Could use some help with E2 result

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    Could use some help with E2 result


    I just received the result from my LEF/LabCorp standard E2 blood test. It was 48 pg/mL (0-53 for males).

    I am not on TRT. I'm 55, 5'10", 170#. I'm quite fit, go to the gym every day, am moderately muscular, and have a flat tummy. Supplements include 16 mg of zinc per day. All the plumbing still works pretty well, but libido isn't all I would hope for. In the past I took a series of saliva tests that were consistent in showing quite high T levels (that would be free T), but also high E2 levels.

    I believe the high E2 (assuming 48 is higher than ideal) is a result of taking a high dose of Diltiazem, a calcium channel blocker that works very well on my blood pressure. Diltiazem is a moderate inhibitor of 3A4 and other CYP's, and has a reputation of causing E levels to go up, I would guess by inhibiting their metabolism, in rare cases even causing gyno.

    I understand that everyone would want to know current T and SHBG levels, but I only did E2 - I have to pay in full for whatever testing I do, and my pockets aren't deep. So if it's possible, I'd like to settle on a reasonable course of action to see if a lower E2 level might bring some improvement and make me a horny teenager again. :-)

    I have some 1/4 mg Arimidex tablets that I got several years ago from a Chinese gentleman named Josh, but never used. I though I would begin taking that, and then test E2 again. But take how much, and for how long?

    How about - 1/16 mg dose, taken every other day, which would be roughly 1/4 mg per week. And then test again after maybe three weeks. But I have no idea how long it takes to reach a stable E2 state with Arimidex.

    My plan would be to get E2 down to the low 20's, hoping that would get the job done. Does 1/4 mg per week sound like a conservative dose for someone not on TRT, at least a dose not likely to take E2 too low?

    Any comments would be appreciated.


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    Please don't self medicate.........especially when it comes to your hormones. Hormones are very sensitive and changing one will always change something else in your system. JMHO

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    Rather than taking more drugs to lower your E2 why not change the BP med ? There are 5 or 6 other pathways to lower BP than calcium channel blockers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by peabody View Post
    I just received the result from my LEF/LabCorp standard E2 blood test. It was 48 pg/mL (0-53 for males).

    I am not on TRT. I'm 55, 5'10", 170#. I'm quite fit, go to the gym every day, am moderately muscular, and have a flat tummy. Supplements include 16 mg of zinc per day. All the plumbing still works pretty well, but libido isn't all I would hope for. In the past I took a series of saliva tests that were consistent in showing quite high T levels (that would be free T), but also high E2 levels.

    I believe the high E2 (assuming 48 is higher than ideal) is a result of taking a high dose of Diltiazem, a calcium channel blocker that works very well on my blood pressure. Diltiazem is a moderate inhibitor of 3A4 and other CYP's, and has a reputation of causing E levels to go up, I would guess by inhibiting their metabolism, in rare cases even causing gyno.

    I understand that everyone would want to know current T and SHBG levels, but I only did E2 - I have to pay in full for whatever testing I do, and my pockets aren't deep. So if it's possible, I'd like to settle on a reasonable course of action to see if a lower E2 level might bring some improvement and make me a horny teenager again. :-)

    I have some 1/4 mg Arimidex tablets that I got several years ago from a Chinese gentleman named Josh, but never used. I though I would begin taking that, and then test E2 again. But take how much, and for how long?

    How about - 1/16 mg dose, taken every other day, which would be roughly 1/4 mg per week. And then test again after maybe three weeks. But I have no idea how long it takes to reach a stable E2 state with Arimidex.

    My plan would be to get E2 down to the low 20's, hoping that would get the job done. Does 1/4 mg per week sound like a conservative dose for someone not on TRT, at least a dose not likely to take E2 too low?

