persistent side effect of finasterid extreme low libido

[GenesisSVK]

Hi. I'm 28 years old and I'm from Slovakia (It is in Europe). I'm sorry my English is not good but I'll try. I'm off finasterid for 6 years and I still have side effects. I used it oraly. When I stopped oral administration (1mg/day during one year) because of side effect (depression) I started with homemade alcoholic solution of finasterid and dutasterid. Daily topical dose contained 100mcg of finasterid and 30 mcg dutasterid (for hair this was more effective than oral administration of finasterid) but here occured my problem. Depression went away but my sexual life too. I was taking topical solution for 3 months and in this time my libido died totaly. Now I take nothing for 6 years. During 6 years no improve in my libido (I'm nearly asexual). I tried everything (Testosteron replacement, ginseng, siberian ginseng, rhodiola, leuzea, tribulus, multivitamins, mesterolon as a DHT replacement, piracetam for nerves regeneration, sport, walking) but no improve. I have extreme low libido, my erection is weak, I suffer premature ejaculation. I lost all my girlfriends and now I'm totally alone for 6 years. My hormonal profile (testosterone, prolactin, LH, FSH, thyroid hormone) is ok thus all sexologist said that I'm Ok but I'm not. I need girlfriend for my emotional life but Girls dont want me because of I hate sex. I wish to have family but I can't reach this . PLS Can somebody help me?

 

[JanSz]

Hi. I'm 28 years old and I'm from Slovakia (It is in Europe). I'm sorry my English is not good but I'll try. I'm off finasterid for 6 years and I still have side effects. I used it oraly. When I stopped oral administration (1mg/day during one year) because of side effect (depression) I started with homemade alcoholic solution of finasterid and dutasterid. Daily topical dose contained 100mcg of finasterid and 30 mcg dutasterid (for hair this was more effective than oral administration of finasterid) but here occured my problem. Depression went away but my sexual life too. I was taking topical solution for 3 months and in this time my libido died totaly. Now I take nothing for 6 years. During 6 years no improve in my libido (I'm nearly asexual). I tried everything (Testosteron replacement, ginseng, siberian ginseng, rhodiola, leuzea, tribulus, multivitamins, mesterolon as a DHT replacement, piracetam for nerves regeneration, sport, walking) but no improve. I have extreme low libido, my erection is weak, I suffer premature ejaculation. I lost all my girlfriends and now I'm totally alone for 6 years. My hormonal profile (testosterone, prolactin, LH, FSH, thyroid hormone) is ok thus all sexologist said that I'm Ok but I'm not. I need girlfriend for my emotional life but Girls dont want me because of I hate sex. I wish to have family but I can't reach this . PLS Can somebody help me?

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-anti-aging/66268-jans-bloodtest-april13-2.html


do blood test per post #44.

Post results here, item, number, units, range

 

[MarkLA]

You might also try looking here: http://finasteride.jconserv.net/

Good luck!
Mark

 

[GenesisSVK]

What tests I need??? I was tested for testosteron, tyroxin, prolactin, FSH, LH all were in normal range. Did you mean a complete blood test???

 

[engival]

in the mean time post everything you have on record, as jan said units, ranges, etc

 

[JanSz]

What tests I need??? I was tested for testosteron, tyroxin, prolactin, FSH, LH all were in normal range.
Did you mean a complete blood test???YES

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

[GenesisSVK]

Doctors have all my test results I have no one at home. Only one result I have home is (TST 18.3, PRL 5.9 FSH 2.8 LH 4.87) but there are no units ;( . I need to be tested again (full blood test and hormonal test). And I thank that you try to help me. And sorry for my bad english

 

[JanSz]

Doctors have all my test results I have no one at home. Only one result I have home is (TST 18.3, PRL 5.9 FSH 2.8 LH 4.87) but there are no units ;( . I need to be tested again (full blood test and hormonal test). And I thank that you try to help me. And sorry for my bad english

Go to doctor's office and ask fo clean copy of your blood tests. Take good chocolate with you, it may help when talking with nurses.

Usin Proscar depresses DHT, make sure you are tested for DHT.

 

[GenesisSVK]

Ok I'll go to my doctor. I need new test because nobody measured me DHT, SHBG or free testosteron. Are there any drugs or suplemments I should try? I was taking Jamieson Siberian and Korean ginseng and tribullus, yohimbin, and rhodiola.

