Help with Estrogen Question

professorJohn

New member
Awards
0
In the last two years I have suffered all the symtoms of male andropause, loss of concentration, lack of energy and enthusiasm, loss in muscle mass, and most importantly, for a married man, absolutely zero libido. I recently went to my GP and he ran complete tests, CBC, Lipids, Blood Sugar, etc. Everything was fine. I requested a Total Testosterone, SHGB, Estradiol. In the past my total test always ran between 950-1000. Recent results:

Total Test-613 range 250-1100
Estradiol- 43 Range 13-54
SHGB- 56- over range of 8-46

I was quite concerned about all three of these. First, my testosterone has declined by about 40% from what it always was, Much of what I read states that that can be devestating to someone who normally on the high end. Also, I've been reading that estrogen should be best kept at around 20 for libido, and my SHGB is way to high.

Well, final thoughts by my GP were that my testosterone is fine and I'm just getting older so a 40% decline is normal. He says that estrogen is good in that it helps prevent bone density loss and other health issues and my number is fine. Lastly, he said not to even worry about the SHGB. Seemed like he really was not well versed on the area of anti-aging and andropause. Also, he said TRT causes prostate cancer.

I'm I a potential candidate for TRT? Anyone help?

Thanks.
 
CF10

CF10

Member
Awards
0
There are certainly smarter people on here than me, but 2 things I see are:

1) Estradiol is a little up, and if estradiol gets too high or too low it kills libido. Maybe that is higher than normal for you, even though it is in the 'normal' range.

2) SHBG is high. While you do have a decent amount of total testosterone, your doctor needs to look at free testosterone because that's the important reading. If SHBG is high, I'd bet your free T is low.

Those two factors could cause your problems.
 

smc252

Member
Awards
1
  • Established
Recent results:

Total Test-613 range 250-1100
Estradiol- 43 Range 13-54
SHGB- 56- over range of 8-46

I was quite concerned about all three of these. First, my testosterone has declined by about 40% from what it always was, Much of what I read states that that can be devestating to someone who normally on the high end. Also, I've been reading that estrogen should be best kept at around 20 for libido, and my SHGB is way to high.

I'm I a potential candidate for TRT? Anyone help?
How old are you currently, and how old were you when you were at 900+ ?

We need to see your bio or free testosterone to truely know what is going on.

Estradiol and SHBG appear to be hogging up your free testosterone. Ideally estradiol will be at 20 with a deviation of 10, at the MOST (IE, 10-30 is "optimal" range.)

Your symptoms mean more then numbers, in reality though. I would assume the first step is to lower the Estradiol, and then recheck bloodwork. Checking thyroid, LH/FSH..etc can never hurt too.
 

hardasnails1973

Registered User
Awards
1
  • Established
In the last two years I have suffered all the symtoms of male andropause, loss of concentration, lack of energy and enthusiasm, loss in muscle mass, and most importantly, for a married man, absolutely zero libido. I recently went to my GP and he ran complete tests, CBC, Lipids, Blood Sugar, etc. Everything was fine. I requested a Total Testosterone, SHGB, Estradiol. In the past my total test always ran between 950-1000. Recent results:

Total Test-613 range 250-1100
Estradiol- 43 Range 13-54
SHGB- 56- over range of 8-46

I was quite concerned about all three of these. First, my testosterone has declined by about 40% from what it always was, Much of what I read states that that can be devestating to someone who normally on the high end. Also, I've been reading that estrogen should be best kept at around 20 for libido, and my SHGB is way to high.

Well, final thoughts by my GP were that my testosterone is fine and I'm just getting older so a 40% decline is normal. He says that estrogen is good in that it helps prevent bone density loss and other health issues and my number is fine. Lastly, he said not to even worry about the SHGB. Seemed like he really was not well versed on the area of anti-aging and andropause. Also, he said TRT causes prostate cancer.

I'm I a potential candidate for TRT? Anyone help?



Thanks.

I think adrenal imbalances would be the first place I would look for ..Simple salivia test will confirm this. Second look for underactive thyroid. A proper thyroid is needed to control estrogen metabolism. third look for dietary and lifestyle changes lossing weight can lower the shbg Too many omega 6 to 3 will also cause elevated shbg 2 tsp fish oils a day will help with this . your bioavailable testosterone is less then 30-40% of what the total testosterone. Look towards prostrate enlargement as well low gh levels andlow DHEA possible. need more data to get over all pics
 

professorJohn

New member
Awards
0
Reponse to Estrogen Question-Considering Visit to Dr. John?

