Low Blood Glucose

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    It looks like some other issues are pointing toward adrenal fatigue according to CF10. I may be mistaken, but I thought orthostatic hypotension was associated with adrenal fatigue also.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RPHMark View Post
    It looks like some other issues are pointing toward adrenal fatigue according to CF10. I may be mistaken, but I thought orthostatic hypotension was associated with adrenal fatigue also.
    It is associated with a few conditions, adrenal insufficiency being one. But as posted, cortisol levels were slightly elevated not low.

    I would get my insulin & c-peptide levels checked and go from there.

    Quote Originally Posted by CF10 View Post
    ...my cortisol was just above normal range (I know one time serum cortisol measurements dont tell the whole story but I dont know if he will agree), and my ACTH was smack in the middle of normal...
    Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for life. Lao Tse 6th century BC
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonny21 View Post
    It is associated with a few conditions, adrenal insufficiency being one. But as posted, cortisol levels were slightly elevated not low.

    I would get my insulin & c-peptide levels checked and go from there.
    I am learning,
    please explain what tests I would order from Quest Diagnostics when I want to check my c-peptide levels.

    ============================== ==============
    http://cas2.questdiagnostics.com/scr...SearchString2=

    C-Peptide - (372X)
    C-Peptide Response to Glucose (9 Timed Samples) - (15448X)
    C-Peptide Response to Glucose, 2 Specimen - (15843X)
    C-Peptide Response to Glucose, 3 Specimen - (15844X)
    C-Peptide Response to Glucose, 4 Specimen - (15845X)
    C-Peptide Response to Glucose, 5 Specimen - (31345X)
    C-Peptide Response to Glucose, 6 Specimen - (15846X)
    C-Peptide Response to Glucose, 7 Specimen - (15847X)
    C-Peptide Response to Glucose, 8 Specimen - (15848X)
    C-Peptide Stimulation by Glucagon (14747X) - (2287N)
    C-Peptide, 24-Hour Urine (4643X) - (8573N)
    C-Peptide, 2nd Void Urine - (11182X)
    ============================== ================

    Page #50 EndoManual_3rdEd_2004
    http://www.questdiagnostics.com/hcp/...3rdEd_2004.pdf

    C-Peptide, Serum or Urine

    Useful for distinguishing
    1) insulin-secreting tumors
    2) type 1 from type 2 diabetes (type 2 is associated with abundant C-peptide secretion)
    ============================== =================
    •   
       

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    Quote Originally Posted by RPHMark View Post
    Obivously, cost is an issue with the strips, but here is what we often have people do. It's not critical you follow this exact regimen, just record what time you test, how long after a meal it was, and what the meal consisted of.
    Day one- test upon rising and 1 to 2 hours after breakfast
    Day two- test 1 to 2 hours after lunch and just before supper
    Day three- test 1 to 2 hours after supper and just before bed
    repeat that pattern a few times and you should have a decent feel for how your blood sugar is throughout the day over a period 10 days or so. Assuming all of the meals are "typical" for your diet t this will give you quite a bit of information to work with. If you happen to wake up in the middle of the night and are really ambitious test once or twice between 2 and 5 AM (some people have a spike around then).
    Since 6/20/07, for over a month (48 days) I have been using supplements that I tought the LEF recomends for lowering glucose;
    MEGA SILYMARIN 900 MG 100 CAPS Item#00702
    ENHANCED CINNULIN PF W/GLUCOSE90 CAPS Item# 00967
    Lets see how I do:


    ;============================= ============================== =====================
    I am using OneTouch Ultra blood Glucose meter, RTR40F7FT
    Strips are OneTouch UltraSmart InDuo, Code 16, Expiration Date 10/2005, control range (94-128)mg/dL
    ;============================= ============================== =====================
    8/6/2007
    8:30AM Glucose 107 get out of bed
    9:20AM Breakfast 9:20AM end of breakfast
    1/2 lb Birds Eye Italian blend frozen vegetable
    Cauliflower, broccoli, peppers, zucchini, carrots, peas
    1piece (1oz), Crunchy breaded fish fillets, 0 transfat
    10oz coffee, 2oz 2% milk in it, no sugar,
    16 oz EarlGrey tea, no sugar
    I do not drink coffee or tea at once, I do that sipping little bit throughout the day.
    11:20AM glucose=107 /2 hours after brekfast

