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Board Veterans........Need advice on test results...

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    Question Board Veterans........Need advice on test results...


    My buddy just got his bloodwork back and wants some advice on his "stats"...........His major complaints are fatigue, sore joints, brain fog, strong sugar cravings, intestinal bloating, occasional serious gout in both knees and absolutely no sex drive for the past 3 years.........He was in the Gulf War in 1991, was in the barracks(sp) that were blown up with a scud missile at the end of the conflict and he had some pretty serious "concussive injuries", along with losing part of his left lung............He currently drives a semi-truck and admits his diet is crap, which Dr John is working with him on those issues.........

    The strange thing with his case, among other issues, is that his bloodwork came back much different, in regards to his thyroid and testosterone levels, from blood work he had done at the VA a year earlier..........Just does not seem possible that he could have significantly higher levels, when he does not take any steroids and he is feeling much worse than last year............He did say that his recent "blood-draw" at Quest was strange, he said that the nurse told him his vein was drying up and that she only took 3 or 4 vials of blood.........I had similar bloodwork done from Dr John, and I think they took about 7-9 vials of blood.........So, not sure if this could cause his levels to be higher if they did not have enough sample??? Open for suggestions on this????


    2006..........Limited testing from VA

    Testosterone.......2.9........ ...........1.7-7.8 ng/ml
    TSH...............4.72 (4/27)
    ...............3.09 (4/24)
    **assuming they took samples on 2 different days



    2007...........Testing via Quest Labs

    Testosterone....(total)....... ....836...........241-827 ng/dl
    Testosterone (free and wb)......634..........84-402 ng/dl
    Free Test.......................... ...290...........34-194 pg/ml
    SHBG.......................... .........14.............5-49 nmol/L
    Albumin....................... ........4.8.............3.6-5.1g/dl

    IGF-1............................. ....169..............106-255ng/ml

    Estradiol..................... ........26...............< 29pg/ml
    DHT........................... ........44...............25-75ng/dL


    Lipid Panel:

    Triglycerides................. .....257................<150mg/dl
    Cholesterol (total)...............232..... ...........125-200 mg/dl
    HDL........................... ......26..................>40m g/dl
    LDL........................... .......155................<130 mg/dl
    Chol/HDL ratio.....................8.9. ...............< 5.0


    C-reactive Protein..............(.13).... ..........<.80 mg/dl
    Homocysteine.................. ..(11.0).............<11.4 umol/L
    Cortisol...total.............. ......15.6...............10am
    DHEA-s............................. 135................110-370mg/dl

    FSH........................... ...4.5....................1.6-8.0mIU/ml
    LH............................ ...5.4....................1.5-9.3mIU/ml

    Insulin....................... .20.......................<17 uIU/ml
    Progesterone...............(.9 )....................<1.4 ng/ml
    Prolactin..................... 5.4.....................2.0-18 ng/mL

    TSH.........................2. 7.......................(.4-5.5 mIU/L)
    T3 free.....................374.. ....................230-420 pg/dL
    T4 free.....................1.0.. ....................(.8-1.8ng/dL)

    Glucose.....................76 ......................65-99 mg/dL
    BUN..........................1 9......................7-25 mg/dl
    Creatine.....................1 .4....................(.5-1.3 mg/dl)
    GFR........................... 60.....................>60 mL/min

    Sodium......................14 1....................135-146
    Potassium...................4. 1....................3.5-5.3
    Chloride...................... 105....................98-110
    Carbon Dioxide..............19....... ..............21-33 nmol
    Calcium....................... 10.1...................8.6-10.2
    Protein....................... .7.5.....................6.2-8.3
    Albumin....................... 4.8.....................3.6-5.1
    Globulin...................... ..2.7....................2.1-3.7
    Bilirubin..................... ...1.0.....................(.2-1.2)
    Alkaline Phosphate..........102........ ............40-115
    AST........................... ...50.....................10-40 U/L
    ALT........................... ...129....................9-60 U/L


    CBC:

    WBC........................... ...7.6...................3.8-10.8
    RBC........................... ....5.74.................4.2-5.8
    Hemoglobin.................... ..17.6................13.2-17.1 g/dl
    Hematocrit.................... ..50.7.................38.5-50.0
    MCV........................... ....88.4.................80-100
    MCH........................... ....30.6.................27-33
    MCHC.......................... ....34.6.................32-36
    RDW........................... .....13.5.................11-15
    Platelet Count....................255.. ................140-400
    Neutrophils................... .....4142...............1500-7800
    Lymphocytes................... ...2706...............850-3900
    Monocytes..................... ...388..................200-950
    Eosinophils................... ......342..................15-500
    Basophils..................... ......23....................0-200

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    Well for example we can use me... My TSH was at .001 3 months ago, now it is almost 4.2.

    Things change a lot in a years time, especially when something is wrong with you.