 

[MarkLA]

Ok I'll go to my doctor. I need new test because nobody measured me DHT, SHBG or free testosteron. Are there any drugs or suplemments I should try? I was taking Jamieson Siberian and Korean ginseng and tribullus, yohimbin, and rhodiola.

I think the collective consensus is going to tell you to post all of your bloodwork with the ranges FIRST. Once your numbers are known, then someone may make a recommendation on how to fix them

 

[KSman]

Hi. I'm 28 years old and I'm from Slovakia (It is in Europe). I'm sorry my English is not good but I'll try. I'm off finasterid for 6 years and I still have side effects. I used it oraly. When I stopped oral administration (1mg/day during one year) because of side effect (depression) I started with homemade alcoholic solution of finasterid and dutasterid. Daily topical dose contained 100mcg of finasterid and 30 mcg dutasterid (for hair this was more effective than oral administration of finasterid) but here occured my problem. Depression went away but my sexual life too. I was taking topical solution for 3 months and in this time my libido died totaly. Now I take nothing for 6 years. During 6 years no improve in my libido (I'm nearly asexual). I tried everything (Testosteron replacement, ginseng, siberian ginseng, rhodiola, leuzea, tribulus, multivitamins, mesterolon as a DHT replacement, piracetam for nerves regeneration, sport, walking) but no improve. I have extreme low libido, my erection is weak, I suffer premature ejaculation. I lost all my girlfriends and now I'm totally alone for 6 years. My hormonal profile (testosterone, prolactin, LH, FSH, thyroid hormone) is ok thus all sexologist said that I'm Ok but I'm not. I need girlfriend for my emotional life but Girls dont want me because of I hate sex. I wish to have family but I can't reach this . PLS Can somebody help me?

You did not mention estrogen/estradiol (E). Elevated E can make block the effects of even high testosterone levels.

We use different lab units here and this might be a problem. When you get copies of your lab work, post units and lab ranges as well.

For estradiol (E2), it would look something like this here:

Estrodiol 37 pg/ml (0-53)

Always obtain and keep copies of your lab work!!!

Drugs that reduce DHT are known to have severe effects in some cases and ongoing problems have been reported here. DHT is important!!! and not just a hair loss issue.

With a range of E2 of 0-53 pg/ml, 17-20 is known to optimal for libido. For me, with TRT, my T was very high and my E2=37. I started arimidex/anastrozole at 1mg/week and E2 dropped to 22 and life improved greatly.

Suggest TRT at 100mg/wk of testosterone cypionate or ethanate, 250iu HCG SQ/SC EOD and 1mg/wk (in divided doses) Arimidex/anastrozole. This would be a good start and adjustments can be made from there after lab work.

Will you have a problem getting a doctor to try the above?

Injections are not bad, you can inject the HCG and the T with small insulin syringes. More info on that if you need that... PM me any time.

The HCG will help maintain your testicles or restore them. Many also report an improvement in mood with HCG.

Your english is very good!

 

[GenesisSVK]

I can't go to doctor now because I'm using testosteron (250mg/2weeks - testosteron mix 30mg-propionas, 60mg phenylpropionas,60mgisocaproas, 100mg decanoas) I also have american cypionate but testosteron mix- sustanon is a better choice. My using of testosteron would affect test results that is why I have to wait some time for balancing my hormonal levels. I asked my doctor to measure me estradiol and DHT but he said that it is irrelevant because high levels of DHT or Estradiols decrease total testosteron and that testosteron is determinant. Aridimex is not registered here in Slovakia even Black market. But I could try for example clomifene citrat (clomid) or tamoxifen. And yes you are right finasterid is great risk but at that time I was using it, his developer asserted it is very safe (6 percent side effects only and all reversible).

 

[JanSz]

I can't go to doctor now because I'm using testosteron (250mg/2weeks - testosteron mix 30mg-propionas, 60mg phenylpropionas,60mgisocaproas, 100mg decanoas) I also have american cypionate but testosteron mix- sustanon is a better choice. My using of testosteron would affect test results that is why I have to wait some time for balancing my hormonal levels. I asked my doctor to measure me estradiol and DHT but he said that it is irrelevant because high levels of DHT or Estradiols decrease total testosteron and that testosteron is determinant. Aridimex is not registered here in Slovakia even Black market. But I could try for example clomifene citrat (clomid) or tamoxifen. And yes you are right finasterid is great risk but at that time I was using it, his developer asserted it is very safe (6 percent side effects only and all reversible).

#1. Please post everything that you are using, specially those that affect your hormones.