    3:PM 3-4PM cranbery, milk chocolate, indian-mix, keep drinkibg coffee 2nd 10oz cup, and tea second 16oz glass
    4:50PM glucose=97
    8:30PM two slices of cake, grapes and cherries at the dance club
    9:45PM glucose=113
    10:00PM Two kaiser rolls, each 4 slices of bacon, lots of onions, tea
    8/7/2007
    4:30AM glucose=125
    8:15AM glucose=107
    9:30AM Two envelopes of (Strum's organic instant oatmeal, apple cinnamon), 2 cups of whole milk, 10oz coffe no sugar
    11:45AM glucose=121
    .
    .
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    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    I am learning,
    please explain what tests I would order from Quest Diagnostics when I want to check my c-peptide levels.
    Considering that it would be ideal to have 3 or more blood draws, C-Peptide Response to Glucose, 3 Specimen - (15844X), would be the way to go. I guess you could go to walmart and purchase glucose tabs and then go to Quest.
    Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for life. Lao Tse 6th century BC
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    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    Since 6/20/07, for over a month (48 days) I have been using supplements that I tought the LEF recomends for lowering glucose;
    MEGA SILYMARIN 900 MG 100 CAPS Item#00702
    ENHANCED CINNULIN PF W/GLUCOSE90 CAPS Item# 00967
    Lets see how I do:


    ;============================= ============================== =====================
    I am using OneTouch Ultra blood Glucose meter, RTR40F7FT
    Strips are OneTouch UltraSmart InDuo, Code 16, Expiration Date 10/2005, control range (94-128)mg/dL
    ;============================= ============================== =====================
    8/6/2007
    8:30AM Glucose 107 get out of bed
    9:20AM Breakfast 9:20AM end of breakfast
    1/2 lb Birds Eye Italian blend frozen vegetable
    Cauliflower, broccoli, peppers, zucchini, carrots, peas
    1piece (1oz), Crunchy breaded fish fillets, 0 transfat
    10oz coffee, 2oz 2% milk in it, no sugar,
    16 oz EarlGrey tea, no sugar
    I do not drink coffee or tea at once, I do that sipping little bit throughout the day.
    11:20AM glucose=107 /2 hours after brekfast

    3:PM 3-4PM cranbery, milk chocolate, indian-mix, keep drinkibg coffee 2nd 10oz cup, and tea second 16oz glass
    4:50PM glucose=97
    8:30PM two slices of cake, grapes and cherries at the dance club
    9:45PM glucose=113
    10:00PM Two kaiser rolls, each 4 slices of bacon, lots of onions, tea
    8/7/2007
    4:30AM glucose=125
    8:15AM glucose=107
    9:30AM Two envelopes of (Strum's organic instant oatmeal, apple cinnamon), 2 cups of whole milk, 10oz coffe no sugar
    11:45AM glucose=121
    .
    .
    Whoa fish for breakfast!?! My stomach would hate me ...and so would the toilet!
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    I'd be leaning towards the adrenal fatigue camp:

    http://www.merck.com/mmpe/sec12/ch153/ch153b.html
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    Another area you may want to look into is neurotransmitter depletion. This is something I am investigating myself after I had a urinalysis done and tested very low for neurotransmitters.

    http://www.drkaslow.com/html/neurotr...repletion.html
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    JanSz,
    Considering some of the meals, your postprandial BS are not that high, just on the higher end of normal (which is in line with your HA1C). Just keep an eye on it and try to stick with higer fiber, low GI carbs. You might try your own "glucose challange" at home. It is admittedly not a controlled test, but you will get some idea of how your insulin response is. Just check your sugar at 1, 1 1/2, and 2 hours after a high sugar snack (soft drink plus something plenty sugary to eat will due, make it count!). If your sugars still stay in that 120 range then really no worries. If they go toward 140 or higher and stay there a while then there could be some issue.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RPHMark View Post
    JanSz,
    Considering some of the meals, your postprandial BS are not that high, just on the higher end of normal (which is in line with your HA1C). Just keep an eye on it and try to stick with higer fiber, low GI carbs. You might try your own "glucose challange" at home. It is admittedly not a controlled test, but you will get some idea of how your insulin response is. Just check your sugar at 1, 1 1/2, and 2 hours after a high sugar snack (soft drink plus something plenty sugary to eat will due, make it count!). If your sugars still stay in that 120 range then really no worries. If they go toward 140 or higher and stay there a while then there could be some issue.
    I will do just that and report back.

