Sub q testosterone

[Headdoc]

here's a small study supporting the equivalency of Sub q to IM testosterone.

Al-Futaisi AM, Al-Zakwani IS, Almahrezi AM, Morris D. Subcutaneous administration of testosterone. A pilot study report. Saudi Med J. 2006;27(12):1843-6.

ABSTRACT

OBJECTIVE: To investigate the effect of low doses of subcutaneous testosterone in hypogonadal men since the intramuscular route, which is the most widely used form of testosterone replacement therapy, is inconvenient to many patients. METHODS: All men with primary and secondary hypogonadism attending the reproductive endocrine clinic at Royal Victoria Hospital, Monteral, Quebec, Canada, were invited to participate in the study. Subjects were enrolled from January 2002 till December 2002. Patients were asked to self-administer weekly low doses of testosterone enanthate using 0.5 ml insulin syringe. RESULTS: A total of 22 patients were enrolled in the study. The mean trough was 14.48 +/- 3.14 nmol/L and peak total testosterone was 21.65 +/- 7.32 nmol/L. For the free testosterone the average trough was 59.94 +/- 20.60 pmol/L and the peak was 85.17 +/- 32.88 pmol/L. All of the patients delivered testosterone with ease and no local reactions were reported. CONCLUSION: Therapy with weekly subcutaneous testosterone produced serum levels that were within the normal range in 100% of patients for both peak and trough levels. This is the first report, which demonstrated the efficacy of delivering weekly testosterone using this cheap, safe, and less painful subcutaneous route




As these shots are going into fat, is anyone experiencing symptoms of more aromatase activity? Anyone doing bloodwork to look at testosterone and estrogen activities under each system? Does the sub q method produce the same availability as transdermal and comparable aromatase concerns? I know there are bound to be individual differneces, yet I'm wondering about aggregate or group differences relative to the different modes of delivery.

 

[JanSz]

here's a small study supporting the equivalency of Sub q to IM testosterone.

Al-Futaisi AM, Al-Zakwani IS, Almahrezi AM, Morris D. Subcutaneous administration of testosterone. A pilot study report. Saudi Med J. 2006;27(12):1843-6.

ABSTRACT

OBJECTIVE: To investigate the effect of low doses of subcutaneous testosterone in hypogonadal men since the intramuscular route, which is the most widely used form of testosterone replacement therapy, is inconvenient to many patients. METHODS: All men with primary and secondary hypogonadism attending the reproductive endocrine clinic at Royal Victoria Hospital, Monteral, Quebec, Canada, were invited to participate in the study. Subjects were enrolled from January 2002 till December 2002. Patients were asked to self-administer weekly low doses of testosterone enanthate using 0.5 ml insulin syringe. RESULTS: A total of 22 patients were enrolled in the study. The mean trough was 14.48 +/- 3.14 nmol/L and peak total testosterone was 21.65 +/- 7.32 nmol/L. For the free testosterone the average trough was 59.94 +/- 20.60 pmol/L and the peak was 85.17 +/- 32.88 pmol/L. All of the patients delivered testosterone with ease and no local reactions were reported. CONCLUSION: Therapy with weekly subcutaneous testosterone produced serum levels that were within the normal range in 100% of patients for both peak and trough levels. This is the first report, which demonstrated the efficacy of delivering weekly testosterone using this cheap, safe, and less painful subcutaneous route




As these shots are going into fat, is anyone experiencing symptoms of more aromatase activity? Anyone doing bloodwork to look at testosterone and estrogen activities under each system? Does the sub q method produce the same availability as transdermal and comparable aromatase concerns? I know there are bound to be individual differneces, yet I'm wondering about aggregate or group differences relative to the different modes of delivery.

Too early to draw conclusions.
6/19/07 I switched from Tcream to Depo-T, E3D
I do SubQ around navel using
BD Ultrafine II U-100 Insulin Syringe 31 Gauge 3/10cc 5/16inch Short Needle--1/2 Unit Markings.

So far nothing but good things to say.
No pain, no sorenes.
Lots of morning erections.
First time in years, sex without Cialis.

