estrone to e2 convresion - AnabolicMinds.com

estrone to e2 convresion

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    estrone to e2 convresion


    this is a link i found explaining something that may be happing to alot of us and not even realizing it,. Yes it is from a post menopausal women but shows how to deal with high estrone to low estrodial issue.

    - Case11a

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    YES YES YES.

    I have wrote on this extensively before and was refuted by RHPmark and Dr John, yet I am still standing by what I said.

    They both contend that E1 and E2 go hand in hand and flow and follow eachother.

    I do not believe this is ALWAYS the case. yes I do understand that in general, were one goes the others follow. Yet I do not believe this is always the case especially when exogenous T is administered. Let us not forget that T itself can break down immediately into E2 and bypass E1.

    It is a very complicated process with not alot of data to draw results on.

    "Ok.. my main course of treatment was to simply open up the backed up flood gates of estrone to "fuel" the bottomed out estradiol. This was done via Indole-3-carbinol and Calcium D-glucarate. She was also encouraged to eat four to five serving of cruciferous vegetables a day"

    I also wrote this exact same thing, on how i have also noticed from others BW on how DIM/Resveratrol/Cal D Glucarate seem to favor lowering E1 vs E2.

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    Quote Originally Posted by plymouth city View Post
    YES YES YES.

    I have wrote on this extensively before and was refuted by RHPmark and Dr John, yet I am still standing by what I said.

    They both contend that E1 and E2 go hand in hand and flow and follow eachother.

    I do not believe this is ALWAYS the case. yes I do understand that in general, were one goes the others follow. Yet I do not believe this is always the case especially when exogenous T is administered. Let us not forget that T itself can break down immediately into E2 and bypass E1.

    It is a very complicated process with not alot of data to draw results on.

    "Ok.. my main course of treatment was to simply open up the backed up flood gates of estrone to "fuel" the bottomed out estradiol. This was done via Indole-3-carbinol and Calcium D-glucarate. She was also encouraged to eat four to five serving of cruciferous vegetables a day"

    I also wrote this exact same thing, on how i have also noticed from others BW on how DIM/Resveratrol/Cal D Glucarate seem to favor lowering E1 vs E2.
    I hope more people become aware of this !! It may be the missing link to returning to homostasis. I know it is mine. I got blood test and soon urine test to prove it..

    •   
       

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    The only absolute in any of this is you can NEVER say ALWAYS for any of the pathways. We can work from the most predicatable patterns we know, but that's it. The last discussion was in a different slant, but E1 and E2 are normally in balance, and there is really no good way to "block" the interconversion. However, we know that "normal" is not relevant if you are having a problem. No doubt, DIM/I3C pushes things in the right direction (primarily relating to metablites). We all have plenty to learn on this issue, and then there's the men vs. women issue that throws another curve into things.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RPHMark View Post
    The only absolute in any of this is you can NEVER say ALWAYS for any of the pathways. We can work from the most predicatable patterns we know, but that's it. The last discussion was in a different slant, but E1 and E2 are normally in balance, and there is really no good way to "block" the interconversion. However, we know that "normal" is not relevant if you are having a problem. No doubt, DIM/I3C pushes things in the right direction (primarily relating to metablites). We all have plenty to learn on this issue, and then there's the men vs. women issue that throws another curve into things.
    Especially when were throwing the perverbial monkey wrench in the engine, i.e exogenous testosterone supplementation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by plymouth city View Post
    YES YES YES.

    I have wrote on this extensively before and was refuted by RHPmark and Dr John, yet I am still standing by what I said.

    They both contend that E1 and E2 go hand in hand and flow and follow eachother.

    I do not believe this is ALWAYS the case. yes I do understand that in general, were one goes the others follow. Yet I do not believe this is always the case especially when exogenous T is administered. Let us not forget that T itself can break down immediately into E2 and bypass E1.

    It is a very complicated process with not alot of data to draw results on.