    Have good excuse to eat sweets.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RPHMark View Post
    JanSz,
    Considering some of the meals, your postprandial BS are not that high, just on the higher end of normal (which is in line with your HA1C). Just keep an eye on it and try to stick with higer fiber, low GI carbs. You might try your own "glucose challange" at home. It is admittedly not a controlled test, but you will get some idea of how your insulin response is. Just check your sugar at 1, 1 1/2, and 2 hours after a high sugar snack (soft drink plus something plenty sugary to eat will due, make it count!). If your sugars still stay in that 120 range then really no worries. If they go toward 140 or higher and stay there a while then there could be some issue.
    Thanks RPHMark

    what do you make of this.

    I guess I am ok?? What do you say??

    Should I drop my glucose lowering supplements that I recently started, I think they do not make much if any difference.
    I am taking
    MEGA SILYMARIN 900 MG 100 CAPS Item#00702
    ENHANCED CINNULIN PF W/GLUCOSE90 CAPS Item# 00967
    ----------------------------------------------------------


    wednesday August 8/2007
    I forgot to measure glucose when I got out off bed, yesterday and usually it is=107
    8:10AM two raw eggs beaten with four tablespoons of sugar, coffe+milk no sugar
    About 20 minutes latter I felt heavy and under pressure, lasted about 10 minutes.
    9:10AM glucose=91
    9:40AM glucose=102
    10:10AM glucose=105
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    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    wednesday August 8/2007
    I forgot to measure glucose when I got out off bed, yesterday and usually it is=107
    8:10AM two raw eggs beaten with four tablespoons of sugar, coffe+milk no sugar
    About 20 minutes latter I felt heavy and under pressure, lasted about 10 minutes.
    9:10AM glucose=91
    9:40AM glucose=102
    10:10AM glucose=105
    You really should stick with glucose only meals so the results are not skewed by alterations to the glycemic response from other macronutrients. Glucose tablets are available at most if not all pharmacies as well as walmart and other supermarkets.

    BTW, your glucose levels are excellent.
    Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for life. Lao Tse 6th century BC
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonny21 View Post
    You really should stick with glucose only meals so the results are not skewed by alterations to the glycemic response from other macronutrients. Glucose tablets are available at most if not all pharmacies as well as walmart and other supermarkets.

    BTW, your glucose levels are excellent.
    If my glucose levels are excellent on four tablespoons of sugar, then possibly it is all I need to know.

    Please give me high or low number for each time I tested so I have some boundary, numbers that would make you tell me that I am on the egde of acceptable range.
    Say when I think of FreeT range is (160-250), when I am below, I incease T dose, when I am above, I decrease T dose.

    1hour-glucose=XXX
    1 1/2 hour-glucose=YYY
    2 hour-glucose=ZZZ



    What do you say about those two supplements, I probably shoud drop them, hmm?
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    CF10 -
    your symptoms sound almost identical to what i've been experiencing.

    i'm going in for a blood glucose test tomorrow w/my doctor.

    i used my friends glucose meter three months ago to see what my blood sugar is at and it actually dropped to 51 just 1hr after eating a huge bowl of frosted mini wheats.

    i figured it might be reactive hypoglycimia so i changed my diet very significantly. - cut high glycemic carbs, cut almost all sugars except some fruit and milk, and eat low carbohydrate in general.
    since this change i have experienced increasing diabetic like symptoms - frequent urination, headaches, trouble concentrating, poor sleep.

    i'll let you know what my doc says.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    If my glucose levels are excellent on four tablespoons of sugar, then possibly it is all I need to know.
    Good point.

    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    Please give me high or low number for each time I tested so I have some boundary, numbers that would make you tell me that I am on the egde of acceptable range.
    Say when I think of FreeT range is (160-250), when I am below, I incease T dose, when I am above, I decrease T dose.

    1hour-glucose=XXX
    1 1/2 hour-glucose=YYY
    2 hour-glucose=ZZZ
    1/2hr: <200mg/dl
    1hr: <180-200mg/dl (depends on lab
    2hr: <140mg/dl
    3hr: 60-100mg/dl

    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    What do you say about those two supplements, I probably shoud drop them, hmm?
    I have no knowledge of your past medical history and would not be qualified to make that determination.
    Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for life. Lao Tse 6th century BC
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hank Vangut View Post
    CF10 -
    your symptoms sound almost identical to what i've been experiencing.

    i'm going in for a blood glucose test tomorrow w/my doctor.

    i used my friends glucose meter three months ago to see what my blood sugar is at and it actually dropped to 51 just 1hr after eating a huge bowl of frosted mini wheats.

