new andro results

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    new andro results


    Quick history, started with a total testosterone level around 200 went on 5g of andro, raised level to 297 after 2 weeks but estogen was elevated, 232 off the charts high. Doc bumped me up to 7.5g retested 4 weeks later total was 1046,free was 38.9, estogen was lowered but still to high at 172. now doc lowered back to 5g daily retest in 6 weeks. also started using dim to see if this helps with estrogen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by calvin6697 View Post
    Quick history, started with a total testosterone level around 200 went on 5g of andro, raised level to 297 after 2 weeks but estogen was elevated, 232 off the charts high. Doc bumped me up to 7.5g retested 4 weeks later total was 1046,free was 38.9, estogen was lowered but still to high at 172. now doc lowered back to 5g daily retest in 6 weeks. also started using dim to see if this helps with estrogen.
    Unless you strart supporting your testicles with HCG, you are going to have longer adjustment period.
    300ng DIM +I3c+ 1000mg TMG.
    More details here, but skip flax seed:
    MESO-Rx - View Single Post - I am on HRT with DIM...
    -------------------------------------------------------
    Before you load up on testosterone it may be a good idea to check
    Adrenals and
    Thyroid
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    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    Unless you strart supporting your testicles with HCG, you are going to have longer adjustment period.
    300ng DIM +I3c+ 1000mg TMG.
    More details here, but skip flax seed:
    MESO-Rx - View Single Post - I am on HRT with DIM...
    -------------------------------------------------------
    Before you load up on testosterone it may be a good idea to check
    Adrenals and
    Thyroid
    Very good post jansz

    To increase 2-OHE/16-aOHE: I have a strong intuition telling me this is where my problem lies I know it and this can cause estrogen to build up at the tissue levels and recycle back through the body which the little bastards cleaving in the cut and letting it run rampant is not helping the matters any. The elevated shbg could refelct the possiblity that estrogen metabolism may be altered possible?

    Phytoestrogens
    High protein, low fat diet (need fats to rebuild cell membrane to detox the estrogen) Need to stabilize cell membrane by stabilzing arachondonic acid and lower carbs to lower the liproptein lipase a2 (destroys and rips open cell membranes) which lowers arachondonic acid and why it is common in diabetes !!

    Reduce Omega-6 and AA generators (again read my posts about excessive arachondonic acid I was taken to correct the defiency over 8 months ago so it caused an imabance in EPA/AA ratio which could explain elevated lp(A)

    Add Omega-3’s (I am defeincy in these) as well as LNA and LA

    Add in fish oils 2 tsp BID carlsons fish oils

    Add flaxseed not flax seed oil (fiber helps metabolise estogen)
    Only 2 TBSP a day for extra fiber

    Di-indolemethane--DIM (150 BID)

    Indole-3-carbinol (I-3-C) Useless if stomach acids are low

    Inhibit aromatase activity (will not work in my case estrogen are in range (estrodial 19) but out of ratio of testosterone.) Driving estrogen lower will not solve the problem and can cause more ..

    proper serotnin/ melatonin cycle also helps to with estrogen metabolism.

    Proper methylation - taking sam-e, folonic acid, methy b-12, choline (4 whole eggs a day), nac, P5P, zinc, magnesium, molybdenum, selenium
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    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    Unless you strart supporting your testicles with HCG, you are going to have longer adjustment period.
    300ng DIM +I3c+ 1000mg TMG.
    More details here, but skip flax seed:
    MESO-Rx - View Single Post - I am on HRT with DIM...
    -------------------------------------------------------
    Before you load up on testosterone it may be a good idea to check
    Adrenals and
    Thyroid
    JanSz what do you mean by a longer adjustment period? I am using DIM+I3c 100mg DIM complex and 50mg I3c, is this enough? Also are you saying that testicles will stop working all together if HCG is not introduced, and atrophy is a definite?
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    Quote Originally Posted by calvin6697 View Post
    JanSz what do you mean by a longer adjustment period? I am using DIM+I3c 100mg DIM complex and 50mg I3c, is this enough? Also are you saying that testicles will stop working all together if HCG is not introduced, and atrophy is a definite?
    Supplementation with testosterone (over time) will cause testicles to shrink. As they shrink, gradually native T production diminish.
    If one uses HCG, that keeps testicles in their full size and therefore native T production is keept.
    From reports of otheres, I see that the amount of testicle shrinkage depends on individual. In my case they were gone to almost nothing.

