Low Blood Glucose

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  1. CF10- There's a chance they could apply. You do sometimes see that blood sugar pattern in a hyperinsulinemic/insulin resistant pt, due to an "over-response" of insulin. But that certainly isn't the only explanation, I just don't know much about the other explanations. I'm sure someone else can shed light on other possibilities.


  2. Quote Originally Posted by CF10 View Post
    Now, I need help from you guys about what to say to the doc. The first doc I was seeing told me "You dont have diabetes there's nothing wrong there", and the doc I'm seeing now didnt mention anything about the glucose results. So what should I say? I dont wanna sound uninformed because I want this guy to respect my knowledge to a certain extent. Should I ask about hyperinsulinemia and/or insulin resistance? Do these terms apply in this case?
    It does not appear to be insulin resistance althought that can develop if it is hyperinsulinemia. Your postprandial numbers are lower than referance range which could indicative of hyperinsulinemia which will cause rebound hypoglycemia. Or the simple fact may be that your blood sugar runs lower than most and there is nothing wrong.

    Do you ever experience sign/symptoms of hypoglycemia is the question that needs to be answered.

    I would ask about rebound hypoglycemia and let him lead from there.
    Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for life. Lao Tse 6th century BC
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by jonny21 View Post
    It does not appear to be insulin resistance althought that can develop if it is hyperinsulinemia. Your postprandial numbers are lower than referance range which could indicative of hyperinsulinemia which will cause rebound hypoglycemia. Or the simple fact may be that your blood sugar runs lower than most and there is nothing wrong.

    Do you ever experience sign/symptoms of hypoglycemia is the question that needs to be answered.

    I would ask about rebound hypoglycemia and let him lead from there.
    Yeah I get dizzy when I stand up sometimes and I see red stars. Sometimes the stars are so bad my vision is completely redded out and I cant see for a second or two. But it's not something I ever thought was a problem until I saw these glucose results and started to put things together a bit. I will bring it up to the doctor this week.

  4. Quote Originally Posted by CF10 View Post
    Yeah I get dizzy when I stand up sometimes and I see red stars. Sometimes the stars are so bad my vision is completely redded out and I cant see for a second or two. But it's not something I ever thought was a problem until I saw these glucose results and started to put things together a bit. I will bring it up to the doctor this week.
    IIRC that is bad Adrenal fatige, probably among other possibilities.

  5. Quote Originally Posted by CF10 View Post
    Yeah I get dizzy when I stand up sometimes and I see red stars. Sometimes the stars are so bad my vision is completely redded out and I cant see for a second or two. But it's not something I ever thought was a problem until I saw these glucose results and started to put things together a bit. I will bring it up to the doctor this week.
    That sounds more like a BP (orthostatic hypotension) issue than a blood sugar issue.
    Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for life. Lao Tse 6th century BC
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by jonny21 View Post
    That sounds more like a BP (orthostatic hypotension) issue than a blood sugar issue.
    Expand on explanation, how to deal with it?

  7. Quote Originally Posted by jonny21 View Post
    That sounds more like a BP (orthostatic hypotension) issue than a blood sugar issue.
    I've never had a low BP reading. I think the lowest it ever was was 110/70. Not saying it's not a possibility though, and I'll ask the doc about that too, thanks.

    JanSz, I'm gonna do my best to get the doctor to let me do a 24 hr cortisol test. I'm concerned that he wont though because he said I dont have exhausted adrenals because my cortisol measured just above high-normal first thing in the AM, and my ACTH is middle range. He said if my adrenals were exhausted I would have low cortisol and higher ACTH (assuming no pituitary problems).

  8. Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    Expand on explanation, how to deal with it?
    Need to find the cause before you can deal with it.

    http://www.merck.com/mmhe/sec03/ch023/ch023c.html

    http://www.medterms.com/script/main/...rticlekey=4672
    Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for life. Lao Tse 6th century BC

  9. Quote Originally Posted by jonny21 View Post
    Good links. That explains why my BP readings arent abnormal, since it appears to just be a very temporary thing. I need to print all this stuff, lol. You guys are a great help.

  10. Quote Originally Posted by jonny21 View Post
    Thank you.
    Specially the MerckManual lists number of reasons for Orthostatic Hypotension.

    Reading thru CF10's posts have you developed any hyphotesis?