    i figured it might be reactive hypoglycimia so i changed my diet very significantly. - cut high glycemic carbs, cut almost all sugars except some fruit and milk, and eat low carbohydrate in general.
    since this change i have experienced increasing diabetic like symptoms - frequent urination, headaches, trouble concentrating, poor sleep.

    i'll let you know what my doc says.
    Yes please get back to me and let me know what happens. I too have frequent urination. I do drink a lot of fluids though so maybe it's not a problem, I hope.
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    JanSz,
    No real reason to quit the supplements unless you just want to experiment. Both of them offer health benefits even if your sugars stay where they are. Like I said, for the most part those BS look pretty good. The eggs could really blunt the effect of the sugar you had with them though. The only thing you might still want to try is the "mini-glucose" challenge I talked about. It's ideal for it to be all glucose (I think 75g) like the lab test, but not entirely necesscary. Just try to avoid high fat or protein in the "challenge" as they can blunt the spike some. If your post-prandial readings stay 130 and below then no worries. If they get to 140 and above and stay there then there is some concern. I disagree a bit with jonny21 on this, as many experts consider ANY reading over 160 at any time diagnostic for pre-diabetes/diabetes.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RPHMark View Post
    ...If they get to 140 and above and stay there then there is some concern. I disagree a bit with jonny21 on this, as many experts consider ANY reading over 160 at any time diagnostic for pre-diabetes/diabetes.
    Those are the reference ranges per Mosby's. I am not sure but they probably allow for longer second-phase insulin secretion. The endocrinologist that I frequently talk with does say that between first & second-phase insulin secretion most healthy people's glucose levels should not exceed 140mg/dl regardless of the glucose load.
    Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for life. Lao Tse 6th century BC
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    Quote Originally Posted by RPHMark View Post
    JanSz,
    No real reason to quit the supplements unless you just want to experiment. Both of them offer health benefits even if your sugars stay where they are. Like I said, for the most part those BS look pretty good. The eggs could really blunt the effect of the sugar you had with them though. The only thing you might still want to try is the "mini-glucose" challenge I talked about. It's ideal for it to be all glucose (I think 75g) like the lab test, but not entirely necesscary. Just try to avoid high fat or protein in the "challenge" as they can blunt the spike some. If your post-prandial readings stay 130 and below then no worries. If they get to 140 and above and stay there then there is some concern. I disagree a bit with jonny21 on this, as many experts consider ANY reading over 160 at any time diagnostic for pre-diabetes/diabetes.
    Thank you RPHMark and jonny21

    you guys put my glucose/A1c worries to bed.

    now if I could only figure out how to break the musicality barrier in my West Coast Swing (WCS) hobby, I will be a happy camper.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    Thank you RPHMark and jonny21

    you guys put my glucose/A1c worries to bed.

    now if I could only figure out how to break the musicality barrier in my West Coast Swing (WCS) hobby, I will be a happy camper.
    One more question.

    Is Gymnema Sylwestre worth anything.

    I am giong to drop the two LEF supplements that I already got at home.
    (They are recomended by LEF when controling high glucose, and so far did not made any changes).

    I just got three bottles of NowFoods Gymnema Sylwestre because somebody here mentioned it and when googled other people speak favorably about it.

    LEF do not sell and even do not discuss Gymnema Sylwestre,
    hence my dillema.
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    JanSz- The literature says it should be worth trying, but I really haven't heard anyone say it was a miracle for them or anything close. The cinnamon extract supposably should be good as well. My experience isn't great with nutritionals vs. blood sugar because we deal mainly with diabetics who are past the point of preventing a problem and need more aggressive therapy. That being said, some say those two supplements have helped.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RPHMark View Post
    JanSz- The literature says it should be worth trying, but I really haven't heard anyone say it was a miracle for them or anything close. The cinnamon extract supposably should be good as well. My experience isn't great with nutritionals vs. blood sugar because we deal mainly with diabetics who are past the point of preventing a problem and need more aggressive therapy. That being said, some say those two supplements have helped.
    How to prevent diabetic?
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    There is evidence out there now that those with pre-diabetes/metabolic syndrome can at least delay the development of diabetes (if not prevent it) in a few ways. One is exercise of course. Another is to modify carbohydrate intake, by reducing total carbs and greatly reducing the glycemic index of the carbs that are eaten. Third is to increase insulin sensitivity/reduce hypreinsulinemia with supplements like cinnamon extract, gymnea, alpha lipoic acid, and chromium and/or prescription drugs like metformin. Weight loss is another obvious goal if overweight.
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    I had my GTT this week and the results were given to me by phone the other day, so I dont have the actual numbers hour by hour yet but I will get them soon. What I do know is that my blood sugar dropped to 45mg/dl at the 2 hour mark after drinking 75g of glucose. I've been instructed to eat 6 small meals a day and avoid all the common bad foods....which sucks because I already do everything that they recommended I do and I still have the problem.

