- 12-09-2006, 07:25 PM
LifeExtension: Male Hormone Modulation Therapy
Carnitine. Carnitine is an amino acid derivative that may be more active than testosterone in aging men who have sexual dysfunction and depression caused by an androgen deficiency (Cavallini G et al 2004). Both testosterone and carnitine improve sexual desire, sexual satisfaction, and nocturnal penile tumescence, but carnitine is more effective than testosterone in improving erectile function, nocturnal penile tumescence, orgasm, and general sexual well-being. Carnitine was better than testosterone at treating depression (Cavallini G et al 2004).
Is this actually true?
Is any body using it succesfully for this purpose?
What and where to buy?
- 12-09-2006, 10:27 PM
Originally Posted by JanSz
- 12-09-2006, 10:57 PM
My mate takes it and he hasnt noticed any diffrence in sex drive.
12-10-2006, 01:56 AM
yeah the studies are true. Its probally most usful with the sexual effects for men over 40; however i ve been taking it for about a year now. I notice mental enhancement, some sexual, like if my sex drive is low, it keeps it neutral, keeps it from falling , this supplement has so many benifits. I take Alcar. Good stuff
12-10-2006, 08:39 AM
yes smeton ALcar is the proper carnitine they are referring to. What it does is helps feeds the aids in removing fats from the liver and also provides an acetyl group that feeds the begninning of the krebs cycle where all cellular energy is created. It also helps to reduce stress by combating excessive glutamae (excitory neuron) that is released when body is put into a stress full situation. This feature probablly is why it is so effective for memory protection such as altzhiers. For testosterone increasing effects it helps to increase acetyl choline which is needed to help produce testosterone as well as aids in combating cortisol levels.
12-10-2006, 02:58 PM
Taking 2 grams L-Carnitine+2 grams Propionyl L-Carnitine+1.2 grams ALCAR for about 2 weeks now,haven't noticed anything spectacular yet.
Understand tho that from what I've researched it takes months before noticing noticable improvements.And also only high doses are effective.I had the L-Carnitine and thought I didn't want to waste it and decided to incorporate it even tho studies indicate that the esters are used not the free base version,but what the he** it can only do my endurance in cardio good.Burns fats for energy so should lower BF as a side and I can say in that regard it seems to be doing good but again not spectacularly.
12-10-2006, 04:41 PM
GOOD GOD you taking all that carntine is driving your choline in the freaken toilet. you may not care now but 1 year from now when you have a imbalanced liver you will. Carnitine depletes choline which is major building block for cell membrances as well neurotransmitter acteyl choline (aids in relaxation, digestion, libido,appeite, memory). Choline increases carnitine levels in tissue.
Get tested and see if you actually need it. Spectra cell intra cellular testing will tell you what you need and is covered by blue cross blue shield. or put it this way yes it cost 300 bucks for the test, but figure you can be wasting 300 bucks in 2-3 months on things you do not really need. and how much it could actually save u in the long run.
12-10-2006, 05:03 PM
Please post the words that need to be on my prescription for test at the LabCorp.Originally Posted by hardasnails1973
If you have, also give me, please, the ICD-9 codes that are aplicable.
12-10-2006, 05:15 PM
Spectacell is out side labortory not done by lab corp. Most of testing I had done is not done by lab corp. it is more evasive testing...search spectracell on internet it will tell you. Thats how i found 90% of abnormalitie and other testing verified it by indirectly through functional testing for specific enzyme not the direct nutrient.Originally Posted by JanSz
12-11-2006, 03:04 AM
so is choline require , for a healthy liver, with alcar?
any kind of choline or a specific kind?
