This poor bastard !!

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    This poor bastard !!


    The chicken or the Egg?
    I'm not sure when I actually became hypogonadic. I think I was about 25. I went through puberty, etc. OK, but suddenly at 25 I started gaining weight and began to lose interest in a social life. I had all the signs of depression. My first encounter with an endocrinologist was about 6 years later, when my thyroid started acting up. At that time I questioned him about measuring my Testosterone levels, and he blew me off, saying, "if you have to shave, your hormones are OK".
    Another 8 years went by and I started getting short of breath all the time. This time I was told I had asthma. After a year of meds and no results, I was so bad I could hardly walk out to my car without getting breathless. I finally insisted on seeing a specialist. After numerous tests and a nasty surgery to remove a chunk of my lungs, (the only way to get a sure diagnosis), they finally told me I have Sarcoidosis, an immune system disorder where your body basically attacks itself - usually in the lungs. They put me on prednisone, which I'm still on, but there was still something else wrong and I knew it.

    One day a friend told me he had been diagnosed with osteoporosis. They had linked it to low Testosterone. For some reason, A light bulb went off and I just KNEW that was my problem. I made an appointment with his endo and told her my story and basically insisted that she test me for everything. The results - Testosterone level 136, FSH and LH very low. Classic secondary hypogonadism. I made her do more tests and we found out I was diabetic, had osteoporosis, and had a high IGF-1 level. Lovely!

    Anyway, the doctors have no idea what got me to this state, but I firmly believe it started with low Testosterone levels, which screws up the immune system, which led to all the other mess.

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    I understand totally. I have been through lots of problems myself with symptoms of hormonal imbalance i.e. low testosterone. I will hopefully get my T level results soon. Basically from bowel trouble, anal soreness, prostate trouble, weak ejaculation, premature ejaculation, very low labido, irritability, stress, insomnia, becoming delusional, being unable to gain weight etc etc. The thing is I have always been a very positive person that looked forward to things so felt my anxiety and dysfunction to be very external

    I think the main thing that clicked for me was when I found that there actually IS A REASON why the genitals atrophy that isn't completely psychological i.e. lowT/High E2 ratio and this can also mirror symptoms of depression! I used to be really hung and ridiculously horny so this has been a killer for me. I am only 22 and need viagra to really use my equipment, that doesn't feel very natural but neccessary.

    I have done everything I can to keep myself in general good health besides this so hopefully I can get back to something like my former self. I find ZMA, fish oil along with Vit E are good suppliments to help you with this horrible condition, I wouldn't wish it on anyone
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    I actually can empathize with you because it sounds a lot like what I have had issues with except that I haven't been diagnosed with anything and I got tired of going to the doctors so I just deal as best as I can. **** it i'm tired and have too much to deal with to try and fight the doctors.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973 View Post
    The chicken or the Egg?
    I'm not sure when I actually became hypogonadic. I think I was about 25. I went through puberty, etc. OK, but suddenly at 25 I started gaining weight and began to lose interest in a social life. I had all the signs of depression. My first encounter with an endocrinologist was about 6 years later, when my thyroid started acting up. At that time I questioned him about measuring my Testosterone levels, and he blew me off, saying, "if you have to shave, your hormones are OK".
    Another 8 years went by and I started getting short of breath all the time. This time I was told I had asthma. After a year of meds and no results, I was so bad I could hardly walk out to my car without getting breathless. I finally insisted on seeing a specialist. After numerous tests and a nasty surgery to remove a chunk of my lungs, (the only way to get a sure diagnosis), they finally told me I have Sarcoidosis, an immune system disorder where your body basically attacks itself - usually in the lungs. They put me on prednisone, which I'm still on, but there was still something else wrong and I knew it.

    One day a friend told me he had been diagnosed with osteoporosis. They had linked it to low Testosterone. For some reason, A light bulb went off and I just KNEW that was my problem. I made an appointment with his endo and told her my story and basically insisted that she test me for everything. The results - Testosterone level 136, FSH and LH very low. Classic secondary hypogonadism. I made her do more tests and we found out I was diabetic, had osteoporosis, and had a high IGF-1 level. Lovely!

    Anyway, the doctors have no idea what got me to this state, but I firmly believe it started with low Testosterone levels, which screws up the immune system, which led to all the other mess.
    Post your blood tests.
    Add T
    control E2
    support Adrenals/thyroid
    lots of vitamins, minerals, probiotics

    Keep hormones (BAT, E2, DHEA, FreeT3) in correct range (by frequent testing and dose adjustment) for a year.

    After a year of above routine many of your current symptoms should disapper.
    Deal with a balance of symptoms.