    Any comments would be appreciated.
    I suggest replacing some workouts in gym with nightly shift at Dunkin Donuts store as a fully hand-made baker.
    Make sure that it is high traffic store that uses at least 4x 50# of yeast per night.
    This should help with financial and physical aspects.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    I suggest replacing some workouts in gym with nightly shift at Dunkin Donuts store as a fully hand-made baker.
    Make sure that it is high traffic store that uses at least 4x 50# of yeast per night.
    This should help with financial and physical aspects.
    Jansz is a real comedian today..
    33 bucks for e2 testing is just going bust the bank LOL


    Welcome, Health Enthusiast!
    Estradiol: Blood Tests

    Date with a chick
    5 bucks for gas
    25 bucks for a movie and popcorn
    30 bucks dinner
    60 buck total and then getting no play

    getting a hardon waking up in the morning and staring at Hot chick PRICELESS

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    Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973 View Post
    Jansz is a real comedian today..
    33 bucks for e2 testing is just going bust the bank LOL


    Welcome, Health Enthusiast!
    Estradiol: Blood Tests
    HAN
    E2 (from LabCorp bought from LEF) is just, not even good start.
    He (we all) need extensive (good quality) blood tests at least once in a while.

    When one have a problems and
    1. is guessing that his E2 is high
    then
    2. trying to use pills that he got from guy named Josh

    what chances does he have at helping himself.

    It is much better then to eat cookies, donuts and ice cream.
    He dies quick and happy.
    His family at least may sue the stores for letting him eat all this harmfull food.

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    Jansz
    Have you got any feed back at all of what the new ultrasensative estrodial testing results actually means <29. More and more its popping up when guys go get tested for E2, but they do not know what the results really reflect and what is optimal range Is it just a modified version of the standard 10-54 range broken down to a 0-29 range. And if you have a result of <? could that indicate that it could be any number from 0-till that number. So how can it be more accurate because there is not a specific number but could be numerous ones

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    Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973 View Post
    Jansz
    Have you got any feed back at all of what the new ultrasensative estrodial testing results actually means <29. More and more its popping up when guys go get tested for E2, but they do not know what the results really reflect and what is optimal range Is it just a modified version of the standard 10-54 range broken down to a 0-29 range. And if you have a result of <? could that indicate that it could be any number from 0-till that number. So how can it be more accurate because there is not a specific number but could be numerous ones
    I do not talk to anybody from Nichols Institute.
    Wish I could.
    My take:
    That lattest E2 test, the one you have got, that have a range
    Males (Adult): < or = 29 pg/mL

    when your result show (I think, working from memory)

    E2 <2 pg/mL

    that mean
    the test accuracy is about 2 pg/mL
    they did not detected E2 in your blood
    you could have had yor E2=1.9999 pg/mL

    nothing to write home about it.
    ----------------------------------------------------------
    My current guess is that T & E2 we want a lot but no more than upper range.
    For E2 better test may be

    Estradiol, Free, LC/MS/MS (36169X)

    Estradiol, Free pg/mL
    Males (Adult): < or = 0.45 pg/mL

    Estradiol, % Free %
    Males (Adult): 1.25-1.85 %

    Quest Diagnostics: Test Menu
    This test also comes with E2
    Estradiol pg/mL
    Males (Adult): < or = 29 pg/mL
    ============================== =========================
    I have updated my list to reflect the above:
    Jan's BloodTest April13/2007

    note the
    Dihydrotestosterone, Free, Serum (36168X)

    DIHYDROTESTOSTERONE, FREE (DHT, Free pg/mL ADULT MALES: 1.00-6.20 )

    where do we want this FreeDHT ????????

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    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    I do not talk to anybody from Nichols Institute.
    Wish I could.
    My take:
    That lattest E2 test, the one you have got, that have a range
    Males (Adult): < or = 29 pg/mL

    when your result show (I think, working from memory)

    E2 <2 pg/mL

    that mean
    the test accuracy is about 2 pg/mL
    they did not detected E2 in your blood
    you could have had yor E2=1.9999 pg/mL

    nothing to write home about it.
    So basically my e2 was driven into the ground ..
    probably causing elevation in the lp(a) and all the similar side effects from low estrogen
    since niacin and estrodial are used to treat it only makes sense.

