HCG and TRT

[professorJohn]

I recently read information written by Dr. Eugene Shippen stating that the first line of attack for male menopause is treatment using either clomid or HCG, and only adding testosterone after the fact if no clinical results are obtained. However, others suggest immediate TRT. Can anyone comment on this. thanks

 

[hardasnails1973]

I recently read information written by Dr. Eugene Shippen stating that the first line of attack for male menopause is treatment using either clomid or HCG, and only adding testosterone after the fact if no clinical results are obtained. However, others suggest immediate TRT. Can anyone comment on this. thanks

just say him today and he just reinforced what you said..if your balls are working why shut them down with excessive testosterone? Why not just send the signal if one has a pituitary malfunction. Sinus infection, gum disease, toxins can also play a role in pituitary problems as well as well as head drama. more so hcg over clomid..Hint "lower more frequent the better increase in order to hit a target range or once you feeling better." "more is not better, but less and make it more available to the body." There comes a point when one cross the benefit/risk ratio.

 

[professorJohn]

Makes sense. The reason I asked is that I've read info from Dr. John that contradicts this. He feels HCG as a primary agent to attack the problem is not the best route?

 

[hardasnails1973]

Makes sense. The reason I asked is that I've read info from Dr. John that contradicts this. He feels HCG as a primary agent to attack the problem is not the best route?

Well with out giving to much info there are ways to actually increase pulse of testosterone during the day along with hcg or other modalities. Envigal would now what I am talking about. Differnt drs treat different ways and this may be the wave of the future. Who knows. It comes under the philsophy "if they are not broke don't fix them or in this term shut them down "

 

[Headdoc]

Well with out giving to much info there are ways to actually increase pulse of testosterone during the day along with hcg or other modalities. Envigal would now what I am talking about. Differnt drs treat different ways and this may be the wave of the future. Who knows. It comes under the philsophy "if they are not broke don't fix them or in this term shut them down "

I have often wondered if indeed both experts are correct. Perhaps their clientele differ in some way? Ideally, you'd like to see some direct comparison of subjects with comparable clinical histories and lab values. Another point, Shippen mentions in his book that the HCG is a attempt to jump start the axis. It's not a permanent intervention. This is the point that lead me to believe that the differences in population may account for the apparent, but not real differences in their approaches.

 

[hardasnails1973]

I have often wondered if indeed both experts are correct. Perhaps their clientele differ in some way? Ideally, you'd like to see some direct comparison of subjects with comparable clinical histories and lab values. Another point, Shippen mentions in his book that the HCG is a attempt to jump start the axis. It's not a permanent intervention. This is the point that lead me to believe that the differences in population may account for the apparent, but not real differences in their approaches.

I think given the fact a person age and clinical case is going to dicates which route each dr goes. But my freind did ask the dr and ask him he would have to be on it for rest of his life. No answer was given. SO I can only speculate that after a given amount of time when target range is hit with out crossing over the thresh hold that it may be discontinued and to see if his levels hold. He sees him in 3 months again but in mean time the patient and lab test and how he feels dicate when that thresh hold is . may after 3 months he may have him discontinue and labwork folowed up ever 2 weeks to verify what is going on to see if he is holding or not. Even though his pregnelone was low on urine test he did not seem bothered by it. Dr shippen said "you have hormones so obiously you have the building blocks so pregenelone is not needed". His dhea was low and never even mentioned but by supplying hcg that is going to increase progesterone and raise dhea to normal levels.

 

[hardasnails1973]

Dr. Shippen uses Rhein Consulting Labs for his urine panel, I think, as I do. We do not test pregnenolone on them (and it is a worthless assay on serum, too).

I use HCG, DHEA and pregenenolone (usually) to "backfill" the pathways we have disrupted with out TRT.

you like to reinforce the foundation as you are building your house .

 

[hardasnails1973]

Well said! Can I use that line?

Actualy, the "foundation" was weak to begin with, and we blew it out when we added three more stories.

Of course :cheers:
DR would you be interesting in running an experiemnt on some of your guys with altered estrogen metaoblites. Run 50 mgs of iodoral for 30 days and then restest them to see if there is any changes in the metabolites. I think the results will be uttering impressive from research I have been diggin up. I think you wll even gett better results then with DIm and will also get added benefits for thyroid and adrenals as well..
in order to do this they need to have optimal adrenal functioin because excessive iodine can increase thyroid and actually cause adrenals to crash if they are out of balance to begin with. Or proper way would to do a spot iodine test prior to verify there iodine content. From every one i talked to spot iodine is pretty much accurate to the saturation point of 24 hours. You would need guys that are iodine defeinct as well as alltered estrogen metabolites to qulaify. I am sure that will not be hard to find ..

 

[SoMdHunter]

Sinus infection, gum disease, toxins can also play a role in pituitary problems as well as well as head drama.

Most interesting. Never even heard of that. Do you have any data indicating this? I'd be most interested in reading the findings of any studies done on this.

 

[BigJimCalhoun]

Dr. Shippen uses Rhein Consulting Labs for his urine panel, .

Speaking of which, Rhein provides a nice wide-mouth collection container. It makes it very convenient for the 24 hour collection.

No need to use a funnel like the last one I had that used a jug like the 1 gal vinegar from the supermarket.

 

[Headdoc]

I would add that if I am seeing over the horizon, it is only by standing on the shoulders of those who went before me.

this sounds like some sort of Zen. Great expression!