What are the odds of my doc consulting with Dr. John?

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  1. What are the odds of my doc consulting with Dr. John?


    I ask because the trip to Michigan isnt going over too well with my parents and since I am still a student and under their insurance plan, I am in a bind (yes I am young to be experiencing low test, but it's the sad fact).

    I was wondering if any of you get your PCP to consult with Dr. John and work with him that way. This way, my insurance will cover the scripts written by my doctor and the only cost I would have would be the initial 300 bucks and then 50 dollars every consultation thereafter. I can swing that myself so my parents wont even be worried about that. Anyway, how likely is it to have a PCP agree to work with Dr. John?


  2. Quote Originally Posted by CF10 View Post
    I ask because the trip to Michigan isnt going over too well with my parents and since I am still a student and under their insurance plan, I am in a bind (yes I am young to be experiencing low test, but it's the sad fact).

    I was wondering if any of you get your PCP to consult with Dr. John and work with him that way. This way, my insurance will cover the scripts written by my doctor and the only cost I would have would be the initial 300 bucks and then 50 dollars every consultation thereafter. I can swing that myself so my parents wont even be worried about that. Anyway, how likely is it to have a PCP agree to work with Dr. John?
    If you look like that in your avatar
    WTF you need dr john or any hormone dr for ?
    •   
       


  3. Quote Originally Posted by CF10 View Post
    I ask because the trip to Michigan isnt going over too well with my parents and since I am still a student and under their insurance plan, I am in a bind (yes I am young to be experiencing low test, but it's the sad fact).

    I was wondering if any of you get your PCP to consult with Dr. John and work with him that way. This way, my insurance will cover the scripts written by my doctor and the only cost I would have would be the initial 300 bucks and then 50 dollars every consultation thereafter. I can swing that myself so my parents wont even be worried about that. Anyway, how likely is it to have a PCP agree to work with Dr. John?
    It is more likely if he is osteopath.
    You can find them in your zip code or neighborhood zip codes here:
    American Osteopathic Association
    After you get list of 20 or so of them,
    use telephone, talk to their nurses
    first if they do TRT
    if they do TRT, ask if they would help also with adrenals and thyroid
    then if the doc would consult with Dr John.
    ----------------------------------
    You may want to buy script from LEF and do the blood test first, so you will know if you really have this type of problem.
    250 HCG twice a week

  4. Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973 View Post
    If you look like that in your avatar
    WTF you need dr john or any hormone dr for ?
    Here are my blood results...I think you'll understand. And it baffles me how I can maintain this condition after seeing these test results. Really makes me wonder what I could do if my test levels werent that of an 85 yr old man and my thyroid wasnt hypo (as it appears)

    -Glucose 80 (65-99)
    -Uric Acid 4.9 (2.4-8.2)
    -BUN 36 (5-26)
    -Creatinine 1.8 (0.5-1.5)
    -BUN/Creatinine ratio 20 (8-27)
    -Sodium 142 (135-148)
    -Potassium 4.2 (3.5-5.5)
    -Chloride 105 (96-109)
    -Carbon Dioxide 23 (20-32)
    -Calcium 9.4 (8.5-10.6)
    -Phosphorus, serum 4.7 (2.5-4.5)
    -Protein Total 7.1 (6-8.5)
    -Albumin 4.9 (3.5-5.5)
    -Globulin 2.2 (1.5-4.5)
    -A/G ratio 2.2 (1.1-2.5)
    -Bilirubin 0.8 (0.1-1.2)
    -Alkaline Phosphates 43 (25-150)
    -LDH 168 (100-250)
    -AST SGOT 77 (0-40)
    -ALT SGPT 50 (0-55)
    -GGT 15 (0-65)
    -Iron 113 (40-155)

    -Cholesterol, Total 180 (100-199)
    -Triglycerides 50 (0-149)
    -HDL 76 (40-59)
    -LDL 94 (0-99)
    -Total cholesterol/HDL ratio 2.4 (0-5)