    I guess this means I am insulin resistant, which may be a result of having low T. But are there other reasons for reactive hypoglycemia besides insulin resistance? I havent found any yet.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CF10 View Post
    I had my GTT this week and the results were given to me by phone the other day, so I dont have the actual numbers hour by hour yet but I will get them soon. What I do know is that my blood sugar dropped to 45mg/dl at the 2 hour mark after drinking 75g of glucose. I've been instructed to eat 6 small meals a day and avoid all the common bad foods....which sucks because I already do everything that they recommended I do and I still have the problem.

    I guess this means I am insulin resistant, which may be a result of having low T. But are there other reasons for reactive hypoglycemia besides insulin resistance? I havent found any yet.

    Seems more like you are hypgoglycemic than insulin-resistant. In someone who is insulin resistant, you would expect to see blood glucose to still be elevated after two hours -- not as elevated as someone with diabetes, but more elevated than someone who has no problem with glucose metabolism.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cpeil2 View Post
    Seems more like you are hypgoglycemic than insulin-resistant. In someone who is insulin resistant, you would expect to see blood glucose to still be elevated after two hours -- not as elevated as someone with diabetes, but more elevated than someone who has no problem with glucose metabolism.
    That's exactly what I wanted to hear! I hope it is the case. So what would cause the hypo reaction?
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    Quote Originally Posted by CF10 View Post
    I had my GTT this week and the results were given to me by phone the other day, so I dont have the actual numbers hour by hour yet but I will get them soon. What I do know is that my blood sugar dropped to 45mg/dl at the 2 hour mark after drinking 75g of glucose. I've been instructed to eat 6 small meals a day and avoid all the common bad foods....which sucks because I already do everything that they recommended I do and I still have the problem.

    I guess this means I am insulin resistant, which may be a result of having low T. But are there other reasons for reactive hypoglycemia besides insulin resistance? I havent found any yet.
    Yes there are.
    http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/hypoglycemia/DS00198
    Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for life. Lao Tse 6th century BC
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    Quote Originally Posted by CF10 View Post
    I had my GTT this week and the results were given to me by phone the other day, so I dont have the actual numbers hour by hour yet but I will get them soon. What I do know is that my blood sugar dropped to 45mg/dl at the 2 hour mark after drinking 75g of glucose. I've been instructed to eat 6 small meals a day and avoid all the common bad foods....which sucks because I already do everything that they recommended I do and I still have the problem.

    I guess this means I am insulin resistant, which may be a result of having low T. But are there other reasons for reactive hypoglycemia besides insulin resistance? I havent found any yet.
    SAme thing happen to me
    resting was 80 1 hour was 160 2 hours was 55 3 hours 42.
    Adrenal fatigue woudl be no brainer lack of cortisol to combat the rise of insulin.

    See i know the results before the test even it was a no brainer. Gynmemma should help regulate inuslin levels gievn this information then like me youre shbg is probably around 35-40 area since you are insulin sensitive not resistant. Now they needed to measure the out put of insulin at each time to see if body was puting out too much.

    Ok now we need to look at
    adrenal issues - cortef would be initiated here under drs care
    methyation issues - check homcysteine levels, insulin may not be broken down properly
    hypothryoidism - a given
    estrogen metabolism - good to bad estrogen ratio
    gut dysbiosis - good bacteria help regulate insulin

    Found several articles where correcting methyation actually reduced need for majority of thyroid mediicnes
    Low methyation causes hypothyroidism sucking out gluthione which sam-e could help regenerate

    Inuslin problems mainly stem from the liver -correct the imbalnce body will rebalance it self

    Again we are going back to the gut/brain/liver sequence again.

    add some digestive enyzme in with each meal and 400 mgs gynmeema @ 25% active compenents 3 times a day for 1-2 months. REducing the insulin will reduce stress on the adrenals. You bodybuilder life style did you in constant up and down with blood sugar every 2 hours over how many years stressed your body. Prabably over training lack of sleep hygiene all factors in..WELCOME TO THE CLUB !!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973 View Post
    SAme thing happen to me
    resting was 80 1 hour was 160 2 hours was 55 3 hours 42.
    Adrenal fatigue woudl be no brainer lack of cortisol to combat the rise of insulin.