    "Ok.. my main course of treatment was to simply open up the backed up flood gates of estrone to "fuel" the bottomed out estradiol. This was done via Indole-3-carbinol and Calcium D-glucarate. She was also encouraged to eat four to five serving of cruciferous vegetables a day"

    I also wrote this exact same thing, on how i have also noticed from others BW on how DIM/Resveratrol/Cal D Glucarate seem to favor lowering E1 vs E2.
    Note that
    Ronald Grisanti D.C., D.A.B.C.O., M.S.

    did not mention
    DIM

    well
    he did not mention Resveratol either.
    ============================== ===============
    What kind of doctor is Ronald Grisanti?
    Is hi a chiropractor?
    How is he able to have such a practice, chiropractors are not allowed to write scripts.
    I have practical interest in this question,
    my chiropractor would love to look into this type of practice.
    ============================== ===============
    This Great Smokies Diagnostic Lab report came with nicely defined desirable and undesirable ranges.
    The report is for a woman.
    Would they do this test for a man?
    What kind of test was it, blood spot, saliva, urine?
    ============================== ===============
    In last month and half I had two ladies in family having heart attack like symptoms (as suggested at first by doctors, MD's).
    Emergency room drive to hospital.
    One did not see her last daughter's wedding because of this.
    Each lady, different hospital, each 5 days stay in hospital, multiple tests, went home, no heart attack, cause unknown.
    About 7 MD's multiple specialties involved in each case, all clueless.

    Me and my niece are suspecting they are both under stress and in need of HRT. My nieces lady-boss, had similar attacks few years ago, now greatly helped/controlled by HRT. Unfortunately she lives far away, someplace in Nevada.
    Looks like need for HRT jobs is great.
    How to get straight info on HRT for ladies (without mumbo-jumbo's).
    ----------
    I was able to make HRT type discussion only with my niece.
    Both ladies looked at me clueles and suspicious and argued that after all not only they were under care of many good doctors but also some of family members are actively involved in medical field so they would know.
    After all I am retired and no medical background in my history.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    Note that
    Ronald Grisanti D.C., D.A.B.C.O., M.S.

    did not mention
    DIM

    well
    he did not mention Resveratol either.
    ============================== ===============
    What kind of doctor is Ronald Grisanti?
    Is hi a chiropractor?
    How is he able to have such a practice, chiropractors are not allowed to write scripts.
    I have practical interest in this question,
    my chiropractor would love to look into this type of practice.
    ============================== ===============
    This Great Smokies Diagnostic Lab report came with nicely defined desirable and undesirable ranges.
    The report is for a woman.
    Would they do this test for a man?
    What kind of test was it, blood spot, saliva, urine?
    ============================== ===============
    In last month and half I had two ladies in family having heart attack like symptoms (as suggested at first by doctors, MD's).
    Emergency room drive to hospital.
    One did not see her last daughter's wedding because of this.
    Each lady, different hospital, each 5 days stay in hospital, multiple tests, went home, no heart attack, cause unknown.
    About 7 MD's multiple specialties involved in each case, all clueless.

    Me and my niece are suspecting they are both under stress and in need of HRT. My nieces lady-boss, had similar attacks few years ago, now greatly helped/controlled by HRT. Unfortunately she lives far away, someplace in Nevada.
    Looks like need for HRT jobs is great.
    How to get straight info on HRT for ladies (without mumbo-jumbo's).

    Yes it that is the testing that I got done it measures 20 plus hormones and estrogen ratios. ALl I know is i do not know what is happening but I am up 10 lbs in about 3 days from being on hcg a weekfor 3 weeks plus doubling up on the fish oils as i was told plus adding in a product called unleashed that has shbg herbs, Something is really kicking it up a notch. Plus I dropped the adex to .1 every 3 days with injection so it may be my metabolism picking back up due to rebalnceing the estrogens WHOO and increasing the DHA and EPA in my blood.

    Feeling better due to
    fish oils reblancing the shbg along with the shbg supplement and backing off the adex. I hope that when I get my RBC fatty acid back to balance EPA./AA I will be off armidex completely and just may need some DIM and eat more fish..

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    JasZ
    I am sure there are qualified MD's within this area, but hard to find.

    My reseach and gut instinct is telling me that HRT for women to be not at all that different than men, albiet a few minor changes.

