opportunity to visit dr. shippen

[hardasnails1973]

Be about 45 minutes to an hour early for appointment. It takes that long to fill out his paper work (longer if you have memory and concentration problems) He does not sit around and yap the man jumps right into it and does not waste no time at all getting to the point. He can crack some good jokes, but is very blunt and to the point and is very understanding about you getting better. One things he looks down upon is these antiaging places where they raise your testosterone to high limits and use counting armidex to counter act this. He saids "its to aggressive of a treatment and there are ways around it". He basically said there is a threshold where the body has were it starts to start pushing back by increasing estrogen, down regularing both estrogen and testosterone receptor cites and anything over 1000 range is where this tends to occur. He beleives that free testosterone is worthless majority of the time because labs can not really test for it. and goes by his shbg/ TT chart to display bioavailable testosterone which is the more essential number there TT. One surprising thing is that he doesn't beleive all this hype in having shbg under 30 but rather between (30-50), Dr shippen also noted that shbg in the lower 20's could even be signs of predispotion inuslin resistance as well and may not be healthy and guys that are in the 30-40 range are usually the lean ones walking around. He does not like to start patience off right on testosterone injection but rather to see how they respond to clincal trial of way to stimulate the body and see if the brain is producing the signals and how the balls are responding. One of the big things he beleives in is way is known as "pulsing testoserone" and doesn't use creams or injections unless there is a need to. Due to privacy acts of my freind i have left out the protocol on how this is to be done. It was nice for him to let me sit on the visit. just from information I provided i hope it gives you some new insights to alot of the fallacy that are out there about people being so wrapped up in number games. I got to breifly talk to him and he told me 1100 was way too high even though you are in normal ranges and that after a certain number your body starts just to increasing estrogen in relationship to testosterone. So the 50 mgs every 3 days will be dropped because its doing more harm then good. He said on a good week average person produces 50mgs. Athletes up to 70mgs of actually testosterone.

 

[engival]

i just saw shippen 2 hours ago

 

[hardasnails1973]

i just saw shippen 2 hours ago

We were there for about 2 hours and left about 130.
PM me

 

[jaydee]

What is meant by "down regulating receptor cites"?

 

[wildfox]

Is his protocol and Crisler's published TRT for success similar at all?

 

[hardasnails1973]

Is his protocol and Crisler's published TRT for success similar at all?

Different strokes different folks depends on where the malfunction is occuring with in the endocrine system and alotof other varaibles. No one case is the same so protocols are always constantly being modified. There is no magic recipee books for TRT.

 

[hardasnails1973]

Dr. Shippen loathes these clinics where everyone just gets jacked up on T. That is because he practices medicine.

High insulin, such as with DMII, lowers SHBG.

Low SHBG seems more problematic than high SHBG.

Definitely if we can find the cause of the low T, and cure it, then all are better off.

Thats what i am saying. Instead of drs using making you feel like lab rat or putting symptoms on a dart board and treating which every one it falls on rather then looking for the root cause. I spent 3 years a dog chasing its tail when the first thing I went to endo to see for was not low testosterone, but adrenal fatigue and ending up with a trip to see the shrink and prescription for paxil :wtf: My freind who was off his rocker wanted to commit suicede went to see mariano and when we was finished he called me and told me that he it was adrenal/thyroid and he never prescribe him an anti depressant he was totally in disbeleive. Mariano stressed that major of psychological problems are driven from endocrine imbalances and addressing a symptoms rather then the cause will not solve the primary problem..

 

[anyman]

I am VERY intrigues by your comment on Insulin and low SHBG

Dr. Shippen loathes these clinics where everyone just gets jacked up on T. That is because he practices medicine.

High insulin, such as with DMII, lowers SHBG.

Low SHBG seems more problematic than high SHBG.

Definitely if we can find the cause of the low T, and cure it, then all are better off.