    Post here on your progress.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    Post your blood tests.
    Add T
    control E2
    support Adrenals/thyroid
    lots of vitamins, minerals, probiotics

    Keep hormones (BAT, E2, DHEA, FreeT3) in correct range (by frequent testing and dose adjustment) for a year.

    After a year of above routine many of your current symptoms should disapper.
    Deal with a balance of symptoms.

    Post here on your progress.

    This is not me but very similar. i have been pissing out large quanties of sarcosine which indicates muscle wasting and also i research low creatinine levels urinay and came out low testosterone is related GO FIGURE !!
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973 View Post
    This is not me but very similar. i have been pissing out large quanties of sarcosine which indicates muscle wasting and also i research low creatinine levels urinay and came out low testosterone is related GO FIGURE !!

    Sarcosine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Recently, sarcosine has been investigated in relation to the mental illness schizophrenia. Early evidence suggests that intake of 2 g/day sarcosine as add-on therapy to certain antipsychotics (not clozapine[1]) in schizophrenia gives significant additional reductions in both positive and negative symptomatology as well as the neurocognitive, general psychiatric and depressive symptoms that are common to the illness. Sarcosine had been tolerated well.[2] It is also under investigation for the possible prevention of schizophrenic illness during the prodromal stage of the disease. It acts as a type 1 glycine transporter inhibitor. It increases glycine concentrations in the brain thus causing increased NMDA receptor activation and a reduction in symptoms. As such, it might be an interesting treatment option and a possible new direction in the treatment of the mental illness in the future.
    =============================
    sarcosine: Definition and Much More from Answers.com


    Adding sarcosine, but not D-serine, to risperidone improves symptoms in people with acute phase schizophrenia -- Heresco-Levy 9 (2): 48 -- Evidence-Based Mental Health


    Entrez PubMed
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    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    Sarcosine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Recently, sarcosine has been investigated in relation to the mental illness schizophrenia. Early evidence suggests that intake of 2 g/day sarcosine as add-on therapy to certain antipsychotics (not clozapine[1]) in schizophrenia gives significant additional reductions in both positive and negative symptomatology as well as the neurocognitive, general psychiatric and depressive symptoms that are common to the illness. Sarcosine had been tolerated well.[2] It is also under investigation for the possible prevention of schizophrenic illness during the prodromal stage of the disease. It acts as a type 1 glycine transporter inhibitor. It increases glycine concentrations in the brain thus causing increased NMDA receptor activation and a reduction in symptoms. As such, it might be an interesting treatment option and a possible new direction in the treatment of the mental illness in the future.
    =============================
    sarcosine: Definition and Much More from Answers.com


    Adding sarcosine, but not D-serine, to risperidone improves symptoms in people with acute phase schizophrenia -- Heresco-Levy 9 (2): 48 -- Evidence-Based Mental Health


    Entrez PubMed

    Elevated sarcosine is functioinal b-12/folic acid deficeincy and folininc acid plugs this hole as well as b2 and also testosterone
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    For me the worst part of this nightmare has been the fact that from day one, not on eperson believed me. I remember being 15 and telling my mother I felt something was very wrong. She said "your just depressed" and kinda smiled.

    After feeling lousy for 8 more years I told a dr I thought my testosterone was low. He said "thats very rare" and brushed me off. Damn if he had only tested me then....I freakin hate that man.

    I have always had jobs well beneath me and used to get in trouble for "appearing to have a bad attitude". I would crash three or four times a day and was in pain the entire day while trying to work. I doubt three percent of my co-workers would of gone to work feeling like I did. I went a year without missing a day.

    Then it got to the point where I couldnt work full time. I was called lazy, not motivated, a deadbeat and worthless....by my own family.

    Once I found a dr who prescibes mostly natual meds....my family told me continously it would not work and again said "youre just depressed".

    Then I found this board and started talking to like minded people in real life. I basically told my dr what to give me and he gave it to me.

    Now I am starting to finally feel better and my numbers bare this out.

    But why did I have to go through all of that???? I have lost half my life to this and 18 years of money I did not make. Its funny how so many drs are wrong in ways that make them the most money over time.

    I am not bitter (ok a little) but see that as analagous to the fact that my bank never makes a mistake and puts too much money in my account. In that case....is it really a mistake?
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    Quote Originally Posted by spinn View Post
    For me the worst part of this nightmare has been the fact that from day one, not on eperson believed me. I remember being 15 and telling my mother I felt something was very wrong. She said "your just depressed" and kinda smiled.