    Were both tests done at the same hour of day?

    I don't think the blood volume (sample sizes) are going to matter. If you have X ng/dl in your blood, it is the same for .25oz as well as a gallon... The difference will be tiny.

    No matter what, he is in GREAT hands with Dr. John.
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    Thanks SMC252...........


    I appreciate your input, I didnt think "sample size" would have that much of an effect either.............I just cant figure out why his testosterone numbers and thyroid numbers have improved so much, when he is feeling worse???? Just seems to be odd.........The only thing that has changed with his medications is he stopped taking prednisone and he takes a different anti-depressant........but that is about it.........

    Dr John is going to have him re-run his labs again in a month, so I guess we will see what that shows..........Maybe his fatigue, sex drive and other problems are due to the concussive head injury he sustained in 1991...........With everything I have read about head injuries, its hard for me to believe that his hypothalamus and pituitary are working correctly............He lost 75 percent or more hearing in both ears from the scud missile, so that is a pretty bad trauma.......Just doesnt add up to me, but I know Dr John will figure it out........That's why we went to the best.........
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingneptune40 View Post
    Maybe his fatigue, sex drive and other problems are due to the concussive head injury he sustained in 1991...........With everything I have read about head injuries, its hard for me to believe that his hypothalamus and pituitary are working correctly............He lost 75 percent or more hearing in both ears from the scud missile, so that is a pretty bad trauma.......Just doesnt add up to me, but I know Dr John will figure it out........That's why we went to the best.........
    They very well could be, I suspect pituitary damage in myself, yet my total testosterone is 360/370.. All my numbers are low/normal so most docs are assuming that is just the way I have always been.

    Sorry to hear about his misfortunes, I am sure he deals with a LOT of psychological stress on top of it all. For what it is worth, thank him for making such a big sacrifice.
    My Dad was in Vietnam and suffers quite a bit from all of it, hearing is one of the many issues with him, yet the VA wont get him hearing aids. Both grandfathers, great grandfathers and my dad were all soldiers of some sort. After seeing Uncle Sam deny his existance in Vietnam due to some things he saw, I decided to break the chain. The best thing you can do right now is keep being a good friend to him, it sucks being sick.

    I wish I could see Dr. John, right now, it is just not feasable for me. I wish him all the luck in the world, keep us updated on how he is doing!

    -Steve
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    Thanks again Steve, hopefully Dr John can get to the bottom of this scenario...........My buddy has been thru hell since the Gulf War, but he just keeps pushing on...........Both of our dads did 2 tours in Vietnam and I still think my health problems are related to the chemicals my father was exposed to over in Nam..........Agent Orange and other experimental chemicals...........
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingneptune40 View Post
    My buddy just got his bloodwork back and wants some advice on his "stats"...........His major complaints are fatigue, sore joints, brain fog, strong sugar cravings, intestinal bloating, occasional serious gout in both knees and absolutely no sex drive for the past 3 years.........He was in the Gulf War in 1991, was in the barracks(sp) that were blown up with a scud missile at the end of the conflict and he had some pretty serious "concussive injuries", along with losing part of his left lung............He currently drives a semi-truck and admits his diet is crap, which Dr John is working with him on those issues.........

    The strange thing with his case, among other issues, is that his bloodwork came back much different, in regards to his thyroid and testosterone levels, from blood work he had done at the VA a year earlier..........Just does not seem possible that he could have significantly higher levels, when he does not take any steroids and he is feeling much worse than last year............He did say that his recent "blood-draw" at Quest was strange, he said that the nurse told him his vein was drying up and that she only took 3 or 4 vials of blood.........I had similar bloodwork done from Dr John, and I think they took about 7-9 vials of blood.........So, not sure if this could cause his levels to be higher if they did not have enough sample??? Open for suggestions on this????


    2006..........Limited testing from VA

    Testosterone.......2.9........ ...........1.7-7.8 ng/ml
    TSH...............4.72 (4/27)
    ...............3.09 (4/24)
    **assuming they took samples on 2 different days



    2007...........Testing via Quest Labs

    Testosterone....(total)....... ....836...........241-827 ng/dl
    Testosterone (free and wb)......634..........84-402 ng/dl
    Free Test.......................... ...290...........34-194 pg/ml
    SHBG.......................... .........14.............5-49 nmol/L
    Albumin....................... ........4.8.............3.6-5.1g/dl

    IGF-1............................. ....169..............106-255ng/ml

    Estradiol..................... ........26...............< 29pg/ml
    DHT........................... ........44...............25-75ng/dL

    Lipid Panel:

    Triglycerides................. .....257................<150mg/dl
    Cholesterol (total)...............232..... ...........125-200 mg/dl
    HDL........................... ......26..................>40m g/dl
    LDL........................... .......155................<130 mg/dl
    Chol/HDL ratio.....................8.9. ...............< 5.0


