My Road To Being Me Again
- 06-01-2007, 08:39 AM
- 06-01-2007, 09:51 PM
I'm sure I'm not telling you anything you don't already know, but you did make a big increase in dosage going to every three days or twice/week if you kept the same dosage per injection. Naturally that is going to shoot your E2 up in response as well.
You'll get it right with Dr. John's help.
- 06-02-2007, 04:47 AM
I didn't read the whole thread, but is there any possibility it's a igf-1, or HGH problem?
06-02-2007, 02:55 PM
06-02-2007, 07:19 PM
06-02-2007, 11:38 PM
SoMdHunter - How soon after your wk/2 injection did you have your blood drawn?
06-03-2007, 12:57 AM
Have been lurking around, following your situation. Found it interesting as I had problems very similar to yours (libido loss, ED, fatigue, etc.), only my causation was different - and initial T levels much lower than yours. Started out on Androgel and then went over to Testim. Gradually worked up to two 10 gram packets a day - and barely got up to around 450 Total T! Doc finally figured out I was a poor absorber and switched me over to injections... Test Cyp, 100mg once a week IM. Quite a bit of improvement but early phase of curve caused spike in already borderline high E2 and Total Estrogens (we tend to concentrate too much on JUST the E2). I then arranged a switch over to 50 mg of Test Cyp twice a week (Monday morning and Thursday night). Also part of the protocol was 250 IU of HcG done with SubQ injection 24 hr before the Test Cyp shot (so 500 IU of HcG daily). Due to continued higher levels of E2 and Total Es (E2 was at very high normal range and Total Es well above top end of normal range), so we also had added in 1/2 of a 1 mg Arimidex tablet also twice a week (I take concurrent with doing the Test Cyp IM shot just as a purposeful reminder).
My last set of test results showed Total T at 680 (220 - 1000), Free T at 210 (40 - 240), Free T Percentage at 3.7% (0.5 - 3.2%... this one hard to read due to smudging), E2 at 22 (0 - 60), Total Es at 124 (less than 200), PSA 0.55. I wouldn't mind having Total T levels up there a bit higher for "optimal level ranges", but things are working out well at this protocol. I have about 80 - 90% of my libido back. ED is no problem anymore (unless some other concern involved like very fatigued, etc.)., I have energy for long bike rides, cardio workouts and weight training, etc., etc.
I also take DHEA as my DHEA levels were very low (25 mg in morning and 25 mg in early afternoon) and a 1 mg Melatonin before bedtime (both being hormones that we lose as we age and my DHEA levels specifically had tested out quite low). I take TMG a couple times a week to help keep the liver cleaned out and the P450 Enzyme system working good. I tried the DIM (all the varieties and all the protocols - including the "favored band") and also found that it did nothing for me. In fact when I went on the favored brand, my E2 levels did come down a couple points, but my Total Es jumped over 50 points... and I developed more libido, anxiety, and while fortunately didn't return to a state of ED, I noticed a significant lessening of of sensation during sex. No more DIM for me after that (IMO its more of a scam than anything else anyway, but then that is IMHO).
Question. Does Dr. John know that you are doing the shots of Test Cyp on a SubQ basis? It's been a while since I've been on any of the forums, but I recall reading on one or two where he was dead set against doing Test shots SubQ. As I recalled he pointed out that SubQ shots injects the Test Cyp directly into the dermal layer under the skin (i.e., into fat) and that "aromatase lives in fat cells"... in other words that he felt doing Test on a SubQ injection basis would significantly RAISE the levels of E2 and Total Es due to aromatization. Has he changed his opinion on that?
Also, it sounds to me like you do your Test Cyp SubQ shots pretty much all over (legs, calves, delts, etc.). Is there a reason for doing it that way rather than in the stomach like with the Hcg injections? Is there any specific benefit to that or just a matter of choice thing.
I wouldn't mind it taking longer to inject the Test Cyp thru a thinner needle, but drawing it up would be a real bear. I read recently on another forum where the guy used a larger size syringe / needle combo (3ml w/22 gauge needle) to draw the Test Cyp and then he pulled the plunger out of the insulin syringe and injected the Test Cyp into the tube. He then partially reinserted the plunger and then turned the insulin syringe upside down and slowly pushed the plunger in until he evacuated out all the air and got just a tiny drop of Test Cyp at the end of the needle. the whole process took about 20 seconds rather than the usual 3 - 5 minutes of drawing the thicker Test Cyp into the insulin syringe thru that skinny little needle! The injection still took longer than with using a 25 gauge 1" (like I do with my quads - BTW, I find that icing the area before injecting for about 1 minute makes them all painless with that size doing them IM). But at least he cut down quite a bit on the overall process!