My next blood test is planned for September.

 

[volusia40]

Wow, that's good news. I didn't know that you could shoot depo T through a 31 gauge needle. Isn't it oil suspension?any problems with that?

peace

 

[Headdoc]

Wow, that's good news. I didn't know that you could shoot depo T through a 31 gauge needle. Isn't it oil suspension?any problems with that?

peace

filing the slin just takes a little longer.

 

[JanSz]

Wow, that's good news. I didn't know that you could shoot depo T through a 31 gauge needle. Isn't it oil suspension?any problems with that?

peace

Filling the syringe, 30units, takes 4 minutes.
......................
Right now I am using original Depo-T ($149) Walgreens.
if anyone else is using this system,
I need to know if other Depo-T's have same/similar flow.

I can get from Walgreens generic version ($100)
and from compounding pharmacy (using supposedly same cottonseed oil) below $50 with shipping.

 

[pmgamer18]

I use 200mgs./ml of Depo T and shoot every 3 days into my thigh my Dr. feels this is subQ. I pull .35mls into a 27g x 1/2" lg. needle takes about one min. When you do the shot you need to go slow and using a small needle it goes slow.

 

[Headdoc]

I use 200mgs./ml of Depo T and shoot every 3 days into my thigh my Dr. feels this is subQ. I pull .35mls into a 27g x 1/2" lg. needle takes about one min. When you do the shot you need to go slow and using a small needle it goes slow.

and did this adjustment in the method of delivery from IM to Subq have a concommitant change in E2?

 

[pmgamer18]

and did this adjustment in the method of delivery from IM to Subq have a concommitant change in E2?

Yes big time I went from 1mgs of aromdex a day to .5 mgs every other day. Yet now that I am on Florinef for low Aldosterone levels now my E2 is even much less a problem so much so I can't stop from going to low on my E2 just taking .25 mgs every 5 days now. I am thinking about stoping the Arimidex and going back on Idndlplex/DIM this kept me at a good level for a long time.

Now that I know I am secondary and treating all the things that are low I don't even need my T levels so high. The last thing we found bad was low Aldosterone and treating this got me feeling a 100%. I back in the gym and working out side around the house.

 

[Headdoc]

Yes big time I went from 1mgs of aromdex a day to .5 mgs every other day. Yet now that I am on Florinef for low Aldosterone levels now my E2 is even much less a problem so much so I can't stop from going to low on my E2 just taking .25 mgs every 5 days now. I am thinking about stoping the Arimidex and going back on Idndlplex/DIM this kept me at a good level for a long time.

Now that I know I am secondary and treating all the things that are low I don't even need my T levels so high. The last thing we found bad was low Aldosterone and treating this got me feeling a 100%. I back in the gym and working out side around the house.

your results surprise me.----in part. I still wonder if the transition from IM to Subq increased aromatization in a fashiion similar to transdermal. In your case, the Aldosterone had a significant imact. Thanks

 

[fit4life05]

im almost certain that i read a post at meso a few weeks ago where someone had switched to subq injections and e2 levels rose a significant number

 

[JanSz]

im almost certain that i read a post at meso a few weeks ago where someone had switched to subq injections and e2 levels rose a significant number

Try to locate that post, interesting.

 

[pmgamer18]

your results surprise me.----in part. I still wonder if the transition from IM to Subq increased aromatization in a fashiion similar to transdermal. In your case, the Aldosterone had a significant imact. Thanks

I have been doing my shot every 3 days using a 27g x 1/2" lg. needle for a long time. And my E2 were much less a problem now that I have been treating my low Aldosterone levels my E2 pproblems are about gone.

 

[KSman]

Wow, that's good news. I didn't know that you could shoot depo T through a 31 gauge needle. Isn't it oil suspension?any problems with that?

peace

The testosterone esters are created because they are oil soluble... so not a suspension.

The #31 gauge needle is working because it is very short. You can also use a #29 that is .5" long for IM shots where the skin is thin.