    See i know the results before the test even it was a no brainer. Gynmemma should help regulate inuslin levels gievn this information then like me youre shbg is probably around 35-40 area since you are insulin sensitive not resistant. Now they needed to measure the out put of insulin at each time to see if body was puting out too much.

    Ok now we need to look at
    adrenal issues - cortef would be initiated here under drs care
    methyation issues - check homcysteine levels, insulin may not be broken down properly
    hypothryoidism - a given
    estrogen metabolism - good to bad estrogen ratio
    gut dysbiosis - good bacteria help regulate insulin

    Found several articles where correcting methyation actually reduced need for majority of thyroid mediicnes
    Low methyation causes hypothyroidism sucking out gluthione which sam-e could help regenerate

    Inuslin problems mainly stem from the liver -correct the imbalnce body will rebalance it self

    Again we are going back to the gut/brain/liver sequence again.

    add some digestive enyzme in with each meal and 400 mgs gynmeema @ 25% active compenents 3 times a day for 1-2 months. REducing the insulin will reduce stress on the adrenals. You bodybuilder life style did you in constant up and down with blood sugar every 2 hours over how many years stressed your body. Prabably over training lack of sleep hygiene all factors in..WELCOME TO THE CLUB !!!
    Nice post, lots of info. Couple Q's and statements:

    1. The doctor has already told me I do not have adrenal fatigue. I have plenty of cortisol.

    2. I had a high TSH reading a few months ago, but more recently it has measured normal twice, although at the high end of normal being 2.5 and 3.5.

    3. Could you explain what methyation is and how it works?

    4. Gut dysbiosis gets my attention immediately because it refers to the stomach and I used to have serious stomach issues. I looked up gastric dumping syndrome and it basically described my symptoms as a teenager perfectly. Debilatating stomach pain that prohibited me from living life, always afraid of the pain coming on, lost a lot of weight and got very thin. What exactly is gut dysbiosis and would it be something that would be more likely in me given my history?

    5. I do have slightly elevated AST liver enzymes. Would that tie in with the gut/brain/liver sequence and the hypoglycemia?


    Sorry for all the questions. I didnt have too much trouble figuring out the HPTA and how it works but food metabolism is even more complex. I have a hard time grasping how the stomach and insulin and liver and everything ties in, besides the basics I'm lost.
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    I will restate it, get your insulin & c-peptide levels checked.

    This sounds pancreatic/beta cell type of stuff. But I do not know nearly enough not am I qualified to make a diagnosis.

    I can tell you that I have seen similar reactions even to the point where I had a woman receiving an IVF of D10W and we still could not keep her glucose levels >60. That was also thought to be adrenal but she was transferred to another hospital before they made any determination.

    Gastric dumping is typically r/t to high osmotic load into the small intestine. Usually happens when those with a gastric bypass have concentrated sweets.
    Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for life. Lao Tse 6th century BC
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    Quote Originally Posted by CF10 View Post
    Nice post, lots of info. Couple Q's and statements:

    1. The doctor has already told me I do not have adrenal fatigue. I have plenty of cortisol.

    2. I had a high TSH reading a few months ago, but more recently it has measured normal twice, although at the high end of normal being 2.5 and 3.5.

    3. Could you explain what methyation is and how it works?

    4. Gut dysbiosis gets my attention immediately because it refers to the stomach and I used to have serious stomach issues. I looked up gastric dumping syndrome and it basically described my symptoms as a teenager perfectly. Debilatating stomach pain that prohibited me from living life, always afraid of the pain coming on, lost a lot of weight and got very thin. What exactly is gut dysbiosis and would it be something that would be more likely in me given my history?

    5. I do have slightly elevated AST liver enzymes. Would that tie in with the gut/brain/liver sequence and the hypoglycemia?


    Sorry for all the questions. I didnt have too much trouble figuring out the HPTA and how it works but food metabolism is even more complex. I have a hard time grasping how the stomach and insulin and liver and everything ties in, besides the basics I'm lost.
    Ok you have plenty of cortisol is but how much of it is active or you know seeing a needle would cause a high cortisol response in space and time but then drop like a rock an hour later GET MY DRIFT so your dr is wrong saying your cortisol is normal Gastric dumping is again adrenal related. People with adrneal fatigue has fast gastric dumping ending up with what is called GERD. Again it all goes back to liver and bile acid build up. Basiacally when wver you eat your bile acids which are should be excreted are recirulating back in the liver and causing major dysruption to your digestive tract. Excessive bile acid build up in your liver is doing you no good because you are not releasing the bile acids into your digestion tract to help in food digestion primary fat digestion.