Heck, I'd be satisfied to even just be able to use 1" 27-gauge needles for the IM injections. The syringe comes with a 22-gauge needle which I use to draw the Test Cyp and then I switch over to 25 gauge needles for injection. With the icing, basically always painless but also always an occasional exception. Problem is that my insurance provider (MedCo) apparently doesn't carry the 27 gauge in the 1" size.
06-03-2007, 06:34 PM
06-03-2007, 06:46 PM
Your symptoms and numbers sound pretty close to mine for the most part. Do to erect nipples, I even added in .5mg of Arimidex on injection day. I know my T is way high right now, but that is due to me increasing the injections since my Uro told me he didn't have time or knowledge to treat me. But at least I have more info for Dr John, even though I'll probably catch hell for playing Dr on myself.
I'm actually doing my injections IM, quad muscle, glute muscle etc..... I'm not doing the SubQ. I change the muscles around just to keep the sites fresh and to reduce any scaring of the muscle.
Except for my left quad though, most all my injections are with a 25G 1" needle, although lately I have obtained some smaller ones for ease. Drawing hasn't been an issue, and I'm in no hurry.
Thanks for the post man. It really helps me to know others were in my situation and are getting better. It gives me hope.
06-03-2007, 06:52 PM
06-03-2007, 10:15 PM
06-04-2007, 08:46 PM
06-04-2007, 10:48 PM
That mean you had the blood drawn somewhere and your blood was send out for the testing.
Now you are assuming that it was send to one place, and that is Quest.
I had blood drawn in hospital and it was send to three different laboratories.
Then the hospital's people combined that into one paper work.
After I got suspicious and did lots of checking I was able to get original reports from individual laboratories.
This is only one reason why I always say to have blood drawn at the Quest's blood drawing place.
Going by ranges it looks like you had you blood tested for T twice, once by LabCorp and also by Quest.
06-07-2007, 02:43 PM
During the exam I was also surprised to find my blood pressure was elevated, compared to what is normal for me. IT was 138/90 something. I don't think I have ever had it higher than the low 120's over 80. On any typical day it is in the one teens over sixty's or seventy's. Not sure what is up with that, so I'll keep an eye on it here at the house.
06-07-2007, 03:04 PM
06-07-2007, 05:08 PM
06-07-2007, 05:18 PM
06-07-2007, 07:23 PM
Easy Touch U-100 Insulin Syringe 31 Gauge 1/2cc 5/16 inch Short Needle 100/Box
Easy Touch U-100 Insulin Syringe 29 Gauge 1cc 1/2 inch Needle 100/Box Sale Price: $9.99
BD Microfine IV U-100 Insulin Syringe 28 Gauge 1cc 1/2inch Needle 100/box Price: $24.99
Syringe - 1cc 27gauge X 1/2", 200 Units / 1 unit Becton-Dickinson Our Price: $29.22
BD Pen Needle Original 29 Gauge 1/2inch 100/box Price: $25.99
BD Microfine IV U-100 Insulin Syringe 28 Gauge 1/2cc 1/2inch Needle 100/ box Price: $24.99
BD Ultrafine U-100 Insulin Syringe 30 Gauge 1/2cc 1/2Inch 100/Box Price: $23.50
06-07-2007, 08:35 PM
06-11-2007, 07:43 PM
11 June Update
Did my first injection to my new dosage as per Dr Crisler today. My T levels are way too high, so he adjusted it to once a week. Injection was just fine....I've gotten used to them now, so they don't bother me in the least.
Injections will now be on Mondays only and I get more blood work done in a month.
I must admit, it sure was nice talking with Dr. Crisler about my medical coverage. He is familiar with the military treatment facilities and Tricare coverage system. I'm really excited about how this goes. I'm so tired of putting up with this, and I am positive he can get me fixed up.