I am now 48 years old, and my Total test was at 900+ at age 43-45. Also Had FSH and LH checked and they were both around 5.0, which I'm told is good. My free testosterone % was low-1.09% range 1.10-2.80%. But GP said not to worry since total was at around 600.

I am not really far from Dr. John Crisler's location and was going top call his office to attempt to become a new patient, however, I figured that with a total testosterone of 600 I would not be considered a candidate. Although, as I stated just a few years ago my total was 40% higher and more importantly I have every symptom of andropause....I feel like a shell of the man I was 5 years ago.

How old are you currently, and how old were you when you were at 900+ ?

We need to see your bio or free testosterone to truely know what is going on.

Estradiol and SHBG appear to be hogging up your free testosterone. Ideally estradiol will be at 20 with a deviation of 10, at the MOST (IE, 10-30 is "optimal" range.)

Your symptoms mean more then numbers, in reality though. I would assume the first step is to lower the Estradiol, and then recheck bloodwork. Checking thyroid, LH/FSH..etc can never hurt too.
 

smc252

Member
Awards
1
  • Established
I am now 48 years old, and my Total test was at 900+ at age 43-45. Also Had FSH and LH checked and they were both around 5.0, which I'm told is good. My free testosterone % was low-1.09% range 1.10-2.80%. But GP said not to worry since total was at around 600.

I am not really far from Dr. John Crisler's location and was going top call his office to attempt to become a new patient, however, I figured that with a total testosterone of 600 I would not be considered a candidate. Although, as I stated just a few years ago my total was 40% higher and more importantly I have every symptom of andropause....I feel like a shell of the man I was 5 years ago.
Well for a 48yr old, your total test levels are pretty good. ****, they're twice as high as mine! :)

Did you only get a % for free test or an actual number? You should be closer to 2% free. Either way, this is out of your GP's league.

Dr. Crisler is awesome, he does more then JUST testosterone. He can help streghten you out, for sure. If I was closer, I would have seen him a long time ago for all my hormone issues. Give Kim a call!

I too feel like a shell of my former self, but there is help, so don't give up!
 
JanSz

JanSz

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
In the last two years I have suffered all the symtoms of male andropause, loss of concentration, lack of energy and enthusiasm, loss in muscle mass, and most importantly, for a married man, absolutely zero libido. I recently went to my GP and he ran complete tests, CBC, Lipids, Blood Sugar, etc. Everything was fine. I requested a Total Testosterone, SHGB, Estradiol. In the past my total test always ran between 950-1000. Recent results:

Total Test-613 range 250-1100
Estradiol- 43 Range 13-54
SHGB- 56- over range of 8-46

I was quite concerned about all three of these. First, my testosterone has declined by about 40% from what it always was, Much of what I read states that that can be devestating to someone who normally on the high end. Also, I've been reading that estrogen should be best kept at around 20 for libido, and my SHGB is way to high.

Well, final thoughts by my GP were that my testosterone is fine and I'm just getting older so a 40% decline is normal. He says that estrogen is good in that it helps prevent bone density loss and other health issues and my number is fine. Lastly, he said not to even worry about the SHGB. Seemed like he really was not well versed on the area of anti-aging and andropause. Also, he said TRT causes prostate cancer.

I'm I a potential candidate for TRT? Anyone help?

Thanks.
I am now 48 years old, and my Total test was at 900+ at age 43-45. Also Had FSH and LH checked and they were both around 5.0, which I'm told is good. My free testosterone % was low-1.09% range 1.10-2.80%. But GP said not to worry since total was at around 600.

I am not really far from Dr. John Crisler's location and was going top call his office to attempt to become a new patient, however, I figured that with a total testosterone of 600 I would not be considered a candidate. Although, as I stated just a few years ago my total was 40% higher and more importantly I have every symptom of andropause....I feel like a shell of the man I was 5 years ago.
#1, it is good to know someone's age but it is poor excuse to use it for no-action.