I am beginning to suspect I have signs of early insulin resistance, even though I exercise, generally eat well and am not overweight (I am 6' and weigh aout 215-could stand to lose the 15-20 I've gained in the last 2 years since all this BS started).

Could this by why I have such low shbg (last test was 11) and "failed" the clomid test?

Assuming it's true, is this a "chicken and egg" problem? How do I control insulin if my T is low? COnversely, with low T, how can one control insulin?

I can't exercise 24/7 and generally eat well, so what is there left? Cut out EVERYTHING? Not even one beer and a littel pizza on a Friday night? Eat dirt and rocks?

Damn, this whole thing is REALLY frustrating......

 

[hardasnails1973]

I am beginning to suspect I have signs of early insulin resistance, even though I exercise, generally eat well and am not overweight (I am 6' and weigh aout 215-could stand to lose the 15-20 I've gained in the last 2 years since all this BS started).

Could this by why I have such low shbg (last test was 11) and "failed" the clomid test?

Assuming it's true, is this a "chicken and egg" problem? How do I control insulin if my T is low? COnversely, with low T, how can one control insulin?

I can't exercise 24/7 and generally eat well, so what is there left? Cut out EVERYTHING? Not even one beer and a littel pizza on a Friday night? Eat dirt and rocks?

Damn, this whole thing is REALLY frustrating......

Have faith in your dr and stop guessing things. It takes time to rebalance the body. After addressing hormone issues it may resolve the inuslin resistance problem. By doing 2 things at once you will not know what is doing what.

400 mgs gymneema 3 times a day at 75% active ingrediatns
standard process has the best one !!
but consult dr first !!

 

[anyman]

Logically, you are 100% right, but I find myself constantly agitated (m).

Have faith in your dr and stop guessing things. It takes time to rebalance the body. After addressing hormone issues it may resolve the inuslin resistance problem. By doing 2 things at once you will not know what is doing what.

400 mgs gymneema 3 times a day at 75% active ingrediatns
standard process has the best one !!
but consult dr first !!

Your're right about all the guessing, but after riding this roller coaster I'm ready to get off and live a normal life. That's my problem- I've always been a bit "Type A" and don't stop till I've got a solution. I also reluctantly admit to being increasingly envious of people who don't have to deal with this pointless BS.

I've learned quite a bit here, which has educated me to the point that I can ask semi-intelligent questions. That's how I found Drs John and Shippen. At least they give us hope. How many guys take whatever nonsense some local urologist or endo says at face value, only to be jacked up on T without regard to the underlying problem?

 

[hardasnails1973]

I am type A too !!

Your're right about all the guessing, but after riding this roller coaster I'm ready to get off and live a normal life. That's my problem- I've always been a bit "Type A" and don't stop till I've got a solution. I also reluctantly admit to being increasingly envious of people who don't have to deal with this pointless BS.

As you can see I will not stop untill I come up with a reason why and my brain is always constantly spinning about ideas and how can I make things better more effienct, what are the drs over looking that is so simple its been sitting there stairing me in the face for so long..

I've learned quite a bit here, which has educated me to the point that I can ask semi-intelligent questions. That's how I found Drs John and Shippen. At least they give us hope. How many guys take whatever nonsense some local urologist or endo says at face value, only to be jacked up on T without regard to the underlying problem?

I know that and I have been in your shoes many times and once my gf gets her PHD in psychology then I can work in tandem with her addressing metabolic dsyfinctions at the cellular levels of many of her clients and bring them a better quality of life which they deserve and if I can not handle the medical part of it with through life style and nurtitoniol or supplemental means then I will refer them to dr john for further evaluation and proper treatment. When it comes to getting the system up and running thorugh natural means I will find a way if its is possible. I paid 600 bucks for a ND who could not even read an organic acids tests to tell me that I had estrogen imbalances 3 years ago. A year later I came back to him and told him what I found and he nearly crapped his pants because I was talking even way over his head. I post on many boards and it pisses people off that they are so gung ho on what the dr saids is like a gospel or something. We'll rigth now I am working on the biggest challegen of my life getting my GF sister to speak for the first time in 40 years from research i dug up on It is not out of the realm of the impossible.. I am working with her mother after 15 years a dr finally started to see the light about diabetes is related to thyroid dysfunctions..I am starting to rebuild her and give her life back.