    Ok back to the basics- if you can not absorb fats you can not create hormones correct and you need bile acid to absorb those fats. So super digestive enyzme by now has oxbile in it to help you replace the bile acid that you are not releasing from the liver into the digestion tract to help digest the fat and even help break down protein. If fats are not digested properly they oxidize and create free radical in your body (AKA rancid fats) that clog up your liver pathways more causing even more digestion and hormone issues. With out proper digestion of fat to slow things down it just DUMPS what remains into the large intestine where bad bacteria are waiting to have a feast and multiply like crazy and override your good bacteria which helps to recycle these toxic bile acids in the liver and so the cycle begins again..

    Lamens terms
    you are with holding toxic bile acid build up in the liver that are not being recylced properly and every time fat enters in to your system or food these toxic bile acids are released spraying and irritating your intestinal wall. Reason they are not being recycled properly is because the fact that your dybiosis of the bowel (good vs bad bacteria) is out of balance. ITs called bile acid sequetoring. Now by adding in digestive enyzme with oxbile you are porviding the proper bile to break down your FAts and cholesterol..

    Serum cortisol is worthless essay for measure adrenal out put.
    24 hour is more suitable or salvia test. Bank on it you have adrenal fatgue !! inspite what your dr saids...Have him run a free cortisol and see the difference..whre is your e2 at and shbg ?
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    Thanks HAN. I may just take that entire post and show it to the doc. I havent had SHBG or E2 tested either.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CF10 View Post
    Thanks HAN. I may just take that entire post and show it to the doc.
    And he might actually fall down laughing.

    If you were having any problems with bile flow, or lack there of, you would have noticeable stooling issues r/t fat malabsorption.

    Please do put to much credence in what has been posted re: Dx. Get more tests done as stated previously. Maybe an US of pancreas/liver.
    Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for life. Lao Tse 6th century BC
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonny21 View Post
    And he might actually fall down laughing.

    If you were having any problems with bile flow, or lack there of, you would have noticeable stooling issues r/t fat malabsorption.

    Please do put to much credence in what has been posted re: Dx. Get more tests done as stated previously. Maybe an US of pancreas/liver.
    OK, well damn now I dont know what to think. I mean I honestly do not think I have adrenal fatigue and the doc agrees but it always keeps getting thrown at me on this forum so it makes me wonder. You disagree with HAN's bile theory but what do you think about the adrenal issue. My cortisol has always been within range on blood tests and my ACTH was also right in the middle of normal. By the way I am not scared of needles, at least not enough to cause cortisol to be top of the spectrum.

    EDIT: I am not throwing the adrenal fatigue idea out the window though, I know it's a possibility. I just see it thrown around as a diagnosis so much on here, almost like no matter what I say or what tests show, someone will always suggest it.

    Ultrasound of the pancreas...would you be suggesting an insulin-secreting tumor? Remember my fasting glucose is perfectly normal. I only have postprandial hypoglycemia.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CF10 View Post
    OK, well damn now I dont know what to think. I mean I honestly do not think I have adrenal fatigue and the doc agrees but it always keeps getting thrown at me on this forum so it makes me wonder. You disagree with HAN's bile theory but what do you think about the adrenal issue. My cortisol has always been within range on blood tests and my ACTH was also right in the middle of normal. By the way I am not scared of needles, at least not enough to cause cortisol to be top of the spectrum.

    Ultrasound of the pancreas...would you be suggesting an insulin-secreting tumor? Remember my fasting glucose is perfectly normal. I only have postprandial hypoglycemia.
    You need to find out what your insulin/c-protein levels are. They should have tested them when you went for your GTT. That way they measure the insulin response to the glucose load.

    My head goes to pancreas/liver.
    Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for life. Lao Tse 6th century BC
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonny21 View Post
    You need to find out what your insulin/c-protein levels are. They should have tested them when you went for your GTT. That way they measure the insulin response to the glucose load.

    My head goes to pancreas/liver.
    Yeah I would hope they did, but I worry that they didnt for some reason. Dont ask me why I just have a feeling they didnt because it is something I want to know and so far the docs havent done a great job of testing the things I want. Of course I care about health first and foremost but having excess insulin makes it tougher to stay in shape and that is a big concern of mine.

    I'll find out in a week and a half.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CF10 View Post
    Yeah I would hope they did, but I worry that they didnt for some reason. Dont ask me why I just have a feeling they didnt because it is something I want to know and so far the docs havent done a great job of testing the things I want. Of course I care about health first and foremost but having excess insulin makes it tougher to stay in shape and that is a big concern of mine.