Post your known, relatively recent tests that you have available.
I have a looong list for testing, you may want to keep it in mind.

It is (supposedly) better to correct imbalances in certain order
Adrenals
Thyroid (eat enough Armour Thyroid until FreeT3=4.0(2.30-4.20) ng/dL
sugar, insulin, Hemoglobin A1C (less than 4.6%)
gonads (get Free and Boiavailable T & E in upper range as defined by Quest Diagnostics)
Cholesterol (180-200)
then come details to tweak
----------------------------------------------------------------
From the three numbers you posted
First act to lower your SHBG
Get Chrysin cream from compounding pharmacy or (what I do)
Advanced Natural Prostate Formula With 5-Loxin, 60 Softgels
Advanced Natural Prostate Formula with 5-Loxin®
Super Miraforte With Max Strength Chrysin, 120 Caps
Super MiraForte with Maximum Strength Chrysin

With your FSH and LH it looks like your testis are working at their max.
While supplementing with testosterone you want to keep the testis working.
I will guess your T dose first, then you blood test it after 2 months and adjust making next guess.
Your HCG dose will stay more or less constant.
so, assuming every third day SubQ injections of T&hcg around navel

Novarel (HCG) 500iu, if diluted with 1mL, 50units on insuline syringe
Depo-Testosterone (200mg/mL) 21 units on insuline syringe

When staring cold, to get stable T levels quicker
Day1-- double dose of T=42 units plus 500iu HCG
Day2--one dose of T=21 no HCG
Day3--no shots
Day4--single dose of T=21, 500iu (first "normal" dosing)
Day4--no shots
Day5--no shots
Day6--single dose of T=21, 500iu
continue E3D schedule, blood test after 2 months
I am purposely adding additional month so other hormones may have a chance to stabilize

Needles
3532041 Monoject Ultrafine U-100 Insulin Syringe 29 Gauge 3/10cc 1/2inch Needle 100/box $15.99
Monoject Ultrafine U-100 Insulin Syringe 29 Gauge 3/10cc 1/2inch Needle 100/box

You could use this for T and HCG or you can go with thinnest available for HCG
say
Easy Touch U-100 Insulin Syringe 31 Gauge 3/10cc 5/16 inch Short Needle 100/Box

Easy Touch U-100 Insulin Syringe 31 Gauge 3/10cc 5/16 inch Short Needle 100/Box Sale Price: $13.99
-------------------------------------------
Your estradiol looks high, but I would wait and see until next blood test.
Your other estrogens are screwed up to, I bet.
Use (what I use with good results):
Tmg (Trimethylglycine), 500 Mg 180 Tablets
TMG-- 2pills daily
Dual-Action Cruciferous Vegetable Extract With Resveratrol & Cat's Claw, 60 Vegetarian Capsules
6 pills daily Dual-Action Cruciferous Vegetable Extract With Resveratrol & Cat's Claw
you may note that LEF recomends 1 pill/165# body weight,
I got no action on that small dose, you may go with 4 pills first.
-------------------------------------------
General advice
Super Omega-3 Epa/Dha With Sesame Lignans & Olive Fruit Extract, 120 Softgels
Super Omega-3 EPA/DHA with Sesame Lignans & Olive Fruit Extract (Molecularly Distilled)
2+2 pills

Primal Defense, 900 Mg 90 Caps Garden Of Life
Primal Defense™ is a whole food probiotic blend utilizing 14 species of probiotics and homeostatic soil organisms tm
-------------------------------------------
LEF have Top 10
Top 10 Steps For Achieving Optimal Health
I do not work for LEF, I just think that they are good.
I am not a doctor.
----------------------------------------------------
Edited 6/29/07
I have a second thoughts.
You are strating with relatively high T levels, problem is that it gets bounded to SHBG that you have too much.
We definitely do not want to interupt testis production.
This possibly can happen with E3D shots of HCG.
Possibly better would be E2D system
T=100/7*2/200=0.143mL=15 units on insuline syringe
HCG 250iu
Both shots one day, next day free of shots.
Idea being that you would have a lot T in your system, natural plus injected, other than providing higher BAT and FreeT one would expect that it would also lower some of your high SHBG.
 

hardasnails1973

Registered User
Awards
1
  • Established
Well for a 48yr old, your total test levels are pretty good. ****, they're twice as high as mine! :)

Did you only get a % for free test or an actual number? You should be closer to 2% free. Either way, this is out of your GP's league.