Trust me everything I have learned I spent many hours researhcing not make shift articles but living in gov't data bases for over 5000 hours easily in past 3-4 years. My mind is so swamped with information that i spins even heads of most ND, but they think I blow smoke out of my ass untill I lay out gov't studies and back it by real results. I want to test a hypothesis that if I am correct could revolutionize way we think about estrogen and cancer today and may make one supplement even making it work more effective in combination and possible correct peoples estrogen imbalances once and for all ..

 

[anyman]

I think you're on to something with estrogen- look at the changes we are seeing.

Trust me everything I have learned I spent many hours researhcing not make shift articles but living in gov't data bases for over 5000 hours easily in past 3-4 years. My mind is so swamped with information that i spins even heads of most ND, but they think I blow smoke out of my ass untill I lay out gov't studies and back it by real results. I want to test a hypothesis that if I am correct could revolutionize way we think about estrogen and cancer today and may make one supplement even making it work more effective in combination and possible correct peoples estrogen imbalances once and for all ..

Girls are maturing earlier and earlier. Fewer boys are being born. Many, many more guys are having T issues and many more people are suffering from cancer, all the while we load up feed animals and our environment with all kids of synthetic chemicals. Something is increasingly wrong. I blame "us".

 

[engival]

even drinking from / using plastic containers can be estrogenic!

plus soy is in almost every processed food

 

[hardasnails1973]

even drinking from / using plastic containers can be estrogenic!

plus soy is in almost every processed food

Yep and i think reusing gallon jugs of water and heating my food up 5 meals a day in plastic containers not microwve safe with flax seed oil caused major inuslin resistance, estrogen imbalnaces and fatty liver as root cause of my problem dysrupting whole endocrine system. They could not find the imbalances because every thing pointed to estrogen problems from the start..

 

[JanSz]

I am beginning to suspect I have signs of early insulin resistance, even though I exercise, generally eat well and am not overweight (I am 6' and weigh aout 215-could stand to lose the 15-20 I've gained in the last 2 years since all this BS started).

Could this by why I have such low shbg (last test was 11) and "failed" the clomid test?

Assuming it's true, is this a "chicken and egg" problem? How do I control insulin if my T is low? COnversely, with low T, how can one control insulin?

I can't exercise 24/7 and generally eat well, so what is there left? Cut out EVERYTHING? Not even one beer and a littel pizza on a Friday night? Eat dirt and rocks?

Damn, this whole thing is REALLY frustrating......

Please post your lattest:
Hemoglobin A1C
Glucose, fasting
Insuline, serum

 

[anyman]

Will do once I get the results back

Please post your lattest:
Hemoglobin A1C
Glucose, fasting
Insuline, serum

Thanks- Gotta get the results back.

 

[hardasnails1973]

Yes, does anyone want to make arguement it is natural to be in a depressed state?

TRue but sometimes one has to ask "what came first the cart or the horse? That is why drs have to examine it from both sides but only tend to look at it more from "oh its from stress here is paxil and all blood tests are normal". So many people are falling through cracks ans as mariano did mention as one gets older we do not automatically get worse. Due to enviormental and fast pace world we live in our hormones from just every day stress are out of balanced. He mentioned that if dr would address HRT more often then alot of health costs would actually drop..

 

[anyman]

An excellent question, but one I cannot totally answer as I am not over 49 (m)

For those of us at least 49, do High School boys look less "manly" in general these days?

This said, I have to wonder as the few HS boys I see aren't exactly reminiscent of my HS days. Hell, even their music is wussified. Turn on the radio and you hear one whine fest after another from "artists" like "The Fray", "Snow Patrol" and "John Mayer". So much for Aerosmith, Van Halen and the like...