#2. Without blood tests I cannot comment much on your Sustenon-250 use or Cypionate, other than your
dose 250mg/2week looks reasoneble.
Your dosing frequency is not good, change to E3D, every three days.
250/14*3=53.57mg/E3D

You should also use HCG, 250iu - 500iu on same days as T (E3D)
Other people may argue about amount and schedule.
Important is to use it, otherwise you testis will atrophy.

#3. Because your main problem is prior finasteride use, your symptoms are wery likely due to low DHT. Testosterone injection have a small efect on DHT. Transdermal testosterone is raising DHT level, for that reason for most men it is forbiden to put Tcream or Tgel on scrotal area.
When you find out your actual DHT level, you may have to switch to transdermal testosterone.
Depending on your DHT level, if it is real low, you may have to apply it to your scrotal area for highest boost.
Gell applied to larger area will increase DHT more.
You may have to use Androgel.
I used to use Androgel and it worked real well, raising my testosterone and DHT levels. (Well, I do not need DHT that much).

#3 To have a chance at any success with all your curent and future hormonal manipulations, you have to have blood tests.The blood test list that I posted is best that I know of, so always go there for additional tests.
Now, this is your minimum list
--------------------
Testosterone
SHBG
Estradiol, sensitive
DHT
Prolactin
--------------------

#4 you need to know your estradiol levels, if your Testoserone and DHT is in right place, wrong E2 levels will cause loss of erections. If you have E2 at the right level, many people still need Cialis to get erection. Use 2 pills weekly, if for no other reason then just to exercise your pines, it can go bad when lies long without erections.

#5 do not use Clomid or Nolva. You can get over internet LiqiDex, it is liqid Arimidex, I like it better because of ease of dosing. I use 0.5cc/E3D on same days as my T&hcg shots.

 

[KSman]

I can't go to doctor now because I'm using testosteron (250mg/2weeks - testosteron mix 30mg-propionas, 60mg phenylpropionas,60mgisocaproas, 100mg decanoas) I also have american cypionate but testosteron mix- sustanon is a better choice. My using of testosteron would affect test results that is why I have to wait some time for balancing my hormonal levels. I asked my doctor to measure me estradiol and DHT but he said that it is irrelevant because high levels of DHT or Estradiols decrease total testosteron and that testosteron is determinant. Aridimex is not registered here in Slovakia even Black market. But I could try for example clomifene citrat (clomid) or tamoxifen. And yes you are right finasterid is great risk but at that time I was using it, his developer asserted it is very safe (6 percent side effects only and all reversible).

What does your doctor think/know that you are taking now?

 

[GenesisSVK]

My doctor does not know that I'm using testosteron now. I was at 3 sexologists all of them said that my hormonal levels was ok and that I was healthy. One of them said that it is psychological problem. But no one of them told me what I can do with my low libido. That is why I'm trying to heal by myself. I don't trust doctors because any of them never helped me. I'm going to try 1.androgel or my own mixture of testosteron enantat and DHT enanthat 2. bromocriptine (therapeutical dose) ... 3. clomifen 50 mg/day after cycle. I realy don't know what other could help me. Any doctor can't describe me anything else for my libido.

 

[KSman]

My doctor does not know that I'm using testosteron now. I was at 3 sexologists all of them said that my hormonal levels was ok and that I was healthy. One of them said that it is psychological problem. But no one of them told me what I can do with my low libido. That is why I'm trying to heal by myself. I don't trust doctors because any of them never helped me. I'm going to try 1.androgel or my own mixture of testosteron enantat and DHT enanthat 2. bromocriptine (therapeutical dose) ... 3. clomifen 50 mg/day after cycle. I realy don't know what other could help me. Any doctor can't describe me anything else for my libido.

Understood.

Please note that aromatase inhibitors (AI) reduced estrogen levels. SERMs like clomid lead to increased estrogen levels while blocking the action of estrogen selectively in some tissues such as breast and hypothalamus/pituitary. Clomid does have some side effects, nolvadex would be a better choice.

While a SERM does have some benefits, note that the elevated E will have actions on other tissues.

Using SERMs for TRT (forever) does not seem to be the best plan.

Note that the amount of anastrozole that you would need would be 1.0 - 1.5 mg/wk while clomid at 350mg/wk can be expected to have some side effects driven by this larger amount of drug.

SERM's are estrogen like chemicals and the can have estrogenic side effects... some guys get very emotional in a female sort of way.

I think that you can doing a SERM, but be looking to obtain anastrozole for the long term. You can get these things, but it depends on how easily things come into your country by mail.