    There is always confusion (probably by design) about DIM and I3C. It is hard to get straight answer.
    Dr John recomends 300mg/day, but description of manufacturer (important) is missing.
    Also if you study this subject a little, question arrises, the 300mg is it all bioavailable or actually the dose is 75mg of bioavailable DIM. 0.25*300=75mg
    Important distinction, since diffrent manufacturers use either to describe content of their product.
    MESO-Rx - View Single Post - I am on HRT with DIM...
    read also the whole thread, lots of good info (and confusion) on DIM & I3C.
    As always,
    1. do the blood test
    2. implement your new routine for at least a month, better two months
    3. do a blood test, see what works what not, make adjustments
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    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    Supplementation with testosterone (over time) will cause testicles to shrink. As they shrink, gradually native T production diminish.
    If one uses HCG, that keeps testicles in their full size and therefore native T production is keept.
    From reports of otheres, I see that the amount of testicle shrinkage depends on individual. In my case they were gone to almost nothing.

    There is always confusion (probably by design) about DIM and I3C. It is hard to get straight answer.
    Dr John recomends 300mg/day, but description of manufacturer (important) is missing.
    Also if you study this subject a little, question arrises, the 300mg is it all bioavailable or actually the dose is 75mg of bioavailable DIM. 0.25*300=75mg
    Important distinction, since diffrent manufacturers use either to describe content of their product.
    MESO-Rx - View Single Post - I am on HRT with DIM...
    read also the whole thread, lots of good info (and confusion) on DIM & I3C.
    As always,
    1. do the blood test
    2. implement your new routine for at least a month, better two months
    3. do a blood test, see what works what not, make adjustments
    Thanks for the Great info.
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    I am not trying to start anything here but your E test is the wrong kind of Test it's not estrogen that is the bad guy here it's Estradiol E2 you need a test like this. Plus there is no way in hell your total T is going up this high (1046) on 7.5 grams of Androgel you would be lucky if your levels went up to 450 to 550 on this dose. I feel you got up one morning and put on the gel then went to your Dr.'s and had blood drawn for your tests. Putting on the gel first then doing the test spiked your test. I know did it many times and your Dr. sees this lower your dose and you crash. Redo the test if you put the gel on first then go in and do the test after 4 hrs. and make sure you don't get any of the gel on the spot where they stick you for the blood test.

    My Dr. had me come in first thing in the morning and do the blood at 8am then when I went home I put on the gel. Your levels will stay up for more then 24 hrs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmgamer18 View Post
    I am not trying to start anything here but your E test is the wrong kind of Test it's not estrogen that is the bad guy here it's Estradiol E2 you need a test like this. Plus there is no way in hell your total T is going up this high (1046) on 7.5 grams of Androgel you would be lucky if your levels went up to 450 to 550 on this dose. I feel you got up one morning and put on the gel then went to your Dr.'s and had blood drawn for your tests. Putting on the gel first then doing the test spiked your test. I know did it many times and your Dr. sees this lower your dose and you crash. Redo the test if you put the gel on first then go in and do the test after 4 hrs. and make sure you don't get any of the gel on the spot where they stick you for the blood test.

    My Dr. had me come in first thing in the morning and do the blood at 8am then when I went home I put on the gel. Your levels will stay up for more then 24 hrs.
    I had the test done at 9:00am approx. 27 hrs after my last application. When she told me the results I couldn't believe the results, so I had her fax me the report. I have heard that it can take a few months for the levels to stabalize. Whats your experience?
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    Quote Originally Posted by calvin6697 View Post
    I had the test done at 9:00am approx. 27 hrs after my last application. When she told me the results I couldn't believe the results, so I had her fax me the report. I have heard that it can take a few months for the levels to stabalize. Whats your experience?
    The only other thing is if you had some gel from the day before on the spot they stuck you for the blood test.

    I never felt good on gels had sore joints and muscles and low levels so low my Dr. was giving me 200mgs of Depo T shots every 2 weeks on top of the 10 grams of gels. I feel my best on just shots.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmgamer18 View Post
    The only other thing is if you had some gel from the day before on the spot they stuck you for the blood test.

