Why is high testosterone unhealthy?
- 06-15-2007, 07:03 PM
- 06-15-2007, 07:13 PM
I think increased blood pressure, insulin resistance, gynocomastia, lactation, thickening of the left aorta, etc come to mind. I do not have studies in front of my to back this up. I am cool at the level I am at.
06-15-2007, 07:17 PM
06-15-2007, 08:04 PM
06-15-2007, 08:21 PM
06-15-2007, 10:24 PM
BTW, I meant no disrespect in my first response.
I think the old guy is on 200/week. I think people may think that they are ok, but are they really doing what is best for the long term? What type of tests are they getting done, how often and who is interpreting the results? I am sure they are not studying changes to the left aorta of the heart. I think many online clinics only care about the money.
I was on 115 mg/week and my new doctor wants my dosage to come down. A doctor that says that is concerned about my long term health.
I know you posted test, but let me tell you about some more healthy people. In another forum I participate in, maybe 1/4 of the members use trenbolone acetate regularly. For those who do not know, tren is made my taking cattle steroids pellets that are 5 times more anabolic & androgenic than testosterone, separating out the "good stuff "by soaking in some sort of gasoline additive, etc, etc then mixing with oil. The users have coughing fits (tren cought), urinate blood and they will tell you in all seriousness that they are healthy. Their lipid values are terrible but they do not believe that bad lipids cause problems.
I really like my testosterone and there are enough cattle where I live, but just the same, I am happy with being at the upper 1/3 to top of normal.
06-16-2007, 02:13 AM
pissing blood from trenbolone? that is REALLY bad. there is a bit of an issue going aruond as to whether the darkening of the urine caused by taking trenbolone is from kidney stress or simply the color of the exreted oxidized trenbolone molecule itself.
and it is my understanding (only explanation i have seen and confirmed) that "tren cough" is caused by an allergic reaction to the acetate ester...not the trenbolone molecule itself.
the gasoline addivated youre talking about is heet, its a methanol product used to dissolve the cattle pellets. its actually quite sanitary if done correctly.
If you read through our supplement section, it appears that "bad" lipid values are actually quite conducive to muscle building in an of itself. i suppose its a bit of a trade off.
that being said, i personally do not know of anyone (and i know quite a few people that could be examples) that has had any kind of health issue directly related to high dose testosterone use.
for HRT purposes...why go over the required dosage?
06-16-2007, 08:11 AM
First it's early and I just woke up but I'll try and shed some lightLawhammer keep in mind that the body is the most sophisticated machine ever created. Everything does something for a reason. My guess is they ran blood on hundreds of men and saw the trend that Test in the system is between this range to this range. Your body regulates test for a lot of good reasons some stated above. Remember your body is always trying to reach a state of homeostasis so if your on HRT with levels that your body was not meant to have there will be a reaction. When supplementing anything that your body makes we want to work with it not against it or else it defeats the whole purpose.
06-16-2007, 12:00 PM
Part of the issue is today's political and legal climate. Even if there was some valid reason to think that above range T levels were good for you, Doctors would not want to do this:
1 -State medical boards can take away their license.
2 -Insurance companies will refuse to deal with those doctors
3 -Political driven witch hunts.
4 -Some guy on higher T with an underlying health problem gets cancer, heart attack or stroke and they sue the Doctor.
5 -endless list
06-16-2007, 12:29 PM
Political issues aside.
In the ideal word we want to have ideal T levels that nature provides to healthy men.
What is it?
Current answer, it is a level that avarage healthy young man have?
What level average healthy young men have?
Do not know, this is best I can come up with:
Testosterone Free (46.0-224.0)pg/mL
Testosterone Bioavailable (110.0-575.0)ng/dL
I think these levels should not create any legal trouble for my doctor.