 

[GenesisSVK]

And what about DHT or mesterolon? They both decrease aromatase level and increase level of 5 alfa reductase. I afraid to order aridimex from black market because a lot of things in black market are fakes.

 

[JanSz]

And what about DHT or mesterolon? They both decrease aromatase level and increase level of 5 alfa reductase. I afraid to order aridimex from black market because a lot of things in black market are fakes.

There is Liquidex, many are using it.
I use it, it is liquid Arimidex.
It is easir to live with because doce can be measured accurately with insuline syringe.
Sponsor of the other board is selling it. among other products.
http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/mens-health-forum/low-t-dhea-lh-134251581.html#post557972

 

[KSman]

There is Liquidex, many are using it.
I use it, it is liquid Arimidex.
It is easir to live with because doce can be measured accurately with insuline syringe.
Sponsor of the other board is selling it. among other products.
http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/mens-health-forum/low-t-dhea-lh-134251581.html#post557972

It is an oral drug, one can measure the quantity accurately with a syringe. However, for products that come with a graduated dropper cap, one can find the number of drops per ml. Typically the solution is 1mg/ml. Dosing by the drop is easy and convenient.

 

[KSman]

And what about DHT or mesterolon? They both decrease aromatase level and increase level of 5 alfa reductase. I afraid to order aridimex from black market because a lot of things in black market are fakes.

The products that are sold to weight lifters are often good quality products. Weight lifters communicate with each other and market reputation is important to stay in business. Still need to make a good choice.

DHT and mesterolon and such do not reduce aromatase. They have less or no ability to be automatized compared to testosterone and other aromatizing steroids. So there are less aromatization effects.

Some of these reduce the effects of SHBG by saturating the SHBG, but SHBG is not reduced.

 

[GenesisSVK]

Ok. I'm going to order aromataze inhibitor (1 mg per week it will be my dose). So all together testosteron mix 250mg/2 weeks and aromataze inhibitor 1mg per week. Are there other suggestions to improve my libido?

 

[jaydee]

#3. Because your main problem is prior finasteride use, your symptoms are wery likely due to low DHT. Testosterone injection have a small efect on DHT. Transdermal testosterone is raising DHT level, for that reason for most men it is forbiden to put Tcream or Tgel on scrotal area.
When you find out your actual DHT level, you may have to switch to transdermal testosterone.
Depending on your DHT level, if it is real low, you may have to apply it to your scrotal area for highest boost.
Gell applied to larger area will increase DHT more.
You may have to use Androgel.
I used to use Androgel and it worked real well, raising my testosterone and DHT levels. (Well, I do not need DHT that much).

Why are you so sure that the finasteride problems are from low DHT? Its well known that DHT levels return to pre finasteride levels, yet the side effects still persist. Yes, it could be a DHT problem in a small number of men, but this doesnt seem to be "the big issue" here.

 

[GenesisSVK]

I'm really not sure about it. My theory is that one year's use of finasterid changed estrogen testosteron and DHT in my brain irreversibly because low DHT level decreases 5 alfa reductase and increases level od aromataze. After withdrawal of finasterid 5 alfa reductase level can't be correctly restore because of the excess of aromatase. Excess of aromatase equals excess of estrogenic compounds which decrease 5 alfa reductase level and promote level of aromatase (it is vicious circle). This all is the better case. The worst case is the increased level of estorgens and decreased level of DHT in the brain caused irreversible changes in brain cells (gynecomastia is irrevesible too) changing male brain cells to female brain cells in some part of the brain. In addition 5 alfa reductase transform not only testosterone to DHT but also progesteron and other steroid hormones hence the irreversible damage can be more complex. Finasterid and dutasterid also are really for some people dangerous drugs and decrease quality of life. For example When I was taking it I had really bad depression (suicide was really close).

 

[jaydee]

Wow Genisis, thats a pretty full on theory youve got there about the brain cells.....is that even possible?

I know what you mean about the depression, but mine kicked in only after I stopped taking it. There is not a day that goes by since where suicide has not been a serious option. Like you said, qualitly of life is severly compromised. The stuff doesnt KILL you, it just really screws you up, which I think is worse.

The thing with the finasteride problems are that even when guys have their hormones returned to normal and even finely tuned, some still dont recover...so what the hell is it?

 

[GenesisSVK]

I have been studying pharmacology, medicine and genetics since my fourteen. There is only thing I can surely say. All doctors or medicine developers know really very very little about how the body work and how the drugs affect the body systems. Doctors these days are more dangerous as condition itself (actually not doctors but drugs they prescibe (for examle all antidepressant, antipsychotics, stanins, aromataze inhibitors etc.). One condition is treated a two are arising. For future only hope for treating of conditions is genetics. pharmacology is too dangerous.