    -TSH 7.762 (.350-5.5)
    -Thyroxine 4.2 (4.5-12)
    -T3 uptake 34 (24-39)
    -Free Thyroxine Index 1.4 (1.2-4.9)

    -WBC 4.2 (4-10.5)
    -RBC 4.21 (4.10-5.60)
    -Hemoglobin 14.4 (12.5-17)
    -Hematocrit 40.6 (36-50)
    -MCV 96 (80-98)
    -MCH 34.2 (27-34)
    -MCHC 35.5 (32-36)
    -RDW 13.9 (11.7-15)
    -Platelets 146 (140-415)
    -Neutrophils 30 (40-74)
    -Lymphs 63 (14-46)
    -Monocytes 4 (4-13)
    -EOS 3 (0-7)
    -Basos 0 (0-3)
    -Neutrophils absolute 1.3 (1.8-7.8)
    -Lymphs absolute 2.6 (0.7-4.5)
    -Monocytes absolute 0.2 (0.1-1)
    -EOS absolute 0.1 (0-0.4)
    -Basos absolute 0 (0-2)

    Total and Free Testosterone 260 (241-827)
    Free Testosterone 5.1 (9.3-26.5)
    Cortisol 24.3 (4.3-22.4)
    Estrogen, Total 71 (40-115)

  5. Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973 View Post
    If you look like that in your avatar
    WTF you need dr john or any hormone dr for ?
    What you look like isnt a representation of your hormone levels.


    CF10, what worked best for me was to do a google search for anti-aging clinics in my state/city and call them up and make an apointment.
    •   
       


  6. What symptoms are you having? Like Hardasnails said, it's hard to believe you have any problems based on the image in that Avatar. I realize your numbers are off, but do you have ANY symptoms of thyroid disease, hypogonadism, etc.?

  7. Quote Originally Posted by MacDonnell View Post
    What symptoms are you having? Like Hardasnails said, it's hard to believe you have any problems based on the image in that Avatar. I realize your numbers are off, but do you have ANY symptoms of thyroid disease, hypogonadism, etc.?
    Yes that is why I got a test done in the first place. I have lethargy, zero libido, depression, loss of strength, irritablity, and mood swings. The worst things are the libido and irritability. I am finding myself hating everyone around me for the littlest things. I told everyone that I suspected low test and thats why I wanted bloodwork. They told me no way, you dont have low test. But unless the lab screwed up the results, I do. I mean free test is almost 5! That's horrible.

  8. Quote Originally Posted by CF10 View Post
    Here are my blood results...
    Looks like you have kidney or liver issues. Sort those out first.

  9. Quote Originally Posted by CF10 View Post
    Here are my blood results...I think you'll understand. And it baffles me how I can maintain this condition after seeing these test results. Really makes me wonder what I could do if my test levels werent that of an 85 yr old man and my thyroid wasnt hypo (as it appears)

    -Glucose 80 (65-99)
    -Uric Acid 4.9 (2.4-8.2)
    -BUN 36 (5-26)
    -Creatinine 1.8 (0.5-1.5)
    -BUN/Creatinine ratio 20 (8-27)
    -Sodium 142 (135-148)
    -Potassium 4.2 (3.5-5.5)
    -Chloride 105 (96-109)
    -Carbon Dioxide 23 (20-32)
    -Calcium 9.4 (8.5-10.6)
    -Phosphorus, serum 4.7 (2.5-4.5)
    -Protein Total 7.1 (6-8.5)
    -Albumin 4.9 (3.5-5.5)
    -Globulin 2.2 (1.5-4.5)
    -A/G ratio 2.2 (1.1-2.5)
    -Bilirubin 0.8 (0.1-1.2)
    -Alkaline Phosphates 43 (25-150)
    -LDH 168 (100-250)
    -AST SGOT 77 (0-40)
    -ALT SGPT 50 (0-55)
    -GGT 15 (0-65)
    -Iron 113 (40-155)

    -Cholesterol, Total 180 (100-199)
    -Triglycerides 50 (0-149)
    -HDL 76 (40-59)
    -LDL 94 (0-99)
    -Total cholesterol/HDL ratio 2.4 (0-5)