    Many Orthostatic Hypotension problems are related mostly to elderly, out od shape people. CF10 looks to me as young very well conditioned man, wery few of these problems will apply to him.

  11. It looks like some other issues are pointing toward adrenal fatigue according to CF10. I may be mistaken, but I thought orthostatic hypotension was associated with adrenal fatigue also.

  12. Quote Originally Posted by RPHMark View Post
    It looks like some other issues are pointing toward adrenal fatigue according to CF10. I may be mistaken, but I thought orthostatic hypotension was associated with adrenal fatigue also.
    It is associated with a few conditions, adrenal insufficiency being one. But as posted, cortisol levels were slightly elevated not low.

    I would get my insulin & c-peptide levels checked and go from there.

    Quote Originally Posted by CF10 View Post
    ...my cortisol was just above normal range (I know one time serum cortisol measurements dont tell the whole story but I dont know if he will agree), and my ACTH was smack in the middle of normal...
    Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for life. Lao Tse 6th century BC

  13. Quote Originally Posted by jonny21 View Post
    It is associated with a few conditions, adrenal insufficiency being one. But as posted, cortisol levels were slightly elevated not low.

    I would get my insulin & c-peptide levels checked and go from there.
    I am learning,
    please explain what tests I would order from Quest Diagnostics when I want to check my c-peptide levels.

    ============================== ==============
    http://cas2.questdiagnostics.com/scr...SearchString2=

    C-Peptide - (372X)
    C-Peptide Response to Glucose (9 Timed Samples) - (15448X)
    C-Peptide Response to Glucose, 2 Specimen - (15843X)
    C-Peptide Response to Glucose, 3 Specimen - (15844X)
    C-Peptide Response to Glucose, 4 Specimen - (15845X)
    C-Peptide Response to Glucose, 5 Specimen - (31345X)
    C-Peptide Response to Glucose, 6 Specimen - (15846X)
    C-Peptide Response to Glucose, 7 Specimen - (15847X)
    C-Peptide Response to Glucose, 8 Specimen - (15848X)
    C-Peptide Stimulation by Glucagon (14747X) - (2287N)
    C-Peptide, 24-Hour Urine (4643X) - (8573N)
    C-Peptide, 2nd Void Urine - (11182X)
    ============================== ================

    Page #50 EndoManual_3rdEd_2004
    http://www.questdiagnostics.com/hcp/...3rdEd_2004.pdf

    C-Peptide, Serum or Urine

    Useful for distinguishing
    1) insulin-secreting tumors
    2) type 1 from type 2 diabetes (type 2 is associated with abundant C-peptide secretion)
    ============================== =================

  14. Quote Originally Posted by RPHMark View Post
    Obivously, cost is an issue with the strips, but here is what we often have people do. It's not critical you follow this exact regimen, just record what time you test, how long after a meal it was, and what the meal consisted of.
    Day one- test upon rising and 1 to 2 hours after breakfast
    Day two- test 1 to 2 hours after lunch and just before supper
    Day three- test 1 to 2 hours after supper and just before bed
    repeat that pattern a few times and you should have a decent feel for how your blood sugar is throughout the day over a period 10 days or so. Assuming all of the meals are "typical" for your diet t this will give you quite a bit of information to work with. If you happen to wake up in the middle of the night and are really ambitious test once or twice between 2 and 5 AM (some people have a spike around then).
    Since 6/20/07, for over a month (48 days) I have been using supplements that I tought the LEF recomends for lowering glucose;
    MEGA SILYMARIN 900 MG 100 CAPS Item#00702
    ENHANCED CINNULIN PF W/GLUCOSE90 CAPS Item# 00967
    Lets see how I do:


    ;============================= ============================== =====================
    I am using OneTouch Ultra blood Glucose meter, RTR40F7FT
    Strips are OneTouch UltraSmart InDuo, Code 16, Expiration Date 10/2005, control range (94-128)mg/dL
    ;============================= ============================== =====================
    8/6/2007
    8:30AM Glucose 107 get out of bed
    9:20AM Breakfast 9:20AM end of breakfast
    1/2 lb Birds Eye Italian blend frozen vegetable
    Cauliflower, broccoli, peppers, zucchini, carrots, peas
    1piece (1oz), Crunchy breaded fish fillets, 0 transfat
    10oz coffee, 2oz 2% milk in it, no sugar,
    16 oz EarlGrey tea, no sugar
    I do not drink coffee or tea at once, I do that sipping little bit throughout the day.
    11:20AM glucose=107 /2 hours after brekfast

