2 years in the making....Fit4Lifes HRT Log

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    2 years in the making....Fit4Lifes HRT Log


    Today is officially my first day of TRT. After reading through SuferingEds and SoMdHunters logs Ive decided to start my own as well. I know in the past I could never learn enough and read enough experiences with TRT so hopefully this can help some people with their own problems in the future.

    How it Began
    The ripe age of 18 I was on spring break. Spent too much time awake and and partying and soaking up the sun and not enough time resting (and my diet consisted of Pizza and McDonalds every day). Anyways the night I got home I got really sick (strep throat?) and it took me about 2 weeks to recover from it, during that 2 weeks I ate nothing and did nothing. Im guessing my immmune system was shot due to spring break and the illness just made it much worse.

    Immediately following my illness I was noticeing symptoms of low T and I knew it. I went to my family Doc and told him everything. He made sure my testicle were normal size and said its not possible, he tested me for Diabetes and some STDs (unnecessary) and had me on my way. Very frustrating.

    Symptoms
    -Fatigue/Weakness
    -No sex drive
    -Trouble w erections at times
    -Depression (more like lack of desire to accomplish anything)
    -Weight loss/innabililty to gain muscle
    -Iritability
    -Very poor concentration and memory
    -Anxiety at times/lowered social skills

    Most of these are self explainitory. Just to put numbers in, Ive lostabout 20 lbs since this began 2 years ago. My performance in sports is horrible. In high school I was an all star at basebal, football, and basketball. I got a scholarship to play college basketball, but could no longer do it, so I quit. Weightlifting, boxing and football in my spair time has been much the same. I feel weak and tired.

    At one point I started taking a Tribulus product (herbal natural test booster) and it worked really good. Sex drive was strong and erections were amazing, but after about 2-3 weeks my body seems to stop reacting to it. So for a long time I was cycling on and off that with some success.

    About a year and a half after I first developed low T, I decided I had had enough and wanted to fix this for good. I went to another doctor, and got tested. My T levels showed up at about 430. He said it was fine and I dont blame him. It might have been fine for some people but was still low for me. The thing is though the test was scewed bcuz I had been on Trubulus and Cissus the week before.

    From there I decided to go to a local Endo. Exact same thing. T levels showed up around 450, which is low to me but they didnt know. Tests were screwed as well since I had again been on Trib and Cissus the week before. (I was too stupid to realize this was messing up my tests)

    Dr John to the Rescue
    I had had enough. I decided I was going to Dr John. Made and appointment and drove the distance. Had a good counseltation with him and he ordered some blood tests (this time I had been off Cissus and Trib for a good time).

    Tests came back:

    Total Test - 355 (245-1836)
    Free T - 13.3 (12.4-40)
    E2 - 32 (10-50)
    DHT - 37 (25-75)
    DHEA - 501 (110-510)
    Progesterone - 1.4 (<1.4)
    Prolactin - 7.7 (2-18)
    Andro - 135 (57-265)

    Free and total test was low. Progesterone high and DHT somewhat low. I was confused as to how my DHEA was pretty high but both T was low and E2 was normal low. Im thinking once we get DHT up, Progesterone will lower.

    Doc put me on 5% Testosterone Gel and I just did my first application. There really is very very little gel to put on, I was surprised. My only problem I guess is that it kinda started to flake almost looks like I have some dead skin (but its not). Is this what everyone calls frosting?

    Anyways, this has been my journey 2 years in the making, finally getting started. I still got a ways to go, itll prolly take a couple months to get everything on the right track.

    Trouble with close ones
    My girlfriend has been by me this whole way. It is very very hard to be in a relationship with no sex drive and trouble with wood. She has been amazing though. throughout the past 2 years I have somehow forced myself to keep her happy maybe once or twice a week, but the past month maybe only once. I actually just recently told her (2 weeks ago) what was wrong with me and that Im going to be on TRT. The biggest problem throughout that I just figured out is that she was starting to think she is not sexy enough and Im not attracted to her...haha I had to laugh at that and explain. She now understand that when Im back to being me again, she is gonna wish I wasnt...

    I also just rescently told my mother about all this...minus the ED problems lol. She was more worried about being on it for life and any sides and stuff. I showed her AllThingsMale.com and she looked over it and seems fine now, although she thinks Im just suffering from Depression (been through quite a bit past years).

    thats all
    :bb:

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    Quote Originally Posted by fit4life05 View Post
    Today is officially my first day of TRT. After reading through SuferingEds and SoMdHunters logs Ive decided to start my own as well. I know in the past I could never learn enough and read enough experiences with TRT so hopefully this can help some people with their own problems in the future.