More seriously, I just don't know. I cannot escape the conclusion that we are doing something to ourselves, however.

 

[wildfox]

For those of us at least 49, do High School boys look less "manly" in general these days?

I'm 36, and I think some do look less "manly", even in college. And some girls look less "girly". One thing many of them do look more of is fat, and bitter.

 

[engival]

i believe i read a study, that the average male has a lot lower testosterone than males 25 years ago. not sure if thats true or i maybe misread the article and more men are becoming infertile


it would make sense, it seems near possible to continue to produce healthy vital men with how poor the diet is in america.
i'm still amazed how people are able to walk with the foods they eat on a daily basis.

 

[Kingneptune40]

I have to "chime in" on this topic, as I have discussed this with many of my buddies...........Its like George Carlin says in his stand-up routine.......he calls it the "Pussification of America"............And like George Carlin, I believe it is an "intentional" action by the people in charge, to castrate men and create a society of "yes men"...........

I read a study about 10 years ago that "The Pill" was causing higher levels of estrogen in men, because it was not being "filtered" properly out of our water supply.........Therefore causing testosterone levels to fall in men, and upsetting estrogen/progesterone ratios in women.......Did anyone read anything about this??? Cant remember if it was in Newsweek or Time Magazine, but it was in one of those reputable mags........

Then you consider the amount of Flouride in our water supply, which competes with Iodine receptors and the effects it has on our thyroid.........Not to mention all of the other chemicals that our dumped into lakes, rivers and our oceans.........Its just mind boggling to think of the amount of pollution we have to deal with in the world........

Then you consider what is being injected into our beef and pork and other feed animals...........Makes you wonder what the "end-game" of this experiment will be on our society........

 

[plymouth city]

I cannot believe enough estrogen from the urine of women on OBC remains in our drinking water to hurt us. Howver, the xenoestrogens in ever increasing concentrations are another story.

As for flouride, it has never actually been shown that it helps anyone. In fact, flouride induces bone deposition which is of a weak and unatural matrix; there also has been a dramatic rise in a very special form of bone cancer which flouride is known to cause.

Flouride was introduced into our water supply NOT by good science, but rather through the efforts of marketing: it is a way for the pesticide and aluminun industries to dump a TOXIC form of flouride residual.

Is flouride dangerous? Just look for the Poison Control Center caveat, and contact info, on the side of the toothpaste tube you hand your children...

I use flouride free toothpaste, you can get it at any health food store. And I drink bottled water. I also got a nice filter on my shower head too. Does the trick :thumbsup:

 

[wildfox]

Ingesting water with estrogen shouldn't be a danger. Wouldn't that estrogen get metabolized first pass in the liver? If it was that easy, we'd be drinking T-water.

All them parabens on the skin though, that's scary.

I think men are by design supposed to wear overalls or nothing at all, "go commando", sweat a lot, take pride in what body hair they have, do lot's of physical work most days, break stuff, fix stuff, build stuff, and bathe maybe once a month. Jump in a river on a daily basis is good that.

Oh, and eat lot's of meat and fish (salmon, of course).

....And mating. Lot's of mating. Tons. 3 times a day.

Let the girls look pretty (they should also go around in overalls or nothing at all, go commando, etc.)

GRUNT!

 

[Kingneptune40]

Amen my brothers............Dr John, I will have to dig up that article I read on "The Pill and Estrogens".........I had a hard time believing it myself, but at the time did not think it was a big deal..........After reading so much info on the bad effects of Flouride and the number of cities trying to reduce its amounts, it just makes me wonder if somehow there is something in the water supply that lowers testosterone in men...........X-Files..........LOL I will have to study the Xeno-estrogens, not up to date on that info..........

Plymouth City.........What kind of water filter do you use??? I have read so much contrasting info on filters, dont know what to believe...........I get Tom's of Maine for toothpaste and only drink spring water...........