Dr. Crisler is awesome, he does more then JUST testosterone. He can help streghten you out, for sure. If I was closer, I would have seen him a long time ago for all my hormone issues. Give Kim a call!

I too feel like a shell of my former self, but there is help, so don't give up!
TRT may not be the way to go. I can bank that they may be alterations in estrogen metabolism or metabolites that could be causing major blockages in specific pathways. Under methyation of the liver would cause decrease methyation of estrogen and possible toxic build up of estrogen metabolites which could be doing the same thing as e2 binding to the recptor sites of other hormones ..You may just need some DHEA and pregenlone to feed the pathways. If dht ios elevated then preg will help reduce this since progesterone and dht are antagonistic.
 

Undone

New member
Awards
0
I am now 48 years old, and my Total test was at 900+ at age 43-45. Also Had FSH and LH checked and they were both around 5.0, which I'm told is good. My free testosterone % was low-1.09% range 1.10-2.80%. But GP said not to worry since total was at around 600.

I am not really far from Dr. John Crisler's location and was going top call his office to attempt to become a new patient, however, I figured that with a total testosterone of 600 I would not be considered a candidate. Although, as I stated just a few years ago my total was 40% higher and more importantly I have every symptom of andropause....I feel like a shell of the man I was 5 years ago.
GET ANOTHER DOCTOR ASAP! I was in your same situation less than three months ago so I know exactly how you feel. If you stay with the same doctor, you will not see any improvement. He obviously has no interest in treating your symptoms, only the numbers. Meanwhile, your QOL sucks.

I found a doctor near me who is moving his practice toward specializing in HRT and I thank God for guiding me to him. I feel like I did 10 years ago. Take my advice - make an appointment with DR. John. Get your life back. It will be the best money you ever spent.
 

hardasnails1973

Registered User
Awards
1
  • Established
We would have to look for the other causes of your symptoms. But, just as some men do very well with T in the 300's, there are those who just need more. There is much work being done in this area, looking at variances in androgen receptor actions, for instance.
From my probing around and digging into deep thought I beleive that armidex, other anti estogen will be the thing of the past. I believe that manipulation of estrogen metabolism is going to be the wave of the futre for ridding body of estrogen. I can speculate but I have a strong idea that when a mans estrone to estrodial ratio is off I believe in the future this will be a sign of iodine deficiency as i have found much evidence showing that there is conversion malfunction from androstediene into estrone because of this reason. As backed by 2 people that have seen mariano he has witnessed the same thing in just 2 recent cases which indivudals I have both spoken with before there visits. I have also written about this several times before in previous posts as well. Breast cancer in man and women work pretty much on the same principles and if replenishing iodine in females can lower chances then hopefully medical community will ge off there asses and start looking into the similarities in the man also involving the prostrate as well. Could iodine some how play a role in BPH i beleive it can due to some how affecting estrogen binding in the receptors
 

aculpep

Member
Awards
0
Undone,

Did you end up going on TRT? I same the same problem also with a TT=765 but FreeT very low. Noone can answer whether I need to go on TRT also. Arimidex and dimm hasn't done anything so far. I hear a lot of people talk about how lowering E2 only is way to go but have yet to read where it fixed anyone's problem. A lot of theory only. Very frustrating. I thought of going to Dr. John recently also but then asked myself if it's a waste of money since my TT is so high.


GET ANOTHER DOCTOR ASAP! I was in your same situation less than three months ago so I know exactly how you feel. If you stay with the same doctor, you will not see any improvement. He obviously has no interest in treating your symptoms, only the numbers. Meanwhile, your QOL sucks.

I found a doctor near me who is moving his practice toward specializing in HRT and I thank God for guiding me to him. I feel like I did 10 years ago. Take my advice - make an appointment with DR. John. Get your life back. It will be the best money you ever spent.
 