    How it Began
    The ripe age of 18 I was on spring break. Spent too much time awake and and partying and soaking up the sun and not enough time resting (and my diet consisted of Pizza and McDonalds every day). Anyways the night I got home I got really sick (strep throat?) and it took me about 2 weeks to recover from it, during that 2 weeks I ate nothing and did nothing. Im guessing my immmune system was shot due to spring break and the illness just made it much worse.

    Immediately following my illness I was noticeing symptoms of low T and I knew it. I went to my family Doc and told him everything. He made sure my testicle were normal size and said its not possible, he tested me for Diabetes and some STDs (unnecessary) and had me on my way. Very frustrating.

    Symptoms
    -Fatigue/Weakness
    -No sex drive
    -Trouble w erections at times
    -Depression (more like lack of desire to accomplish anything)
    -Weight loss/innabililty to gain muscle
    -Iritability
    -Very poor concentration and memory

    Most of these are self explainitory. Just to put numbers in, Ive lostabout 20 lbs since this began 2 years ago. My performance in sports is horrible. In high school I was an all star at basebal, football, and basketball. I got a scholarship to play college basketball, but could no longer do it, so I quit. Weightlifting, boxing and football in my spair time has been much the same. I feel weak and tired.

    At one point I started taking a Tribulus product (herbal natural test booster) and it worked really good. Sex drive was strong and erections were amazing, but after about 2-3 weeks my body seems to stop reacting to it. So for a long time I was cycling on and off that with some success.

    About a year and a half after I first developed low T, I decided I had had enough and wanted to fix this for good. I went to another doctor, and got tested. My T levels showed up at about 430. He said it was fine and I dont blame him. It might have been fine for some people but was still low for me. The thing is though the test was scewed bcuz I had been on Trubulus and Cissus the week before.

    From there I decided to go to a local Endo. Exact same thing. T levels showed up around 450, which is low to me but they didnt know. Tests were screwed as well since I had again been on Trib and Cissus the week before. (I was too stupid to realize this was messing up my tests)

    Dr John to the Rescue
    I had had enough. I decided I was going to Dr John. Made and appointment and drove the distance. Had a good counseltation with him and he ordered some blood tests (this time I had been off Cissus and Trib for a good time).

    Tests came back:

    Total Test - 355 (245-1836)
    Free T - 13.3 (12.4-40)
    E2 - 32 (10-50)
    DHT - 37 (25-75)
    DHEA - 501 (110-510)
    Progesterone - 1.4 (<1.4)
    Prolactin - 7.7 (2-18)
    Andro - 135 (57-265)

    Free and total test was low. Progesterone high and DHT somewhat low. I was confused as to how my DHEA was pretty high but both T was low and E2 was normal low. Im thinking once we get DHT up, Progesterone will lower.

    Doc put me on 5% Testosterone Gel and I just did my first application. There really is very very little gel to put on, I was surprised. My only problem I guess is that it kinda started to flake almost looks like I have some dead skin (but its not). Is this what everyone calls frosting?

    Anyways, this has been my journey 2 years in the making, finally getting started. I still got a ways to go, itll prolly take a couple months to get everything on the right track.

    Trouble with close ones
    My girlfriend has been by me this whole way. It is very very hard to be in a relationship with no sex drive and trouble with wood. She has been amazing though. throughout the past 2 years I have somehow forced myself to keep her happy maybe once or twice a week, but the past month maybe only once. I actually just recently told her (2 weeks ago) what was wrong with me and that Im going to be on TRT. The biggest problem throughout that I just figured out is that she was starting to think she is not sexy enough and Im not attracted to her...haha I had to laugh at that and explain. She now understand that when Im back to being me again, she is gonna wish I wasnt...

    I also just rescently told my mother about all this...minus the ED problems lol. She was more worried about being on it for life and any sides and stuff. I showed her AllThingsMale.com and she looked over it and seems fine now, although she thinks Im just suffering from Depression (been through quite a bit past years).

    thats all
    :bb:
    Dr john is the man thats for sure,
    Since starting my injection 4 weeks ago (120mgs weekly) I went from 176 to 192 lbs. I get blood work done on monday to see where test levels are. I made some major adjustments in life meaning getting up at sun and getting an hour of morning sun with my walk and also shutting the computer off at 7 pm as sun light goes down. I feel this has made some of the most drastic changes since me being ill. Since dr took me off of cortef it been all down hill. Even adrenal support iosort was not strong enough. Finally I went to drug store and applied a dab of HC creame and I was back to my old self again in few days. I could not make him understand that when trying to increase thyroid with no adrenal support almost ended throughing me into a deep depression and horrible brain fog. All your hormones work in hormony and if one is out they all are affected..Keep with it bro you will be back to nomral in few months or at least feeling better then you were
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    My story is almost the exact same - Alcohol, bad diet and all around party lifestyle is what originally did me in.