 

[jaydee]

I have been studying pharmacology, medicine and genetics since my fourteen. There is only thing I can surely say. All doctors or medicine developers know really very very little about how the body work and how the drugs affect the body systems. Doctors these days are more dangerous as condition itself (actually not doctors but drugs they prescibe (for examle all antidepressant, antipsychotics, stanins, aromataze inhibitors etc.). One condition is treated a two are arising. For future only hope for treating of conditions is genetics. pharmacology is too dangerous.

I couldnt agree with you more. I hope your a stayer around here, cause it sounds like you know your stuff....

 

[GenesisSVK]

It is actually irrelevant if I have truth or not because my truth doesn't help to anybody. I was studing because I wanted to help all people to be happy and healthy I was really optimist. But informations I have colected within 14 years are not optimistic. I really know a lot about genetics, pharmacology and medicine but I'm not able to help myself. That is why I'm here and trying to collect another informations.

 

[GenesisSVK]

jaydee sorry due to my bad english I have not quite understood what you have written. Have you written that after withdrawal of finasterid your depression has emerged???

 

[jaydee]

Yes Genisis...it was when I STOPPED the drug that I all the issues start. I had all the sides while on the drug, but on a much smaller scale. I would describe what happened when I dropped the drug as a "crash". Everything seemed to stop working.....and the depression started then.

 

[JanSz]

Ok. I'm going to order aromataze inhibitor (1 mg per week it will be my dose). So all together testosteron mix 250mg/2 weeks and aromataze inhibitor 1mg per week. Are there other suggestions to improve my libido?

You are not listening.
Take your 250mg/2week dose=125mg/week
and do it preferably E3D
but
once/week may work.

Libido depends more on E than T.
============================================
http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/522135-post3.html
The hormones that can influence libido directly or indirectly include:
1 Testosterone
2 Dihydrotestosterone
3 Estradiol and other estrogens
4 Progesterone
5 DHEA
6 Cortisol
7 Aldosterone
8 Pregnenolone
9 Thyroid Hormones
10 Insulin
11 Glucagon
12 IGF-1
13 Growth Hormone
14 Melatonin
15 Vasopressin
16 Calcitonin
17 TSH
18 LH
19 FSH
20 GHRH
21 Prolactin
22 CRH
23 ACTH
24 TRH
25 Epinephrine
26 Norepinephrine
27 Dopamine
28 Serotonin
29 Oxytocin
30 Endorphins
31 Somatostatin
32 Renin
33 EPO
34 Angiotensins
etc.etc. (practically every hormone)
Of course, some have greater influence than others.
But all are involved in a tight mesh of function.
Abnormalities in one can permeate the entire system,
causing problems with the others.

 

[JanSz]

Why are you so sure that the finasteride problems are from low DHT? Its well known that DHT levels return to pre finasteride levels, yet the side effects still persist. Yes, it could be a DHT problem in a small number of men, but this doesnt seem to be "the big issue" here.

By obseration, I am not doctor or scientist.

When someone complains about finasteride
first question should be
what is your DHT level

from here on usually I see hand waving and no reported DHT levels.

Suposedly finasteride affects 2-5% men using it.

I am guessing that out of that pool of people, 1% is affected by other than low DHT levels.

So it is mater of proportions.

That does not help the couple dozens of men that have high DHT and after finasteride problems, but they are definite minority within minority.

 

[JanSz]

Wow Genisis, thats a pretty full on theory youve got there about the brain cells.....is that even possible?

I know what you mean about the depression, but mine kicked in only after I stopped taking it. There is not a day that goes by since where suicide has not been a serious option. Like you said, qualitly of life is severly compromised. The stuff doesnt KILL you, it just really screws you up, which I think is worse.

The thing with the finasteride problems are that even when guys have their hormones returned to normal and even finely tuned, some still dont recover...so what the hell is it?

What were your
T, E2 and DHT levels
at the time when you were suicidal?
How long have you been on those levels before you got so much depressed?

 

[GenesisSVK]

jaydee ... did you try Testosteron replacement therapy???




JanSz thank ... this is very nice list of hormones and neurohormones ). And I'm listening but I have written it wrong. What do you think about testocaps (testosteron undecanoate - lower aromatization and greater DHT production as injectable testosteron esters). Wouldn't it be to prefer testocaps to injectable esters?