    After feeling lousy for 8 more years I told a dr I thought my testosterone was low. He said "thats very rare" and brushed me off. Damn if he had only tested me then....I freakin hate that man.

    I have always had jobs well beneath me and used to get in trouble for "appearing to have a bad attitude". I would crash three or four times a day and was in pain the entire day while trying to work. I doubt three percent of my co-workers would of gone to work feeling like I did. I went a year without missing a day.

    Then it got to the point where I couldnt work full time. I was called lazy, not motivated, a deadbeat and worthless....by my own family.

    Once I found a dr who prescibes mostly natual meds....my family told me continously it would not work and again said "youre just depressed".

    Then I found this board and started talking to like minded people in real life. I basically told my dr what to give me and he gave it to me.

    Now I am starting to finally feel better and my numbers bare this out.

    But why did I have to go through all of that???? I have lost half my life to this and 18 years of money I did not make. Its funny how so many drs are wrong in ways that make them the most money over time.

    I am not bitter (ok a little) but see that as analagous to the fact that my bank never makes a mistake and puts too much money in my account. In that case....is it really a mistake?
    Well said! I think the overwhelming majority of us on here had years of runaround from doctors and being treated like a hypochondriac nutcase.
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    Everyone thought I was just making **** up as well. It's sad when you feel better because you find out you're messed up siomply because you can show people you weren't nuts.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayhawkk View Post
    Everyone thought I was just making **** up as well. It's sad when you feel better because you find out you're messed up siomply because you can show people you weren't nuts.
    haha so true

    somewhat happy when the test reults come back messed up....at least u know ur done searching for wtf is wrong and can hopefully get started on fixing it
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    Quote Originally Posted by fit4life05 View Post
    haha so true

    somewhat happy when the test reults come back messed up....at least u know ur done searching for wtf is wrong and can hopefully get started on fixing it
    Same thing here. I go into the drs and testosterone comes back 40 and t4 to t3 conversion altered. All he did was handed me paxil and 2.5 grams of androgel. I was like WTF. He knew I was a bodybuilder and knew I put my body through hell and that I had eaten bad food, but there was no further investigation done. His diagnosis was depression.
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    Depression and anxiety are very, very common diagnosis. I think they get kickbacks from the drug companies to rx ambien
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. John View Post
    Let's pat him on the back for prescribing TRT in the first place. Becoming expert in TRT is a different matter.
    I like this point of view.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by fit4life05
    haha so true

    Same thing here. I go into the drs and testosterone comes back 40 and t4 to t3 conversion altered. All he did was handed me paxil and 2.5 grams of androgel. I was like WTF. He knew I was a bodybuilder and knew I put my body through hell and that I had eaten bad food, but there was no further investigation done. His diagnosis was depression.
    So you were a bodybuilder or just into the fitness scene? I find myself currently really getting into not exactly doing bodybuilding competetions or anything but living the lifestyle to some extent. I like the challenging of transforming my body so to speak.
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    Quote Originally Posted by magic8989 View Post
    So you were a bodybuilder or just into the fitness scene? I find myself currently really getting into not exactly doing bodybuilding competetions or anything but living the lifestyle to some extent. I like the challenging of transforming my body so to speak.
    I was a national level competitior and got stricken by an intestinal infection from contiminated fish that wiped me out completely. Ended up losing over 60 lbs of muscle and battling dr for over 3 years to look at the cause instead of the effect. Goto dr complaining of intestinal distress after 2 days of having a large quanity of sushi and go home with paxil. Right now just trying to get my hormones back from the infection. it destroyed my whole endocrine system. Thyrouid adrenals tesotsterone. Drs tried to blame it on steroids. I had not did them for over 9 months and I was perfectly healthy before I had the damn fish to begin with..
    I felt best on hcg, and tcreame 5%, 20 mgs cortef, 25 mcgs t-3 and had gained 15 solid lbs in 2 weeks, but under drs orders i came off and worst mistake of my life !!
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973