    I suspect that women need T + HGH just like men do albiet smaller doses. Pregnenolone + DHEA as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by plymouth city View Post
    JasZ
    I am sure there are qualified MD's within this area, but hard to find.

    My reseach and gut instinct is telling me that HRT for women to be not at all that different than men, albiet a few minor changes.

    I suspect that women need T + HGH just like men do albiet smaller doses. Pregnenolone + DHEA as well.
    Assuming that it is relevant and accurate enough,
    the test
    http://www.clinical-rounds.com/Case11estrogen.pdf

    have a very nice presentation.

    With a women there are two way of adjusting hormones.

    1. similar to men's hrt, get numbers, correct as neccesary, keep steady state

    More complicated

    2. recreate menstrual cycle
    ------------

    IIRC, Susan Sommers in her book, cites women in 80's, adjusted properly, having mestrual flows, she (Susan S), adviced her about vibrators to cool down her urges, since the woman was not able to come up wit sex partner.

    Susan mentions about juicy plump vaginas on HRT vs itchy *****y and all dried up (vaginas).

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    HRT is, in my opinion, much more complicated in women, in particular women with a uterus and ovaries (no hysterectomy/oopherectomy). That being said, the best therapy is replace what's missing, eg bio-identical HRT, which is what most of Suzanne Somers books are about. I don't think it's necessary to keep a woman cycling, but I do agree with her about doing some form of HRT (for quality of life) essentially forever. I think that's one area men's HRT is ahead in, we don't ask the man "when do you want to stop feeling well?" Women's HRT is where almost all of my experience is, and the most amazing part is when they realize so many of the problems they are having are related to their hormones.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RPHMark View Post
    HRT is, in my opinion, much more complicated in women, in particular women with a uterus and ovaries (no hysterectomy/oopherectomy). That being said, the best therapy is replace what's missing, eg bio-identical HRT, which is what most of Suzanne Somers books are about. I don't think it's necessary to keep a woman cycling, but I do agree with her about doing some form of HRT (for quality of life) essentially forever. I think that's one area men's HRT is ahead in, we don't ask the man "when do you want to stop feeling well?" Women's HRT is where almost all of my experience is, and the most amazing part is when they realize so many of the problems they are having are related to their hormones.
    What kind of experience?
    Are you practicing professional
    or
    observing females in your family or close friends.

    I have a three females at hands reach that could use help.
    Two of them definitely have their uterus and ovaries, the third one I do not know.

    Please provide as much details as you wish.
    Possibly start fresh thread on this topic.
    ============================== =======================
    "when do you want to stop feeling well?"

    above I described story

    two emergency trips to hospital
    one, mother of the bride, interupted wedding

    two five day stay in a hospital, lots of fancy tests, no diagnosis from MD's

    we are talking major not feeling very well.

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    I forget people outside pharmacy don't always know RPh is the designation for registered pharmacist. I do quite a bit of compounding bio-identical HRT (mostly for women). Obviously, I don't know their case details, but many women present with anxiety/panic attack type symptoms (who have previously never had them) duing the peri-menopausal timeframe. Normally this is due to a drop in progesterone/estrogen dominance and normally associated neurotransmitter levels falling. As you probably know heart racing, breathing problemss, and chest pain are common with this, so maybe that could be what is going on. This would not likely show up on any of the typical ER labs either. Many drs won't test actual hormone levels. We all know this should be standard practice, but it is not. Many will test LH/FSH and say they are "fine", but those levels don't generally change much duing peri-menopause as progesterone is the primary problem. To find a good HRT dr. work backwards. Go to a compounding pharmacy with a good reputation and ask them what dr to see. You can go through a group called IACP (International Acadamy of compounding pharmacists) to find a compounding pharmacy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RPHMark View Post
    I forget people outside pharmacy don't always know RPh is the designation for registered pharmacist. I do quite a bit of compounding bio-identical HRT (mostly for women). Obviously, I don't know their case details, but many women present with anxiety/panic attack type symptoms (who have previously never had them) duing the peri-menopausal timeframe. Normally this is due to a drop in progesterone/estrogen dominance and normally associated neurotransmitter levels falling. As you probably know heart racing, breathing problemss, and chest pain are common with this, so maybe that could be what is going on. This would not likely show up on any of the typical ER labs either. Many drs won't test actual hormone levels. We all know this should be standard practice, but it is not. Many will test LH/FSH and say they are "fine", but those levels don't generally change much duing peri-menopause as progesterone is the primary problem. To find a good HRT dr. work backwards. Go to a compounding pharmacy with a good reputation and ask them what dr to see. You can go through a group called IACP (International Acadamy of compounding pharmacists) to find a compounding pharmacy.
    Compounding Pharmacist Locator
    International Academy of Compounding Pharmacists:

    International Academy of Compounding Pharmacists: Home

    If you are unable to locate a compounding pharmacist within a 100 miles radius, please contact our toll-free referral line at 800-927-4227.
    ============================== =================
    20 miles from ZIP 07054
    Company Name The Alchemist Shoppe
    Pharmacist Linda Witzal R.Ph.
    Address 3175 Route 10 E.
    Denville NJ 07834
    Phone (973) 328-4477
    URL scream and cream alchemist chris at alchemistshoppe.com
    Distance Approx. 5 Miles



    Company Name Pharmacy Creations
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    Address 540 Route 10 West
    Randolph NJ 07869
    Phone (973) 328-8756
    URL Pharmacy Creations News Items
    Distance Approx. 8 Miles



    Company Name Pharmacy Creations
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    Address 540 Route 10 West
    Randolph NJ 07869
    Phone (973) 328-8756
    URL Pharmacy Creations News Items
    Distance Approx. 8 Miles



    Company Name Pharmacy Creations

    Pharmacist Scott Karolchyk "R.Ph., FIACP"
    Address 540 Route 10 West
    Randolph NJ 07869
    Phone (973) 328-8756
    URL Pharmacy Creations News Items
    Distance Approx. 8 Miles



    Company Name Pompton Pharmacy

    Pharmacist David Stahlberger "R.Ph., FIACP"
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    Pompton Plains NJ 07444
    Phone (973) 839-4200
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    Company Name Sheefa Pharmacy & Wellness Center
    Pharmacist Ashraf Latif R.Ph.
    Address 405 Central Avenue
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    URL Welcome To Sheefa Pharmacy
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    Pharmacist Howard Bleznick R.Ph.
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    Pharmacist Morris Grunes R.Ph.
    Address 36A Main St
    Bloomingdale NJ 07403
    Phone (973) 838-0909
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    Pharmacist Jillian Hocking Pharm. D.
    Address 36-A Main Street
    Bloomingdale NJ 07403
    Phone (973) 838-0909
    Distance Approx. 12 Miles


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    Pharmacist Daniel Albizati R.Ph.
    Address 559 Franklin Avenue
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    Phone (973) 235-0909
    Distance Approx. 13 Miles



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    Pharmacist George Grumet R.Ph.
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    Pharmacist David Miller R.Ph.
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    Phone (201) 891-3333
    URL Millers Pharmacy
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    Address 349 Somerset Street
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    Phone (908) 756-6695
    Distance Approx. 15 Miles



    Company Name Rock Ridge Pharmacy

    Pharmacist Matthew Kopacki "R.Ph., FIACP"
    Address 191 Rock Road
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    Distance Approx. 16 Miles


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    Phone (201) 447-2020
    Distance Approx. 17 Miles

    ============================== ============================== =======================

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    Address 931 Main Street
    Pennsburg PA 18073
    Phone (215) 679-9700
    Distance Approx. 14 Miles

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    You have some great pharmacists in your area. Scott Karolchyk, Matt Kopacki, and John Herr are ones I have spoken with at conferences before and all of them really know their stuff. Any of the ones with FIACP after their names are fellows in IACP which is an accomplishment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RPHMark View Post
    You have some great pharmacists in your area. Scott Karolchyk, Matt Kopacki, and John Herr are ones I have spoken with at conferences before and all of them really know their stuff. Any of the ones with FIACP after their names are fellows in IACP which is an accomplishment.
    I am glad you are helping me.

    I edited my post and highlited your input.

  •   

      
     

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