    Thankfully, threw the past 2 years Ive climbed out of the hole I dug for myself and feeling better than ever. My one final issue is GH related.

    Good luck
    •   
       

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    i wish i would of penciled igf-1 on my blood work....oh well.... get it tested at a later date i guess

    keep us updated
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    Quote Originally Posted by fit4life05 View Post
    Today is officially my first day of TRT. After reading through SuferingEds and SoMdHunters logs Ive decided to start my own as well. I know in the past I could never learn enough and read enough experiences with TRT so hopefully this can help some people with their own problems in the future.

    How it Began
    The ripe age of 18 I was on spring break. Spent too much time awake and and partying and soaking up the sun and not enough time resting (and my diet consisted of Pizza and McDonalds every day). Anyways the night I got home I got really sick (strep throat?) and it took me about 2 weeks to recover from it, during that 2 weeks I ate nothing and did nothing. Im guessing my immmune system was shot due to spring break and the illness just made it much worse.

    Immediately following my illness I was noticeing symptoms of low T and I knew it. I went to my family Doc and told him everything. He made sure my testicle were normal size and said its not possible, he tested me for Diabetes and some STDs (unnecessary) and had me on my way. Very frustrating.

    Symptoms
    -Fatigue/Weakness
    -No sex drive
    -Trouble w erections at times
    -Depression (more like lack of desire to accomplish anything)
    -Weight loss/innabililty to gain muscle
    -Iritability
    -Very poor concentration and memory
    -Anxiety at times/lowered social skills

    Most of these are self explainitory. Just to put numbers in, Ive lostabout 20 lbs since this began 2 years ago. My performance in sports is horrible. In high school I was an all star at basebal, football, and basketball. I got a scholarship to play college basketball, but could no longer do it, so I quit. Weightlifting, boxing and football in my spair time has been much the same. I feel weak and tired.

    At one point I started taking a Tribulus product (herbal natural test booster) and it worked really good. Sex drive was strong and erections were amazing, but after about 2-3 weeks my body seems to stop reacting to it. So for a long time I was cycling on and off that with some success.

    About a year and a half after I first developed low T, I decided I had had enough and wanted to fix this for good. I went to another doctor, and got tested. My T levels showed up at about 430. He said it was fine and I dont blame him. It might have been fine for some people but was still low for me. The thing is though the test was scewed bcuz I had been on Trubulus and Cissus the week before.

    From there I decided to go to a local Endo. Exact same thing. T levels showed up around 450, which is low to me but they didnt know. Tests were screwed as well since I had again been on Trib and Cissus the week before. (I was too stupid to realize this was messing up my tests)

    Dr John to the Rescue
    I had had enough. I decided I was going to Dr John. Made and appointment and drove the distance. Had a good counseltation with him and he ordered some blood tests (this time I had been off Cissus and Trib for a good time).

    Tests came back:

    Total Test - 355 (245-1836) get Quest Diagnostics (free, BioAvailable and Total Testosterone)
    Free T - 13.3 (12.4-40)
    E2 - 32 (10-50)use LiquiDex to lower your high E2, use DIM+I3C+TMG+Resveratol to control estrogens
    DHT - 37 (25-75)
    DHEA - 501 (110-510)
    Progesterone - 1.4 (<1.4)
    Prolactin - 7.7 (2-18) it is high, Dr Shippen likes it at 3.0, I use Vitex (amazon.com) to make it lower)Andro - 135 (57-265)

    Free and total test was low. Progesterone high and DHT somewhat low. I was confused as to how my DHEA was pretty high but both T was low and E2 was normal low. Im thinking once we get DHT up, Progesterone will lower.

    Doc put me on 5% Testosterone Gel and I just did my first application. There really is very very little gel to put on, I was surprised. My only problem I guess is that it kinda started to flake almost looks like I have some dead skin (but its not). Is this what everyone calls frosting?

    Anyways, this has been my journey 2 years in the making, finally getting started. I still got a ways to go, itll prolly take a couple months to get everything on the right track.

    Trouble with close ones
    My girlfriend has been by me this whole way. It is very very hard to be in a relationship with no sex drive and trouble with wood. She has been amazing though. throughout the past 2 years I have somehow forced myself to keep her happy maybe once or twice a week, but the past month maybe only once. I actually just recently told her (2 weeks ago) what was wrong with me and that Im going to be on TRT. The biggest problem throughout that I just figured out is that she was starting to think she is not sexy enough and Im not attracted to her...haha I had to laugh at that and explain. She now understand that when Im back to being me again, she is gonna wish I wasnt...