06-16-2007, 12:34 PM
06-16-2007, 12:43 PM
06-16-2007, 01:04 PM
Quote From a Book
"Exogenous Hormones. Exogenous hormones come into the body from outside and can cause a world of problems.(Anabolic steroids, insulin, and the growth hormone injections described above, are examples of exogenous hormones.). The problems with exogenous hormones stem from the fact that your body cannot control them - it cannot make the hormone jump back into the needle or pill bottle. All your body can do to counteract the incoming hormone is decrease of shut-off internal (endogenous) production of that particular hormone. (These natual counterregulatory mechanisms are called feedback loops). If there is still too much hormone floating around after exogenous hormone is administered, it cannot precisely mimic the subtle ebb and flow of naturally produced hormones. The human body is exquisitely sensitive to hormonal fluctuations. As long as your body is in control, as with finely tuned control mechanisms; and you can upset your entire endocrine system, with potentially grave consequences.
If you take the hormone for a long enough period of time, then once you stop taking it, your body does not resume making the hormone. (Remember "use it or lose it?" - well, at this point you lost it.) When that happens, you are hooked for life on taking the hormone(a very profitable situation for the dealer of the steroids, growth hormone, etc.). Even if you do not completely lose the capacity to produce hormone, it takes a while to come back. And until it does, you suffer a shortage of that hormone, during which time all of the positive effects are reversed - just ask any ex-steroid user. As you can see, exogenous hormones are risky and have an effect opposite to Natural Hormonal Enhancement, by impairing, rather than enhancing, natural production of hormones.
Endogenous Hormones. These are the natural hormones produced by the body. Unless you have an endocrine infirmity(like diabetes, hypogonadism, Cushing's disease or Addison's disease), your hormones can never rise too high or fall too low because your body regulates hormones in the same way a thermostat regulates temperature - it allows fluctuations within a set range. You can naturally enhance endogenous hormones from "low-normal" to "high-normal," but never above normal. You influence endogenous hormones every day of your life."
Ok thats from a great book I own called "Natural Hormonal Enhancement" by Rob Faigin. It is an excellent book I have read it cover to cover many times. I have never actually followed his plan but follow a similar one. Its a great book anyway. That was a pain in the ass, I have to go find the book and find that specific page and type it all in!. I hope you guys enjoyed it!. Anyway I hope this is ok, it is just a quote and I did give credit to the author!.
06-16-2007, 01:32 PM
Do you have any idea how Quest is commong up with the ranges?
My guess, they keep running statistics of their results,
take some kind of average, slap +- error based on (STdev), and there you have it.
Their upper range still may be lower than young and healthy men have.
============================== ============================== =============
We probably should worry about this whole set T+E
Estradiol, Free (0.3-0.9) pg/mL
Estradiol, Bioavailable (10-50) pg/mL
Testosterone Free (46.0-224.0) pg/mL
Testosterone Bioavailable (110.0-575.0) ng/dL
06-17-2007, 11:52 AM
06-17-2007, 03:08 PM
Many clinical trials - as part of the study - use a control group of healthy young males (sometimes several hundred, depending on the study) and obtain their hormone levels aas sampling for the testing process. Also the government itself funds studies to examine hormone levels in different age groups.
Statistical levels of hormones aren't derived only from people who come in for medical work-ups or specific problems - so it's not a "weak statistical base".
06-17-2007, 03:17 PM
Actually, I think that this would be a VG question for Dr C to weigh in on! I have heard from patients of his that he is "death on wheels" when it comes t having supra physciological levels of Test in the blood test results, so maybe he can inform us of the technical details of the problems with such levels?
06-17-2007, 09:12 PM
06-17-2007, 10:47 PM
06-18-2007, 05:33 PM
Just how far outside the range would one need to be to even put you in the catagory? Probably hard to answer, but I would be real curious in the opinions of the people on this board.
06-18-2007, 06:48 PM
06-18-2007, 07:20 PM
06-18-2007, 07:21 PM
06-18-2007, 08:14 PM
06-18-2007, 09:48 PM
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