 

[jaydee]

T was about 550, E was around 28 and DHT blood test showed absoulute bottom of range.....2 ref (2 - 20)....or somthing like that....cant remember and i was never given the units for that one either. The depression was instant..I felt like id been hit by a truck after the finasteride....couldnt do anything and was "down in a hole". Im not as bad now, but the suicide thing props up all the time, because there a lot of the time no answers for the finasteride stuff - not much hope.

Genisis - Yes i am on TRT now and so far...no cigar - its not working.

 

[GenesisSVK]

JanSz. First side effects of finasterid affect in fact more than 2-5 percent people. In practice it is 6-19 percent and even more. Merc is really a big liar or they really did not know about it but this is not matter. Side effects are not problem but irreversible side effects are. Depresion and decreased stress management which cause finasterid is due to decreased androgenic and progesteronic and increased estrogenic stimulation in certain parts of the brain (it is as premenstrual syndrome) and usually wear off after cessation of finasterid but not if hypogonadism occured. No one have ever measured me DHT or estrogen level here in Slovakia (only prolactine, testosteron, FSH, LH, thyroxin). I really need a new hormonal test but I'm going to Austria for it.

 

[jaydee]

Genisis I agree. I dont buy the BS that Merck is claiming about finasteride. Its about money....

We'd love to have you over at the propeciahelp forum. We throw ideas around, try to help each other out...your welcome to join. We have some very knowledgable people there already, so its good to drop in every now and then.

http://www.propeciahelp.com/

 

[JanSz]

jaydee & Genisis

You see we are dealing with low DHT at least in jaydee's case.
(this is my theory for 98% cases, finasteride problem=low DHT)
it implies = raise DHT, problems should go away

I know of two ways that DHT can be risen

Using transdermal testosterone
also applying it to genital area increases it even more.

Using DHT cream
====================================

I do not need the extra DHT, bu I had a great "succes" in raising it while on Androgel (1%), DHT=229.
Must say it was lesser "success" while on 10% Tcream, DHT=143

 

[JanSz]

JanSz. First side effects of finasterid affect in fact more than 2-5 percent people. In practice it is 6-19 percent and even more. Merc is really a big liar or they really did not know about it but this is not matter. Side effects are not problem but irreversible side effects are. Depresion and decreased stress management which cause finasterid is due to decreased androgenic and progesteronic and increased estrogenic stimulation in certain parts of the brain (it is as premenstrual syndrome) and usually wear off after cessation of finasterid but not if hypogonadism occured. No one have ever measured me DHT or estrogen level here in Slovakia (only prolactine, testosteron, FSH, LH, thyroxin). I really need a new hormonal test but I'm going to Austria for it.

Measure your DHT levels.
If low, raise it to top of range.

Report if you still have problems.

 

[KSman]

Ok. I'm going to order aromataze inhibitor (1 mg per week it will be my dose). So all together testosteron mix 250mg/2 weeks and aromataze inhibitor 1mg per week. Are there other suggestions to improve my libido?

We have seen that guys injecting test every two weeks have disastrous results. The large amount injected causes a very high spike of T that promotes higher amounts of E and the higher amounts of E lead to more SHBG that lowers the free testosterone (FT). In the days before the next injection your TT and FT levels are low, E is still hanging around and you can feel very bad.

For many, injecting once a week is bad too.

I found that injecting weekly that my down days before the next injection increased until I did not feel anything from my injection. Libido was a mess and energy dropped etc. I started to inject T every other/second day (EOD/E2D). This helped a lot, but it was the addition of anastrozole that really made things right for me.

T can be injected with insulin needles into the quadriceps, much nicer than big long needles in the gluts.

 

[jaydee]

jaydee & Genisis

You see we are dealing with low DHT at least in jaydee's case.
(this is my theory for 98% cases, finasteride problem=low DHT)
it implies = raise DHT, problems should go away

I know of two ways that DHT can be risen

Using transdermal testosterone
also applying it to genital area increases it even more.

Using DHT cream
====================================

I do not need the extra DHT, bu I had a great "succes" in raising it while on Androgel (1%), DHT=229.
Must say it was lesser "success" while on 10% Tcream, DHT=143

Jansz, Im not TRYING to disagree with you here, but ive tried putting T cream on my nuts at my docs request to no avail. Previouse to that, while on Tcream applying it normally, my DHT rose to mid range which is still not high enough, but it brought no improvement whatsoever either.

At the end of the day though, we also need to check the DHT via urine.