    I also just rescently told my mother about all this...minus the ED problems lol. She was more worried about being on it for life and any sides and stuff. I showed her AllThingsMale.com and she looked over it and seems fine now, although she thinks Im just suffering from Depression (been through quite a bit past years).

    thats all
    :bb:
    Suggest you get my long blood test and do not use testosterone untill you do your tests, you may not need testosterone, you may need other stuff.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    Suggest you get my long blood test and do not use testosterone untill you do your tests, you may not need testosterone, you may need other stuff.
    What do you mean? I had alot more tests done I was just too lazy too put all of them on here....
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    Fit4Life05, your situation sounds almost exactly like mine, and our test results are similiar. let me know how you start to feel, i see shippen in a month.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fit4life05 View Post
    What do you mean? I had alot more tests done I was just too lazy too put all of them on here....
    OK, you post what you wish.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    OK, you post what you wish.
    I don't have the other tests on hand so I cant post them. I do remember by IGF was on the higher end and and thyroid tests all came back fine. Hydroxy Vit D was high. cant remember them all but they were all good.
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    Can you tell me if the gel is compounded or is it androgel or Teistim. If your frosting and it's androgel or testim you did not spread it out far enough. Also you should have your TT and FT testes after 2 weeks if your only doing 5 grams. Your brain can see the T from the gels in your blood and stop your testis from making T. So if your levels went up 200 more point for a total of 555 and your testis stop now your lower then your 355 your 355 is from your testis this can stop and your left with 200 this happens when the gels don't get through the skin good or the 5 gram dose is not high enough. So look for this if you feel good then go backwards this can be why.
    Quote Originally Posted by fit4life05 View Post
    I don't have the other tests on hand so I cant post them. I do remember by IGF was on the higher end and and thyroid tests all came back fine. Hydroxy Vit D was high. cant remember them all but they were all good.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmgamer18 View Post
    Can you tell me if the gel is compounded or is it androgel or Teistim. If your frosting and it's androgel or testim you did not spread it out far enough. Also you should have your TT and FT testes after 2 weeks if your only doing 5 grams. Your brain can see the T from the gels in your blood and stop your testis from making T. So if your levels went up 200 more point for a total of 555 and your testis stop now your lower then your 355 your 355 is from your testis this can stop and your left with 200 this happens when the gels don't get through the skin good or the 5 gram dose is not high enough. So look for this if you feel good then go backwards this can be why.
    It is Compound Gel, but from what I understand its basically Testim at 5% instead of 1%, not sure though.

    I was supposed to get tests at week 4, but will more likely be at week 4.5 or 5, since I will be out of town for a while.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fit4life05 View Post
    It is Compound Gel, but from what I understand its basically Testim at 5% instead of 1%, not sure though.

    I was supposed to get tests at week 4, but will more likely be at week 4.5 or 5, since I will be out of town for a while.
    If it's made like testim and your putting it on your forearms I can see why it's frosting. But I am betting it's nothing. Maybe Dr. John will post back on this.
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    hardasnails1973,

    What is HC cream? I hate when you guys use acronyms. I am guessing hydrocortisone cream? If you have low adrenal and try this should I feel better? I am going to go on thyroid so I am very interested in learning about adrenals.
    What test did you have for adrenal? Cortisol?

    Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973 View Post
    Dr john is the man thats for sure,
    Since starting my injection 4 weeks ago (120mgs weekly) I went from 176 to 192 lbs. I get blood work done on monday to see where test levels are. I made some major adjustments in life meaning getting up at sun and getting an hour of morning sun with my walk and also shutting the computer off at 7 pm as sun light goes down. I feel this has made some of the most drastic changes since me being ill. Since dr took me off of cortef it been all down hill. Even adrenal support iosort was not strong enough. Finally I went to drug store and applied a dab of HC creame and I was back to my old self again in few days. I could not make him understand that when trying to increase thyroid with no adrenal support almost ended throughing me into a deep depression and horrible brain fog. All your hormones work in hormony and if one is out they all are affected..Keep with it bro you will be back to nomral in few months or at least feeling better then you were
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    Quote Originally Posted by aculpep View Post
    hardasnails1973,

    What is HC cream? I hate when you guys use acronyms. I am guessing hydrocortisone cream? If you have low adrenal and try this should I feel better? I am going to go on thyroid so I am very interested in learning about adrenals.
    What test did you have for adrenal? Cortisol?
    It was used s last resort to hold me over till I could get more oral HC. Do not use it as a primary source and please run adrenal salivia test or free urine before taking it ..Adrenals must be supported first before thyroid so if you are not on thyroid and thinking about it get adrenal test done first to see if they can handle the stress from the thyroid ..
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    Quote Originally Posted by aculpep View Post
    hardasnails1973,