Undone

New member
Awards
0
Undone,

Did you end up going on TRT? I same the same problem also with a TT=765 but FreeT very low. Noone can answer whether I need to go on TRT also. Arimidex and dimm hasn't done anything so far. I hear a lot of people talk about how lowering E2 only is way to go but have yet to read where it fixed anyone's problem. A lot of theory only. Very frustrating. I thought of going to Dr. John recently also but then asked myself if it's a waste of money since my TT is so high.
Yes, I just started TRT. I would urge you to go to Dr. John because he if anyone can diagnose your problem, my money is on him. With TT=765, you may not need TRT, but with that number your FT should be higher. He will know which tests to run and diagnose the proper treatment from there.
 

plymouth city

Banned
Awards
1
  • Established
Undone,

Did you end up going on TRT? I same the same problem also with a TT=765 but FreeT very low. Noone can answer whether I need to go on TRT also. Arimidex and dimm hasn't done anything so far. I hear a lot of people talk about how lowering E2 only is way to go but have yet to read where it fixed anyone's problem. A lot of theory only. Very frustrating. I thought of going to Dr. John recently also but then asked myself if it's a waste of money since my TT is so high.
I was thinking the exact same thing.

TT = 731 FT = 23.9 E2 = 43.

I have low IGF-1 at 130, but its a moot point anyways cause there is zero chance I can afford GH therapy right now. Down the road a few years after college, yes, now, no.

I was thinking maybe the only thing that can be done for me is preg cream script and a recomendation for DIM + TMG. I have the latter, preg cream script would be nice but I can get preg cream legally, possibly not as cheap.
 
KSman

KSman

Member
Awards
1
  • Established
In the last two years I have suffered all the symtoms of male andropause, loss of concentration, lack of energy and enthusiasm, loss in muscle mass, and most importantly, for a married man, absolutely zero libido. I recently went to my GP and he ran complete tests, CBC, Lipids, Blood Sugar, etc. Everything was fine. I requested a Total Testosterone, SHGB, Estradiol. In the past my total test always ran between 950-1000. Recent results:

Total Test-613 range 250-1100
Estradiol- 43 Range 13-54
SHGB- 56- over range of 8-46

I was quite concerned about all three of these. First, my testosterone has declined by about 40% from what it always was, Much of what I read states that that can be devestating to someone who normally on the high end. Also, I've been reading that estrogen should be best kept at around 20 for libido, and my SHGB is way to high.

Well, final thoughts by my GP were that my testosterone is fine and I'm just getting older so a 40% decline is normal. He says that estrogen is good in that it helps prevent bone density loss and other health issues and my number is fine. Lastly, he said not to even worry about the SHGB. Seemed like he really was not well versed on the area of anti-aging and andropause. Also, he said TRT causes prostate cancer.

I'm I a potential candidate for TRT? Anyone help?

Thanks.
The E is too high, which increases SHBG which in turn lowers FT. What left of the FT finds E blocking its action at T receptors. The elevated E as a feedback signal is leading to less LH and thus T is lower. It is all classic. You need to be on anastrozole to lower your E. Optimal is considered to be in the 17-20 range. 1mg/wk may not be enough. You will need E2 tests to guide your dosing changes. With the anastrozole your libido might pick up nicely in a week or two. Other changes in mood, energy etc can take 2 or 3 months to fully develop.

You do not need that level of E for bone health. Young guys have low E and strong bones. Higher levels of E will cause prostate problems.

With lower E, you will find it easier to loose weight.

Don't bother with T testing or SHBG until you get your E situation settled.
 
JanSz

JanSz

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
I was thinking the exact same thing.

TT = 731 FT = 23.9 E2 = 43.

I have low IGF-1 at 130, but its a moot point anyways cause there is zero chance I can afford GH therapy right now. Down the road a few years after college, yes, now, no.

I was thinking maybe the only thing that can be done for me is preg cream script and a recomendation for DIM + TMG. I have the latter, preg cream script would be nice but I can get preg cream legally, possibly not as cheap.
Preg cream without script is not only a s*** but it cost more.
 
JanSz

JanSz

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
Quote:
Originally Posted by JanSz
Preg cream without script is not only a s*** but it cost more.

Problem is you have to bath in the stuf to get anything out of it LOL
Please clarify what are you saying.
What works best for you?
------------------------------------------

My position is that the best way to get pregnenolone into blood stream is by using prescription compounded pregnenolone cream.
I use 100mg/1gram cream, 1gram/day.
Not sure if that is correct dose, after my last blood test I dropped DHEA an pregnenolone pills but kept my 1gram/day dose.