 

[fit4life05]

Try to locate that post, interesting.

http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/mens-health-forum/blood-test-results-after-134252351.html?highlight=subq

not sure if that was the one or not

 

[Headdoc]

thanks for the feedback. I could not find much on Pub-Med on the topic so I have been raising the issue and elsewhere. Your input for the past 4+ years has been priceless.

 

[pmgamer18]

Well for what it's worth my Dr. told me not to do my shots subQ into my belly. But he did say to try a 27g x 1/2" lg. needle and shoot every 3 days into my thigh. I am not to pinch up the skin but to stick the needle all the way in and then do the shot slow. This works dam good for me and has kept my E2 down a lot more then doing one shot a week.

 

[KSman]

Well for what it's worth my Dr. told me not to do my shots subQ into my belly. But he did say to try a 27g x 1/2" lg. needle and shoot every 3 days into my thigh. I am not to pinch up the skin but to stick the needle all the way in and then do the shot slow. This works dam good for me and has kept my E2 down a lot more then doing one shot a week.

Lets use the proper terms. We do not want guys injecting into what most think is the [inner] thigh... too many large vessels and nerves there.

Inject in the vastus lateralis, top outer quadrant of the quads, one hand span away from the knee or hip. Look for and avoid surface veins. Flex muscles to see where the bulk is and shoot there. If you do not have much muscle there, do some squats and that muscle will build very well. If you have thin skin, 1/2" needles are deep enough for IM shots if the shots are frequent enough to have low dose volumes. I shoot .14ml (28mg) EOD with a #29 .5ml insulin syringe. Insulin needles can be slow to load, but there is a strong comfort issue and less muscle scaring than larger needles and longer lengths.

 

[Headdoc]

Well for what it's worth my Dr. told me not to do my shots subQ into my belly. But he did say to try a 27g x 1/2" lg. needle and shoot every 3 days into my thigh. I am not to pinch up the skin but to stick the needle all the way in and then do the shot slow. This works dam good for me and has kept my E2 down a lot more then doing one shot a week.

there are really two issues that you raise here. One is the method of delivery and the other is value of small frequent doses. It makes sense to me that the smaller the dose the less kinetic interruption in the axis overall. I have been concerned about having depot testostone sitting on fat cells provoking aromatisation. If your point is that the dose is so small that aromatisation is not an issue, then great I've got my answer. Next, there is perhaps the issue of infection. When we inject into muscle, the material is moving about in active tissue. When we inject subq, it's into fat most of the time. So the HGH or HCG is in a liquid form and easier to absorb. The oil of the test yp is just going to sit there for longer. Lastly, I've done many subq shots into the quads and bled. So I aspirate even on subq. My legs are fairly lean (if only my abs were the same !). So for someone like myself, there is a caution about shoting into a vein. Phil, your feedback on my concerns is appreciated.

 

[Headdoc]

Lets use the proper terms. We do not want guys injecting into what most think is the [inner] thigh... too many large vessels and nerves there.

Inject in the vastus lateralis, top outer quadrant of the quads, one hand span away from the knee or hip. Look for and avoid surface veins. Flex muscles to see where the bulk is and shoot there. If you do not have much muscle there, do some squats and that muscle will build very well. If you have thin skin, 1/2" needles are deep enough for IM shots if the shots are frequent enough to have low dose volumes. I shoot .14ml (28mg) EOD with a #29 .5ml insulin syringe. Insulin needles can be slow to load, but there is a strong comfort issue and less muscle scaring than larger needles and longer lengths.

I've shot 31 X 5/16 and still bled. So .5 inch slin would work no better.

 

[pmgamer18]

I do shoot on the out side of my thigh just off the top where the muscle is. I allway aspirate yet still sometimes I am through a vain and will get a spot of blood when I pull out the needle. I am doing HCG in the thigh also I feel the HCG better then doing it subQ in my belly. So I am shooting every day. Been doing this a long time and my levels are good no infections or pain. I am retired and still wake up at 5am so I get up and do my shoots then and go back to bed until 8am I take my meds at this time also my cortef and Armour so when I get up 3 hrs later I feel dam good.