    3:PM 3-4PM cranbery, milk chocolate, indian-mix, keep drinkibg coffee 2nd 10oz cup, and tea second 16oz glass
    4:50PM glucose=97
    8:30PM two slices of cake, grapes and cherries at the dance club
    9:45PM glucose=113
    10:00PM Two kaiser rolls, each 4 slices of bacon, lots of onions, tea
    8/7/2007
    4:30AM glucose=125
    8:15AM glucose=107
    9:30AM Two envelopes of (Strum's organic instant oatmeal, apple cinnamon), 2 cups of whole milk, 10oz coffe no sugar
    11:45AM glucose=121
    .
    .

  15. Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    I am learning,
    please explain what tests I would order from Quest Diagnostics when I want to check my c-peptide levels.
    Considering that it would be ideal to have 3 or more blood draws, C-Peptide Response to Glucose, 3 Specimen - (15844X), would be the way to go. I guess you could go to walmart and purchase glucose tabs and then go to Quest.
    Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for life. Lao Tse 6th century BC

  16. Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    Since 6/20/07, for over a month (48 days) I have been using supplements that I tought the LEF recomends for lowering glucose;
    MEGA SILYMARIN 900 MG 100 CAPS Item#00702
    ENHANCED CINNULIN PF W/GLUCOSE90 CAPS Item# 00967
    Lets see how I do:


    ;============================= ============================== =====================
    I am using OneTouch Ultra blood Glucose meter, RTR40F7FT
    Strips are OneTouch UltraSmart InDuo, Code 16, Expiration Date 10/2005, control range (94-128)mg/dL
    ;============================= ============================== =====================
    8/6/2007
    8:30AM Glucose 107 get out of bed
    9:20AM Breakfast 9:20AM end of breakfast
    1/2 lb Birds Eye Italian blend frozen vegetable
    Cauliflower, broccoli, peppers, zucchini, carrots, peas
    1piece (1oz), Crunchy breaded fish fillets, 0 transfat
    10oz coffee, 2oz 2% milk in it, no sugar,
    16 oz EarlGrey tea, no sugar
    I do not drink coffee or tea at once, I do that sipping little bit throughout the day.
    11:20AM glucose=107 /2 hours after brekfast

    3:PM 3-4PM cranbery, milk chocolate, indian-mix, keep drinkibg coffee 2nd 10oz cup, and tea second 16oz glass
    4:50PM glucose=97
    8:30PM two slices of cake, grapes and cherries at the dance club
    9:45PM glucose=113
    10:00PM Two kaiser rolls, each 4 slices of bacon, lots of onions, tea
    8/7/2007
    4:30AM glucose=125
    8:15AM glucose=107
    9:30AM Two envelopes of (Strum's organic instant oatmeal, apple cinnamon), 2 cups of whole milk, 10oz coffe no sugar
    11:45AM glucose=121
    .
    .
    Whoa fish for breakfast!?! My stomach would hate me ...and so would the toilet!

  17. I'd be leaning towards the adrenal fatigue camp:

    http://www.merck.com/mmpe/sec12/ch153/ch153b.html

  18. Another area you may want to look into is neurotransmitter depletion. This is something I am investigating myself after I had a urinalysis done and tested very low for neurotransmitters.

    http://www.drkaslow.com/html/neurotr...repletion.html

  19. JanSz,
    Considering some of the meals, your postprandial BS are not that high, just on the higher end of normal (which is in line with your HA1C). Just keep an eye on it and try to stick with higer fiber, low GI carbs. You might try your own "glucose challange" at home. It is admittedly not a controlled test, but you will get some idea of how your insulin response is. Just check your sugar at 1, 1 1/2, and 2 hours after a high sugar snack (soft drink plus something plenty sugary to eat will due, make it count!). If your sugars still stay in that 120 range then really no worries. If they go toward 140 or higher and stay there a while then there could be some issue.