I have been using lots of DHEA pills (350mg/day) and 100mg pregnenolone pills with little change of DHEAs in the blood.
After I started Pregnenolone cream my DHEAs went 3x over the range.

I know pills (DHEA and pregnenolone) are of little help for me.

I am not sure of quality of over the counter pregnenolone cream.
 

hardasnails1973

Registered User
Awards
1
  • Established
Quote:
Originally Posted by JanSz
Preg cream without script is not only a s*** but it cost more.



Please clarify what are you saying.
What works best for you?
------------------------------------------

My position is that the best way to get pregnenolone into blood stream is by using prescription compounded pregnenolone cream.
I use 100mg/1gram cream, 1gram/day.
Not sure if that is correct dose, after my last blood test I dropped DHEA an pregnenolone pills but kept my 1gram/day dose.

I have been using lots of DHEA pills (350mg/day) and 100mg pregnenolone pills with little change of DHEAs in the blood.
After I started Pregnenolone cream my DHEAs went 3x over the range.

I know pills (DHEA and pregnenolone) are of little help for me.

I am not sure of quality of over the counter pregnenolone cream.
how much does it cost wher you get yours compounded at ?
Because phamacist where i went to has no clue on it..
 
JanSz

JanSz

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
professorJohn

searching for a reson for your high SHBG

Post your
thyroid testing data, make sure you include
FreeT3
FreeT4

also
insuline
glucose
Hemoglobin A1C

I think also liver testing


===============================================
http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=1928853

SHBG levels correlated negatively with fasting glucose (r = - 0.55; P < 0.0001) and hemoglobin A[1c] (r = -0.38; P = 0.02) and positively with insulin sensitivity (S; r = 0.65; P = 0.003 and r = 0.63; P = 0.007 in men and women, respectively), but not with insulin secretion.
==============================================
http://www.infertilityphysician.com/androgen/intro.html
Of equal importance is the fact that a low SHBG level implies an elevated serum insulin level.
It now seems fairly certain that a low SHBG concentration in your blood stream is the biological
equivalent of hyperinsulinemia and insulin resistance. We have known for some time
that a low SHBG level is a risk factor for cardiovascular disease.
================================================
 
KSman

KSman

Member
Awards
1
  • Established
how much does it cost wher you get yours compounded at ?
Because pharmacist where i went to has no clue on it..
EDITED BY DR CRISLER: I APPRECIATE THE THOUGHT, BUT DO NOT WANT A COMPOUNDER ADVERTISED HERE WHO DOES NOT MEET MY EXACTING CRITERIA.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

hardasnails1973

Registered User
Awards
1
  • Established
Please elaborate on the first bold.

As for the second, if it affects estrogens, then certainly the possibility is there.
Iodine and the Breast Reference Materials - Part 1

Editor's Note: The 2005 study below found that ovarian estrogen production increases during
an iodine-deficient state, while changes in the estrogen receptors in iodine-deficient breasts
make them more sensitive to circulating estrogens (Eskin above). A diet low in iodine can lead
to a hyperestrogen state with high estrone and estradiol and a low estriol to estrone ratio that
can lead to cancer (Stadel above).
Albiet this does relate to estrogen in females the main point that actaully is proven is that breast tissue in male and females are pretty much the same as for estrone and estrodial

Ask your self this if japensese have the highest rate of iodine consumption and lowerest breast cancer there has to be some kind link. Since starting ioderol at 50 mgs a day I feel as my body e2 is really dropping and actually going why too low. i Think the simple link between iodine and breast cancers and other cancers is it undiscovered ability to act to convert estrone to estriol which I have ran across several people that had urine test done and they have had the same exact readings and have been suggested the same thing by mariano. He calls iodine poor man's DIM and it even has greater advantages over DIM in the body. The research is out there especaiily in cancer and I think it goes both ways. Why is there a rise of male breast cancer?. Same reason why mostlikely women's .RDA removed all iodine from foods and added bromine in the early 70's GREAT MOVE HUH.. I will dig up some more research from clincal studies. But given metabolism of estrogen is probably the same as in males and females I think this is going to be one of the biggest areas to be explored. Posibllyin the future in your practice adding the iodine loading test for as little as it cost is going to add a whole dimension to things.