    What is HC cream? I hate when you guys use acronyms. I am guessing hydrocortisone cream? If you have low adrenal and try this should I feel better? I am going to go on thyroid so I am very interested in learning about adrenals.
    What test did you have for adrenal? Cortisol?
    Here is a good link helped me understand my low Aldosterone levels.
    Adrenal Glands
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    Thanks brother, I appreciate that. My doctor is going to training on cortisol so she should be all learned up on that when she gets back. But I didnt know about not going on thyroid if low on adrenal. Might be why my friend is having problems now. She felt good for awhile then she said kinda quit helping. (thyroid)

    Quote Originally Posted by pmgamer18 View Post
    Here is a good link helped me understand my low Aldosterone levels.
    Adrenal Glands
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    Yes if you have low cortisol levels or adrenal fatigue going Armour doing a dose of over 90 mgs will make you feel hyper or have you going to the ER thinking your having a heart attack.
    You need cortisol to carry the thyroid meds out of the blood into the cells. If your low it builds up on the blood.
    Stop The Thyroid Madness Mistakes Patients Make (or their Doctors make for them!)
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    9 day update

    might be too early to report anything but im not noticing much

    i still get the frosting...one day i tried to apply it on my shoulder and still a bit of frosting

    last few days ive been in the dumps

    testicles still seem the same size, hard to tell. either means it hasnt been long enough to shut me down or not much T is getting absorbed

    ill def give it more time before i judge whether its working though

    im sick of being skinney after all the weight ive lost, wish i had some ambition and energy to hit the weights (been a few months)

    sex drive still down, erection take a while to get up still

    blah blah blah lol, ill update again in a week or so...working 12 hour days for now, great fun
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    2 week update

    the gel is still frosting, even if i rub on the shoulder

    not feeling anything diff still. seems like one sec im in a great mood and the next in a horrible one

    i managed to get a random erection one night while laying around w the gf, but she was on her period imagine that

    today i got sick of how much weight and strength ive lost....around 30 lbs now. so im forcing myself to lift again, even though its nearly impossible to add much strength or weight, im just sick off being sickly skinney.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fit4life05 View Post
    2 week update

    the gel is still frosting, even if i rub on the shoulder

    not feeling anything diff still. seems like one sec im in a great mood and the next in a horrible one

    i managed to get a random erection one night while laying around w the gf, but she was on her period imagine that

    today i got sick of how much weight and strength ive lost....around 30 lbs now. so im forcing myself to lift again, even though its nearly impossible to add much strength or weight, im just sick off being sickly skinney.
    after 2 weeks lab tests and if still not budging goto shots
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    3 week update

    the gel is still frosting pretty bad. i tried once or twice on the shoulder and still. i just dont think the gel is right for me, im really hoping i can just switch to injections, ill see about this in a week or 2 when i have my next consultation

    no sex in prolly a month. cant beleive it i just have no want for it like i should. thank god my gf doesnt mind too much but i dont want to put her through it too much longer

    been pretty depressed last few days for no reason whatsoever, also seems like ive been a little anxious, not for anything imparticular just in general, not a great feeling

    ill be getting labs next week hopefully tuesday or wednesday. my insurance didnt pick up my last blood tests since it was considered "infertility treatment" im trying to get that all fixed so i dont have to shell out over 1k for them. if that isnt sorted out i may just end up doing the rhein urinary panel and pay the 225 for that
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    Quote Originally Posted by fit4life05 View Post
    3 week update

    the gel is still frosting pretty bad. i tried once or twice on the shoulder and still. i just dont think the gel is right for me, im really hoping i can just switch to injections, ill see about this in a week or 2 when i have my next consultation

    no sex in prolly a month. cant beleive it i just have no want for it like i should. thank god my gf doesnt mind too much but i dont want to put her through it too much longer

    been pretty depressed last few days for no reason whatsoever, also seems like ive been a little anxious, not for anything imparticular just in general, not a great feeling

    ill be getting labs next week hopefully tuesday or wednesday. my insurance didnt pick up my last blood tests since it was considered "infertility treatment" im trying to get that all fixed so i dont have to shell out over 1k for them. if that isnt sorted out i may just end up doing the rhein urinary panel and pay the 225 for that
    Frosting may indicate other problems.
    Have you checked adrenals and thyroid?
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    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    Frosting may indicate other problems.
    Have you checked adrenals and thyroid?
    I've heard that but my cortisol, and thyroids are fine....which all are involved when you say adrenals?
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    Quote Originally Posted by fit4life05 View Post
    I've heard that but my cortisol, and thyroids are fine....which all are involved when you say adrenals?
    I am not really much familiar with the subject, but as first step
    I would start checking:

    Renin
    Aldosterone
    Cortisol AM/PM
    DHEA sulfate
    ==============================
    Read also
    EndoManual 3rdEd 2004
    http://www.questdiagnostics.com/hcp/...3rdEd_2004.pdf

    Page 178 and following.
    Disorders of Adrenal funcion
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    4 week update

    Well the depression and anxiety was pretty horrible at the beginning of the week but it has pretty much disapeared since then and now i feel a lot better. i really have no idea what the depression and anxiety was from there was no reason for it, but it sucked. oh well im stayin busy now and its gone

    sex drive and all that is down still although i did have sex w the gf a few days ago (first attempt in about 5 weeks). i also managed to rub one out b y myself later lol, weird, i kinda forced it though to see if it was possible

    if kinda in a pickle with my next blood test that i should have already taken. im trying to get dr john to resubmit my last blood test under a new code since my insurance doesnt cover infertility treatment, as of now im gonna have to pay for that one at 1,700 bux....i sent him an email a while ago and still no response, i know hes busy though.

    i plan on asking him to switch me to injections, sucks having to wait
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    Quote Originally Posted by fit4life05 View Post
    4 week update

    Well the depression and anxiety was pretty horrible at the beginning of the week but it has pretty much disapeared since then and now i feel a lot better. i really have no idea what the depression and anxiety was from there was no reason for it, but it sucked. oh well im stayin busy now and its gone

    sex drive and all that is down still although i did have sex w the gf a few days ago (first attempt in about 5 weeks). i also managed to rub one out b y myself later lol, weird, i kinda forced it though to see if it was possible
    if kinda in a pickle with my next blood test that i should have already taken. im trying to get dr john to resubmit my last blood test under a new code since my insurance doesnt cover infertility treatment, as of now im gonna have to pay for that one at 1,700 bux....i sent him an email a while ago and still no response, i know hes busy though.

    i plan on asking him to switch me to injections, sucks having to wait
    I did that a last week once, when I was not on anything (cialis). Just to see if I could with out Cialis and I did. So now I just need to get rid of this anxiety.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SufferingEd View Post
    I did that a last week once, when I was not on anything (cialis). Just to see if I could with out Cialis and I did. So now I just need to get rid of this anxiety.
    I think we're both in the same boat, erection strength isnt as strong as it should be, but despite that, the extremely low sex drive is the worst of the 2.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fit4life05 View Post
    I think we're both in the same boat, erection strength isnt as strong as it should be, but despite that, the extremely low sex drive is the worst of the 2.
    I couldn't agree with you more. With Cialis I've got the erection strength back. My sex drive is still low though. Once we have sex I feel I could actaully go a week or more before we have it again. And Playboys, Nude pictures, ect still do nothing for me. That is what is killing me. I use to want sex everyday, now I am just hoping to want to have sex.
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    5 week update

    same as before

    im going to call and leave dr j a message tommorow about getting a rhein urinary panel. this whole thing with the insurance is kinda mess and im sure will take a long time to get fixed.

    im hoping my tgel doesnt run out by the time i get the panel results, have a consultation, then (hopefully) get switched to injections...i only have 3 weeks of t gel left

    as of now i have to dish out 1,750 bux for my last blood work. my insurance is saying that hypogonadism is the same as infertility, we'll see how this ends up
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    Quote Originally Posted by fit4life05 View Post
    5 week update

    same as before

    im going to call and leave dr j a message tommorow about getting a rhein urinary panel. this whole thing with the insurance is kinda mess and im sure will take a long time to get fixed.

    im hoping my tgel doesnt run out by the time i get the panel results, have a consultation, then (hopefully) get switched to injections...i only have 3 weeks of t gel left

    as of now i have to dish out 1,750 bux for my last blood work. my insurance is saying that hypogonadism is the same as infertility, we'll see how this ends up
    Without proper diagnosis insurance will not pay.
    Tell your doctor to put all this ICD-9 codes on any insurance claims or bloot test scripts.
    If your odctor comes up with other numbers, please post them here.