    I'll find out in a week and a half.
    Duh every hear of GERD. most hard gainers suffer from it
    TRust me when i comes to liver i know what I am talking about
    http://www.ironaddicts.com/forums/sh...ile+acids+gerd

    Bile acids are your problem.

    Your liver makes them, releases them, bugs in your gut convert them, the converted form is reabsorbed early in gut location, shuffled back to liver, taurine and glucose is added to the structures to buffer them, then its stored in gallbladder for release.

    You don't do the later steps. Your liver doesn't make taurine. Taurine and GABA, made in liver, regulated neurotransmitters active in gut lining. When they aren't made, the gut becomes overstimulated and prone to inflammation.

    When the acidic bile acids hit, the gut is primed for bad news


    IF you have a history of chronic stress, of drug or alcohol use that has impaired liver, if you have had insulin / blood sugar control issues directly associated, again, with liver lipid problems (and they, my friends, are tightly inter-related), if you have GERD or have had it recently, if you have used prescription medications, if you train hard and haven't had adequate rest or if you sleep hygiene is poor or you have poor sleep phasing, if you neglect your vegetables in diet or you have had recent gut inflammation or infection, if you have had recent major life changes (acute stress), such as job change, location change, marriage, death in the family, divorce, or have kids (particularly teens) or you suffer from mild depression...

    You probably have had suck out of glutathione and NAC and consequently, your folic acid and SAM-E balance is compromised
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    Quote Originally Posted by CF10 View Post
    Yeah I would hope they did, but I worry that they didnt for some reason. Dont ask me why I just have a feeling they didnt because it is something I want to know and so far the docs havent done a great job of testing the things I want. Of course I care about health first and foremost but having excess insulin makes it tougher to stay in shape and that is a big concern of mine.

    I'll find out in a week and a half.
    If it is excess insulin you can at least work it to your benefit. Bodybuilders have been using it for years. The problem is that after years of elevated insulin levels the chances are higher to develope insulin resistance.

    The real question is what is the cause.
    Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for life. Lao Tse 6th century BC
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973 View Post
    Duh every hear of GERD. most hard gainers suffer from it
    TRust me when i comes to liver i know what I am talking about
    http://www.ironaddicts.com/forums/sh...ile+acids+gerd

    Bile acids are your problem.

    Your liver makes them, releases them, bugs in your gut convert them, the converted form is reabsorbed early in gut location, shuffled back to liver, taurine and glucose is added to the structures to buffer them, then its stored in gallbladder for release.

    You don't do the later steps. Your liver doesn't make taurine. Taurine and GABA, made in liver, regulated neurotransmitters active in gut lining. When they aren't made, the gut becomes overstimulated and prone to inflammation.

    When the acidic bile acids hit, the gut is primed for bad news


    IF you have a history of chronic stress, of drug or alcohol use that has impaired liver, if you have had insulin / blood sugar control issues directly associated, again, with liver lipid problems (and they, my friends, are tightly inter-related), if you have GERD or have had it recently, if you have used prescription medications, if you train hard and haven't had adequate rest or if you sleep hygiene is poor or you have poor sleep phasing, if you neglect your vegetables in diet or you have had recent gut inflammation or infection, if you have had recent major life changes (acute stress), such as job change, location change, marriage, death in the family, divorce, or have kids (particularly teens) or you suffer from mild depression...

    You probably have had suck out of glutathione and NAC and consequently, your folic acid and SAM-E balance is compromised
    What is the correlation between GERD and hypoglycemia?
    Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for life. Lao Tse 6th century BC
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonny21 View Post
    If it is excess insulin you can at least work it to your benefit. Bodybuilders have been using it for years. The problem is that after years of elevated insulin levels the chances are higher to develope insulin resistance.

    The real question is what is the cause.
    THIS IS THE REASON!!

    Listen to you I worried about my health but i care how i look. YOu just sealed your doom right there !! Activation of CNS system in sympathetic vs parasympathetic mode is core root of your problem..

    IF you have a history of chronic stress, of drug or alcohol use that has impaired liver, if you have had insulin / blood sugar control issues directly associated, again, with liver lipid problems (and they, my friends, are tightly inter-related), if you have GERD or have had it recently, if you have used prescription medications, if you train hard and haven't had adequate rest or if you sleep hygiene is poor or you have poor sleep phasing, if you neglect your vegetables in diet or you have had recent gut inflammation or infection, if you have had recent major life changes (acute stress), such as job
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