 

[Headdoc]

I do shoot on the out side of my thigh just off the top where the muscle is. I allway aspirate yet still sometimes I am through a vain and will get a spot of blood when I pull out the needle. I am doing HCG in the thigh also I feel the HCG better then doing it subQ in my belly. So I am shooting every day. Been doing this a long time and my levels are good no infections or pain. I am retired and still wake up at 5am so I get up and do my shoots then and go back to bed until 8am I take my meds at this time also my cortef and Armour so when I get up 3 hrs later I feel dam good.

Interesting, I wake around 4 AM and take the Armour and go back to sleep. This way, I get my juice and coffee when waking later.

 

[KSman]

Lot of capillaries in that area.

I spend a lot of time looking to see where the veins and smaller capillaries are. It is not easy. I rarely have a bleeder. I try to avoid getting a tan on those areas. Getting the right light is not easy. The veins on my upper legs just don't show much.

If you go through a surface vein and aspirate, nothing will show when asperating, but you can still have a small bleeder when the needle comes out.

 

[JanSz]

I spend a lot of time looking to see where the veins and smaller capillaries are. It is not easy. I rarely have a bleeder. I try to avoid getting a tan on those areas. Getting the right light is not easy. The veins on my upper legs just don't show much.

If you go through a surface vein and aspirate, nothing will show when asperating, but you can still have a small bleeder when the needle comes out.

Out of my last two subq shots (T+hcg) around navel, the hcg shot resulted in tiny bleeder. This happened second time, both with hcg shots. I started my hcg shots in February 07. This spot disappears in three days. I am not able to correlate it with any veins, I am white, no sun tan in that area but still I do not see any veins there. For me it is non-issue, possibly an issue for male models who could not put little make-up on that spot. The spot have diameter of a barrel of 1cc needle. If I had a suntan, most likely it would be hard to see that spot.

 

[pmgamer18]

Interesting, I wake around 4 AM and take the Armour and go back to sleep. This way, I get my juice and coffee when waking later.

Doing my meds and shots at 5am and going back to bed is great you just lay there and start feeling better. My HCG shots give me a feeling of well being and having sex after doing my HCG shot is so great your so relaxed that just being touched sends waves of pleasure every where. Also I could just lay there and cuddle for hrs.

 

[cpeil2]

The testosterone esters are created because they are oil soluble... so not a suspension.

I have always been a little curious about that. We commonly refer to T cyp as a suspension, but the ester would be non-polar and therefore soluble in oil. I went to the Pfizer web site and looked at the depo-testosterone package insert. Sure enought, they don't call it a suspension - they call it "depo-testosterone injection. They further say that is insoluble in water, freely soluble in alcohol and soluble in oil."

 

[pmgamer18]

You are HARD CORE!

Aren't you wanting to let your sleep cycle run naturally?

In my case I got up all my life to go to work at 5 am so here I am retired and still wakeing up at 5 am. This must be my Cycle.

 

[Headdoc]

You are HARD CORE!

Aren't you wanting to let your sleep cycle run naturally?

I usually make one trip to the bathroom per night. I just use that to take the armour. If I sleep through the night, I just take the pill on waking. This then delays the juice and coffee.

 

[Headdoc]

Same here for the one trip--or I haven't had enough water to drink that day.

...but I avoid fruit juice in the morning in favor of a banana.

I like cranberry and pomagranate.

 

[T800]

I have been on sub-q injects for about 12 weeks now. I haven't had a blood test since week 4 and will be getting another one soon.

At the 4 week mark, sub-q injects were doing better (for me) than IM for E2 control. Total T and DHT were about the same as 100mg IM, but Free T was noticeably higher. However, we know that the Free T test has to be taken with a grain of salt.

I'll have to see if the above is still the case at week 12.

I intentionally avoided the blood tests recently because in the past, I feel that I've been guilty of looking at the numbers before making my mind up about how I felt. They can and do affect peoples' ability to be objective and I wanted to be objective as possible.

Vforcer2 is the only one I know of who has reported worse E2 control with sub-q injects.

I think Dr John's reasoning for not using sub-q injects is valid and in his position, I totally understand since he is responsible for a lot of people. I made the personal decision to give sub-q a shot to see how it would do and so far, I've been happy with it. Of course, I might see my labs soon and suddenly decide that I've felt terrible all along.