I hope your right though, and that maybe DHT cream is somthing that might work if I add it in to what im doing already.....god i hope so!

 

[GenesisSVK]

KSman
In the past I made steroids schedules for Slovakian bodybuilding representatives. I can say that a longer ester attached more aromatisation occur (this is only true for oil based injectable testosterons). I know how to inject testosteron myself but you are really kind that you wrote it. I think highly everyone trying to help me or people who are suffering.

JanSz
Not all of persistent side effects of finasteride can be treated by DHT but I agree with you that using of DHT is very reasonable option. It is true that skin contain a lot of 5 alfa reductase hence transdermal aplication of testosteron (in depence on surface area whitch is in contact with gel) produce increased amount of DHT but I think that using of DHT gel or mesterolon (proviron) to TRT is a better choice

jaydee
Really than you for my invitation on properciahelp but I have been there registered already ). I agree with JanSz that you should try DHT (but not by application of testosteron on you nuts). Use DHT gel along with your TRT and don't use high dose of DHT if you love your hair. Have you taken some medicine for your depression?

 

[jaydee]

I agree that DHT cream would be a good option to try..but I just havnt heard of many recoveries using it. It doesnt seem like the only problem.

Ive been avoiding anti-depression pills, cause they can cause a whole host of problems with your sexual fucntion just on there own. yes it is rare, but im not willing to take chances with it yet until ive given recovery a good shot. The depression is secondary to the illness, so if i can recover from the illness, the depression will go away.

 

[GenesisSVK]

jaydee
My opinion about SSRI and other antidepressant is negative. Depression caused by finasterid or low androgenic stimulation in brain doesn't respond on antidepressant treatment. What have you everything tried to treat yoursef (I mean herbs, extracts, drugs, exercise or diet changes)?

 

[jaydee]

Ive tried a lot stuff, though admitadley I havnt tried them all so there is still some hope there. Ive tried Testosterone, HCG, Macca, DIM, Tribulus, Horny Goat Weed, Calcium D Glucarate, SAM-e, TMG and theres more, but I cant remember.

Ive mentioned this before but the only real positive thing that happened was when i first started TRT, I did get that horny feeling for a short time - a few hours, but i was just releived to know that I was capable of getting that feeling back at all....i miss it bigtime. But even then, somthing was still missing, but it was more that my penis was still feeling a little numb. All this tells me that I may have an E problem which my doctor and I are going to investigate shortly.

But since then, while on TRT, I have only felt the same as before I started TRT, somtimes worse....its very up and down. I am still in early stages and havent really tweaked anything too much yet, so again there is hope. I just dont hear of many guys who come good after taking that poison and THAT really screws with my mind and makes it hard to stay positive.

 

[JanSz]

Jansz, Im not TRYING to disagree with you here, but ive tried putting T cream on my nuts at my docs request to no avail. Previouse to that, while on Tcream applying it normally, my DHT rose to mid range which is still not high enough, but it brought no improvement whatsoever either.

At the end of the day though, we also need to check the DHT via urine.

I hope your right though, and that maybe DHT cream is somthing that might work if I add it in to what im doing already.....god i hope so!

In the previus post I wrote:
"Measure your DHT levels.
If low, raise it to top of range.

Report if you still have problems."

I should have added:
Wait 6-9 months while keeping your DHT at top range.

I say that going by my experience with depression being lifted when I started Androgel, it took way over six months for that to happen.

I know, it takes lots of patientce, persistance and belief that you are on the correct track.

GenesisSVK may have a better idea on mechanics of raising DHT.

At some point, some of men may have to make a choice between hair and depression.

 

[jaydee]

JansZ, I couldnt give a crap about my hair. If I was bald as a badger, yet got my libido back, Id be the happiest man on the planet!...lol.

Give me my libido and back and the depression will go too, I have no doubt about it. I think most any man who acquires impotence, low T, Peyronnies and zero sex drive practically overnight and AT MY AGE would also be depressed. Thats without the actual chemical imbalances that would be going on due to very low androgen activity.

 

[JanSz]

JansZ, I couldnt give a crap about my hair. If I was bald as a badger, yet got my libido back, Id be the happiest man on the planet!...lol.

Give me my libido and back and the depression will go too, I have no doubt about it. I think most any man who acquires impotence, low T, Peyronnies and zero sex drive practically overnight and AT MY AGE would also be depressed. Thats without the actual chemical imbalances that would be going on due to very low androgen activity.

First thing first;
in my case depression have priority over sex.