Ok Question
If we are getting bombarded with all these so called xenoestrogens from the food and enviroment then what receptors can they lock into to. Meaning if you have xeno estrogen plugging up e2. e1 receptors and you have adquete e2 in your serum is it possible that one can be e2 deficient even though that there is sufficent e2 present because the xenoestrogen are binding into the receptors and lord knows if they are even activating them or just plugging ther receptors and making it impossible for e2 to actually do its job. Reason I bring this to attention is because having homocystein levels below 5 is just as bad as having them above 8 or 9 because it causes abnormlaites in liver detoxification (similar to austic childern) and e2 defieincy are known to cause hypomethyation which can really screw up peoples DNA. My homocysteins have been 3.9 4.4 which makes me suspocious of e2 defiecncy because my all the opposites effects of excessive e2 in my lipid profile on other hand i also have signs of excessive estrogen (high shbg). How long does it take to see a change in shbg to be seen in a blood test 3-4 months? So with that said focus on getting e2 in check and shbg should fall back in place over time...
 

pmgamer18

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
I agree on this just read this link.
http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/89/3/1174
and this
http://www.medibolics.com/ArimidexBoostsTestosterone.htm
The E is too high, which increases SHBG which in turn lowers FT. What left of the FT finds E blocking its action at T receptors. The elevated E as a feedback signal is leading to less LH and thus T is lower. It is all classic. You need to be on anastrozole to lower your E. Optimal is considered to be in the 17-20 range. 1mg/wk may not be enough. You will need E2 tests to guide your dosing changes. With the anastrozole your libido might pick up nicely in a week or two. Other changes in mood, energy etc can take 2 or 3 months to fully develop.

You do not need that level of E for bone health. Young guys have low E and strong bones. Higher levels of E will cause prostate problems.

With lower E, you will find it easier to loose weight.

Don't bother with T testing or SHBG until you get your E situation settled.
 

hardasnails1973

Registered User
Awards
1
  • Established
Would you share your criteria?
Posting "unreputable" sources on the board. Thats why i asked in PM because I had an idea it was that one. Dr J has posted several times about menitoning that one place to a few people..
 

pmgamer18

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
Here is a link to some good info on DIM I came accross today.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3,3'-Diindolylmethane

3,3'-Diindolylmethane
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search

Chemical structure of 3,3'-Diindolylmethane3,3'-Diindolylmethane or DIM is derived from the digestion of indole-3-carbinol, found in Brassica vegetables such as broccoli and cauliflower. DIM is in clinical trials as a treatment for numerous forms of cancer. It is being investigated as a potential treatment for a variety of viral infections and anti-biotic resistant bacteria, as well.

DIM is currently used to treat Recurring Respiratory Papillomatosis, a rare respiratory disease with tumors in the upper respiratory tracts caused by the Human Papilloma Virus. DIM is additionally in Phase III clinical trials for Cervical dysplasia, a pre-cancerous condition also caused by the Human Papilloma Virus.

DIM has the biological properties listed in the chart below. Because of its various potent anti-cancer properties, the National Cancer Institute of the United States has begun clinical trials of DIM as a therapeutic for numerous forms of cancer. Due to its innate immune modulating properties (potentiation of Interferon-Gamma receptors and production), DIM is also under investigation as a treatment for a variety of viral infections and anti-biotic resistant bacteria. As DIM has been demonstrated to synergize with Interferon-Gamma in the potentiation of the MHC-I Complex, it is currently also under investigation as an adjuvant to IFN-G treatment models for both cancer and viral infections such as HIV, HPV and Hepatitis.

The reputation of Brassica vegetables as medicinal plants rests in part on the activities of Diindolylmethane. DIM is currently available as a dietary supplement.

The Diindolylmethane Information Resource Center at the University of California, Berkeley provides regularly updated information on recent scientific discoveries regarding this phytochemical from Brassica vegetables.