Sonny

 

[pmgamer18]

Vforcer2 went from Pellets to SubQ shots his E2 come up from the levels on Pellets and not that much still he is lower with his E2 doing subQ shots every 3 days as to IM every week. So far I know of on one that had there E2 go up on SubQ shots every 3 days or 2 times a week.

I have been on sub-q injects for about 12 weeks now. I haven't had a blood test since week 4 and will be getting another one soon.

At the 4 week mark, sub-q injects were doing better (for me) than IM for E2 control. Total T and DHT were about the same as 100mg IM, but Free T was noticeably higher. However, we know that the Free T test has to be taken with a grain of salt.

I'll have to see if the above is still the case at week 12.

I intentionally avoided the blood tests recently because in the past, I feel that I've been guilty of looking at the numbers before making my mind up about how I felt. They can and do affect peoples' ability to be objective and I wanted to be objective as possible.

Vforcer2 is the only one I know of who has reported worse E2 control with sub-q injects.

I think Dr John's reasoning for not using sub-q injects is valid and in his position, I totally understand since he is responsible for a lot of people. I made the personal decision to give sub-q a shot to see how it would do and so far, I've been happy with it. Of course, I might see my labs soon and suddenly decide that I've felt terrible all along.

Sonny

 

[hardasnails1973]

Vforcer2 went from Pellets to SubQ shots his E2 come up from the levels on Pellets and not that much still he is lower with his E2 doing subQ shots every 3 days as to IM every week. So far I know of on one that had there E2 go up on SubQ shots every 3 days or 2 times a week.

My personal expreince is that if a person that has altered thyroid and does not Do IM shots may expereince same problem as people with the gels, mainly because Test is just sitting there forming a "resevoiran" stimulating aromtases are more active at the sub q level then at the IM level, Any thoughts?

 

[plymouth city]

In my case I got up all my life to go to work at 5 am so here I am retired and still wakeing up at 5 am. This must be my Cycle.

GH is released in high amounts between 10pm - 2am.

There is no doubt in my mind it is absolutely one of the healthiest things one can do is to go to bed early and arise early.

Now if I could only give up the night life and do so. Ah, my last vice. :lol:

 

[plymouth city]

5. We are at the cutting edge already. I'd be drawn and quartered in my local community if the medical establishment found out I was doing this.

.

If its the local sorority at MSU doing it that would be so bad eh :thumbsup:

 

[plymouth city]

3. On a more serious note, we just do not know at this time what injecting an oil into fatty tissue is going to do to that tissue long term.

.

I was thinking the exact same thing.

 

[plymouth city]

Any lean guys injecting T or hCG into belly fat?

What if someone was really really lean? Full 6 pack, low BF%?

 

[SoMdHunter]

I've shot 31 X 5/16 and still bled. So .5 inch slin would work no better.

Have your wife/gf try a glute shot. I've never bled with those. Or try the ventro.....the small muscle just below your hip bone. Totally painless and very easy to do.

 

[KSman]

T susp is in water. That is why you have to shake it.

From my reading, T susp is very painful! 200mg test cyp is painless. Some stronger test esters are painful, from the concentration or higher amounts of benzyl alcohol I do not know.

 

[farmerjohn]

I am one of Dr. Shippens patients and am taking T cyp subQ with a 5/16" 27 g needle into the stomach. I have had no problems with infections or pain doing this but my E2 has been running about 60 on most tests while taking 1/2 DIM per day. I upped it to 1 DIM per day and should have the results tomorrow. I am taking 0.8 cc of 100mg/cc T cyp one time a week and taking HCG the 4 days prior to the T cyp shot. Total T has been running around 750 - 800 on most tests.

I am a little concerned about Doctor John's concerns with shooting into fat. I have been doing this for about 9 months now with no problem but I'm curious what kind of risk there might be to shooting an oil into the fat. Are we just talking risk of infection or what?