    C-reactive Protein..............(.13).... ..........<.80 mg/dl
    Homocysteine.................. ..(11.0).............<11.4 umol/L
    Cortisol...total.............. ......15.6...............10am
    DHEA-s............................. 135................110-370mg/dl

    FSH........................... ...4.5....................1.6-8.0mIU/ml
    LH............................ ...5.4....................1.5-9.3mIU/ml

    Insulin....................... .20.......................<17 uIU/ml
    Progesterone...............(.9 )....................<1.4 ng/ml
    Prolactin..................... 5.4.....................2.0-18 ng/mL

    TSH.........................2. 7.......................(.4-5.5 mIU/L)
    T3 free.....................374.. ....................230-420 pg/dL
    T4 free.....................1.0.. ....................(.8-1.8ng/dL)


    Glucose.....................76 ......................65-99 mg/dL
    BUN..........................1 9......................7-25 mg/dl
    Creatine.....................1 .4....................(.5-1.3 mg/dl)
    GFR........................... 60.....................>60 mL/min

    Sodium......................14 1....................135-146
    Potassium...................4. 1....................3.5-5.3
    Chloride...................... 105....................98-110
    Carbon Dioxide..............19....... ..............21-33 nmol
    Calcium....................... 10.1...................8.6-10.2
    Protein....................... .7.5.....................6.2-8.3
    Albumin....................... 4.8.....................3.6-5.1
    Globulin...................... ..2.7....................2.1-3.7
    Bilirubin..................... ...1.0.....................(.2-1.2)
    Alkaline Phosphate..........102........ ............40-115
    AST........................... ...50.....................10-40 U/L
    ALT........................... ...129....................9-60 U/L


    CBC:

    WBC........................... ...7.6...................3.8-10.8
    RBC........................... ....5.74.................4.2-5.8
    Hemoglobin.................... ..17.6................13.2-17.1 g/dl
    Hematocrit.................... ..50.7.................38.5-50.0
    MCV........................... ....88.4.................80-100
    MCH........................... ....30.6.................27-33
    MCHC.......................... ....34.6.................32-36
    RDW........................... .....13.5.................11-15
    Platelet Count....................255.. ................140-400
    Neutrophils................... .....4142...............1500-7800
    Lymphocytes................... ...2706...............850-3900
    Monocytes..................... ...388..................200-950
    Eosinophils................... ......342..................15-500
    Basophils..................... ......23....................0-200
    He should lower tiny bit his testosterone.
    Watch out any supplements that would lower SHBG.
    His SHBG is low.

    But his
    FSH...4.5......1.6-8.0mIU/ml
    LH...5.4 ......1.5-9.3mIU/ml

    are not suppressed
    such high FreeT and BAT
    what is going on here...
    tell me more

    DHT...44 .....25-75ng/dL
    is mid range (only)
    when/if supplementing with T first choce are transdermals.
    ---------------------------------------------
    Homocysteine(11.0) is high, desirable =<(7.2)
    Homocysteine Resist, 100 Capsules
    Homocysteine Reduction: Online References For Health Concerns


    T3 free...374... 230-420 pg/dL
    T4 free...1.0... (.8-1.8ng/dL)
    possibly hi should start here first, and get his freet3 on top
    easy to adjust, potentially can have big gains right here,
    then it depends who's checking, I am not a doctor.
    I would do adrenals (cortisolAM/PM possibly more) testing before starting treating thyroid.
    His morning (10AM) cortisol 15.6, but he went thru concussion so his adrenals are always suspect.

    His DHEAs is low, pregnenolone prescription strenght compounded cream may fix the problem if not add compounded DHEA.

    ============================== =======
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    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    He should lower tiny bit his testosterone.
    Watch out any supplements that would lower SHBG.
    His SHBG is low.

    But his
    FSH...4.5......1.6-8.0mIU/ml
    LH...5.4 ......1.5-9.3mIU/ml

    are not suppressed
    such high FreeT and BAT
    what is going on here...
    tell me more

    DHT...44 .....25-75ng/dL
    is mid range (only)
    when/if supplementing with T first choce are transdermals.
    ---------------------------------------------
    Homocysteine(11.0) is high, desirable =<(7.2)
    Homocysteine Resist, 100 Capsules
    Homocysteine Reduction: Online References For Health Concerns


    T3 free...374... 230-420 pg/dL
    T4 free...1.0... (.8-1.8ng/dL)
    possibly hi should start here first, and get his freet3 on top
    easy to adjust, potentially can have big gains right here,
    then it depends who's checking, I am not a doctor.
    I would do adrenals (cortisolAM/PM possibly more) testing before starting treating thyroid.

    His DHEAs is low, pregnenolone prescription strenght compounded cream may fix the problem if not add compounded DHEA.