12-11-2006, 06:39 AM
Choline deficeincy can happen in less then 2 weeks with us not even knowing it and can result in fatty liver my friend,
Choline deficeincy/ altered folate metabolism is priory cause of fatty liver because choline is the back up pathways for methylation for b-12/folate. What to know how quick this can happen. Example, Hard traning athlete (majority are low on zinc) if the zinc becomes low enough it can be detrimental
zinc is cofactor of methylcobalonin, methycobaline combines with folate to form folinic acid. These together forms activate methionne synthase (main pathway for DNA methylation). If this reaction does not occur then TMG/choline pathways is used up and eventually that gets depleted due to dietary requiements are not enough and then your cells membrane break down to get the choline. When cell membranes break down this prevents nutrients from getting in and toxins getting out hence detoxifcation in liver gets over whelmed and you end up liver can not keep up with demand so it has no other place to put the toxin except to store them in fat hence fatty liver because choline helps remove the fat from the liver and transport it out into the blood. People with cholestrol under 160 are more likely to die of stroke then a person with cholesterol of 230 or more. The reason being if its not being released where is being stored. You guessed it in your liver !! This drs that are pushing peoples cholesterol down in to the 130-150 are only asking for more problem because cholestatin medicines deplete coenyzme q10. No wonder these people get so weak. Co enzyme Q10 drives atp synthesis. kind of scarey isn't it
Best kind of choline is Phosphodytyl choline 98% just 2 tabs a day is all one needs or eat raw orgainc eggs in shakes and add 5 mgs biotin to help off set the enzyme in raw eggs that binds the biotin and you will be fine
Choline and carnitine should be balanced in 1:1 ratio when supplementing. I think this imbalnace was the reason of my demise,
I cut whole eggs and red meat from diet and added 3 grams of ALcar and with in a short a matter of time I started to expreince liver congestion (insomina, appetite loss depression) plus my cholesterol was dropping like a rock. But little did i know back then as much as I have learned now. I just do not want to see people fall into the same trap as me and i am sure alot of people already did and are possible on there way it will just take a little longer time to feel the effects.
12-11-2006, 07:47 AM
Way back then, on a farm, I had fresh eggs available and had no problem making little hole on both ends and drink it.Originally Posted by hardasnails1973
Since I came to live in USA (30 y ago), I am not sure about eggs.
I buy mine at regular supermarket.
Is it ok to drink it straight or in shakes?
What is biotin, what food to eat or pills to buy?
I just drink two raw eggs mixed with two tablespoons of sugar.
Will let you know latter if I got into any salmonela problem.
I am still missing biotin!!!???
12-11-2006, 08:03 AM
Biotin is a mineral that if a person eats organic raw eggs there is an enzyme that binds makes the biotin inactive and could result in biotin deficiency. I add them to my shakes but they MUST BE ORGANIC not supermarket brand or you increases chances of samenella. Cooking deactivates the enyzme that binds biotin and also lowers nutritional value of the food. SO raw organic is the best. If you are low on money 1 TBSP of lecithan granules will also replace same amount of choline found in the egg and can be placed in your shakes to boost caloires as well as an emulsifer of fat to aid in fat digestion. Organic eggs are also higher in omega 3 then 6 which 80% of population is lacking and could be potential cause of many cardiovascaulr diseaes and other aliments. We need to learn from out ancestors and go back to the basics in order to regain our health back. One of the most nutritious foods people neglect is brewers yeast it contains the highest bioavailabel b vitamins as well as good source of fiber and amino acids. Do not worry about samella as long as they are organic. There is a huge difference. Raw eggs are one of the biggest part of a detoxification program because it aids in bi layer lipid replacement. With cell membrace ridget toxins can not get out.Originally Posted by JanSz
You just killed the whole purpose of the raw eggs instead of using sugar use stevia instead its 300 times sweeter then sugar so you needs alot less of it. 1 tsp = 1 tbsp of sugar taste wise and does not effect blood sugar levels. Adding sugar just stripped the biotin from the eggs, as well as other b- vitamins
Best protein drink
2 raw organic eggs
1 scoop of favortite protein powder
2 TBSP brewers yeast
1 TBSP lecithen graules
1/4 cup or rice bran
1/2 cup of ground oats (drop if gluten intolerant and add 1/2 cup rice brand)
1 tsp of extra virgin olive oik
1/4 cup of acidopholisis yogurt
cinamone 1 tsp
45 grams protein
18 grams fat
carbs 32 grams carbs (net 22 grams carbs)
10- grams fiber (5 grams soluable/5 grams insoluable)
What is does
heals intestinal wall due to reduce inflammation
balances blood sugar with cinamon, nutrient ratio, fiber content
increases anti oxidents vitamin E due to EVO
prevents cardiovascualr disease
its combined protein has slow acting fast acting protein so you stay in anabolic phase longer
REduces pathogenic bacteria due to fiber feeds good bacteria plus also the probiotics in the yogurt.