 

[Headdoc]

I am one of Dr. Shippens patients and am taking T cyp subQ with a 5/16" 27 g needle into the stomach. I have had no problems with infections or pain doing this but my E2 has been running about 60 on most tests while taking 1/2 DIM per day. I upped it to 1 DIM per day and should have the results tomorrow. I am taking 0.8 cc of 100mg/cc T cyp one time a week and taking HCG the 4 days prior to the T cyp shot. Total T has been running around 750 - 800 on most tests.

I am a little concerned about Doctor John's concerns with shooting into fat. I have been doing this for about 9 months now with no problem but I'm curious what kind of risk there might be to shooting an oil into the fat. Are we just talking risk of infection or what?

as I recall, Dr. John raised a concern not a prediction. Please keep us up on what you are doing. How much HCG are you doing per shot?

 

[ItsHectic]

the glute is painless aswell if done right.

 

[farmerjohn]

as I recall, Dr. John raised a concern not a prediction. Please keep us up on what you are doing. How much HCG are you doing per shot?

I agree he raised a concern about injecting an oil into fat tissue but did not say what he was worried about specifically.

I am taking 400 iu of HCG the 4 days prior to my weekly T shot. It may seem like a lot of HCG but I once tried to reduce the dose and lost my morning erections. I may try again to make sure it was not some other factor. Shippen tried me on sole HCG first and after months of adjusting doses I was up to 500 iu daily and could only get total T up to 300 or so. Before seeing him I was on androgel for 4 years and my theory is the testicular atrophy would not reverse for me for some reason. I was theoretically secondary on initial diagnosis at age 41 with a total T of 98 and LH of 4.1.

I am 48 now and I feel pretty good on this therapy. I have good nighttime erections most days, usually do not have any ED issue when trying to have sex and my energy levels are pretty good. This is despite the fact my E2 is running around 60 and I am worried about that and want to get it down. I'm worried about developing prostate problems due to the high E2.

 

[KSman]

I agree he raised a concern about injecting an oil into fat tissue but did not say what he was worried about specifically.

I am taking 400 iu of HCG the 4 days prior to my weekly T shot. It may seem like a lot of HCG but I once tried to reduce the dose and lost my morning erections. I may try again to make sure it was not some other factor. Shippen tried me on sole HCG first and after months of adjusting doses I was up to 500 iu daily and could only get total T up to 300 or so. Before seeing him I was on androgel for 4 years and my theory is the testicular atrophy would not reverse for me for some reason. I was theoretically secondary on initial diagnosis at age 41 with a total T of 98 and LH of 4.1.

I am 48 now and I feel pretty good on this therapy. I have good nighttime erections most days, usually do not have any ED issue when trying to have sex and my energy levels are pretty good. This is despite the fact my E2 is running around 60 and I am worried about that and want to get it down. I'm worried about developing prostate problems due to the high E2.

I agree that the E2 levels need to be tackled. I would not be surprised if getting that down created a big boost in libido. From my experience, you might have to get E2 down into the lower 20's in a <53 lab range for serum E2.

If the test esters were not working right in the fat tissues, you might feel some change in texture. But if the SQ injections are driving high E2 levels, then that is a worry. The general truth about this is not known, but we can expect that some will be more susceptible to this than others.

You might be comfortable injecting your T EOD or E3D with #29 .5" .5ml syringes in the vastus lateralis.

Does your Doctor ever talk about using an AI? For me, it was the key to making my TRT+HCG work right and without the AI, life sort of sucked. My E2=37 was not high, but caused problems for me. 1mg of anastrozole per week took me to E2=22 and the problems went away.

 

[pmgamer18]

Hi farmerjohn been sometime what are your SHBG levels if on the high side you can do good at higher E2 levels we have some guys at the H2 group doing good in the low 40's for there E2.

I agree he raised a concern about injecting an oil into fat tissue but did not say what he was worried about specifically.

I am taking 400 iu of HCG the 4 days prior to my weekly T shot. It may seem like a lot of HCG but I once tried to reduce the dose and lost my morning erections. I may try again to make sure it was not some other factor. Shippen tried me on sole HCG first and after months of adjusting doses I was up to 500 iu daily and could only get total T up to 300 or so. Before seeing him I was on androgel for 4 years and my theory is the testicular atrophy would not reverse for me for some reason. I was theoretically secondary on initial diagnosis at age 41 with a total T of 98 and LH of 4.1.