    I never felt good on gels had sore joints and muscles and low levels so low my Dr. was giving me 200mgs of Depo T shots every 2 weeks on top of the 10 grams of gels. I feel my best on just shots.
    I guess that could be possible I do put it on my upper arms, but I thought that after 5 to 6 hours is was fully absorbed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by calvin6697 View Post
    I guess that could be possible I do put it on my upper arms, but I thought that after 5 to 6 hours is was fully absorbed.
    No only 10% gets absorbed if you did not shower before the test it was spiked.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmgamer18 View Post
    The only other thing is if you had some gel from the day before on the spot they stuck you for the blood test.

    I never felt good on gels had sore joints and muscles and low levels so low my Dr. was giving me 200mgs of Depo T shots every 2 weeks on top of the 10 grams of gels. I feel my best on just shots.
    Would there be some gel still on my arms after that long?
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    Quote Originally Posted by calvin6697 View Post
    Would there be some gel still on my arms after that long?
    Yes it happened to me 2 times so after that I got up in the morning took a shower then went in and did the test never had a problem after that. A lot of guys think they can put on the gel in the morning come home from work and have sex with there wife. The gel was getting on them and they started growing hair on there face. Plus this they started have problems with there clit staying hard. That gel is active for a long time it does not all go into your skin it stays on top of it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmgamer18 View Post
    Yes it happened to me 2 times so after that I got up in the morning took a shower then went in and did the test never had a problem after that. A lot of guys think they can put on the gel in the morning come home from work and have sex with there wife. The gel was getting on them and they started growing hair on there face. Plus this they started have problems with there clit staying hard. That gel is active for a long time it does not all go into your skin it stays on top of it.
    Thanks I did not know that. Even though I put it on in the morning if I am going to have contact with my wife I take a shower first.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmgamer18 View Post
    Yes it happened to me 2 times so after that I got up in the morning took a shower then went in and did the test never had a problem after that. A lot of guys think they can put on the gel in the morning come home from work and have sex with there wife. The gel was getting on them and they started growing hair on there face. Plus this they started have problems with there clit staying hard. That gel is active for a long time it does not all go into your skin it stays on top of it.
    Now that I think about it I dont think I took a shower before my bloodtest.
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    Quote Originally Posted by calvin6697 View Post
    Thanks I did not know that. Even though I put it on in the morning if I am going to have contact with my wife I take a shower first.
    Good idea your wife kids mother all.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmgamer18 View Post
    Good idea your wife kids mother all.
    You now have me thinking about the shots instead of the gel. When you do the shots are you concerned about the rise and fall of test levels?
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    Quote Originally Posted by calvin6697 View Post
    You now have me thinking about the shots instead of the gel. When you do the shots are you concerned about the rise and fall of test levels?
    No you do them once a week start at 100 mgs a week the on the 5th and 6th days after your shot do 250 IU's of HCG this will keep you leveled and keep your testis working. Go to Dr. John's site at AllThingsMale.com and read TRT: A Recipe for Success and his HCG Update.

    I do my shots every 3 days 50 mgs. and I do the HCG the 2 days each in between. I do this because I have a lot of trouble with high Estradiol and this keeps it down.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmgamer18 View Post
    No you do them once a week start at 100 mgs a week the on the 5th and 6th days after your shot do 250 IU's of HCG this will keep you leveled and keep your testis working. Go to Dr. John's site at AllThingsMale.com and read TRT: A Recipe for Success and his HCG Update.

    I do my shots every 3 days 50 mgs. and I do the HCG the 2 days each in between. I do this because I have a lot of trouble with high Estradiol and this keeps it down.
    I have read that article, but it was like pulling teeth with my doc just to get her to prescribe androgel. She is trying to be more open, I have finally got her to check LH levels,estrogen, cortisol along with the total and free.
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    Quote Originally Posted by calvin6697 View Post
    I have read that article, but it was like pulling teeth with my doc just to get her to prescribe androgel. She is trying to be more open, I have finally got her to check LH levels,estrogen, cortisol along with the total and free.
    I hear ya and we all go through this with some Dr.'s best thing you can do if she will let you is print off studys and info form other Dr.'s and show them to her. I gave my Dr. the book by Dr. Shippen "The Testosterone Syndrome" and printed copys of Dr. John's work. If this does not help then find a new Dr. read the sticky How to find a New Dr.
    Here are some links to help you out.

    http://www.aace.com/pub/pdf/guidelines/hypogonadism.pdf



    Male Hormone Modulation Therapy.. HGH replacement, Testosterone Replacement

    Effects of Aromatase Inhibition in Elderly Men with Low or Borderline-Low Serum Testosterone Levels -- Leder et al. 89 (3): 1174 -- Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism

    Low-Dose Human Chorionic Gonadotropin Maintains Intratesticular Testosterone in Normal Men with Testosterone-Induced Gonadotropin Suppression -- Coviello et al. 90 (5): 2595 -- Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism

    Adrenal Insufficiency: Underdiagnosed in the Critically Ill

    Home Page of William McK. Jefferies, M.D.