    -TSH 7.762 (.350-5.5)
    -Thyroxine 4.2 (4.5-12)
    -T3 uptake 34 (24-39)
    -Free Thyroxine Index 1.4 (1.2-4.9)

    -WBC 4.2 (4-10.5)
    -RBC 4.21 (4.10-5.60)
    -Hemoglobin 14.4 (12.5-17)
    -Hematocrit 40.6 (36-50)
    -MCV 96 (80-98)
    -MCH 34.2 (27-34)
    -MCHC 35.5 (32-36)
    -RDW 13.9 (11.7-15)
    -Platelets 146 (140-415)
    -Neutrophils 30 (40-74)
    -Lymphs 63 (14-46)
    -Monocytes 4 (4-13)
    -EOS 3 (0-7)
    -Basos 0 (0-3)
    -Neutrophils absolute 1.3 (1.8-7.8)
    -Lymphs absolute 2.6 (0.7-4.5)
    -Monocytes absolute 0.2 (0.1-1)
    -EOS absolute 0.1 (0-0.4)
    -Basos absolute 0 (0-2)

    Total and Free Testosterone 260 (241-827)
    Free Testosterone 5.1 (9.3-26.5)
    Cortisol 24.3 (4.3-22.4)
    Estrogen, Total 71 (40-115)
    Get FreeT3


    Wait for Cpeil2 to comment on you blood, send him PM if wait is too long.

    Yes, you need T, E, thyroid, adrenals adjustments but testosterone may not be your bigest problem.

    Wait a little on what will come up on this thread, then you will have to have good talk with your parents.
    -------------------------
    cpeil2 post to get you started:
    Chiropractor/Bloodwork/Pre-Dr Crisler

  10. Quote Originally Posted by wildfox View Post
    Looks like you have kidney or liver issues. Sort those out first.
    I see that too. I was hoping the BUN and Creatinine were only elevated due to taking creatine and having high protein in my diet, not because it indicates kidney failure. The liver issue concerns me but it is only the one enzyme, nothing else. Hopefully it isnt serious.

  11. Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    Get FreeT3


    Wait for Cpeil2 to comment on you blood, send him PM if wait is too long.

    Yes, you need T, E, thyroid, adrenals adjustments but testosterone may not be your bigest problem.

    Wait a little on what will come up on this thread, then you will have to have good talk with your parents.
    -------------------------
    cpeil2 post to get you started:
    Chiropractor/Bloodwork/Pre-Dr Crisler

    Adrenal imabalances and magnesium, zinc deficiency stick out like sore thumb look at Alkaline phosphotase its a zinc driven enyzme ..also reflect adrenal function too

    http://www.drkaslow.com/html/alkaline_phosphatase.html

    A decreased serum alkaline phosphatase may be due to:

    Zinc deficiency.
    Hypothyroidism.
    Vitamin C deficiency/Scurvy.
    Folic acid deficiency.
    Excess Vitamin D intake.
    Low phosphorus levels (hypophosphatasia)
    Celiac disease.
    Malnutrition with low protein assimilation (including low stomach acid production/hypochlorhydria).
    Insufficient Parathyroid gland function. -
    Pernicious anemia
    Vitamin B6 insufficiency

  12. Quote Originally Posted by CF10 View Post
    I see that too. I was hoping the BUN and Creatinine were only elevated due to taking creatine and having high protein in my diet, not because it indicates kidney failure. The liver issue concerns me but it is only the one enzyme, nothing else. Hopefully it isnt serious.
    Nope probably from working out day or so before muscle breakdown will increase liver enyzmes

  13. Personally I think highly unlikely. That was the route I was going to take but I was told I'd still have to go see Dr. John for an initial visit anyway. I couldn't understand that. I'd either make the trip or find another doctor in your area. What state you in?
    I am in the same bind as all my scripts have to go through my PCP and he doesn't know anything about HRT. I don't use insurance for anything except lab work myself because almost everything is so cheap it's not worth me hassling with my PCP.

    I'd curious what your DHT level is.

