After Some Research - Androgel Questions

[Rausch]

Currently on TRT, been using Androgel 5g/day for 2 days now. Had a few follow up questions. I called my doctor and left these questions with him as well, but I wanted to hear from those with real world experience:

1) Currently I shower in the AM and in the PM. I workout at night, so I shower and apply my gel at night after the shower. Time the gel is applied is usually 10-11pm. I shower again about about 8 am. Am I compromising my absorption rate by doing this? I also sweat off and on throughout the day - will this hurt absorption as well?

2) I have been applying the gel by putting it on my fingertips and rubbing it into my shoulders until it dries. I just read in another place on the board that I should NOT rub it in. I don't understand then...should I just be applying it to my skin and letting it sit there as a mass? That makes no sense to me.

That's all I have for now - thanks in advance.

EDIT: regarding #1 I read that as long as it has been 6 hours since application the gel is fully absorbed and a shower would not hurt...?

 

[JanSz]

Currently on TRT, been using Androgel 5g/day for 2 days now. Had a few follow up questions. I called my doctor and left these questions with him as well, but I wanted to hear from those with real world experience:

1) Currently I shower in the AM and in the PM. I workout at night, so I shower and apply my gel at night after the shower. Time the gel is applied is usually 10-11pm. I shower again about about 8 am. Am I compromising my absorption rate by doing this? I also sweat off and on throughout the day - will this hurt absorption as well?

2) I have been applying the gel by putting it on my fingertips and rubbing it into my shoulders until it dries. I just read in another place on the board that I should NOT rub it in. I don't understand then...should I just be applying it to my skin and letting it sit there as a mass? That makes no sense to me.

That's all I have for now - thanks in advance.

EDIT: regarding #1 I read that as long as it has been 6 hours since application the gel is fully absorbed and a shower would not hurt...?

All this is probably ok, you just will have to use little more gel.
Only blood test will tell you how much to use. It is important to be consistent with your habits.

Get HCG or your testis will shrink, also you may be ok now with 5grams, latter after the testis are shut you may need more gel.


I preffer Tcream, 10x less volume, cost next to nothing, super easy to apply to my calf.

 

[plymouth city]

Currently on TRT, been using Androgel 5g/day for 2 days now. Had a few follow up questions. I called my doctor and left these questions with him as well, but I wanted to hear from those with real world experience:

1) Currently I shower in the AM and in the PM. I workout at night, so I shower and apply my gel at night after the shower. Time the gel is applied is usually 10-11pm. I shower again about about 8 am. Am I compromising my absorption rate by doing this? I also sweat off and on throughout the day - will this hurt absorption as well?

2) I have been applying the gel by putting it on my fingertips and rubbing it into my shoulders until it dries. I just read in another place on the board that I should NOT rub it in. I don't understand then...should I just be applying it to my skin and letting it sit there as a mass? That makes no sense to me.

That's all I have for now - thanks in advance.

EDIT: regarding #1 I read that as long as it has been 6 hours since application the gel is fully absorbed and a shower would not hurt...?

Your going overboard with this shower thing. I would also recommend you apply androgel in the morning after you shower. T levels fall at night naturally to allow for deeper sleep.

After working out you could do a simple washoff with a washcloth and soap(armpits/groin areas) and avoid areas of application.

I am an outdoor woodsy hippie from michigan who likes dirt though :dance:

 

[JanSz]

Currently on TRT, been using Androgel 5g/day for 2 days now. Had a few follow up questions. I called my doctor and left these questions with him as well, but I wanted to hear from those with real world experience:

1) Currently I shower in the AM and in the PM. I workout at night, so I shower and apply my gel at night after the shower. Time the gel is applied is usually 10-11pm. I shower again about about 8 am. Am I compromising my absorption rate by doing this? I also sweat off and on throughout the day - will this hurt absorption as well?

2) I have been applying the gel by putting it on my fingertips and rubbing it into my shoulders until it dries. I just read in another place on the board that I should NOT rub it in. I don't understand then...should I just be applying it to my skin and letting it sit there as a mass? That makes no sense to me.

That's all I have for now - thanks in advance.

EDIT: regarding #1 I read that as long as it has been 6 hours since application the gel is fully absorbed and a shower would not hurt...?

How about you skip AM shower or just wet you hair and do the armpits and groin in AM.