06-14-2007, 02:56 PM
No, where I am at, prescription is required... and I am locked in to a specific Health Care Plan with a specific provider. They make adjustments if doctor prescribes differently.
For example, as they have HcG being done - according to the phjamplet protocol, as an IM injection, thewould normally send HcG with syringe needle combination of a 3ml syringe with 1" 25-gauge needle... not really good for doing SubQ. But since doctor is prescribing it has SubQ, they send it along with Ultra-Fine (30 gauge) insulin syringes / needles. The main problem with them is that they simply don't carry the 27-gaue... either in the 1" 3ml syringe size for IM injections or the 1/2" 1cc size for SubQ injections.
06-15-2007, 08:18 PM
5 days after my injection and I can honestly say I don't feel that expected drop in my T levels yet.
Sexual problems still exist, but it is still early yet with the new protocol.
06-16-2007, 11:52 AM
06-18-2007, 06:52 PM
Injection time again today, and everything was just fine. Time to call Kim now and see if I can get my question asked from Dr. John.
06-18-2007, 10:09 PM
06-19-2007, 08:08 PM
06-23-2007, 05:17 PM
Just a quick update to this log.
All is well, as far as treatment goes. I've comfortably settled into the Test C injections on Monday's. Got everything I need to start my HCG injections.
At first I'm thinking, 6 inches from the navel huh? Oh joy, won't this be fun. But it was all ado about nothing. Those are even easier than the T injections. Did my first one today, second one tomorrow and then my T injection on Monday.
I'll maintain that protocol for a month, then get blood work done again. I have to make a mental note to find out what tests Dr John wants me to ask for.
06-23-2007, 05:48 PM
I have used 29ga 1/2cc 1/2"long needle.
SubQ shots 3"-4" from navel. Lots of rubbing after the shot (just in case).
No pain what so ever.
It is so easy (suction and injection), I did some flow calculations,
shorter needle, easier flow, smaller hole harder to flow^4, in summary flow with 31ga should be only 22% more difficult, for-see no problem.
I am changing to smallest available needles:
BD Ultrafine II U-100 Insulin Syringe 31 Gauge 3/10cc 5/16inch Short Needle--1/2 Unit Markings 100/b
BD Ultrafine II U-100 Insulin Syringe 31 Gauge 3/10cc 5/16inch Short Needle--1/2 Unit Markings 100/b Price: $25.95
or may be this:
Easy Touch U-100 Insulin Syringe 31 Gauge 3/10cc 5/16 inch Short Needle 100/Box
Easy Touch U-100 Insulin Syringe 31 Gauge 3/10cc 5/16 inch Short Needle 100/Box Sale Price: $13.99
I decided on E3D routine
130.7mg/week original Depo-T, 28units on syringe
and HCG Novarel, 500iu each shot
I will do T+HCG on a same day, then two days free of shots
06-25-2007, 08:22 PM
Is this your own protocol or is this prescribed by your Dr?
06-26-2007, 10:25 AM
It's a lot like I do except I shoot into my thigh doing subQ stings and burns to long.
06-26-2007, 11:56 AM
06-26-2007, 12:05 PM
Lots of rubbing after, no pain, nothing unpleasant.
I am using original Depo_Testosterone, what is that you are using?
I am still using 29ga 1/2cc 1/2" long needle
it took 2 minutes and 15 second to get it in.
My calculation show that using 31ga 3/10cc 5/16 needle should take 22% more time,
that is 2 minutes and 45 seconds.
For my next shot in Thursday I most likey will have the 31ga needles.
06-26-2007, 01:14 PM
06-26-2007, 07:50 PM
06-26-2007, 10:37 PM
06-28-2007, 06:56 PM
On a good note, I've been on Dr John's protocol for almost 2 weeks now. I'm happy to notice nocturnal erections have returned for the last 2 nights! With the weekend almost here, time to see if ED still persists.
06-28-2007, 11:17 PM
07-02-2007, 08:55 PM
07-10-2007, 09:10 PM
Just a quick update to my log.
I'm into my 3rd week of Dr John's protocol and it seems everything is starting to come together. Morning erections are starting to show up, although not everyday. Sex is improved, with erection quality noticeably better....duration is still a problem though. Still not totally successful with the wife, but I'm getting better.
07-10-2007, 10:34 PM
glad you doing better....send me a pm so we can shoot the crap
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