    257.2
    272.4
    601.9
    780.4
    780.79
    788.41
    253.3
    255.8


    ============================== ===========
    This is what those numbers mean:
    ===============
    ICD9Data.com - Free 2007 ICD-9-CM Medical Coding Database
    257.2 Other testicular hypofunction 2007 ICD-9-CM Diagnosis 257.2 - Other Testicular Hypofunction
    272.4 Other and unspecified hyperlipidemia 2007 ICD-9-CM Diagnosis 272.* - Disorders of lipoid metabolism
    601.9 Prostatitis unspecified 2007 ICD-9-CM Diagnosis 601.* - Inflammatory diseases of prostate
    780.4 Dizziness and giddiness 2007 ICD-9-CM Diagnosis 780.4 - Dizziness And Giddiness
    780.79 Other malaise and fatigue 2007 ICD-9-CM Diagnosis 780.79 - Other Malaise And Fatigue
    788.41 Urinary frequency 2007 ICD-9-CM Diagnosis 788.41 - Urinary Frequency
    253.3 Adult Onset Growth Hormone Deficiency
    255.8 Other specified disorders of adrenal glands 2007 ICD-9-CM Diagnosis 255.8 - Other Specified Disorders Of Adrenal Glands
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    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    Without proper diagnosis insurance will not pay.
    Tell your doctor to put all this ICD-9 codes on any insurance claims or bloot test scripts.
    If your odctor comes up with other numbers, please post them here.

    257.2
    272.4
    601.9
    780.4
    780.79
    788.41
    253.3
    255.8


    ============================== ===========
    This is what those numbers mean:
    ===============
    ICD9Data.com - Free 2007 ICD-9-CM Medical Coding Database
    257.2 Other testicular hypofunction 2007 ICD-9-CM Diagnosis 257.2 - Other Testicular Hypofunction
    272.4 Other and unspecified hyperlipidemia 2007 ICD-9-CM Diagnosis 272.* - Disorders of lipoid metabolism
    601.9 Prostatitis unspecified 2007 ICD-9-CM Diagnosis 601.* - Inflammatory diseases of prostate
    780.4 Dizziness and giddiness 2007 ICD-9-CM Diagnosis 780.4 - Dizziness And Giddiness
    780.79 Other malaise and fatigue 2007 ICD-9-CM Diagnosis 780.79 - Other Malaise And Fatigue
    788.41 Urinary frequency 2007 ICD-9-CM Diagnosis 788.41 - Urinary Frequency
    253.3 Adult Onset Growth Hormone Deficiency
    255.8 Other specified disorders of adrenal glands 2007 ICD-9-CM Diagnosis 255.8 - Other Specified Disorders Of Adrenal Glands
    thanks, he put 257.2 on the blood test. my insuarnce wont cover it cuz they say its infertility treatment. i finally got a response from dr john after i asked him to change it to whichever it was for fatigue, but he responded by saying he couldnt cuz itd be insurance fraud and that the insurance made a mistake cuz 257.2 (hypogonadism) is not the same as infertility which is a completely diff code

    haha so now we have to write a letter to quest diagnostics and the insuraunce which im sure will take forever
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    Quote Originally Posted by fit4life05 View Post
    thanks, he put 257.2 on the blood test. my insuarnce wont cover it cuz they say its infertility treatment. i finally got a response from dr john after i asked him to change it to whichever it was for fatigue, but he responded by saying he couldnt cuz itd be insurance fraud and that the insurance made a mistake cuz 257.2 (hypogonadism) is not the same as infertility which is a completely diff code

    haha so now we have to write a letter to quest diagnostics and the insuraunce which im sure will take forever
    There is very low awareness in regard to ICD-9 codes.

    ICD-9 codes are not being discussed often enough.

    But it is only about (patients) money, so who cares.

    If you come with other numbers than I posted please post it here.

    Insurance fraud is one part (and highly) improbable,
    I would use a word carelessness on the part of the doctor and when patient is trying to implement change it is convenient to use "fraud" as poor excuse.

    I am speaking from personal experience with my GP, otherwise very cooperative (and charitable).
    It took me couple cups of coffee with his nurse to come up with set of numbers. Luckily the nurse goes to the same church I do.
    Once the numbers were known the good doc had no problem whatsoever using them.
    ----------------------------------------
    Dealing with insurance, when all the paperwork is correct presents new set of chalenges.
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    ok i have a consultation w dr john tuesday
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    ok im not even sure what day this is, but i have 13 days left on my tgel

    i just had an appt with dr john and he is allowing me to switch to injections...200mg the first week, followed by 100mg per week then labs at 6 weeks
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    Quote Originally Posted by fit4life05 View Post
    ok im not even sure what day this is, but i have 13 days left on my tgel

    i just had an appt with dr john and he is allowing me to switch to injections...200mg the first week, followed by 100mg per week then labs at 6 weeks
    May want to check charts on two of the last posts here:

    Jan's BloodTest April13/2007

    Charts done using Roid Calculator mentioned eaelier in the thread.
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    Just had my first injection, 200mg frontloaded. Drew w a 20g and shot w a 25g - 1inch. Tried first innjection into right thigh. Went in fine then I tried to push it in just a tad further and my muscle jumped, im guessing I hit a nerve. No pain at all and barely any blood just a bit scary.