    So my dr was right it was low and that I should have tapered off the armidex rather then cold turkey which caused a radical rebound to e2 of 73 and then tested 2 weeks later. Do you think over time my body will restabilize on its own or may need a little help..I'm seeing my dr and getting standard e2 test not the ultrasenatiative one so it will give me a suitable range which is consistant with the previous e2 tests and have him monitor it every 2 weeks till it gets stable. Since being on stable test that is also making a huge difference in e2 concentration since there are no peaks and valleys due to differnt blends of testosterone that was in the sustenon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973 View Post
    So basically my e2 was driven into the ground ..
    probably causing elevation in the lp(a) and all the similar side effects from low estrogen
    since niacin and estrodial are used to treat it only makes sense.

    So my dr was right it was low and that I should have tapered off the armidex rather then cold turkey which caused a radical rebound to e2 of 73 and then tested 2 weeks later. Do you think over time my body will restabilize on its own or may need a little help..I'm seeing my dr and getting standard e2 test not the ultrasenatiative one so it will give me a suitable range which is consistant with the previous e2 tests and have him monitor it every 2 weeks till it gets stable. Since being on stable test that is also making a huge difference in e2 concentration since there are no peaks and valleys due to differnt blends of testosterone that was in the sustenon.
    You are quick with your response.
    I have edited my previous post.

    Yes you have driven your E2 to the ground.

    No, you do not know about rebound, you had different test done, different accuracy, all other uncertainties.

    Note that Plymouth is saying that E2 cannot be driven to the ground just by using Arimidex.

    If he is right

    what is that is actually happening what else are you doing?

    You should not waste your money on testing anything after only 2 weeks change in your routine.

    You already have enough problems, if possible use testosterone that is common around here, cypionate or enanthate insteads of sustenon.
    ============================== ==========================
    EDITED

    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/929376-post21.html
    Dr Johns's response:

    Not sure where that idea came from. It is easy in many individuals to drive E to dangeoroudly low levels.

    Also, there is no basis for calling it "self-limiting".

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    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    You are quick with your response.
    I have edited my previous post.

    Yes you have driven your E2 to the ground.

    No, you do not know about rebound, you had different test done, different accuracy, all other uncertainties.

    Note that Plymouth is saying that E2 cannot be driven to the ground just by using Arimidex.

    If he is right

    what is that is actually happening what else are you doing?

    You should not waste your money on testing anything after only 2 weeks change in your routine.

    You already have enough problems, if possible use testosterone that is common around here, cypionate or enanthate insteads of sustenon.
    ============================== ==========================
    EDITED

    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/929376-post21.html
    Dr Johns's response:

    Not sure where that idea came from. It is easy in many individuals to drive E to dangeoroudly low levels.

    Also, there is no basis for calling it "self-limiting".
    WEll obviously I proved it possible to drive it into the ground with armidex that was the only estrogen inhibiting factor I was taking..other then supporting methyation process and calcium d glucurate, reservatrol 100 mgs (these do not effect e2 at all). And if i was taking DIM it would not affect e2 at all, but only estrone metabolism

    So in the future what test would I look for e2
    <29 reference or standard 10-54?

    Currently on
    50 mgs cyp every 3 days
    100 mgs preg creame daily - due to low cholesterol, low thyroid
    25 mgs DHEA x2 -verified by testing
    1/2 grain armour and 12.5 mcgs t-3 twice a day - verifed by testing
    5 mgs cortef x 4 -
    HCG waiting to stabilize e2 before starting and e metabolism

    For elevated lp(a)
    500 mgs niacin 2 times a day - should also raise homocystein levels
    1000 mgs vitamin C x 3
    1500 mgs lysine x2
    rasiing e2 should lower this as well..estrodial lowers lp(a)

    low homocysteine
    200 mgs sam-e BID
    5,000 mgs methycoblalon sublingual
    5,000 mgs folinic acid
    500 mgs TMG
    600 mgs nac
    400 mgs magnesium

    Estrogen support
    100 mgs reservatrol
    500 mgs calcium d glucurate BID - due to bad intestinal flora
    healthy trinity probiotics bfore bed time
    DIM will commense after urine test if verified
    fish oils 1 tsp BID
    60 mgs zinc a day with 2 mgs copper
    50 mgs iodoral daily
    100mgs prge creame - may be increasing progesterone helping to offset e2..