Biological Activities of 3,3'-Diindolylmethane

[edit] References
Hong, Chibo, Firestone, Gary L., Bjeldanes, Leonard F. (2000). 3,3'-Diindolylmethane(DIM), a dietary indole, has multiple cell suppressive effects on MCF-7, human breast cancer cells. Presented at the 40th Annual Meeting of American Society for Cell Biology, December 9-13, 2000, San Francisco. Availability verified July 30, 2005.
DIM at the Comparative Toxicogenomics Database prototype. Availability verified July 29, 2005.
Riby JE, Xue L, Chatterji U, Bjeldanes EL, Firestone GL, Bjeldanes LF. Activation and potentiation of interferon-gamma signaling by 3,3'-diindolylmethane in MCF-7 breast cancer cells. Molecular Pharmacology. 2006 Feb;69(2):430-9. Department of Nutritional Sciences and Toxicology, University of California, Berkeley, 94720-3104, USA. [1]

[edit] External links
Links to external chemical sources
Diindolylmethane Information Resource Center - UC Berkeley: http://www.diindolylmethane.org

This biochemistry article is a stub. You can help Wikipedia by expanding it.

This article about a heterocyclic compound is a stub. You can help Wikipedia by expanding it.

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3%2C3%27-Diindolylmethane"
 
KSman

KSman

Member
Awards
1
  • Established
I think that is very clever of marianco.

It does concern me that reducing 16-OHE with I-3-C/DIM also lowers "prohormone" of Estriol. If picking up iodine encourages conversion of 16-OHE to Estriol, it functions similarly to how we use TMG to wash 4-OHE downstream to 4-methoxyestrone (via COMT).

Sure enough, there are other benefits to I-3-C/DIM; and potential detriments. We have a lot of work to do.

I am getting close to a blank recommendation of iodine/iodide supplementation.
What sources of iodine are typically safe and allow the body to dump excess that it does not need? Many use sea salt these days, that has little iodine, its in the sea water but not the sea salt.
 

hardasnails1973

Registered User
Awards
1
  • Established
What sources of iodine are typically safe and allow the body to dump excess that it does not need? Many use sea salt these days, that has little iodine, its in the sea water but not the sea salt.
Depedsn on severity of the defieincy. I got iodine loading test done and actuallty the spot and load were almost identical, I was only 40% saturated vs >90% so i got a ways to go and Dr flectr said this way thyroid medicine neverworked for me and was only draining my iodine supply as I was using it. Get tested its only like 100 bucks and is completely worth it
 

wildfox

Member
Awards
1
  • Established
From my probing around and digging into deep thought I beleive that armidex, other anti estogen will be the thing of the past. I believe that manipulation of estrogen metabolism is going to be the wave of the futre for ridding body of estrogen. I can speculate but I have a strong idea that when a mans estrone to estrodial ratio is off I believe in the future this will be a sign of iodine deficiency as i have found much evidence showing that there is conversion malfunction from androstediene into estrone because of this reason. As backed by 2 people that have seen mariano he has witnessed the same thing in just 2 recent cases which indivudals I have both spoken with before there visits. I have also written about this several times before in previous posts as well. Breast cancer in man and women work pretty much on the same principles and if replenishing iodine in females can lower chances then hopefully medical community will ge off there asses and start looking into the similarities in the man also involving the prostrate as well. Could iodine some how play a role in BPH i beleive it can due to some how affecting estrogen binding in the receptors
Could this manipulation be done through diet?
 

hardasnails1973

Registered User
Awards
1
  • Established
Could this manipulation be done through diet?
Not at the quanities that we would need to replace the specific amount. For me It will take me 6 months at 50 mgs of iodoral a day to get back to saturation level then 1 tablet a day to main tain it
 

hardasnails1973

Registered User
Awards
1
  • Established
If and when you begin loading iodine, drinks lots of water, and make sure you urinate frequently. That iodine is going to knock toxic metals (including ever more common bromine) from your body, and I don't want them sitting in your bladder. No studies--just common sense.
Yep because since stopping iodoral for a few days my urine is clear and when i started it again it was dirty yellow and stinks like DIM does. It always happens fist thing in the morning. I beginning to wonder if DIM can actually aggravate prostrate problems since it does lower the e3 which is protective estrogen..It yanks out mercury as well which I had an over load via DMSA challege (chelation) identified it as excessive amounts. Be interesting to see heavy metal urine test with 50 mgs ioderal see what is really takes out..i am even thinking about adding in some sun chlorella as well to protest the intestinal tract from heavy metal over load
 

Similar threads


Top