    I pulled out immediately, switched to a new needle and went for the left thigh, but a but more to the side and didnt try to go quite as deep. Asperated, no blood so I shot it in pretty slow, wasnt tough at all though. I then left the needle there for about 10 secs (supposed to keep the oil from possibly coming out so Ive heard).

    As of now no pain at all and it went pretty decent for my first shot, I was scared a tad tho after that nerve. Gotta man up so I can finally man up again lol. Ill be expecting some pretty sore thighs tommorow!
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    Quote Originally Posted by fit4life05 View Post
    Just had my first injection, 200mg frontloaded. Drew w a 20g and shot w a 25g - 1inch. Tried first innjection into right thigh. Went in fine then I tried to push it in just a tad further and my muscle jumped, im guessing I hit a nerve. No pain at all and barely any blood just a bit scary.

    I pulled out immediately, switched to a new needle and went for the left thigh, but a but more to the side and didnt try to go quite as deep. Asperated, no blood so I shot it in pretty slow, wasnt tough at all though. I then left the needle there for about 10 secs (supposed to keep the oil from possibly coming out so Ive heard).

    As of now no pain at all and it went pretty decent for my first shot, I was scared a tad tho after that nerve. Gotta man up so I can finally man up again lol. Ill be expecting some pretty sore thighs tommorow!
    I do not want to driwe nails into my muscles.
    I do my SubQ T shots around navel using the smallest needle that I could find.
    http://hocks.com/Merchant2/merchant....Category_Code=
    BD Ultrafine II U-100 Insulin Syringe 31 Gauge 3/10cc 5/16inch Short Needle--1/2 Unit Markings 100/b Price: $25.95

    There is also same size
    http://hocks.com/Merchant2/merchant....Category_Code=
    Easy Touch U-100 Insulin Syringe 31 Gauge 3/10cc 5/16 inch Short Needle 100/Box Sale Price: $13.99
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    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    I do not want to driwe nails into my muscles.
    I do my SubQ T shots around navel using the smallest needle that I could find.
    http://hocks.com/Merchant2/merchant....Category_Code=
    BD Ultrafine II U-100 Insulin Syringe 31 Gauge 3/10cc 5/16inch Short Needle--1/2 Unit Markings 100/b Price: $25.95

    There is also same size
    http://hocks.com/Merchant2/merchant....Category_Code=
    Easy Touch U-100 Insulin Syringe 31 Gauge 3/10cc 5/16 inch Short Needle 100/Box Sale Price: $13.99
    i do think i would like subq more but 1) i read on meso subq is more prone to dht and e2 conversion 2) that would be a ton of injections into the navel per week taking hgc into account as well

    right?
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    Quote Originally Posted by fit4life05 View Post
    i do think i would like subq more but 1) i read on meso subq is more prone to dht and e2 conversion 2) that would be a ton of injections into the navel per week taking hgc into account as well

    right?
    The extra amount from going subq versus intramuscular is

    1. So slight its a mute point
    2. Most are on E2 controlling anyways(either herbal or adex)
    3. The extra DHT is beneficial anyways
    4. Needes in the fat is no biggie, its stored bodyfat it gets removed/replaced anyways.
    5. I dunno how I would do it, given I am very lean(about as lean as that CF10 guy, little less muscle)
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    Quote Originally Posted by fit4life05 View Post
    i do think i would like subq more but 1) i read on meso subq is more prone to dht and e2 conversion 2) that would be a ton of injections into the navel per week taking hgc into account as well

    right?
    There is big difference making frequent shots using
    25g - 1inch
    and
    31ga - 5/16"

    I think the less frequent T injections the more E & DHT problems due to rise and fall of T levels.
    Also incorrect (too large dose) of HCG increases E2 (supposedly).
    I will know more how I am affected in September after my blood test. In the mean time I am enjoying my E3D (T & HCG) on the same day routine.

    Btw, the shots are not in to navel, they are 1.5 to 3" from navel. Think of donut, inside circle 3" outside 6".
    It is about 4 shots per week, two shots at each session.
    ============================== ===================
    Actually there is a insuline pen, with even shorter needle,
    31ga 3/16"
    I will have to investigate that latter.
    If someone knows how insuline pen works, that is, is it possible to fill it in from Depo-T vial,
    please chime in.
  

  
 

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