    ============================== =======

    With shbg being low its look into insulin resistance with 3 hour glucose tolerance tests and bank on some kind of adrenal imbalances.

    Factors indicating metabolic syndrome
    1. low dhea
    2. elevated trigycerides
    3. elevated insulin
    4. elevated homocysteine levels

    How much exposure to sunlight you gettig as well, look into checking on vitamin D levels not 1,25 serum essay
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    JanSz............thanks for your input. Not sure why his testosterone was this high, especially since it was low the previous year.........He did "experiment" with 1ml/wk of Equipoise to see if it would boost his energy levels, but he only took it for 6 weeks and stopped 4 weeks before his appt with Dr John........He said his energy levels and sex drive came back on week 4 of his "experiment", but when he discontinued he felt even worse than before he started........

    He tried Androgel last year, but it did not give him much of a boost.........His diet is horrible and Dr John has discussed this with him, along with his chewing tobacco habit..........He drives a semi-truck, and he has established some bad eating habits being on the road.........

    Dr John has started him on some DHEA and wants him to re-run his labs in a month, to see if they are accurate.......Should he have this compounded or is DHEA as effective in capsules?? Thanks JanSz

    HardasNails.........thanks for your input too........What's the easiest way to get the 3 hour glucose tolerance test........through his general practitioner or Dr John??? He does have some major adrenal imbalances, judging from his symptoms and the symptoms Dr John posted earlier on a previous thread..........His sugar cravings are out of this world.........He has said that the DHEA capsules have helped him feel somewhat better.........time will tell.........
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingneptune40 View Post
    JanSz............thanks for your input. Not sure why his testosterone was this high, especially since it was low the previous year.........He did "experiment" with 1ml/wk of Equipoise to see if it would boost his energy levels, but he only took it for 6 weeks and stopped 4 weeks before his appt with Dr John........He said his energy levels and sex drive came back on week 4 of his "experiment", but when he discontinued he felt even worse than before he started........

    He tried Androgel last year, but it did not give him much of a boost.........His diet is horrible and Dr John has discussed this with him, along with his chewing tobacco habit..........He drives a semi-truck, and he has established some bad eating habits being on the road.........

    Dr John has started him on some DHEA and wants him to re-run his labs in a month, to see if they are accurate.......Should he have this compounded or is DHEA as effective in capsules?? Thanks JanSz

    HardasNails.........thanks for your input too........What's the easiest way to get the 3 hour glucose tolerance test........through his general practitioner or Dr John??? He does have some major adrenal imbalances, judging from his symptoms and the symptoms Dr John posted earlier on a previous thread..........His sugar cravings are out of this world.........He has said that the DHEA capsules have helped him feel somewhat better.........time will tell.........

    Gymnema silverstra standardized at75% active root will kill sugar cravings and help insulin reistance. 100 mgs of k rala 2 times a day with 5,000 mgs biotin aids in inuslin imbalnaces, as well as 400-500 mcgs chromium (get albion chelated formula or GTF tolerance ) picolnate sucks !! .

    Dr john can order glucose test or his primary.. More and more I look at things its the altered lipid and homocysteine levels that are dead ringers. also have him check serum b-12, folate, b-6. Correcting this imbalances this will bring down homcystein levels and may help the insulin reistance (what came first you never know), but will bring ing down homocystein helps inuslin reistance remains to be seen, but high inuslin levels due increase homocystein levels which is highly scientific supported. Elevated homocystein is also a sign of possible b-6, folic acid, or b-12 deficeincy ..TMG works well here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingneptune40 View Post
    JanSz............thanks for your input. Not sure why his testosterone was this high, especially since it was low the previous year.........He did "experiment" with 1ml/wk of Equipoise to see if it would boost his energy levels, but he only took it for 6 weeks and stopped 4 weeks before his appt with Dr John........He said his energy levels and sex drive came back on week 4 of his "experiment", but when he discontinued he felt even worse than before he started........

    He tried Androgel last year, but it did not give him much of a boost.........His diet is horrible and Dr John has discussed this with him, along with his chewing tobacco habit..........He drives a semi-truck, and he has established some bad eating habits being on the road.........

    Dr John has started him on some DHEA and wants him to re-run his labs in a month, to see if they are accurate.......Should he have this compounded or is DHEA as effective in capsules?? Thanks JanSz

    HardasNails.........thanks for your input too........What's the easiest way to get the 3 hour glucose tolerance test........through his general practitioner or Dr John??? He does have some major adrenal imbalances, judging from his symptoms and the symptoms Dr John posted earlier on a previous thread..........His sugar cravings are out of this world.........He has said that the DHEA capsules have helped him feel somewhat better.........time will tell.........
    #1 about DHEA (and anything else) he should listed to dr John.

    If you want re-read my previous post, (the part on DHEA).
  

  
 

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