    Quote Originally Posted by CF10 View Post
    I ask because the trip to Michigan isnt going over too well with my parents and since I am still a student and under their insurance plan, I am in a bind (yes I am young to be experiencing low test, but it's the sad fact).

    I was wondering if any of you get your PCP to consult with Dr. John and work with him that way. This way, my insurance will cover the scripts written by my doctor and the only cost I would have would be the initial 300 bucks and then 50 dollars every consultation thereafter. I can swing that myself so my parents wont even be worried about that. Anyway, how likely is it to have a PCP agree to work with Dr. John?

  14. Quote Originally Posted by CF10 View Post
    I see that too. I was hoping the BUN and Creatinine were only elevated due to taking creatine and having high protein in my diet, not because it indicates kidney failure. The liver issue concerns me but it is only the one enzyme, nothing else. Hopefully it isnt serious.
    Change from creatine to kre-alkalyn, that will fix up your creatanine and BUN count.

  15. I will bank on e2/ thyroid/ adrenal imbalnaces

  16. Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973 View Post
    Nope probably from working out day or so before muscle breakdown will increase liver enyzmes
    Yeah I worked out the afternoon before, and blood was drawn in the morning the next day. Praying that you are right about this.


    Quote Originally Posted by aculpep View Post
    Personally I think highly unlikely. That was the route I was going to take but I was told I'd still have to go see Dr. John for an initial visit anyway. I couldn't understand that. I'd either make the trip or find another doctor in your area. What state you in?
    I am in the same bind as all my scripts have to go through my PCP and he doesn't know anything about HRT. I don't use insurance for anything except lab work myself because almost everything is so cheap it's not worth me hassling with my PCP.

    I'd curious what your DHT level is.
    I'm in Georgia. I'm going to the PCP tomorrow to show him my results. Not sure what he's gonna say, but I will ask him to work with Dr. John or at least refer me to someone who is experienced with adrenal fatigue, thyroid, and TRT.


    Quote Originally Posted by ItsHectic
    Change from creatine to kre-alkalyn, that will fix up your creatanine and BUN count.
    Thanks I will look into that.

  17. From the other board I see it was after you went through a cutting cycle for 6 months? Were you fine before that? I wouldnt think you'd need TRT if you were fine before cutting. I'd think you have some metabolic syndrome. Are you going to have more tests done, like LH and E2? If your LH is low then maybe some HCG to kickstart and some pregnenolone and dhea cream to give your body the building blocks it needs. Those are cheap.

    Quote Originally Posted by CF10 View Post
    I ask because the trip to Michigan isnt going over too well with my parents and since I am still a student and under their insurance plan, I am in a bind (yes I am young to be experiencing low test, but it's the sad fact).

    I was wondering if any of you get your PCP to consult with Dr. John and work with him that way. This way, my insurance will cover the scripts written by my doctor and the only cost I would have would be the initial 300 bucks and then 50 dollars every consultation thereafter. I can swing that myself so my parents wont even be worried about that. Anyway, how likely is it to have a PCP agree to work with Dr. John?

  18. Quote Originally Posted by CF10 View Post
    I'm in Georgia.
    http://www.thyroid-info.com/

    FIND A TOP DOCTOR: The Thyroid Top Doctors Directory features patient-recommended practitioners around the world.

  19. Quote Originally Posted by aculpep View Post
    From the other board I see it was after you went through a cutting cycle for 6 months? Were you fine before that? I wouldnt think you'd need TRT if you were fine before cutting. I'd think you have some metabolic syndrome. Are you going to have more tests done, like LH and E2? If your LH is low then maybe some HCG to kickstart and some pregnenolone and dhea cream to give your body the building blocks it needs. Those are cheap.