Rub the gel thin and be real carefull that you do not spill it.
Divide each 5 grams into 3 or four when applying.
I was really surprised when at first I was trying to use each 5 grams at once. I found latter lots of spots on a bathroom floor from dried up gel.

I really prefer my T cream now, much easier to live with it.

 

[Rausch]

How about you skip AM shower or just wet you hair and do the armpits and groin in AM.

Rub the gel thin and be real carefull that you do not spill it.
Divide each 5 grams into 3 or four when applying.
I was really surprised when at first I was trying to use each 5 grams at once. I found latter lots of spots on a bathroom floor from dried up gel.

I really prefer my T cream now, much easier to live with it.

Okay - what I've been doing with the shower is in the PM I have a full on shower, scrubbing application areas with a luffa. In the AM I get in the shower, but I only wash my hair and face, and a few "key" areas. I do NOT wash my application sites, but they DO get wet.

Any risks there? Doc seems to think that as long as I wait 6-8 hours after the application I can do anything without risk of losing some of the test absorption. I do tend to sweat a lot too, during the day.

Any thoughts on this?

 

[ItsHectic]

I would try not to sweat within 4 hours of application, but I think showering 6-8 hours after application wont effect absorption.

You should also be putting the gel in your palms and spreading it out over a wide area such as upper arms and flanks.

 

[plymouth city]

what do u do for a living at work? Do you sweat alot at work?

 

[Rausch]

I would try not to sweat within 4 hours of application, but I think showering 6-8 hours after application wont effect absorption.

You should also be putting the gel in your palms and spreading it out over a wide area such as upper arms and flanks.

Thanks for your input - that is precisely why I put the gel on at night - I know there will be an 8 hr period with no sweat or showers. It's sounds like I'm doing okay then...That's a huge relief!

I'm a powerlifter so I have rather wide shoulders/large upper arms. I spread the gel there. I dont use my 'flanks' at all.

 

[Rausch]

what do u do for a living at work? Do you sweat alot at work?

Actually, I work for a software company, but I've always been a very sweat prone individual. I sweat on some part of my body pretty much all of the time. When I lift, I drip....everywhere!

 

[plymouth city]

Alright, everything sounds good then, if it works for you then go for it.

Whats your blood tets looking like on HRT?

You need to get hCG asap. IGF-1 level?

 

[Rausch]

Alright, everything sounds good then, if it works for you then go for it.

Whats your blood tets looking like on HRT?

You need to get hCG asap. IGF-1 level?

I've been on officially for 5 days now, so I haven't gotten my tests yet. Total test before HRT was 143 Suffice to say, I felt horrible.

I have an appt to get tests in about 2 more weeks. I'll def. post then.

 

[JanSz]

I've been on officially for 5 days now, so I haven't gotten my tests yet. Total test before HRT was 143 Suffice to say, I felt horrible.

I have an appt to get tests in about 2 more weeks. I'll def. post then.

5grams of Androgel will not be enough, specially if you do not do HCG. Try to use 10gram, blood test, and see where you are.

With out HCG you are extending adjustment time.
You will not be able to get to some steady place until your testis stop working.

 

[Rausch]

5grams of Androgel will not be enough, specially if you do not do HCG. Try to use 10gram, blood test, and see where you are.

With out HCG you are extending adjustment time.
You will not be able to get to some steady place until your testis stop working.

I can only use what my doctor prescribed me. He said I need to start at 5grams and see how my hormone levels are after a month. He was going to wait 3 months, but I convinced him to stick w/ month.

How would you recommend I go about convincing my doc to prescribe 10g?

I know I don't feel 100% yet...but I was told I may need to wait 2-4 weeks.

 

[JanSz]

5grams of Androgel will not be enough, specially if you do not do HCG. Try to use 10gram, blood test, and see where you are.

With out HCG you are extending adjustment time.
You will not be able to get to some steady place until your testis stop working.

I can only use what my doctor prescribed me. He said I need to start at 5grams and see how my hormone levels are after a month. He was going to wait 3 months, but I convinced him to stick w/ month.

How would you recommend I go about convincing my doc to prescribe 10g?

I know I don't feel 100% yet...but I was told I may need to wait 2-4 weeks.