 

[hardasnails1973]

Amen my brothers............Dr John, I will have to dig up that article I read on "The Pill and Estrogens".........I had a hard time believing it myself, but at the time did not think it was a big deal..........After reading so much info on the bad effects of Flouride and the number of cities trying to reduce its amounts, it just makes me wonder if somehow there is something in the water supply that lowers testosterone in men...........X-Files..........LOL I will have to study the Xeno-estrogens, not up to date on that info..........

Plymouth City.........What kind of water filter do you use??? I have read so much contrasting info on filters, dont know what to believe...........I get Tom's of Maine for toothpaste and only drink spring water...........

On organic acids tests there is a compound called xylene and when I researched it. Its basically telling your body is over loaded with xeno estrogens or you have altered bowel flora which will cause high xenoestrogen levels as well. Amazing over 90% of people usually test high on this. Kind of scare huh


Fluroides also binds with iodine causing thyroid dysfunction

 

[1cc]

For those of us at least 49, do High School boys look less "manly" in general these days?

Yes. I think a big part is cultural.

 

[hardasnails1973]

Yes. I think a big part is cultural.

Damn metro sexuals LOL

 

[berlin]

What is meant by "down regulating receptor cites"?

There is no evidence to support the AR down-regulation theory. That's the same theory that the 80's steroids gurus believed was the reason for decreasing returns when running gear - the actual reason was more likely the fact that those athletes were pushing further and further beyond their genetic potential.

 

[Chip Douglas]

It's late here, and I really have to get some sleep, but I read the entire thread and I have to say this is a very interesting thread which hopefully won't be let dying off, cause there's something to it........again, very interesting stuff.

 

[JesusReagan]

For those of us at least 49, do High School boys look less "manly" in general these days?

have you ever looked at pictures of baseball players from the '20's & 30's? Not the usual ones like Babe Ruth etc...but team shots and such? Or watched Ken Burns' documentary on baseball? Those guys looked so *old*! I mean, 23 year olds that looked 45. My dad had lots of pics of his mates in WWII, and those guys were all between 18-26, and they look so much older than my generation did at that age, ant *lots* older than the same age group today. Today's high school kids look like elementary school kids to me.

 

[Chip Douglas]

have you ever looked at pictures of baseball players from the '20's & 30's? Not the usual ones like Babe Ruth etc...but team shots and such? Or watched Ken Burns' documentary on baseball? Those guys looked so *old*! I mean, 23 year olds that looked 45. My dad had lots of pics of his mates in WWII, and those guys were all between 18-26, and they look so much older than my generation did at that age, ant *lots* older than the same age group today. Today's high school kids look like elementary school kids to me.

Funny you say that cause my observation has been identical to yours, and no doubt many of use have noticed this trend as well.

 

[plymouth city]

Of course they do. T levels are dropping rapidly with every generation. This already has been proven.

Todays teenage boys have 2/3 of the T that their grandfathers had at their age.

 

[Chip Douglas]

Of course they do. T levels are dropping rapidly with every generation. This already has been proven.

Todays teenage boys have 2/3 of the T that their grandfathers had at their age.

this is not good--it bodes ill.

 

[AnotherOldGuy]

For those of us at least 49, do High School boys look less "manly" in general these days?

everything has gotten too damn sterile. (no pun intended). No one plays hard enough to break anything anymore - well, you may have the gifted few - but i'm talking about a group of kids playing tackle football without pads. (well, now with the Wii, maybe kids will now get some exercise).

I broke the legs of 2 kids playing hard at recess (yeah, catholic school), and someone gave me a concussion. Then I entered middle school.

I also wonder about artificial sweetners and soda in general. Never had it as a kid - well, at least not until high school. Couldn't afford it. Fast food? it was MAYBE a once a month treat - not a regular occasion. Home cooked meals were the norm.

Aspirin was the only OTC med for body pain and headache.

Butter was in the fridge, margarine on the pantry shelf (I remember most people didn't refrigerate margarine when it first came out).