  12. zkt
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    I think the terms self limiting or suicide proof, or whatever it is, as applied to arimidex in a misnomer. As I unferstand its action the dose response curve is nonlinear. That is doubling the dose dorsnt double the AI effect and conversely. That not to say you cant take enought to tank your e2 levels.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973 View Post
    WEll obviously I proved it possible to drive it into the ground with armidex that was the only estrogen inhibiting factor I was taking..other then supporting methyation process and calcium d glucurate, reservatrol 100 mgs (these do not effect e2 at all). And if i was taking DIM it would not affect e2 at all, but only estrone metabolism

    So in the future what test would I look for e2
    <29 reference or standard 10-54?
    Currently on
    50 mgs cyp every 3 days
    100 mgs preg creame daily - due to low cholesterol, low thyroid
    25 mgs DHEA x2 -verified by testing
    1/2 grain armour and 12.5 mcgs t-3 twice a day - verifed by testing
    5 mgs cortef x 4 -
    HCG waiting to stabilize e2 before starting and e metabolism

    For elevated lp(a)
    500 mgs niacin 2 times a day - should also raise homocystein levels
    1000 mgs vitamin C x 3
    1500 mgs lysine x2
    rasiing e2 should lower this as well..estrodial lowers lp(a)

    low homocysteine
    200 mgs sam-e BID
    5,000 mgs methycoblalon sublingual
    5,000 mgs folinic acid
    500 mgs TMG
    600 mgs nac
    400 mgs magnesium

    Estrogen support
    100 mgs reservatrol
    500 mgs calcium d glucurate BID - due to bad intestinal flora
    healthy trinity probiotics bfore bed time
    DIM will commense after urine test if verified
    fish oils 1 tsp BID
    60 mgs zinc a day with 2 mgs copper
    50 mgs iodoral daily
    100mgs prge creame - may be increasing progesterone helping to offset e2..
    Preference #1
    Any of the two but consistently the same test from one blood test to the next

    Preference #2
    the <29 reference test is new and more accurate (I hope)

    Preference #3
    not more often than 6 weeks after change in routine

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    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    Preference #1
    Any of the two but consistently the same test from one blood test to the next

    Preference #2
    the <29 reference test is new and more accurate (I hope)

    Preference #3
    not more often than 6 weeks after change in routine
    If it is ain't broke don't fix it !!
    with my e2 rising that fast 6 weeks with symptoms I was having I would have blown my head off. My body is highly sensitive to hormone flucatations expecially e2. my pretest range before all this crap started where shbg 17 and e2 20. Again it was not untill I stopped fish oils and fish consumpton that my shbg went on high end to 37..To balance of EFA shoudl have been only 2-3 months not 8 months drs left me hanging because I did not have insurance and the test and appointment was 600 bucks !!

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    Quote Originally Posted by zkt View Post
    Rather than taking more drugs to lower your E2 why not change the BP med ? There are 5 or 6 other pathways to lower BP than calcium channel blockers.
    Thanks very much for your response. It's a fair question.

    I am also taking a small dose of thiazide diuretic, but don't want to take more. ACE inhibitors and Angiotensin Receptor Blockers have virtually no effect on my BP. Beta blockers and centrally-acting meds leave me feeling like ****. The CCB works really well, with no sides other than the estrogen increase (if I'm even right about that). That's why. I've been down this road with doctors, and they've concluded I should stay on the CCB.

    Having gone through the other responses to my post, I see now that I shouldn't have posted here. I apologize to you guys for taking up your time, and won't do it again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by peabody View Post
    Thanks very much for your response. It's a fair question.