If you a retesting within a month, you are doing ok.
Make sure when you blood test to do BioAvailableT at Quest:
Bioavailable, Free and Total Testosterone,
or
TT, SHBG ,albumin
and calculate BAT yourself.
Free & Bioavailable Testosterone calculator
http://www.get-back-on-track.com/en/tools/umrechner.php
Aim for BAT=5.5(nmol/L)=159ng/dl
do not worry about TT and FreeT
explained better in:
MESO-Rx - View Single Post - Attention all those on Sub-q injections

Ask him for HCG, Novarel, 250IU/every other day or 100IU/day
or your adjustment period will extend up to untill your testies are gone.
Ask him to switch you to Tcream 100mg/1gram, much easier life with Tcream than with Androgel
1gram 100mg/1gram Tcream=10gram Androgel (disregarding absorption issues)

 

[Rausch]

If you a retesting within a month, you are doing ok.
Make sure when you blood test to do BioAvailableT at Quest:
Bioavailable, Free and Total Testosterone,
or
TT, SHBG ,albumin
and calculate BAT yourself.
Free & Bioavailable Testosterone calculator
http://www.get-back-on-track.com/en/tools/umrechner.php
Aim for BAT=5.5(nmol/L)=159ng/dl
do not worry about TT and FreeT
explained better in:
MESO-Rx - View Single Post - Attention all those on Sub-q injections

Ask him for HCG, Novarel, 250IU/every other day or 100IU/day
or your adjustment period will extend up to untill your testies are gone.
Ask him to switch you to Tcream 100mg/1gram, much easier life with Tcream than with Androgel
1gram 100mg/1gram Tcream=10gram Androgel (disregarding absorption issues)

I haven't been able to check this thread for a few days, as I ruptured a disc in my back lifting and I'm now drugged up on percocet and bed ridden. Thanks for all your advice. I will certainly speak to my endo about all of this.

Is there any harm in trying 10grams a day to see if it helps me? I was just wondering since I haven't felt the effects quite yet, and it's been 1.5 weeks...I guess I should probably wait for my doc to tell me 10gr a day is okay huh?

 

[plymouth city]

You should stick to current dose for 4 weeks and get retested.

How exactly did ya hurt yourself? Lifting weights?

 

[hardasnails1973]

Yes i like the approach of 4 weeks 5% tcreame then retest and then add in HCG 250 EOD (if t levels are low and e2 is in rnge) for another 4 weeks then retest. Also keep check on estrogen metabolism to see its going in right direction. plus check ft3, ft4, and free cortisol levels

 

[plymouth city]

Exactly. The body can handle 4 weeks of TRT without HCG at first and testicals won't shutdown right away. This gives one a good idea if external T is doing its job and independent of HCG.

 

[Rausch]

You should stick to current dose for 4 weeks and get retested.

How exactly did ya hurt yourself? Lifting weights?

Coming out of the bottom of an ATF squat...something popped in my back...next thing I know, I cant walk.

 

[Rausch]

Thanks for all the experienced advice guys, I'll keep you posted!

 

[JanSz]

Coming out of the bottom of an ATF squat...something popped in my back...next thing I know, I cant walk.

Try this quick, some chiropractors may have it.
If not try something similar.
Invertrac-Back pain relief

 

[hardasnails1973]

Exactly. The body can handle 4 weeks of TRT without HCG at first and testicals won't shutdown right away. This gives one a good idea if external T is doing its job and independent of HCG.

If external t is not doing the job then addin hcg may all that be needed to give the boost you need to get up to optimal range with good free levels as well as proper estrogen balances..

 

[plymouth city]

Coming out of the bottom of an ATF squat...something popped in my back...next thing I know, I cant walk.

Dam.

I don't back squat anymore, now I front squat I find it is much safer. A good tip is to avoid your wrists being bent simply wrap a hand towl around bar for each hand and grip the towel at each end. I was at one point backsquatting raw 365 for multiple reps at a weight of 140's. I now frontsquat with much lighter weight.

I know all the hardcore BB people say ATG is the way to go but I have great leg development and vascularity from top to bottom by never going below parallel. I find the bennies don't really outweigh the risks.

Ive gotten great results by also incorporating barefoot sprints and plyo work(shoes on for those LOL)

 

[hardasnails1973]

Dam.