  20. Quote Originally Posted by RPHMark View Post
    JanSz,
    Considering some of the meals, your postprandial BS are not that high, just on the higher end of normal (which is in line with your HA1C). Just keep an eye on it and try to stick with higer fiber, low GI carbs. You might try your own "glucose challange" at home. It is admittedly not a controlled test, but you will get some idea of how your insulin response is. Just check your sugar at 1, 1 1/2, and 2 hours after a high sugar snack (soft drink plus something plenty sugary to eat will due, make it count!). If your sugars still stay in that 120 range then really no worries. If they go toward 140 or higher and stay there a while then there could be some issue.
    I will do just that and report back.

    Have good excuse to eat sweets.

  21. Quote Originally Posted by RPHMark View Post
    JanSz,
    Considering some of the meals, your postprandial BS are not that high, just on the higher end of normal (which is in line with your HA1C). Just keep an eye on it and try to stick with higer fiber, low GI carbs. You might try your own "glucose challange" at home. It is admittedly not a controlled test, but you will get some idea of how your insulin response is. Just check your sugar at 1, 1 1/2, and 2 hours after a high sugar snack (soft drink plus something plenty sugary to eat will due, make it count!). If your sugars still stay in that 120 range then really no worries. If they go toward 140 or higher and stay there a while then there could be some issue.
    Thanks RPHMark

    what do you make of this.

    I guess I am ok?? What do you say??

    Should I drop my glucose lowering supplements that I recently started, I think they do not make much if any difference.
    I am taking
    MEGA SILYMARIN 900 MG 100 CAPS Item#00702
    ENHANCED CINNULIN PF W/GLUCOSE90 CAPS Item# 00967
    ----------------------------------------------------------


    wednesday August 8/2007
    I forgot to measure glucose when I got out off bed, yesterday and usually it is=107
    8:10AM two raw eggs beaten with four tablespoons of sugar, coffe+milk no sugar
    About 20 minutes latter I felt heavy and under pressure, lasted about 10 minutes.
    9:10AM glucose=91
    9:40AM glucose=102
    10:10AM glucose=105

  22. Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    wednesday August 8/2007
    I forgot to measure glucose when I got out off bed, yesterday and usually it is=107
    8:10AM two raw eggs beaten with four tablespoons of sugar, coffe+milk no sugar
    About 20 minutes latter I felt heavy and under pressure, lasted about 10 minutes.
    9:10AM glucose=91
    9:40AM glucose=102
    10:10AM glucose=105
    You really should stick with glucose only meals so the results are not skewed by alterations to the glycemic response from other macronutrients. Glucose tablets are available at most if not all pharmacies as well as walmart and other supermarkets.

    BTW, your glucose levels are excellent.
    Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for life. Lao Tse 6th century BC

  23. Quote Originally Posted by jonny21 View Post
    You really should stick with glucose only meals so the results are not skewed by alterations to the glycemic response from other macronutrients. Glucose tablets are available at most if not all pharmacies as well as walmart and other supermarkets.

    BTW, your glucose levels are excellent.
    If my glucose levels are excellent on four tablespoons of sugar, then possibly it is all I need to know.

    Please give me high or low number for each time I tested so I have some boundary, numbers that would make you tell me that I am on the egde of acceptable range.
    Say when I think of FreeT range is (160-250), when I am below, I incease T dose, when I am above, I decrease T dose.

    1hour-glucose=XXX
    1 1/2 hour-glucose=YYY
    2 hour-glucose=ZZZ



    What do you say about those two supplements, I probably shoud drop them, hmm?

  24. CF10 -
    your symptoms sound almost identical to what i've been experiencing.

    i'm going in for a blood glucose test tomorrow w/my doctor.

    i used my friends glucose meter three months ago to see what my blood sugar is at and it actually dropped to 51 just 1hr after eating a huge bowl of frosted mini wheats.

    i figured it might be reactive hypoglycimia so i changed my diet very significantly. - cut high glycemic carbs, cut almost all sugars except some fruit and milk, and eat low carbohydrate in general.
    since this change i have experienced increasing diabetic like symptoms - frequent urination, headaches, trouble concentrating, poor sleep.

    i'll let you know what my doc says.

  25. Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    If my glucose levels are excellent on four tablespoons of sugar, then possibly it is all I need to know.
    Good point.

    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    Please give me high or low number for each time I tested so I have some boundary, numbers that would make you tell me that I am on the egde of acceptable range.
    Say when I think of FreeT range is (160-250), when I am below, I incease T dose, when I am above, I decrease T dose.