    Yes I was fine before cutting and that would be GREAT if I didnt need TRT...believe me Im not some idiot just lookin to get scripts for testosterone. I am gonna have more tests done. I know I need LH, FSH, E2, and free T3 and T4. Anything else? I would hope my doctor would know what to test for but after reading more and more Im doubting this. Right now I think I'm just gonna take this list to him and tell him to run a test for all of it (it's from Dr. John's TRT paper):

    •Total Testosterone
    •Bioavailable Testosterone (AKA “Free and Loosely Bound”)
    •Free Testosterone (if Bioavailable T is unavailable)
    •SHBG
    •DHT
    •Estradiol (specify “ultrasensitive” assay for males)
    •LH
    •FSH
    •Prolactin
    •Cortisol
    •Thyroid Panel
    •CBC
    •Comprehensive Metabolic Panel
    •Lipid Profile


    Is this a good start? I am trying to take as much knowledge into this visit as possible.

  20. Quote Originally Posted by CF10 View Post
    Yes I was fine before cutting and that would be GREAT if I didnt need TRT...believe me Im not some idiot just lookin to get scripts for testosterone. I am gonna have more tests done. I know I need LH, FSH, E2, and free T3 and T4. Anything else? I would hope my doctor would know what to test for but after reading more and more Im doubting this. Right now I think I'm just gonna take this list to him and tell him to run a test for all of it (it's from Dr. John's TRT paper):

    •Total Testosterone
    •Bioavailable Testosterone (AKA “Free and Loosely Bound”)
    •Free Testosterone (if Bioavailable T is unavailable)
    •SHBG
    •DHT
    •Estradiol (specify “ultrasensitive” assay for males)
    •LH
    •FSH
    •Prolactin
    •Cortisol
    •Thyroid Panel
    •CBC
    •Comprehensive Metabolic Panel
    •Lipid Profile


    Is this a good start? I am trying to take as much knowledge into this visit as possible.
    Over training and under eating could have wacked out your thyroid it is known to do that !! but normally it should rebound some times you are up ****z creek with out a paddle and for some reason it never rebounds, but being pushed to the lmit mentally and phyiscally we need to pay the piper sometime down the road as more and more people are finally starting to see.

  21. Quote Originally Posted by CF10 View Post
    Here are my blood results...I think you'll understand. And it baffles me how I can maintain this condition after seeing these test results. Really makes me wonder what I could do if my test levels werent that of an 85 yr old man and my thyroid wasnt hypo (as it appears)

    -Glucose 80 (65-99)
    -Uric Acid 4.9 (2.4-8.2)
    -BUN 36 (5-26)
    -Creatinine 1.8 (0.5-1.5)
    -BUN/Creatinine ratio 20 (8-27)
    -Sodium 142 (135-148)
    -Potassium 4.2 (3.5-5.5)
    -Chloride 105 (96-109)
    -Carbon Dioxide 23 (20-32)
    -Calcium 9.4 (8.5-10.6)
    -Phosphorus, serum 4.7 (2.5-4.5)
    -Protein Total 7.1 (6-8.5)
    -Albumin 4.9 (3.5-5.5)
    -Globulin 2.2 (1.5-4.5)
    -A/G ratio 2.2 (1.1-2.5)
    -Bilirubin 0.8 (0.1-1.2)
    -Alkaline Phosphates 43 (25-150)
    -LDH 168 (100-250)
    -AST SGOT 77 (0-40)
    -ALT SGPT 50 (0-55)
    -GGT 15 (0-65)
    -Iron 113 (40-155)

    -Cholesterol, Total 180 (100-199)
    -Triglycerides 50 (0-149)
    -HDL 76 (40-59)
    -LDL 94 (0-99)
    -Total cholesterol/HDL ratio 2.4 (0-5)

    -TSH 7.762 (.350-5.5)
    -Thyroxine 4.2 (4.5-12)
    -T3 uptake 34 (24-39)
    -Free Thyroxine Index 1.4 (1.2-4.9)

    -WBC 4.2 (4-10.5)
    -RBC 4.21 (4.10-5.60)
    -Hemoglobin 14.4 (12.5-17)
    -Hematocrit 40.6 (36-50)
    -MCV 96 (80-98)
    -MCH 34.2 (27-34)
    -MCHC 35.5 (32-36)
    -RDW 13.9 (11.7-15)
    -Platelets 146 (140-415)
    -Neutrophils 30 (40-74)
    -Lymphs 63 (14-46)
    -Monocytes 4 (4-13)
    -EOS 3 (0-7)
    -Basos 0 (0-3)
    -Neutrophils absolute 1.3 (1.8-7.8)
    -Lymphs absolute 2.6 (0.7-4.5)
    -Monocytes absolute 0.2 (0.1-1)
    -EOS absolute 0.1 (0-0.4)
    -Basos absolute 0 (0-2)