Helps prevent fatty liver
feeds cell membranes and aids in detoxification of toxins
12-11-2006, 11:31 AM
Da man,Originally Posted by hardasnails1973
Than you for the receipe.
I do not eat much sugar over all but raw eggs mixed with sugar is really a treat for me.
Actually I newer thoght of raw eggs mixed with little sugar as a raw meal until now. I only thought of eggs that I would drink straight from the shell as a raw, go figure.
I the mean time I would like to tell you that in years doing it I never got in any digestive problems.
12-11-2006, 11:46 AM
Nix the sugar use stevia its alot healthier for you and alot sweeter
12-11-2006, 08:24 PM
Reference i found where from small studies
This studies is that after stroke people with lower cholesterol have higher mortalily
Here ya go dr.
Low Total Serum Cholesterol and Intracerebral Hemorrhagic Stroke: Is the Association Confined to Elderly Men?: The Kaiser Permanente Medical Care Program -- Iribarren et al. 27 (11): 1993 -- Stroke
12-11-2006, 08:34 PM
I'm a member of another site that unfortunately is down right now. I posted a thread about this exact subject ("high" cholestrol isn't a bad thing). If the site comes back, I'll find it and send the link to you. It was posted on a medical site but I can't remember which one.Originally Posted by Dr. John
12-13-2006, 05:50 PM
Please give me your references about this as I have never heard this "carnitine depletes choline" info.Originally Posted by hardasnails1973
12-13-2006, 05:59 PM
Please give me your references about this as I have never heard this "carnitine depletes choline" info.Originally Posted by hardasnails1973
Effects of L: -Acetylcarnitine on Cirrhotic Patients with Hepatic Coma: Randomized Double-Blind, Placebo-Controlled Trial.Malaguarnera M, Pistone G, Astuto M, Vecchio I, Raffaele R, Lo Giudice E, Rampello L.
Dipartimento di Scienze della Senescenza, Urologiche e Neurologiche, Universita di Catania, Via Messina 829, 95128, Catania, Italia, firstname.lastname@example.org.
Multiple therapeutic modalities have been used to treat hepatic encephalopathy. L: -Acetylcarnitine (LAC) is a physiologically active substance that improves both the energetic and the neurotransmission profiles. LAC is able to cross the hematoencephalic barrier and reach the cerebral regions, where the acetylic group may be utilized. The aim of this work was to evaluate the efficacy of LAC in the treatment of hepatic coma in cirrhotic patients. Twenty-four suitably selected patients were enrolled in the study and, following randomization, received either LAC (n=13) or placebo (n=11). Statistically significant differences in neurological findings, as evaluated by the Glasgow Scale, as well as in ammonia serum levels and BUN were found following LAC treatment. In the placebo group we observed two cases of improved neurological findings as well as one case of improved EEG grading. In the other group we observed an improvement of neurological findings and of EEG grade in 10 and 8 subjects, respectively. Noteworthily, seven (54%) patients went from grade 4 down to grade 3, and one from grade 4 down to grade 1. The improvement in the neurological picture was evident at between 1 and 4 hr after the end of treatment, remaining until 24 hr after. No side effects were observed in our study series. Our study demonstrates that LAC administration improved neurological and biohumoral symptoms in selective cirrhotic patients with hepatic coma.
PMID: 17080254 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]
Related LinksTherapeutic efficacy of L-ornithine-L-aspartate infusions in patients with cirrhosis and hepatic encephalopathy: results of a placebo-controlled, double-blind study. [Hepatology. 1997] PMID: 9185752 Flumazenil in cirrhotic patients in hepatic coma: a randomized double-blind placebo-controlled crossover trial. [Hepatology. 1994] PMID: 8276366 Flumazenil for hepatic coma in patients with liver cirrhosis: an Italian multicentre double-blind, placebo-controlled, crossover study. [Eur J Emerg Med. 1998] PMID: 9846248 Flumazenil for hepatic encephalopathy grade III and IVa in patients with cirrhosis: an Italian multicenter double-blind, placebo-controlled, cross-over study. [Hepatology. 1998] PMID: 9695999 Acetyl-L-carnitine (levacecarnine) in the treatment of diabetic neuropathy. A long-term, randomised, double-blind, placebo-controlled study. [Drugs R D. 2002] PMID: 12455197 See all Related Articles...