    SAFE USES OF CORTISOL
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    I really appreciate all the info, looks like I have some studying to do. Thanks again
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmgamer18 View Post
    I am not trying to start anything here but your E test is the wrong kind of Test it's not estrogen that is the bad guy here it's Estradiol E2 you need a test like this. Plus there is no way in hell your total T is going up this high (1046) on 7.5 grams of Androgel you would be lucky if your levels went up to 450 to 550 on this dose. I feel you got up one morning and put on the gel then went to your Dr.'s and had blood drawn for your tests. Putting on the gel first then doing the test spiked your test. I know did it many times and your Dr. sees this lower your dose and you crash. Redo the test if you put the gel on first then go in and do the test after 4 hrs. and make sure you don't get any of the gel on the spot where they stick you for the blood test.

    My Dr. had me come in first thing in the morning and do the blood at 8am then when I went home I put on the gel. Your levels will stay up for more then 24 hrs.
    Thank you Phil...I just had similar test results......2007 on 100 mg of testosterone creme. That seems more like an erorr on the test. I did not put the creme on until AFTER I had the blood drawn.
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    Quote Originally Posted by spinn View Post
    Thank you Phil...I just had similar test results......2007 on 100 mg of testosterone creme. That seems more like an erorr on the test. I did not put the creme on until AFTER I had the blood drawn.
    Ask any Dr. that does a lot of labs they do mess up so much so that my Dr. will not change a dose of meds on one test.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmgamer18 View Post
    Ask any Dr. that does a lot of labs they do mess up so much so that my Dr. will not change a dose of meds on one test.
    Phil what were your TT/FT, shbg results on your current protocol

    Thanks
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973 View Post
    Phil what were your TT/FT, shbg results on your current protocol

    Thanks
    My last test is on the low side we tried lowering my HCG down to 250 IU's from 350 and we found we need it at 300 IU's.

    My Total T was 636 down from 1252 range 262 to 1593 ng/dl.

    My Free T was 18.9 down from 31.8 range 8.8 to 27 pg/ml.

    E2 was 12 down from 23 pg/ml

    Shbg is low 22.

    I get tested next week. But doing cortef has my Testosterone levels going way up. I guess my body is not in as much stress and not using up the T meds so fast.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmgamer18 View Post
    My last test is on the low side we tried lowering my HCG down to 250 IU's from 350 and we found we need it at 300 IU's.

    My Total T was 636 down from 1252 range 262 to 1593 ng/dl.

    My Free T was 18.9 down from 31.8 range 8.8 to 27 pg/ml.

    E2 was 12 down from 23 pg/ml

    Shbg is low 22.

    I get tested next week. But doing cortef has my Testosterone levels going way up. I guess my body is not in as much stress and not using up the T meds so fast.