    Total and Free Testosterone 260 (241-827)
    Free Testosterone 5.1 (9.3-26.5)
    Cortisol 24.3 (4.3-22.4)
    Estrogen, Total 71 (40-115)

    Your neutrophil count is a little low - but not so low that you need to worry about it. Your absolute lymphocyte count is normal. The differential count is off because the reduced neutrophil count threw off the ratios.

    I don't know what to make of the increased MCH (mean cellular hemoglobin). I suspect it is increased because at the time the blood was drawn, you might have been a little fluid-depleted. There is an outside chance it could be an anemia but you sure don't look like a guy with anemia.

  22. Quote Originally Posted by cpeil2 View Post
    Your neutrophil count is a little low - but not so low that you need to worry about it. Your absolute lymphocyte count is normal. The differential count is off because the reduced neutrophil count threw off the ratios.

    I don't know what to make of the increased MCH (mean cellular hemoglobin). I suspect it is increased because at the time the blood was drawn, you might have been a little fluid-depleted. There is an outside chance it could be an anemia but you sure don't look like a guy with anemia.
    look above !!


    A decreased serum alkaline phosphatase may be due to:

    Zinc deficiency.
    Hypothyroidism.
    Vitamin C deficiency/Scurvy.
    Folic acid deficiency.
    Excess Vitamin D intake.
    Low phosphorus levels (hypophosphatasia)
    Celiac disease.
    Malnutrition with low protein assimilation (including low stomach acid production/hypochlorhydria).
    Insufficient Parathyroid gland function. -
    Pernicious anemia
    Vitamin B6 insufficiency

  23. Quote Originally Posted by cpeil2 View Post
    Your neutrophil count is a little low - but not so low that you need to worry about it. Your absolute lymphocyte count is normal. The differential count is off because the reduced neutrophil count threw off the ratios.

    I don't know what to make of the increased MCH (mean cellular hemoglobin). I suspect it is increased because at the time the blood was drawn, you might have been a little fluid-depleted. There is an outside chance it could be an anemia but you sure don't look like a guy with anemia.
    Yes! I am glad to hear you say that about my neutrophils and lymphocytes. Upon initial observation I immediately thought I had very high lymphocytes and began to worry about having certain diseases. But once I read more about the meaning of the tests (the absolute lymphocyte count is ok) I realized it probably wasnt a problem, and some people just have lower neutrophils naturally.

    I was probably was fluid depleted. I hadnt had water for about 10 hours at the time of the blood draw. Thanks for you analysis.

  24. Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973 View Post
    look above !!


    A decreased serum alkaline phosphatase may be due to:

    Zinc deficiency.
    Hypothyroidism.
    Vitamin C deficiency/Scurvy.
    Folic acid deficiency.
    Excess Vitamin D intake.
    Low phosphorus levels (hypophosphatasia)
    Celiac disease.
    Malnutrition with low protein assimilation (including low stomach acid production/hypochlorhydria).
    Insufficient Parathyroid gland function. -
    Pernicious anemia
    Vitamin B6 insufficiency

    What am I missing? He doesn't have low phosphorus, he doesn't have low alkaline phosphatase.

    Yes, his TSH is very elevated and needs to be checked out. I think others already commented on it.


    If he had anemia due to B6 or folate deficiency, one would expect to see increase in MCV. I still think a slight increase in MCH without any other RBC abrnormalities is probably not much to worry about.

    Note also that I did not say that he did not have anemia, only that it was unlikely.
  25. Unbreakable
    David Dunn's Avatar

    I'm no doctor. What is your bf%

    It is my understanding that extreme low bf% has the potential to be counterproductive to ones health.

    Like I said, I'm no Dr, just a thought.
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