Display Summary Brief Abstract AbstractPlus Citation MEDLINE XML UI List LinkOut ASN.1 Related Articles Cited Articles Cited in Books CancerChrom Links Domain Links 3D Domain Links GEO DataSet Links Gene Links Gene (GeneRIF) Links Genome Links Project Links GENSAT Links GEO Profile Links HomoloGene Links Nucleotide Links Nucleotide (RefSeq) Links OMIA Links OMIM (calculated) Links OMIM (cited) Links BioAssay Links Compound Links Compound via MeSH Substance Links Substance via MeSH PMC Links Cited in PMC PopSet Links Probe Links Protein Links Protein (RefSeq) Links SNP Links Structure Links Taxonomy via GenBank UniGene Links UniSTS Links Show 5 10 20 50 100 200 500 Sort by Pub Date First Author Last Author Journal Send to Text File Printer Clipboard E-mail Order
Dec 13 2006 10:56:50
"No side effects were observed in our study series" I hardly think they would be giving this to these patients if what you said was true.
If choline (being a methyl donor )was depleted I agree that would be bad for anyone.
12-14-2006, 11:15 PM
Hardasnails i think your wrong on this one.
12-15-2006, 07:38 AM
i am still trying to dig it up..I read it some where on choline web site just can not remember where. We do know they lowering choline does lower carnitine levels thats a fact. Increasing choline retains carntiine in the body.
12-18-2006, 08:07 PM
From "The Healing Nutrients Within" by Eric R.Braverman,M.D.
Cirrhosis is a disease in which fibrous tissue replaces healthy liver tissue and liver functions are compromised.One of these functions happens to be the last step in the biochemical synthesis of carnitine,and it should not be surprising that cirrhotics show significant reductions in blood carnitine.
What is quite interesting, however, is that when carnitine is given to rats fed on alcohol, the expected fat accumulation in the liver seems to be prevented and blood lipid levels also remain normal(Sachan et al.,1984). It is not yet known whether this phenomenon applies to humans as well.
Carnitine also seems to have a role in the liver's ability to metabolize protein, decreasing hyperammonemia in mice. It may also reduce liver toxicity that can result from the anti-seizure drug Valproate.
Sachan, D. S.; Rhew, T. H.; and Ruark, R. A. Ameliorating effects of carnitine and its precursors on alcohol-induced fatty liver. J. Clin. Nutr.,39:738-744, 1984.
Anyways here no reference to choline but if said nutrient was depleting choline and causing some kind of health problems it wasn't mentioned.(at least here)
On another note ALCAR is a smart drug and I do notice cognitive effects and though I don't have a six pack(yet!!) my waistline is making improvements tho I haven't been doing my usual cardio due to being to (too)busy.
Hope this helps all.
08-21-2007, 12:42 AM
So with Alcar eat raw organic eggs and red meat and this takes care of choline.
My Multi has 50 mgs choline (Choline bitartrate) do these two factors take care of Choline , when using Alcar?
Follow me on facebook, twitter and youtube, where I share information and videos to help you achieve your physique goals, John Smeton Ftness
08-22-2007, 09:44 AM
You're meant to take r-ALA with ALCAR.
There's tonnes of information on it, and it all supports that it does benefit libido and erectile function in older men. As well as HEAPS of other benefits.
The key is to supplement with both r-ALA and ALCAR together. The r-ALA keeps your liver healthy, but both products also work in unison together.
Google them together and you'll find everything you need to know.
Similar Forum Threads
- By windwords7 in forum SupplementsReplies: 789Last Post: 09-06-2012, 03:29 PM
- By GuyinLA in forum SupplementsReplies: 8Last Post: 05-20-2003, 08:08 PM
- By windwords7 in forum SupplementsReplies: 11Last Post: 03-30-2003, 12:18 AM
- By Sheesh in forum SupplementsReplies: 0Last Post: 01-28-2003, 11:06 AM
- By YellowJacket in forum SupplementsReplies: 6Last Post: 01-18-2003, 07:22 AM