    Brings up a good point could somthing be using up my t meds too fast as well (possible from the adrenal fatigue ?) ..i am on cortef too but do not no how much longer because dr wants me to taper down when ever I do i get severe brain fog ect, libido goes to hell. if he yanks me off of it can doing higher dosages of isocort replaace it like 10-12 pills a day possible? When i get urine test done It would be weird to find low cortisol on being on cortef unless that just tells me that my system is really stressing out !! . As you pointed out hcg does really infulence once testosterone greatly !! And if a person has a low LH it could it ly help the situation bring up levels to almost double curent level? I see by you just dropping it dumped your levels why down almost half from just 100 ius each shot..yikes so how many hcg shots you take a week 4 is that correct.
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    Yes I feel you have the same dam problem body is in stress do to low cortisol levels in my case it's not my adrenals it is my pituitary not sending the messages to make enough cortisol adding cortisol by taking cortef after a time it started working I don't get sick in the winter anymore. My body is not as stressed because of being sick and my Armour is up to 3 grains a day so everything is being treated. So my levels stated going up I have always been on higher doses of T to feel good and have good test levels. Now I don't need to do so much T meds. I do 50mgs. of Depo T every 3 days into my thigh to help keep my E2 down. If I don't keep it down then my Testosterone dose not work as well and my Thyroid goes to ****. So shooting 50mgs every 3 days was a big help. The 2 days each in between I do now 300 IU's of HCG this keeps my levels up. I have never tried just HCG and don't want to have enough problems just want to get back to were I was 2 yrs ago going for walks and working out at the old folks center on machines. This last set back has been the hardest to come back from but I am doing it getting out everyday and walking. I can't for the life of me understand why you need to come off cortef. You will not feel good and it will set you back big time. Every time someone on TRT and Cortef sees a new Dr. the dam Dr. wants them off these meds for what reasion is what I question because all this does is shows the DR. how dam sick you can get doing this. Testing will show them **** you need to be off TRT for a dam long time to get a good base line test and coming off cortef can kill you. You may feel ok but the first Auto Accident you have or loss of a loved one your will go into Adrenal shock and need to stress dose to keep you from passing out. Problem is most don't carry cortef with them and when you hit a problem that makes you stressed your adrenals will not be able to give you enough cortisol to get you passed this.
    Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973 View Post
    Brings up a good point could somthing be using up my t meds too fast as well (possible from the adrenal fatigue ?) ..i am on cortef too but do not no how much longer because dr wants me to taper down when ever I do i get severe brain fog ect, libido goes to hell. if he yanks me off of it can doing higher dosages of isocort replaace it like 10-12 pills a day possible? When i get urine test done It would be weird to find low cortisol on being on cortef unless that just tells me that my system is really stressing out !! . As you pointed out hcg does really infulence once testosterone greatly !! And if a person has a low LH it could it ly help the situation bring up levels to almost double curent level? I see by you just dropping it dumped your levels why down almost half from just 100 ius each shot..yikes so how many hcg shots you take a week 4 is that correct.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmgamer18 View Post
    Yes I feel you have the same dam problem body is in stress do to low cortisol levels in my case it's not my adrenals it is my pituitary not sending the messages to make enough cortisol adding cortisol by taking cortef after a time it started working I don't get sick in the winter anymore. My body is not as stressed because of being sick and my Armour is up to 3 grains a day so everything is being treated. So my levels stated going up I have always been on higher doses of T to feel good and have good test levels. Now I don't need to do so much T meds. I do 50mgs. of Depo T every 3 days into my thigh to help keep my E2 down. If I don't keep it down then my Testosterone dose not work as well and my Thyroid goes to ****. So shooting 50mgs every 3 days was a big help. The 2 days each in between I do now 300 IU's of HCG this keeps my levels up. I have never tried just HCG and don't want to have enough problems just want to get back to were I was 2 yrs ago going for walks and working out at the old folks center on machines. This last set back has been the hardest to come back from but I am doing it getting out everyday and walking. I can't for the life of me understand why you need to come off cortef. You will not feel good and it will set you back big time. Every time someone on TRT and Cortef sees a new Dr. the dam Dr. wants them off these meds for what reasion is what I question because all this does is shows the DR. how dam sick you can get doing this. Testing will show them **** you need to be off TRT for a dam long time to get a good base line test and coming off cortef can kill you. You may feel ok but the first Auto Accident you have or loss of a loved one your will go into Adrenal shock and need to stress dose to keep you from passing out. Problem is most don't carry cortef with them and when you hit a problem that makes you stressed your adrenals will not be able to give you enough cortisol to get you passed this.
    But does low testosterone also add undue stress to the adrenals and thyroid. Dr john said my estrogen/testosterone was not imbalanced and some thing is driving up my shbg (low dhea, low cortisol, estrogens) this is what we need to further investigate throuight eh urine test..i think adding hcg with LH would definetly bring my levels up higher, but i just need to hold off till i get the test done to see wher e I am at with out it. i read article about how hcg brings up testosterone to normal level and I hoping that this will really finally do the trick when time comes..
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973 View Post
    But does low testosterone also add undue stress to the adrenals and thyroid. Dr john said my estrogen/testosterone was not imbalanced and some thing is driving up my shbg (low dhea, low cortisol, estrogens) this is what we need to further investigate throuight eh urine test..i think adding hcg with LH would definetly bring my levels up higher, but i just need to hold off till i get the test done to see wher e I am at with out it. i read article about how hcg brings up testosterone to normal level and I hoping that this will really finally do the trick when time comes..
    Yes it will being your T levels up but how high I can't say it's up to your testis.
  

  
 

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