    I was a national level competitior and got stricken by an intestinal infection from contiminated fish that wiped me out completely. Ended up losing over 60 lbs of muscle and battling dr for over 3 years to look at the cause instead of the effect. Goto dr complaining of intestinal distress after 2 days of having a large quanity of sushi and go home with paxil. Right now just trying to get my hormones back from the infection. it destroyed my whole endocrine system. Thyrouid adrenals tesotsterone. Drs tried to blame it on steroids. I had not did them for over 9 months and I was perfectly healthy before I had the damn fish to begin with..
    I felt best on hcg, and tcreame 5%, 20 mgs cortef, 25 mcgs t-3 and had gained 15 solid lbs in 2 weeks, but under drs orders i came off and worst mistake of my life !!
    Thanks for the reply. Sorry to hear about what happened. Do you have an aspirations of getting back into it?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. John View Post
    So you were using steroids, or were you "natural".
    Completely clean, healthy (thyroid in upper 1/3 range, now it in the gutter) as a horse 9 months before being infected, I was bigger clean then when I was using, because I knew my body and freinds called me a freak at 210 lean 5'9.
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    Quote Originally Posted by magic8989 View Post
    Thanks for the reply. Sorry to hear about what happened. Do you have an aspirations of getting back into it?
    Yes and I will be back on stage once i get my hormones adjusted to optimal level.. I was making incredible progress on the the procotol I was using before 25 mgs DHEA am and pm, 1 ml 5% tcreame, t-3, 20 mgs cortef, hcg 250 ius EOD getting leaner stronger bench was back to 315 for a few not like 500 I was before I got sick, but it was a start and life was returning to normal as well as my zest. Right now on 5% tcreame and feeling descent, but there is something still missing. I am witing for the dr to get around to it to order the urine test but its been 10 days and stil have not heard back from him. Jansz I will be calling your dr in a few days. I been on strickly this for 4-6 weeks and needs to be rechecked..
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    My healtcare platform will be as follows:

    Currently I pay $300 a month for insurance. My company is a startup and doesnt provide it. Most people who work for large companies pay $60 a month or so and the company picks up the other $240.

    This plan will still have you pay $60 but that will go towards an insurance policy with a $5000 deductible. The other $240 will be paid to you by your company and you can either get insurance or keep the money.

    You will have to pay cash for all doctors appointments until you reach the $5000 deductible at which point the insurance will kick in. This will accomplish two things. It will cause doctors to be much more accountable to their patients because people will be furious if they give their dr $1000 and he does nothing or gives people bad advice. It will also cause people to take care of themselves because they will be rewarded by not having to spend money for healthcare that year and get to keep the $3000. Why should I pay the same for insurance as someone who drinks every day, eats all the wrong foods and doesnt work out?

    I spent $1000 in April on healthcare, roughly half of my take home pay, and got absolutely nothing out of it. This will make both me and my doctor much more accountable.
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    Quote Originally Posted by spinn View Post
    My healtcare platform will be as follows:

    Currently I pay $300 a month for insurance. My company is a startup and doesnt provide it. Most people who work for large companies pay $60 a month or so and the company picks up the other $240.

    This plan will still have you pay $60 but that will go towards an insurance policy with a $5000 deductible. The other $240 will be paid to you by your company and you can either get insurance or keep the money.

    You will have to pay cash for all doctors appointments until you reach the $5000 deductible at which point the insurance will kick in. This will accomplish two things. It will cause doctors to be much more accountable to their patients because people will be furious if they give their dr $1000 and he does nothing or gives people bad advice. It will also cause people to take care of themselves because they will be rewarded by not having to spend money for healthcare that year and get to keep the $3000. Why should I pay the same for insurance as someone who drinks every day, eats all the wrong foods and doesnt work out?

    I spent $1000 in April on healthcare, roughly half of my take home pay, and got absolutely nothing out of it. This will make both me and my doctor much more accountable.

    Blue cross blue shield personal choice high option 448/ month no dedctable
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    My greatest concern with nationalized healthcare is that it will create 60 million new "customers" for an industry has not demonstrated the ability to perform its function.

    Currently there is no true motivation for anyone, doctors or patients, to do the right things.
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    Quote Originally Posted by spinn View Post
    My greatest concern with nationalized healthcare is that it will create 60 million new "customers" for an industry has not demonstrated the ability to perform its function.

    Currently there is no true motivation for anyone, doctors or patients, to do the right things.

    TRue you pay the dr insurance pay for the tests
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973

    Yes and I will be back on stage once i get my hormones adjusted to optimal level.. I was making incredible progress on the the procotol I was using before 25 mgs DHEA am and pm, 1 ml 5% tcreame, t-3, 20 mgs cortef, hcg 250 ius EOD getting leaner stronger bench was back to 315 for a few not like 500 I was before I got sick, but it was a start and life was returning to normal as well as my zest. Right now on 5% tcreame and feeling descent, but there is something still missing. I am witing for the dr to get around to it to order the urine test but its been 10 days and stil have not heard back from him. Jansz I will be calling your dr in a few days. I been on strickly this for 4-6 weeks and needs to be rechecked..
    Well, I hope it all works out for ya in the end. Myself I have quite a bit of work ahead me. I dieted down from 205 to 150 over 2.5 years and now got to work my way back up to add some muscle to my boney ass.
  

  
 

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