We stayed out all night in the woods, cooking our own meals in less than sanitary pots and pans - played "war" with BB guns with no eye protection. I remember falling off my skate board and skinned a few elbos and knees because we didn't have helmuts or other girly maxi pads.

But women were uglier. Preteens did not have breast implants, and most girls were not having sex in middle school. Girls these days obviuosly must like the current trend in low T mascara wearing "boys".

 

[Chip Douglas]

everything has gotten too damn sterile. (no pun intended). No one plays hard enough to break anything anymore - well, you may have the gifted few - but i'm talking about a group of kids playing tackle football without pads. (well, now with the Wii, maybe kids will now get some exercise).

I broke the legs of 2 kids playing hard at recess (yeah, catholic school), and someone gave me a concussion. Then I entered middle school.

I also wonder about artificial sweetners and soda in general. Never had it as a kid - well, at least not until high school. Couldn't afford it. Fast food? it was MAYBE a once a month treat - not a regular occasion. Home cooked meals were the norm.

Aspirin was the only OTC med for body pain and headache.

Butter was in the fridge, margarine on the pantry shelf (I remember most people didn't refrigerate margarine when it first came out).

We stayed out all night in the woods, cooking our own meals in less than sanitary pots and pans - played "war" with BB guns with no eye protection. I remember falling off my skate board and skinned a few elbos and knees because we didn't have helmuts or other girly maxi pads.

But women were uglier. Preteens did not have breast implants, and most girls were not having sex in middle school. Girls these days obviuosly must like the current trend in low T mascara wearing "boys".

Nice and funny post

 

[jaydee]

Would the steroids they use in cows milk and meat have much to do with the feminizing of males these days? If roids can make you hypogonadal, wouldnt this have a similar effect? Even eggs are full of hormones...anything do beef them up...cheese....etc....

 

[plymouth city]

Would the steroids they use in cows milk and meat have much to do with the feminizing of males these days? If roids can make you hypogonadal, wouldnt this have a similar effect? Even eggs are full of hormones...anything do beef them up...cheese....etc....

The crazy PETA people would lead you to believe this, but I will tell ya this -

Im all for the fair treatment of animals, I believe they should all be free range, etc etc.

However, the whole bovine hormone thing is blown WAY WAY WAY out of proportion. Way to much time is spent on this when it has been scientifically proven time and time again that the levels of the hormone in food is safe. Again, Im not saying it should be there, an obviously were better off without it, but this is small potatoes compared to soy and xenoestrogens.

Way more time shoud be spent on xenoestrogens and soy in food. This is the real danger.

Either way, this is another reason why I love Michigan - When I want meat, I go to the freezer and get the deer that we shoot all winter. :numbered:

 

[AnotherOldGuy]

The crazy PETA people would lead you to believe this, but I will tell ya this......

Penn & Teller has a most excellant "Bullsh#t!" episode on PETA.

 

[AnotherOldGuy]

Nice and funny post

Thanks, now ya got me going. I was filling my gas gussler today, reading the warnings on the pump. Do it sometime. Geez, I should be DEAD. I syphoned using my mouth. I used gas to clean parts. Gas has come into contact with my skin on numerous occasions. I used to LOVE the smell of high octane, still do (expecially Turbo Blue). The only "warning" that I was careful of, was getting gas in my eyes (no sh#t sherlock!), but that probably happened too.

I had to laugh as I was paying for half a tank of gas ($74) in my SUV, thinking about this thread, the "dangers" of gasoline - and thinking this sign was almost as bad as the movie "reefer madness".

 

[anyman]

Scientists are now studying why fewer boys are being born. The problem is worsening

Take a look here and see what is being researched:

http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2007/04/09/ratio-males.html

Something is increasingly amiss. We are slowly doing harm to ourselves and/or our environment. I am FAR from a treehugger, but the evidence that something is increasingly off is increasing. Just look at all of us here on this board....