 

[jaydee]

Yea thats what my GP (PCP) said too. She wanted to put me on anti-depressants, but i refuse to do so until ive exhausted all possibilities to get my sexual function back. Id rather nip it in the bud and try and cure the actual problem than cover it with meds. Im sure that if i could get my TRT to work for me that the depression wouldnt be an issue since the depression is secondary to the physical side effects of the finasteride....Hope that makes sense.

Also there is the very rare occasion where even with all this physical stuff going on, I dont feel depressed about it. That co-incides with when I THINK my testosterone is working.....i feel more energetic, not bloated....etc......so it may well be just chemical thing too that will be fixed once i get my T right.....impotent or not.

 

[JanSz]

Yea thats what my GP (PCP) said too. She wanted to put me on anti-depressants, but i refuse to do so until ive exhausted all possibilities to get my sexual function back. Id rather nip it in the bud and try and cure the actual problem than cover it with meds. Im sure that if i could get my TRT to work for me that the depression wouldnt be an issue since the depression is secondary to the physical side effects of the finasteride....Hope that makes sense.

Also there is the very rare occasion where even with all this physical stuff going on, I dont feel depressed about it. That co-incides with when I THINK my testosterone is working.....i feel more energetic, not bloated....etc......so it may well be just chemical thing too that will be fixed once i get my T right.....impotent or not.

I would try to use word "finasteride" sparringly, as in context discussed it sort of relieves you from responsibility of making good will effort to adjust you hormones.

Stay away from anti-depressants.
You are on this board for a while,
were you able to have control over this list,
post your lattest numbers and how much time passed since you got this numbers (if they are any good)

DHEA sulfate
Dihydrotestosterone DHT
Estradiol, Ultra-sensitive
Estrogens, Total, Serum
Estrone,serum
Pregnenolone
Progesterone
Prolactin
SHBG
Testosterone Total

If you good on above list, look at

Rhenin
Aldosterone
Cortisol

If all above is good then
I do not know, you need real doctor, shrink-type doctor may go much deeper.

I would still try to stay away from anti-depressants,
but look at dr Marianco's rather long list

Anabolic Steroids and Bodybuilding - View Single Post - Men vs. Women's Dosing
The hormones that can influence libido directly or indirectly include:
1 Testosterone
2 Dihydrotestosterone
3 Estradiol and other estrogens
4 Progesterone
5 DHEA
6 Cortisol
7 Aldosterone
8 Pregnenolone
9 Thyroid Hormones
10 Insulin
11 Glucagon
12 IGF-1
13 Growth Hormone
14 Melatonin
15 Vasopressin
16 Calcitonin
17 TSH
18 LH
19 FSH
20 GHRH
21 Prolactin
22 CRH
23 ACTH
24 TRH
25 Epinephrine
26 Norepinephrine
27 Dopamine
28 Serotonin
29 Oxytocin
30 Endorphins
31 Somatostatin
32 Renin
33 EPO
34 Angiotensins
etc.etc. (practically every hormone)
Of course, some have greater influence than others.
But all are involved in a tight mesh of function.
Abnormalities in one can permeate the entire system,
causing problems with the others.
=============================================================================
You are visiting finasteride board, have they come to any thing practical and usefull that actualy helps in solving problem in most of the men (not all).
What is it?

 

[jaydee]

I would try to use word "finasteride" sparringly, as in context discussed it sort of relieves you from responsibility of making good will effort to adjust you hormones.

I think its important to state if youve used the drug or not, since there are differences between those who have taken it and those who havnt when it comes to TRT. From what i have read on this board and others, it seems the post fin guys have a particularly hard time getting things right.

My last lot of bloods, I have already posted here, and although some are missing from your list, I think I may have an E problem since my E was 33 at last blood draw and i have had the symptoms of too much E..bloating, itchy chest etc........

Also DHT is midrange on my bloods, so that could improve also. Everything else looks ok. It would be better for me to repost my latest results when I do them in a couple weeks when my doctor gets back to me to save going over the same results i posted on here a few times before. I dont think my last resluts would be much value since its been a few months since then.

The tests from your first list that i havnt tested are Progesterone, Pregnenlone and Total Estrogens.....Ive been curious about the Total E and Progesterone for a while.

From being on the finasteride forum, we havnt come up with any solid answers. A lot of ideas flying around...but thats about it. Not many recoveries. We are pretty much stabbing in the dark but its better than doing nothing at all I guess.

I will definately post my new lab results when I get them to see what you think of them.