    I am also taking a small dose of thiazide diuretic, but don't want to take more. ACE inhibitors and Angiotensin Receptor Blockers have virtually no effect on my BP. Beta blockers and centrally-acting meds leave me feeling like ****. The CCB works really well, with no sides other than the estrogen increase (if I'm even right about that). That's why. I've been down this road with doctors, and they've concluded I should stay on the CCB.

    Having gone through the other responses to my post, I see now that I shouldn't have posted here. I apologize to you guys for taking up your time, and won't do it again.
    All we are saying is that taking one drug to counter act another drug would be taking 2 step backwards when there are much more easier ways to handle high blood pressure through nutritional modifications and life style adjusments, change in medications . What about catapress to lower blood pressure?

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    Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973 View Post
    If it is ain't broke don't fix it !!
    with my e2 rising that fast 6 weeks with symptoms I was having I would have blown my head off. My body is highly sensitive to hormone flucatations expecially e2. my pretest range before all this crap started where shbg 17 and e2 20. Again it was not untill I stopped fish oils and fish consumpton that my shbg went on high end to 37..To balance of EFA shoudl have been only 2-3 months not 8 months drs left me hanging because I did not have insurance and the test and appointment was 600 bucks !!
    fluctuation of SHBG(17-37)

    this must indicate smething

    definitely roller coaster.


    --------------------------------------------------------
    Changes in serum levels of SHBG, endogenous ligand...[Contraception. 1992] - PubMed Result

    For those with low SHBG

    Quote: In all cases, SHBG and L-Ng levels increased in a close parallel manner several-fold above basal levels during treatment, reaching a maximum around two days after the last EE2 pill.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    You are quick with your response.
    I have edited my previous post.

    Yes you have driven your E2 to the ground.

    No, you do not know about rebound, you had different test done, different accuracy, all other uncertainties.

    Note that Plymouth is saying that E2 cannot be driven to the ground just by using Arimidex.

    If he is right

    what is that is actually happening what else are you doing?

    You should not waste your money on testing anything after only 2 weeks change in your routine.

    You already have enough problems, if possible use testosterone that is common around here, cypionate or enanthate insteads of sustenon.
    ============================== ==========================
    EDITED

    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/929376-post21.html
    Dr Johns's response:

    Not sure where that idea came from. It is easy in many individuals to drive E to dangeoroudly low levels.

    Also, there is no basis for calling it "self-limiting".
    Let me re-phrase that.

    Arimidex is not self limiting.

    But it only works to a point.

    Someone with high aromatase action will need stronger AI, not more arimidex. I have seen plenty jump from 1 to 2mg per week yet E2 barely moves.

    More arimidex not answer, this is where "self limiting" confusion begins.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    I do not talk to anybody from Nichols Institute.
    Wish I could.
    My take:
    That lattest E2 test, the one you have got, that have a range
    Males (Adult): < or = 29 pg/mL

    when your result show (I think, working from memory)

    E2 <2 pg/mL

    that mean
    the test accuracy is about 2 pg/mL
    they did not detected E2 in your blood
    you could have had yor E2=1.9999 pg/mL

    nothing to write home about it.
    ----------------------------------------------------------
    My current guess is that T & E2 we want a lot but no more than upper range.
    For E2 better test may be

    Estradiol, Free, LC/MS/MS (36169X)

    Estradiol, Free pg/mL
    Males (Adult): < or = 0.45 pg/mL

    Estradiol, % Free %
    Males (Adult): 1.25-1.85 %

    Quest Diagnostics: Test Menu
    This test also comes with E2
    Estradiol pg/mL
    Males (Adult): < or = 29 pg/mL
    ============================== =========================
    I have updated my list to reflect the above:
    Jan's BloodTest April13/2007

    note the
    Dihydrotestosterone, Free, Serum (36168X)

    DIHYDROTESTOSTERONE, FREE (DHT, Free pg/mL ADULT MALES: 1.00-6.20 )

    where do we want this FreeDHT ????????
    Very true. Good post.

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