I don't back squat anymore, now I front squat I find it is much safer. A good tip is to avoid your wrists being bent simply wrap a hand towl around bar for each hand and grip the towel at each end. I was at one point backsquatting raw 365 for multiple reps at a weight of 140's. I now frontsquat with much lighter weight.

I know all the hardcore BB people say ATG is the way to go but I have great leg development and vascularity from top to bottom by never going below parallel. I find the bennies don't really outweigh the risks.

Ive gotten great results by also incorporating barefoot sprints and plyo work(shoes on for those LOL)

Bike intervals sprints work incredible TOO for leg developmemt
Before getting sick I was 205 benhcing 495 and squating 585 no belt or wraps for 8 reps at 5'9 and running 4'6 40 and 6 minute mile...freinds called me freak re,minding you this was from being 8 months drug free and only did 400-500 mgs of steroids max for 12 weeks before show and then done rest of the year ..

 

[plymouth city]

Bike intervals sprints work incredible TOO for leg developmemt
Before getting sick I was 205 benhcing 495 and squating 585 no belt or wraps for 8 reps at 5'9 and running 4'6 40 and 6 minute mile...freinds called me freak re,minding you this was from being 8 months drug free and only did 400-500 mgs of steroids max for 12 weeks before show and then done rest of the year ..

Nice. I currently run high 4.6's, not bad for a guy in his mid 20's who doesn't play any competitive sports.

My "Im a badass I can lift X amount of weight" days are OVER, LOL. I use lighter weights now for more reps. I use one plate on each side(135) alot of the time for benching and squatting and do multiple reps in the 20's and 30's for multiple sets. Im all about maintaining health and being a lean flexible machine. I like pullups alot as well and sprints. Im thinking of doing Bikram yoga but it is an expense right now I can't afford.

Those numbers are quite impressive, you definitely had some great genes and probably a work ethic to match it. :head:

 

[Rausch]

Another follow up for you guys...when I shower 24 hours later, my shoulders get a slimy coating to them after getting wet. Does this mean I'm not absorbing the gel at all or is this typical?

They feel perfectly fine until I get them wet--that's when they feel a bit slimy.

 

[glg]

I'm sorry but I'm confused. So are you applying in the AM or PM or both?

The directions indicate that it should be applied in the AM. I had a discussion with my Dr. about this as she put to apply it in the PM on the script.

Apparently the med book she looked at was older and showed a PM application. I showed her the directions, visited the web site and she changed it to AM application.

If you look at some of the other threads Dr. John mentions not rubbing it in but spreading it out and letting it dry. As he put it - put your hands together so it is on both palms equally then pretend you are hugging yourself and spread it around.

 

[Rausch]

I'm sorry but I'm confused. So are you applying in the AM or PM or both?

The directions indicate that it should be applied in the AM. I had a discussion with my Dr. about this as she put to apply it in the PM on the script.

Apparently the med book she looked at was older and showed a PM application. I showed her the directions, visited the web site and she changed it to AM application.

If you look at some of the other threads Dr. John mentions not rubbing it in but spreading it out and letting it dry. As he put it - put your hands together so it is on both palms equally then pretend you are hugging yourself and spread it around.

I have recently switched from PM to AM, but PM is so much more convenient for me. What is the reasoning behind an AM preference?

 

[glg]

I honestly don't know. When I was wearing the patch it was put on at night. The patch was time released so that it peaked in the AM.

With the gel the reason isn't explained in the directions but I "assume" that the absorption is more immediate with the alcohol base (?) and therefore hits when the T levels are down in the AM.

 

[JanSz]

I have recently switched from PM to AM, but PM is so much more convenient for me. What is the reasoning behind an AM preference?

I was using Androgel for last three years.
I switched to Tcream 100mg/1gram in February 07.
I use 1gram of that cream, same amount of T as in 10grams of Androgel.
My life is much better on Tcream, 10x less volume.
I have prescription plan so the cost is not issue for me.
But for deductible on Androgel ($30) I can buy month worth of Tcream.

I was spreading Androgel thruout my whole body except genital area. Using lesser area cause problems that you have.
I divided each 5gram packet into 4-5 portions otherwise I was finding lots of gel on a floor. It does not matter what time you apply. Androgel peaks in two hours then it goes down.

Page5 figure 2.

http://androgel.com/images/ProfessionalInfo.pdf

I think they say that if done infrequently, you can swim or take a shower after 6 hours from application.