I am 48 now and I feel pretty good on this therapy. I have good nighttime erections most days, usually do not have any ED issue when trying to have sex and my energy levels are pretty good. This is despite the fact my E2 is running around 60 and I am worried about that and want to get it down. I'm worried about developing prostate problems due to the high E2.

 

[hardasnails1973]

Hi farmerjohn been sometime what are your SHBG levels if on the high side you can do good at higher E2 levels we have some guys at the H2 group doing good in the low 40's for there E2.

So with higher shbg one can have e2 defiecicy with lower e2 then?

recap
low e2 and low shbg = good e =20 shbg = 20
high e2 and low shbg = bad e 50 and shbg = 20
low e2 and high shbg = bad e = 17 and shbg = 40

 

[pmgamer18]

So with higher shbg one can have e2 defiecicy with lower e2 then?

recap
low e2 and low shbg = good e =20 shbg = 20

Or lower like 15 pg/ml.

high e2 and low shbg = bad e 50 and shbg = 20

Yes you can have bad problems this way.

low e2 and high shbg = bad e = 17 and shbg = 40

Yes this is as bad as above and will do in your sex life.

 

[hardasnails1973]

Or lower like 15 pg/ml.

Yes you can have bad problems this way.

Yes this is as bad as above and will do in your sex life.

If e2 = 17 and shbg 40
WOULD YOU
a) raise estrogen
b) drop shbg

My shbg was extremely low 17-20 taking fish oils like crazy, but since stopping them it seem to have crept up..Does this make sense ? Why I want to get my EFA ratio of AA:epa checked..

 

[farmerjohn]

Shippen does not believe in using arrimidex as far as I know. I was using 1/2 DIM, now 1 DIM and based on the results I should have gotten today I was going to ask him what next if still too high. I read on one post he was using Chrysin gel so that may be the next thing to try. I'm also taking zinc and Resveratrol. I would not mind taking the shots more often but can't imagine using a needle much smaller in guage and it working. I have some like that though so I could try it. I think they are 29g 1/2". One thing I noticed for the last 2 shots is the tissue seems harder to push the needle in. It could be a coincidence but this happened on both sides of the stomach. I swap sides each week and try to pick a differnent spot.

Hello Phil! My SHBG is low at 17. I can say my libido is not always great but once I get going I'm usually ok. I have a couple days a week where libido is pretty good. So I guess I am in the category of high E2 and low SHBG.....not good

 

[pmgamer18]

If e2 = 17 and shbg 40
WOULD YOU
a) raise estrogen
b) drop shbg

My shbg was extremely low 17-20 taking fish oils like crazy, but since stopping them it seem to have crept up..Does this make sense ? Why I want to get my EFA ratio of AA:epa checked..

I am going through this right now my E2 is to low I just cut back on the Arimidex until my E2 comes up. I don't stop the Arimidex longer then 5 days at a time or I will start having panic attacks even though my E2 has not come up as high as I need it. For some reasion the E2 going up to fast sets my panic attacks off.

 

[pmgamer18]

What is the brand name of the DIM your using I tried a lot of them and got nothing this was the one that worked for me. And it comes in a tablet so you can cut it in half I did good a long time on one half a tablet.
http://www.ritecare.com/prodsheets/PHY-15336.html

Shippen does not believe in using arrimidex as far as I know. I was using 1/2 DIM, now 1 DIM and based on the results I should have gotten today I was going to ask him what next if still too high. I read on one post he was using Chrysin gel so that may be the next thing to try. I'm also taking zinc and Resveratrol. I would not make taking the shots more often. One thing I noticed for the last 2 shots is the tissue seems harder to push the needle in. It could be a coincidence but this happened on both sides of the stomach. I swap sides each week and try to pick a differnent spot.

 

[farmerjohn]

That is the same one I'm using, its by Phytopharmica. By the way, Shippen is using one by "Pure Encapsulations" which I may try if this one does not work for me.