    1hour-glucose=XXX
    1 1/2 hour-glucose=YYY
    2 hour-glucose=ZZZ
    1/2hr: <200mg/dl
    1hr: <180-200mg/dl (depends on lab
    2hr: <140mg/dl
    3hr: 60-100mg/dl

    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    What do you say about those two supplements, I probably shoud drop them, hmm?
    I have no knowledge of your past medical history and would not be qualified to make that determination.
    Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for life. Lao Tse 6th century BC

  26. Quote Originally Posted by Hank Vangut View Post
    CF10 -
    your symptoms sound almost identical to what i've been experiencing.

    i'm going in for a blood glucose test tomorrow w/my doctor.

    i used my friends glucose meter three months ago to see what my blood sugar is at and it actually dropped to 51 just 1hr after eating a huge bowl of frosted mini wheats.

    i figured it might be reactive hypoglycimia so i changed my diet very significantly. - cut high glycemic carbs, cut almost all sugars except some fruit and milk, and eat low carbohydrate in general.
    since this change i have experienced increasing diabetic like symptoms - frequent urination, headaches, trouble concentrating, poor sleep.

    i'll let you know what my doc says.
    Yes please get back to me and let me know what happens. I too have frequent urination. I do drink a lot of fluids though so maybe it's not a problem, I hope.

  27. JanSz,
    No real reason to quit the supplements unless you just want to experiment. Both of them offer health benefits even if your sugars stay where they are. Like I said, for the most part those BS look pretty good. The eggs could really blunt the effect of the sugar you had with them though. The only thing you might still want to try is the "mini-glucose" challenge I talked about. It's ideal for it to be all glucose (I think 75g) like the lab test, but not entirely necesscary. Just try to avoid high fat or protein in the "challenge" as they can blunt the spike some. If your post-prandial readings stay 130 and below then no worries. If they get to 140 and above and stay there then there is some concern. I disagree a bit with jonny21 on this, as many experts consider ANY reading over 160 at any time diagnostic for pre-diabetes/diabetes.

  28. Quote Originally Posted by RPHMark View Post
    ...If they get to 140 and above and stay there then there is some concern. I disagree a bit with jonny21 on this, as many experts consider ANY reading over 160 at any time diagnostic for pre-diabetes/diabetes.
    Those are the reference ranges per Mosby's. I am not sure but they probably allow for longer second-phase insulin secretion. The endocrinologist that I frequently talk with does say that between first & second-phase insulin secretion most healthy people's glucose levels should not exceed 140mg/dl regardless of the glucose load.
    Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for life. Lao Tse 6th century BC

  29. Quote Originally Posted by RPHMark View Post
    JanSz,
    No real reason to quit the supplements unless you just want to experiment. Both of them offer health benefits even if your sugars stay where they are. Like I said, for the most part those BS look pretty good. The eggs could really blunt the effect of the sugar you had with them though. The only thing you might still want to try is the "mini-glucose" challenge I talked about. It's ideal for it to be all glucose (I think 75g) like the lab test, but not entirely necesscary. Just try to avoid high fat or protein in the "challenge" as they can blunt the spike some. If your post-prandial readings stay 130 and below then no worries. If they get to 140 and above and stay there then there is some concern. I disagree a bit with jonny21 on this, as many experts consider ANY reading over 160 at any time diagnostic for pre-diabetes/diabetes.
    Thank you RPHMark and jonny21

    you guys put my glucose/A1c worries to bed.

    now if I could only figure out how to break the musicality barrier in my West Coast Swing (WCS) hobby, I will be a happy camper.

  30. Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    Thank you RPHMark and jonny21

    you guys put my glucose/A1c worries to bed.

    now if I could only figure out how to break the musicality barrier in my West Coast Swing (WCS) hobby, I will be a happy camper.
    One more question.

    Is Gymnema Sylwestre worth anything.

    I am giong to drop the two LEF supplements that I already got at home.
    (They are recomended by LEF when controling high glucose, and so far did not made any changes).

    I just got three bottles of NowFoods Gymnema Sylwestre because somebody here mentioned it and when googled other people speak favorably about it.

    LEF do not sell and even do not discuss Gymnema Sylwestre,
    hence my dillema.
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