
09-09-2007, 10:59 AM
I had a thread similar to this , anyway hpta--the way I understand it --the brain ,pituitary,and your balls are all conected,so one cant be restored without the other,so the question I had was--I was on a 5wk Tbol cycle 30mg/pd,at the end I had some ball shrinkage-I did pct with cissus,and within a week I was back to full size[plus] and have stayed that way--so does this mean Im restored--or do you go by a blood test for T only?
09-09-2007, 11:36 AM
i went from about 220 to 600 with hcg at 250iu's a day. That was after trying androgel first, then androgel plus hcg. But even at 600 I still feel like garbage, and have adrenal and thyroid issues as well.
So back to t-gel and hcg.
09-09-2007, 11:41 AM
Yes, ball size is one way to tell. But, size goes by what the levels of LH and FSH are.
When I was on Clomid, I regained all my size back. But I had a total test of 220.
the only way to tell is you are fully recovered is by a blood test..
09-09-2007, 11:46 AM
09-09-2007, 12:07 PM
There is lots of people who have absorption problem.
Use Depo-t subq shots.
I will also suggest that aging is going to include a decline of hormones,
within genetic differences, expect to augment back Testosterone,
I keep mime and my clients under doctors monitoring,
around 1000 to 1,200 ng/ml Total T,
and Free T at upper range of 200 to 300 (or 20 to 40 pg/mldepending on the nomenclature)
Aldosterone is best at 10 to 40 ug/24 hr,
IGF-1 around 250 to 400 ng/ml.
DHT 60 to 70 ng/dl,
DHEA 300 ug/dl,
insulin under 5,
SHBG 10 to 30 nmol/l,
Estradiol 35 pg/ml,
with about 20 (2OHE) to 1 -16aOHE.
09-09-2007, 01:26 PM
If one was to observ me in the gym or look at my physique, they would not believe that I'm operating on levels in the 300rds. I go through days when I feel like a million bucks not knowing what my TT is. I truly feel like **** whenever I get my blood work results on paper. That said; it's quite apparent that I need to bump up my levels, and that's what I'm working on. I've only been at it a year. It would be unrealistic to expect speedy results after years of suppression.
09-09-2007, 02:31 PM
i was on JUST HCG 250iu's ED and got my numbers to 599, but I am only 24, so im fairly young. i also think mine are inherently tied in with my low cortisol, low aldosterone, low thyroid etc.
when I was on hcg100iue ED and 5grams androgel, I got up to maybe 650 or so. Now im on 5grams t-gel and 250iu's HCG and hope to get to 1000 or so. If not, maybe switch to injects.
09-09-2007, 03:29 PM
I think it can and does happen when low T is caused by another problem like low thyroid and/or low adrenal function.
Also, you guys can't get totally wrapped up in only "Total T". It does not tell the whole story. Free T is the player of interest and it must be calculated by using Total T and SHBG.
Who do you think has more T working for them?
1. Person A with Total T = 700ng/dl and SHBG of 48
2. Person B with Total T = 400ng/dl and SHBG of 12
If you guessed Person A, you would be wrong.
People with low Total T generally also have low SHBG to "compensate".
09-09-2007, 03:44 PM
09-09-2007, 04:18 PM
It depends on the individual's specific requirements to FreeT. Everyone is different in their makeup, genetics, and "receptor sensitivity." One person with high receptor sensitivity may require far less testosterone than one with dull receptors or higher needs for testosterone. Therefore, the body is equipped with a mechanism (SHBG) to allow more free T to flow or restrict it.
So the answer to the above is; if that person's true requirement for Free T is let's say at 15 (8-21) yeilding from total 342 lets say, and he goes supplementing extra T to bump his total up to 800, his shbg will eventually go up in order to keep him closer to what his homeostasis is... or the extra T will convert to E and then will send bad signals to make the person feel bad. Then the doctor will add Arimidex... etc.. or cut down on your T intake..
09-11-2007, 10:52 AM
09-11-2007, 11:16 AM
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